Former Poker Player desires Med School in the USA?

[RoboMedic]

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I graduated at 23 with a double BS in accounting/economics. Half-heartedly tried for the CPA but did not pass all 4 sections. I did not want to be CPA anyway or work in the business sector. Why did I take this subject? Because at age 18-22 I only wanted to drink, party, eat pizza and have sex. I was able to maintain 3.7 gpa and hardly put much work in at my SUNY school.

After college I did not want a 9 to 5 job. I flat out refused to work any job. For the next 3 years I did housework and babysat my nephew for an allowance, and I used that money to play poker at several northeast casinos (Foxwoods, Borgata, Mohegan Sun) where I grinded $500 into a $40,000 bankroll. That was my first year and I decided to become a pro poker traveling tournament player. However I lost about $15,000 between poker and gambling, and then flushed the rest on ******/drugs.

Finally at age 27 (still living at home with folks) I hit rock bottom and decided I wanted to go back to college and try to become a Doctor. I had almost died many times over the years either from OD or just getting black out drunk.

So I made my way back to school and now I have 3.5 overall GPA (counting my 3.7 from traditional undergrad) and 3.3 science GPA having taken almost all the prerequisites (still need 2 physics which I'm taking this summer) 2 bios, 4 chem, extras like A and P, three semesters calc, 1 semester algorithmic computer science. I have like 40 hours of volunteer work in hospital so not much there. I have zero, zilch, zip, nada paid work experience. I have never paid taxes for anything but poker winnings.

At age 28 if you look up my profile on a government computer it will have 6 years of undergrad work in college and no paid work experience in anything but poker. I've also never been active in anything extracurricular and I am not social at all unless it involves alcohol/bars. What was my biggest motivation for going to Med School? To prove people wrong (like my extended family), to show to world how smart/dedicated I can be. I have very few to zero other interests besides poker, which I had to quit due to addiction. I have thoroughly enjoyed by science courses more so than anything else I've ever done. So I figure I should be going to med school (if I can get in) because I have nothing else better to do with myself.

TLDR: Failed poker player, age 28, 180 undergrad credits, 3.5 overall GPA, 3.3 science GPA (may drop slightly due to 2 remaining physics courses). Planning on taking MCAT and trying for Med School by Fall of 2017. Do I have any shot at USA Med Schools? Should I go for outside the USA? Is PA school a better option for someone like me? Do I have any shot to pass an interview with my background.

 

[futuremdforme]

Your motivation sucks, and your falling GPA is a huge red flag. You're not even optimistic about bringing it up with physics this summer! If you were really serious, you'd be working your ass off to get an A. And if you're not social, why do you want to do a career where you work on a team, to help people?

 

[RoboMedic]

Your motivation sucks, and your falling GPA is a huge red flag. You're not even optimistic about bringing it up with physics this summer! If you were really serious, you'd be working your ass off to get an A. And if you're not social, why do you want to do a career where you work on a team, to help people?

I saved Physics for last because at my school approx. 6/240 students get A's in that course (3 from each section). I'm just being realistic that I'd be happy with B/B- in those courses and get out of dodge with a 3.2 science GPA. It's about a solid B+ I figure.

I am mostly excited about the prospect of med school because I would enjoy the intellectual challenge and I like competition. And I really don't have anything better to do with my life. I don't want a job in the field I previously studied (accounting). I can see enjoyment from certain field within the medical profession that are less social.

 

[H2Oman]

Happy with a B/B- in a weed out class where only 1 in 40 gets the A? You like competition and you like sciences courses more than anything else but your sGPA is 3.3? Med school because you have nothing else better to do with yourself? Funny guy.

Honestly, you're kind of a train wreck. You had to quit being a poker player because of addiction and your motivation is to prove to the world you're smart? You are not who I want as my physician.

Get into counseling, stay out of bars and off alcohol, get your grades up and work on creating deeply emotionally connected relationships with other people. At that point it might become more apparent what it is you want to do.

 

[RoboMedic]

Happy with a B/B- in a weed out class where only 1 in 40 gets the A? You like competition and you like sciences courses more than anything else but your sGPA is 3.3? Med school because you have nothing else better to do with yourself? Funny guy.

Honestly, you're kind of a train wreck. You had to quit being a poker player because of addiction and your motivation is to prove to the world you're smart? You are not who I want as my physician.

Get into counseling, stay out of bars and off alcohol, get your grades up and work on creating deeply emotionally connected relationships with other people. At that point it might become more apparent what it is you want to do.

Well maybe it's more like I want to simultaneously prove to myself and my doubters that I can be smart and successful, mostly myself. I admit to being a bit of a train wreck. And I'm learning to be more social, as I do talk to all my lab partners and some of my classmates about the coursework. I never did that in my accounting courses. In traditional undergrad I kept a small pack of 5 friends (poker buddies) and we went out drinking together and tried to get laid. This time for my science courses I've always made some study group friends out of necessity, and they seem like alright people. I am somewhat intimidated by the very intelligent teenagers. Maybe embarrassed is more like it. To watch some 19 year old girl school me at organic chem was embarrassing for me.

Anyways, can someone please give me advice how to improve a Med School application? Where should I apply? What should I say in an interview? Should I be completely honest in the interview or maybe (rather than lie) withhold some aspects of my past??

I need to ask here because my advisor has been terrible, subliminally discouraging me from going to Med School by claiming I'd be better suited for PA. That doesn't make much sense to me considering most PA programs I look at want serious hours of HCE. So I don't trust my advisor anymore.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Being a physician is a calling, not a pissing contest.

 

[sp4k]

I was going to write a long and deliberate post, but let me just say this... you don't sound like you know what you're getting yourself into. If you want to show the world that you're not worthless, get your addiction under control and start small. Get a regular job, volunteer, show that you're a constructive member of the society. There's no easy or fast way around it.

 

[RoboMedic]

I was going to write a long and deliberate post, but let me just say this... you don't sound like you know what you're getting yourself into. If you want to show the world that you're not worthless, get your addiction under control and start small. Get a regular job, volunteer, show that you're a constructive member of the society. There's no easy or fast way around it.

well feel like I have a pretty good idea of the workload. I had to take Orgo II, Calc 3, A and P II, and CSci course in this past semester, 3 labs, and pulled off a 3.4 gpa for the semester which I considered good enough, a solid mix of A- and B+.

As far as "showing the world" I misspoke, really just meant prove to myself that I can do it. I'm a very introverted and internally focused person so prove to the world means to myself. Since losing poker, science has been the first and only spark of energy back into my life. I don't want romantic relationships or extremely close friendships where you talk on the phone, that's not my style. I can tell you that I'm pretty dead set on wanting to get into a medical professional school, whether that's MD route, or even PA as a possible alternative. I think I've worked hard to obtain a decent GPA and I don't want that hard work to be discarded in vain. I'm going to have to get a job sometime, so might as well go for something interesting, challenging, pays well, in demand.

Emotionally I may be considered a "train wreck" to others (I even consider myself a "social" train wreck by modern standards) but really I like myself this way. At least I feel comfortable this way and don't desire to change much of who I am at this point. I'm just a guy with a faulty past who is trying to course correct and establishing big goals for myself. I don't care that med school is hard to get into, what other social obstacles exist, etc. If I think I might enjoy a career in the field that's what I am going to continue to pursue. I've never lost the financial support (or emotional support) of my parents so I have opportunities others might not have and I intend to take full advantage.

 

[sp4k]

well feel like I have a pretty good idea of the workload. I had to take Orgo II, Calc 3, A and P II, and CSci course in this past semester, 3 labs, and pulled off a 3.4 gpa for the semester which I considered good enough, a solid mix of A- and B+.

As far as "showing the world" I misspoke, really just meant prove to myself that I can do it. I'm a very introverted and internally focused person so prove to the world means to myself. Since losing poker, science has been the first and only spark of energy back into my life. I don't want romantic relationships or extremely close friendships where you talk on the phone, that's not my style. I can tell you that I'm pretty dead set on wanting to get into a medical professional school, whether that's MD route, or even PA as a possible alternative. I think I've worked hard to obtain a decent GPA and I don't want that hard work to be discarded in vain. I'm going to have to get a job sometime, so might as well go for something interesting, challenging, pays well, in demand.

Emotionally I may be considered a "train wreck" to others (I even consider myself a "social" train wreck by modern standards) but really I like myself this way. At least I feel comfortable this way and don't desire to change much of who I am at this point. I'm just a guy with a faulty past who is trying to course correct and establishing big goals for myself. I don't care that med school is hard to get into, what other social obstacles exist, etc. If I think I might enjoy a career in the field that's what I am going to continue to pursue. I've never lost the financial support (or emotional support) of my parents so I have opportunities others might not have and I intend to take full advantage.

I understand, and I think that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. That being said, adcoms will want to see some type of stability in your life and real passion for the field. You'll have to show it.

If you look at the big picture, getting into medical school is the easy part. You have to think long term, you have to present that you're capable of dealing with large amounts of stress, and especially in your case given your history, that you are capable of going through w/o falling back to you addictions.

 

[brainnurse]

I graduated at 23 with a double BS in accounting/economics. Half-heartedly tried for the CPA but did not pass all 4 sections. I did not want to be CPA anyway or work in the business sector. Why did I take this subject? Because at age 18-22 I only wanted to drink, party, eat pizza and have sex. I was able to maintain 3.7 gpa and hardly put much work in at my SUNY school.

After college I did not want a 9 to 5 job. I flat out refused to work any job. For the next 3 years I did housework and babysat my nephew for an allowance, and I used that money to play poker at several northeast casinos (Foxwoods, Borgata, Mohegan Sun) where I grinded $500 into a $40,000 bankroll. That was my first year and I decided to become a pro poker traveling tournament player. However I lost about $15,000 between poker and gambling, and then flushed the rest on ******/drugs.

Finally at age 27 (still living at home with folks) I hit rock bottom and decided I wanted to go back to college and try to become a Doctor. I had almost died many times over the years either from OD or just getting black out drunk.

So I made my way back to school and now I have 3.5 overall GPA (counting my 3.7 from traditional undergrad) and 3.3 science GPA having taken almost all the prerequisites (still need 2 physics which I'm taking this summer) 2 bios, 4 chem, extras like A and P, three semesters calc, 1 semester algorithmic computer science. I have like 40 hours of volunteer work in hospital so not much there. I have zero, zilch, zip, nada paid work experience. I have never paid taxes for anything but poker winnings.

At age 28 if you look up my profile on a government computer it will have 6 years of undergrad work in college and no paid work experience in anything but poker. I've also never been active in anything extracurricular and I am not social at all unless it involves alcohol/bars. What was my biggest motivation for going to Med School? To prove people wrong (like my extended family), to show to world how smart/dedicated I can be. I have very few to zero other interests besides poker, which I had to quit due to addiction. I have thoroughly enjoyed by science courses more so than anything else I've ever done. So I figure I should be going to med school (if I can get in) because I have nothing else better to do with myself.

TLDR: Failed poker player, age 28, 180 undergrad credits, 3.5 overall GPA, 3.3 science GPA (may drop slightly due to 2 remaining physics courses). Planning on taking MCAT and trying for Med School by Fall of 2017. Do I have any shot at USA Med Schools? Should I go for outside the USA? Is PA school a better option for someone like me? Do I have any shot to pass an interview with my background.

First of all, congratulations on fighting and, from your story, overcoming your addiction. That is not an easy feat by any means and you should be proud of that on-going victory. One of the bigger questions that will determine your path is whether or not you have a disciplinary actions from academic institution or criminal activity in your record. Those, I believe, greatly limit your viability as a medical school candidate. You have a decent GPA and a few more years ahead of you, so you can fill at least some of the gaps in your CV. I see no reason why you shouldn't take the MCAT once you're done with all of your requirements.

The backlash you received here probably stems from the fact that your tone implied that you were only doing medicine because you can. This can come off offensive to people who are very passionate about healthcare and who are doing their hardest to become physicians. If you keep to this path, I would suggest working on a way to express your thoughts and tell your story without offending your audience with nonchalance. That being said, while passion and social skills play a significant role in medicine, they are not the end-all-be-all that make physicians or any type of healthcare worker. Tenacity, self-awareness, and the ability to recover from severe challenges, including self-inflected ones like substance abuse or addiction, is an important quality in most professions. If you eventually become a medical school candidate, your story could make one hell of a personal statement.

All that being said, I do want to point out that healthcare places us in a very unique situation that can very well exacerbate cravings and push one to relapse. We have both the stressors and the access to highly addictive substances. Beyond the fact that your history makes you a very high risk candidate in the eyes of AdComs, please think carefully about your decision to enter healthcare, either as a physician or as a PA, because it will place you in countless situations that could be just as triggering as gambling. Your health and recovery is far, far more important than any profession. Good luck.

 

[Gurby]

As a former poker player who almost moved to Thailand when the roof caved in on US iPoker in 2011.... I hope you can pull it off OP. One Time!

 

[deleted480308]

Being a physician is a calling, not a pissing contest.

it's a job...the only thing that makes us special is the scarcity of our skills/knowledge

 

[Law2Doc]

it's a job...the only thing that makes us special is the scarcity of our skills/knowledge

Um no. You will not succeed in medicine if your sole motivation is to prove others wrong. It's too many hours, too emotionally intense. If you don't truly enjoy the job function or at least substantial components of it, it's going to suck big time. If I wasn't excited about doing what I am doing and if my sole motivation was to be able to say -- see I can do this -- I would have quit on the first bad night. I know a ton of people who could pass the tests but would make horrible doctors and would never stick through it because they'd hate it. I suspect OP has more in common with them. They all have "jobs" not professional careers -- there's a world of difference.

 

[brainnurse]

Um no. You will not succeed in medicine if your sole motivation is to prove others wrong. It's too many hours, too emotionally intense. If you don't truly enjoy the job function or at least substantial components of it, it's going to suck big time. If I wasn't excited about doing what I am doing and if my sole motivation was to be able to say -- see I can do this -- I would have quit on the first bad night. I know a ton of people who could pass the tests but would make horrible doctors and would never stick through it because they'd hate it. I suspect OP has more in common with them. They all have "jobs" not professional careers -- there's a world of difference.

And for every one of you who says passion is required, I can name twenty other attendings who say it's just a job like any other job that pays the bills. Some days you like, some days you hate, most you're indifferent about.

 

[Gurby]

And for every one of you who says passion is required, I can name twenty other attendings who say it's just a job like any other job that pays the bills. Some days you like, some days you hate, most you're indifferent about.

The thing is medicine eats up your life to a much greater extent than most jobs. If your goal is to have work/life balance, live comfortably and retire sometime in your 50's, there are much easier ways to get there. I imagine that if you don't derive a lot of satisfaction from being a doctor, you will really resent pouring so much of your time and energy into it. Time is precious and finite - you can't get it back once it's gone.

Working 60+ hours per week is a good way to fast forward your life - you fall into a routine, keep your nose to the grindstone, and then wake up at some point in the future wondering what happened to the past year?

 

[DrMikeP]

OP, besides getting some counseling (others have stated that enough), you need a better sgpa. MD is likely out unless you get an incredibly high MCAT, possible but not probable. DO is easier with retakes. Aim for a 3.45 c s GPA with retakes and a 504+ MCAT. See the aacomas mcib for the avg . Get it and with shadowing and good ecs and you will have a good shot. Apply with a poor GPA and you highly risk being a reapplicant and you've then dug your hole deeper.

Good luck

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[jl lin]

I'm old-fashioned. I have seen a huge difference in general attitudes compared with, say, 20 some years ago. Based on experience and also my own beliefs, I have to say I agree with Law2Doc . Different people have different views on this. I won't argue it, but like a partner for life, do you want to be with someone that feels like it's just something they have to do, b/c it is something they signed up to do? I mean dealing w/ stuff when you don't want to is a part of all of life, but it (marriage or medicine) shouldn't be a mere "clock-in/clock-out" kind of thing. I mean if your heart isn't in it, it's going to show at some point.

To OP: There is a lot on here about comeback stories and such. It's a lot of hoops and the hoops continue--for the life of your career in medicine. In fact, today there are so many necessary, as well as more and more superfluous hoops, it's kind of crazy.

Someone posted on dropping out of med school here on nontrads and gave an update of how happy he is that he did it. Read his post.

Read around on SDN. There's a lot that may help you. That's one of the main reasons SDN is here; so do some searches. Look for information and posts from folks like Dr.Midlife.

To me, I feel like getting a lot of good, clinical experience will help give you insight into it too. People don't do this enough, and then they are miserable after going through the whole process, having lost a lot of time and money in the process. That would be one thing, but these folks IMO may bring the profession down, b/c they lack the care, interest, passion, and tolerance to work in it.

Good luck.

 

[RoboMedic]

OP, besides getting some counseling (others have stated that enough), you need a better sgpa. MD is likely out unless you get an incredibly high MCAT, possible but not probable. DO is easier with retakes. Aim for a 3.45 c s GPA with retakes and a 504+ MCAT. See the aacomas mcib for the avg . Get it and with shadowing and good ecs and you will have a good shot. Apply with a poor GPA and you highly risk being a reapplicant and you've then dug your hole deeper.

Good luck

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

thanks for the specific stats and the suggestion. I appreciate all of the feedback I've been getting here.


The consensus seems to be:

- get counseling (agree I need this...I've also recently taken up yoga and more intense exercise)
- improve my undergrad stats slightly and take a shot at Med Schools but don't get hopes up. Going DO route the more realistic option
- get some more direct shadowing experience to be certain this is my path in life

The fact that I did not pass the CPA (and have never been exceptional at standardized exams) has me in doubt that I can pull the high MCAT score my application would need to balance the relatively low and borderline 3.3 s-GPA. Perhaps DO route (or maybe PA if I can accumulate HCE over the next year??) is the more realistic option for Fall 2017?

What I want people to understand is how badly my confidence/happiness was shattered when I failed at poker. The only thing that I loved and put serious work into, but instead of improving to higher stakes, I fell backwards until I lost everything. When you play a poker tournament there is something known as "min-cashing" where the top 10-15 percent of the field are awarded a profit (usually double your buy in) for their relatively high placement. In these undergrad med classes I was never at the top of the class but always "cashing" with B+ or A- into that top 10-15 percent of the field. To see all of these students getting weeded out and I kept "cashing" it drove up my confidence and perhaps that is what gave me that spark of energy back into my life. It felt like I was back in the game and finally winning again.

Especially when I got an A- in Orgo and the smart girl from Bio (she got the only A+ in the weed out bio course when I took with her but she was just coming off AP Bio in high school) only got B+ it felt like validation. Like hey I can be smart/dedicated enough to succeed at academics (at least on undergrad level) and don't have to be a degenerate anymore. My Chem. professor even told me I was smart in an email. I've never heard that before about myself in my life from anyone. Except when someone had called me a smart ass 🙂

But will Med School crush my soul? Will it tell me I'm a ******* who can barely pass? Will I fail when I compete with the elite?

I don't know what I'm truly capable of yet but think I might be able to scrape by. And while that may seem abhorrent to the type A personalities who want to become surgeons (I see these types, they are the ones pulling A/A- in every course), for me scraping by med school might just be the peak of my ability in life. How many people can really say that have squeezed every ounce of energy and intelligence out of their cells. I would feel satisfied to get by, just as I've been satisfied to get by undergrad with my 3.3 s-gpa which I'm fairly proud of. I did my best. I did not eat the books 24/7 or anything, but I studied hard and did my best.

 

[jl lin]

No, not just shadowing. As Dr. Midlife says, work in some healthcare capacity where you are close enough to smell, hear, see the patients. Something like an ED tech or a tech on the medical-surgical floors or units.

You'll mostly just stand there during shadowing, and it's not the same in an office or certain clinics compared with other clinics and the in-hospital craziness. Also volunteer to work in a homeless shelter or hospice. But the best is an in-hospital gig, b/c you can see so much more and if it's more of a good fit for you.

 

[DrMikeP]

I'd recommend a job as a er scribe. Invaluable.

Med school students who go in with a just get by attitude often fail. So don't go in with that! Fix IT. It has to be I can do and will do this and rock it! You will be scared and overwhelmed enough just getting there.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[68PGunner]

All I'm getting from your post is your insecurity. You're not ready for the big league.

What I want people to understand is how badly my confidence/happiness was shattered when I failed at poker. The only thing that I loved and put serious work into, but instead of improving to higher stakes, I fell backwards until I lost everything. When you play a poker tournament there is something known as "min-cashing" where the top 10-15 percent of the field are awarded a profit (usually double your buy in) for their relatively high placement. In these undergrad med classes I was never at the top of the class but always "cashing" with B+ or A- into that top 10-15 percent of the field. To see all of these students getting weeded out and I kept "cashing" it drove up my confidence and perhaps that is what gave me that spark of energy back into my life. It felt like I was back in the game and finally winning again.

Medicine is not a poker game. Lastly, why are you getting worked up about losing $40K? You make it sound like it's the end of the world. Getting B+ or A- is a no go. You should aim for A and maybe settle for A-.

 

[RoboMedic]

All I'm getting from your post is your insecurity. You're not ready for the big league.



Medicine is not a poker game. Lastly, why are you getting worked up about losing $40K? You make it sound like it's the end of the world. Getting B+ or A- is a no go. You should aim for A and maybe settle for A-.

If you're getting insecurity from my post it's because I am insecure about my ability. I am uncertain that "I've got this" like many of my straight A undergrad peers. I reckon I would be on the borderline of acceptance as a traditional undergrad with 3.3 s-GPA and decent MCAT score. What does that mean for someone with those stats and my background? I think it means I better kill the MCAT or start investigating of other avenues/options within the medical field.

The 40K in poker meant so much to me. Why? Because the way the profession works (for aspiring tourney pros) is that you will never make it on your own, you need to find backers/investors with deep pockets. 40K earnings was not enough for investors to take seriously, it takes at least 200K in tournament earnings to get some legitimate backers. You will look at that and say to me "well then why are you disappointed you weren't even close to 200K?" The money in these events are heavily weighted to the final table, and within the final table heavily weighted to top 3-4 spots. You never know when your "big break" is coming. I've competed deep (top 25/1000 players) into tourneys where 1st prize paid in excess of $400,000. One big hit like that and I've got a legit poker career with investors. Then as long as I can turn them a profit, I've got a real poker career on my hands. Winning 40K (profit) the first year was a great start that had me giddy, but the slow regression and realization my break wasn't coming, that was soul crushing. When you pour everything into one life objective and fail, I don't think there's an emptier feeling.

At least this time if I expend all of my time/energy on one task (med school) the rewards are not left up to chance. I have full control over my results. Do I have what it takes to succeed in the big leagues amongst some elite talents? I reckon they will not accept me into med school if they are unsure I can handle the curriculum. I reckon that as of right now my chances of Med school are dependent on the MCAT, and that my chances of getting a top score are slim. I think the best advice I received here all came from Dr. Mike P. Thank you so much sir!!
I think both becoming an ER scribe for HCE, and also a refocusing on DO is the path for me to take. It's probably my best (and perhaps only) option for success.

 

[Law2Doc]

Medicine isn't about being able to say "I've got this". Much of the time you do your best but can't stop the ultimate outcome. you have to like it for the job, not that it's a nice pat on the back. I agree you need to get into a hospital and see what doctors do all day, because I have a feeling you'll find the postcard doesn't match the trip.

As for standardized tests, the MCAT is just the first of many on this path and frankly IMHO not even the hardest. You'll do Steps and shelfs and inservice tests and board exams on this road. So you has better get comfortable at these.

 

[jl lin]

Medicine isn't about being able to say "I've got this". Much of the time you do your best but can't stop the ultimate outcome. you have to like it for the job, not that it's a nice pat on the back. I agree you need to get into a hospital and see what doctors do all day, because I have a feeling you'll find the postcard doesn't match the trip.

As for standardized tests, the MCAT is just the first of many on this path and frankly IMHO not even the hardest. You'll do Steps and shelfs and inservice tests and board exams on this road. So you has better get comfortable at these.

^ That's golden. I am so stealing this. 🙂

 

[DrBowtie]

OP,

To put it in terms you'll understand. The Step 1 exam is basically HU4LifeRollz.

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

I don't know much about poker/gambling, but I heard there is a thrilling game being played on the Caribbean islands. Perhaps you can take your talents down there..

 

[futuremdforme]

well feel like I have a pretty good idea of the workload. I had to take Orgo II, Calc 3, A and P II, and CSci course in this past semester, 3 labs, and pulled off a 3.4 gpa for the semester which I considered good enough, a solid mix of A- and B+.

Except the rest of us, who were successful, had workloads like that and got A's, not A' and B+'s. You have to realize that the standards are higher than what you think they are, and decide what you want to do about that.

 

[DrMikeP]

You haven't moved past the poker career yet. Until you do you won't find happiness and peace elsewhere.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Goro]

I can't sugar coat this; this is a really lousy reason for wanting to be a doctor.

Wanna prove something to yourself? Become a Navy SEAL, or join the Marines.

Well maybe it's more like I want to simultaneously prove to myself and my doubters that I can be smart and successful, mostly myself. I admit to being a bit of a train wreck.

 

[RoboMedic]

You haven't moved past the poker career yet. Until you do you won't find happiness and peace elsewhere.

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I will never be able to completely move past it. Poker gave me my first real adrenaline rush and hope (albeit brief) that I can have a great life. It was sort of my first "love" that you never get over. It did more than give me a reason to want to get out of bed in the morning, it made me jump out of bed and run to my "job." The thought of a boring 9 to 5 after that was devastating enough, but to have to work at a job I don't even like for possibly the next 40 years!! No way Jose. At least with medicine there are fields within the profession that intrigue me (anesthesiology, emergency med, pathology, pulmonology) and might give me a reason to get up in the morning. I may not be jumping out of bed and running to work, but at least I will want to get up.

As far as the poster who suggests Marines or Navy Seals, well I just don't think I'm cut out for that line of work. Despite the fact I'm sort of anti-social, I don't want to ever have to kill people. I'm not a violent type of person. The adrenaline rushes I want are "safe" thrills. I wouldn't even want to sky dive or bungee jump. Too dangerous.

 

[jl lin]

I will never be able to completely move past it. Poker gave me my first real adrenaline rush and hope (albeit brief) that I can have a great life. It was sort of my first "love" that you never get over. It did more than give me a reason to want to get out of bed in the morning, it made me jump out of bed and run to my "job." The thought of a boring 9 to 5 after that was devastating enough, but to have to work at a job I don't even like for possibly the next 40 years!! No way Jose. At least with medicine there are fields within the profession that intrigue me (anesthesiology, emergency med, pathology, pulmonology) and might give me a reason to get up in the morning. I may not be jumping out of bed and running to work, but at least I will want to get up.

As far as the poster who suggests Marines or Navy Seals, well I just don't think I'm cut out for that line of work. Despite the fact I'm sort of anti-social, I don't want to ever have to kill people. I'm not a violent type of person. The adrenaline rushes I want are "safe" thrills. I wouldn't even want to sky dive or bungee jump. Too dangerous.

Call me crazy, but anti-social and medicine don't mix.

Also, there are a lot of "unsafe thrills" in medicine that can leave you feeling chagrin and just plain burned out. It's peoples' lives we are messing with, and that should reasonably scare people enough to take accountability very seriously.

Maybe it's just me, but probably all those I have worked with that had military training functioned exceedingly well in HC and medicine, b/c they had learned those very hard disciplines.

 

[RoboMedic]

Call me crazy, but anti-social and medicine don't mix.

Also, there are a lot of "unsafe thrills" in medicine that can leave you feeling chagrin and just plain burned out. It's peoples' lives we are messing with, and that should reasonably scare people enough to take accountability very seriously.

Maybe it's just me, but probably all those I have worked with that had military training functioned exceedingly well in HC and medicine, b/c they had learned those very hard disciplines.

anti-social has such a negative connotation, so lets just call it highly introverted. I cannot seem to keep friends long term and have never had a GF. They probably just find me boring. I'm not sad about my isolation, maybe I was at one point but I'm very comfortable with myself now.

 

[ZezKaiEll]

I am merely a med student so I don't have much room to judge your attitude/motivation for pursuing the career. Listen to the faculty/physicians on this forum though, they are more experienced on this type of stuff. What I can offer you is general pre-med advice..

You need to get more involvement in both the medical and service world. Shadow physicians but also get involved in service volunteering (nursing home/hospice/volunteer organizations) to find out how you really feel about it. You need more than exposure here, you need to demonstrate commitment over the long term. Long after the competition of med school/applications is done, this is what you may be left with so make sure you get some fulfillment from it. Besides this, the best advice I can give you is to really research the heck out of this forum. Hit the search function like a madman and read whatever you can find out about what makes a strong pre-med applicant, what med school is like, how the process works. There is simply too much stuff for all this to be in one place, but the stickys in the pre-allo forum are a great place to start. Make sure to explore all options (DO and the advantage of grade replacement, why the Caribbean is generally to be avoided etc.). Look into related careers. You've mentioned PA, but also consider what a possible backup might be (podiatry?). Always verify advice you are unsure about. Being informed is the most underrated aspect of pre-med IMO. You're off to a good start by getting involved in this forum.

PS: You really need to find out how forthcoming you should be about your background in the application process. I don't know the answer, but make sure you do. I think this may be a situation where it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.

PPS: Make sure you are truly past your poker addiction days. Will having access to large student loan disbursements be too much of a temptation? What about when whatever competitive academic drive you have channeled your problem gambling into runs out? Will you return to old habits? What about when you get your first physician salary? Really be honest with yourself here. You might think you have already seen rock bottom, but flushing a career that you have spent a decade plus working towards in an epic relapse would be much, much worse.

 

[H2Oman]

At least this time if I expend all of my time/energy on one task (med school) the rewards are not left up to chance. I have full control over my results. Do I have what it takes to succeed in the big leagues amongst some elite talents? I reckon they will not accept me into med school if they are unsure I can handle the curriculum. I reckon that as of right now my chances of Med school are dependent on the MCAT, and that my chances of getting a top score are slim. I think the best advice I received here all came from Dr. Mike P. Thank you so much sir!!
I think both becoming an ER scribe for HCE, and also a refocusing on DO is the path for me to take. It's probably my best (and perhaps only) option for success.

You do? I would have thought adcoms, professors, residency match, preceptors, etc would have some control over your results. Sure, everything is a function of effort in but you're just making excuses if your "failure" as a poker player was because things were out of your control.
You didn't fail at poker, you gave up. Oh no, you lost $40k. So what? No one died. You didn't mortgage/sell everything you have. Save up some money and get back to the table.
Or stop whining, get help for your problems, and
The thread reeks of a lame excuse for the plot line to Rounders.

You don't have what it takes to succeed "in the big leagues;" you're not even competing at the top of the minors.

No, right now you're not getting into medical school even with a very high MCAT. Poor grades; no volunteer experience; no shadow experience or any ability to prove that you know what it's like working in the field; devastating and uncorrected/untreated character flaws.

 

[68PGunner]

...

 

[RoboMedic]

You do? I would have thought adcoms, professors, residency match, preceptors, etc would have some control over your results. Sure, everything is a function of effort in but you're just making excuses if your "failure" as a poker player was because things were out of your control.
You didn't fail at poker, you gave up. Oh no, you lost $40k. So what? No one died. You didn't mortgage/sell everything you have. Save up some money and get back to the table.
Or stop whining, get help for your problems, and
The thread reeks of a lame excuse for the plot line to Rounders.

You don't have what it takes to succeed "in the big leagues;" you're not even competing at the top of the minors.

No, right now you're not getting into medical school even with a very high MCAT. Poor grades; no volunteer experience; no shadow experience or any ability to prove that you know what it's like working in the field; devastating and uncorrected/untreated character flaws.

Well I'm probably not going to get a very high MCAT anyway. I'll be happy with 28-29 range. I can get some good HCE (ER scribe seems like a good fit. I'd also like to do some EMT work) and shadowing done over the course of the next year or two. I initially wanted to apply for Fall 2017 but I can wait until Fall 2018 or 2019 to start, I'm not in any hurry. The 3.3 s-gpa may seem low, but I have never retaken a course so I think that should count for something. And my marks in Orgo were A- and A. In that one subsection of chemistry I was at near the very top of the class. So I do think I can be marginally competitive with the elite in some specific areas.

Maybe I can be sort of a big league specialist. you know, like the pinch runner or the bat boy. On the very outer fringes but technically still in the league 🙂

I reckon I will also be applying to the DO programs and some PA schools as well over the next few years. Perhaps that will be the more realistic pathway to the doctorate/masters in a respectable med field. There has to be a bottom tier of schools that will take a shot on me. If not then unfortunately I'll just have to consider programs outside the USA.

Again, thanks for the feedback. This is a smart bunch so I'm happy to take the advice and really soak up the good ideas. I'll take all of this info. with me to my Monday meeting with an advisor.

 

[Gurby]

The Step 1 exam is basically HU4LifeRollz.

A degen after my own heart

 

[xffan624]

I reckon I will also be applying to the DO programs and some PA schools

If 28 MCAT and 3.5 GPA is what you will presenting schools with, then you should pretty much stick to DO schools.

Regardless, OP with your attitude, I don't see much success for admission to medical school. You have minimal EC's (you didn't mention any in your original post), minimal shadowing, and a sketchy background that will be a red flag for some. Add to that borderline stats with a downward trend and it's not gonna happen.

 

[MrChance2]

there is a good chance you won't get in. If you do get in you won't fit in.

I'm not saying you can't do this. With enough effort you probably could. It's just not the right career for you. You would get more of the type of satisfaction you are looking for easier elsewhere.

 

[RoboMedic]

If 28 MCAT and 3.5 GPA is what you will presenting schools with, then you should pretty much stick to DO schools.

Regardless, OP with your attitude, I don't see much success for admission to medical school. You have minimal EC's (you didn't mention any in your original post), minimal shadowing, and a sketchy background that will be a red flag for some. Add to that borderline stats with a downward trend and it's not gonna happen.

Yes I think that my current application would be tossed in 2 seconds. However, my plan is to get some great HCE and shadowing done over the next 1-2 years. I've taken almost all my prereqs (2 physics courses left) and expect to finish with my current 3.3 s-gpa, 3.5 overall gpa. I might retake some courses but I never got any C's. My lowest score was B- inorganic chem 2. I suppose I can retake that one. Everything else was pretty much straight B/B+ mix across the board. My A+ in Orgo was my only A+ in any science course.

I've been steady and consistent B/B+ student across the board. It might look bad that I pulled these "low" scores despite zero other responsibilities. And then take my background into account, the lack of in depth knowledge about the profession or what med school really entails on a daily basis, the fact I've never shown in my life that I can handle stress well, and these are red flags. But I have so much room for improvement and maybe decision makers will be impressed that I've been consistent across the board? There has been nothing erratic whatsoever about my academic record. I was straight A/A- in other classes, straight B/B+ in science classes. I have plans for getting some in depth med experience at a steady pace over the next 1-2 years, and have plenty of time to collect massive shadowing experience over a wide range of fields.

If 28 MCAT and 3.5 gpa are not good enough for even a low tier med school then I won't waste my time. I will focus solely on finding a DO program that will take me. Or at least PA school. I can live with the PA route if other options have been exhausted and proved futile.

But what will improve my chances for DO and/or PA?? How should I go about explaining my background in a way that highlights my strengths? What do these med schools or PA school want to hear??

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes I think that my current application would be tossed in 2 seconds. However, my plan is to get some great HCE and shadowing done over the next 1-2 years. I've taken almost all my prereqs (2 physics courses left) and expect to finish with my current 3.3 s-gpa, 3.5 overall gpa. I might retake some courses but I never got any C's. My lowest score was B- inorganic chem 2. I suppose I can retake that one. Everything else was pretty much straight B/B+ mix across the board. My A+ in Orgo was my only A+ in any science course.

I've been steady and consistent B/B+ student across the board. It might look bad that I pulled these "low" scores despite zero other responsibilities. And then take my background into account, the lack of in depth knowledge about the profession or what med school really entails on a daily basis, the fact I've never shown in my life that I can handle stress well, and these are red flags. But I have so much room for improvement and maybe decision makers will be impressed that I've been consistent across the board? There has been nothing erratic whatsoever about my academic record. I was straight A/A- in other classes, straight B/B+ in science classes. I have plans for getting some in depth med experience at a steady pace over the next 1-2 years, and have plenty of time to collect massive shadowing experience over a wide range of fields.

If 28 MCAT and 3.5 gpa are not good enough for even a low tier med school then I won't waste my time. I will focus solely on finding a DO program that will take me. Or at least PA school. I can live with the PA route if other options have been exhausted and proved futile.

But what will improve my chances for DO and/or PA?? How should I go about explaining my background in a way that highlights my strengths? What do these med schools or PA school want to hear??

You probably will have a harder time getting into PA school. They are very competitive. A few of my friends are PAs, and they shared their stats, HCE, etc with me when I asked out of interest (would be dumb not to explore that option as a 32-yo vet with two kids). Most schools I think require lots of HCE, but almost everyone accepted has far more than the minimum required. My few thousand hours as an OR tech was about average.

 

[pinkly]

I wouldn't come here looking for validation, because as you can see no one is going to pat you on the back. No one here has a perfect answer for you, no one can be an MD visionary and give you a yes or no answer to if, when and how you can accomplish your said goals. It all comes down to how much work and dedication you're going to invest, and I think you can do it. I think anyone can do it; it's a difficult profession but a profession nonetheless. I wouldn't let others' disapproval in your life decisions dictate your time (and an absolute **** ton of money) spent learning med, or any trade for that matter. But ya my dude, you are totally in control of making this happen. More power to you.

 

[RoboMedic]

You probably will have a harder time getting into PA school. They are very competitive. A few of my friends are PAs, and they shared their stats, HCE, etc with me when I asked out of interest (would be dumb not to explore that option as a 32-yo vet with two kids). Most schools I think require lots of HCE, but almost everyone accepted has far more than the minimum required. My few thousand hours as an OR tech was about average.

you might be right because my bio lab professor (22 year old female) was a 3.9 gpa in neuroscience and had 2 years of HCE. She needed to be exceptional to be taken at such a young age. I think the average age is 26-27 starting that masters program because the requirements are intense and entrance so competitive. I suppose the reason is due to there being a smaller amount of PA schools out there and only 100+ taken into each program. She told me they don't have any programs outside USA.

So then this means I have one option and one option only and that's DO. I reckon I will need to get tons of HCE, volunteer work and shadowing done over the next 2 years. I will have to retake a few courses turning B's into A's to upgrade the sGPA to 3.5 and cGPA to 3.6. Get at least 29 on MCAT. I'll have to come up with decent explanation about my past and a better more selfless attitude??
It sounds like this is the meat and potatoes of the advice I'm getting here. Forget MD or PA they are out of my range. Because DO offers retakes I have the chance to get that sgpa to 3.5 threshold, a solid/decent MCAT, and take 1-2 years to get plenty of HCE.

If anyone has any other tips for getting through an interview or anything else, well I will really appreciate that advice. I've always been something of a contrarian so all of the barriers to entry only make me want to get in more. Looks like this is going to be a very tough road to entrance so I will have to step up my game in all areas. Right now I have nothing but borderline stats and weaknesses; they will have to be turned into reasonable stats and strengths.

 

[IslandStyle808]

it's a job...the only thing that makes us special is the scarcity of our skills/knowledge

Being a physicians is doing a duty that isn't always compensated, so there are moments where you can't call it a job. My dad was a physician and had many people who couldn't pay to see him in the past (no insurance). Of course, he couldn't see them all otherwise he couldn't keep his practice afloat if he did. However, he willing did if he could. So yes there are physicians out there who will take a hit to their salary "voluntarily" to help people with their medical problems.

I am not stating doctors are special or what not. What I am stating here is that doctors can and do take their knowledge to help people without the need to be paid. Well, at least the good ones do (when I say good I mean good of morals and not just skill).

 

[deleted480308]

Being a physicians is doing a duty that isn't always compensated, so there are moments where you can't call it a job. My dad was a physician and had many people who couldn't pay to see him in the past (no insurance). Of course, he couldn't see them all otherwise he couldn't keep his practice afloat if he did. However, he willing did if he could. So yes there are physicians out there who will take a hit to their salary "voluntarily" to help people with their medical problems.

I am not stating doctors are special or what not. What I am stating here is that doctors can and do take their knowledge to help people without the need to be paid. Well, at least the good ones do (when I say good I mean good of morals and not just skill).

And I know construction guys that volunteer for habit for humanity, construction is still a job. You can be a nice person with a job

 

[Labrat07]

.

 

[RoboMedic]

I don't agree with this. If being a doctor is just a job, I would not try to be one. No way in hell. There are many other jobs that offer a greater lifestyle. There's no reason to jump all the hoops just to have a job. IMO, most of us want this because of combination intellectual challenges, love of sciences, making a difference in people life and career satisfaction. We might lose them along the way but those were our original thoughts. You need more reasons other than " just a job" to go through all that obstacles.

Everyone says there are jobs out there that offer a greater lifestyle. Like what?

Maybe for a math whiz who can work on wall street doing quantitative analysis and rake in. What other jobs offer the same long term ROI like medicine that don't require extraordinary level of intelligence?

I chose to pursue med school partly because it's the most realistic challenge I can give myself (and even this might not be obtainable for me). Sure I might try to challenge myself to become some computer science or physics whiz but I reckon the chance of great success in those fields with only slightly above average intelligence is null. Medicine seems like the only option for a reasonably intelligent person to work hard and enter a profession that garners respect and high level compensation. And it's highly stimulating subject matter with a vast number of specialty fields (something for everyone), there is always high demand for it with the ever expanding population.

 

[Goro]

You have a lot of work to do before worrying about interviews.

But find a DO to shadow and get a LOR from him/her.

If anyone has any other tips for getting through an interview or anything else, well I will really appreciate that advice. I've always been something of a contrarian so all of the barriers to entry only make me want to get in more. Looks like this is going to be a very tough road to entrance so I will have to step up my game in all areas. Right now I have nothing but borderline stats and weaknesses; they will have to be turned into reasonable stats and strengths.

 

[coffee-doc]

If you want to become a doctor for whatever reason, I say go for it. Not everyone has to have the same intrinsic passion for it as others. Just because some of the pre-meds on here have been dreaming of being a physician for years does not make them any more qualified than you. You're 28 years old so you're an adult who can make your own decisions, you don't need self-prescribed pundits on a website to make that decision for you.

If you're serious about becoming a doctor, just mentally prepare for the long haul. You sound like you have the mental fortitude to handle it, most people honestly can imo.

Step-wise:
Mentally prepare yourself to leave your past behind you, because that portion of your life is over. From this point on, it's going to be about pleasing other people. You must understand this. You sound a little selfish honestly. You gotta understand that your life will essentially be controlled by other factors now (STEP scores, subjective rotation evaluations, hospital admin, etc.)
Come to the realization that DO is your future if you want to continue.
Try your hardest to nail these last two physics classes.
After the physics classes, re-take any C and below coursework in Bio, Chem, Physics and other science coursework (full list on aacomas website)
Nail that MCAT first try. Like really put your mind to it. Get above a 508.
Volunteer and get healthcare exposure heavily.

There you have it. Prove to the admissions board that you will be an asset. There are many others who think they deserve the spot more because of their 'passion' (including myself) but it is all horse ****.
It's all about how hard you're willing to work from this point on.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you want to become a doctor for whatever reason, I say go for it. Not everyone has to have the same intrinsic passion for it as others. Just because some of the pre-meds on here have been dreaming of being a physician for years does not make them any more qualified than you. You're 28 years old so you're an adult who can make your own decisions, you don't need self-prescribed pundits on a website to make that decision for you.

If you're serious about becoming a doctor, just mentally prepare for the long haul. You sound like you have the mental fortitude to handle it, most people honestly can imo.

Step-wise:
Mentally prepare yourself to leave your past behind you, because that portion of your life is over. From this point on, it's going to be about pleasing other people. You must understand this. You sound a little selfish honestly. You gotta understand that your life will essentially be controlled by other factors now (STEP scores, subjective rotation evaluations, hospital admin, etc.)
Come to the realization that DO is your future if you want to continue.
Try your hardest to nail these last two physics classes.
After the physics classes, re-take any C and below coursework in Bio, Chem, Physics and other science coursework (full list on aacomas website)
Nail that MCAT first try. Like really put your mind to it. Get above a 508.
Volunteer and get healthcare exposure heavily.

There you have it. Prove to the admissions board that you will be an asset. There are many others who think they deserve the spot more because of their 'passion' (including myself) but it is all horse ****.
It's all about how hard you're willing to work from this point on.

It's not about "passion" it's about actually liking the job function. Not just trying to prove you can do it for bragging rights. There are jobs where you can not really care and just phone it in much more realistically than in medicine. It doesn't have to be a calling but if your attitude is - it's a job and pays the bills, my bet is you'll hate every minute of your life in medicine. It's not for everyone and not amenable to coasting. Having been in another career I can assure you that medicine is quite different, and in law you truly could get away with the attitude you are describing much more easily.