Fourth year student about to be dismissed, HELP!!

[JP2740]

So if you attending for the month said to you that tomorrow I am playing golf and you should take the day off and relax, you would really go to your program director and ask him if there was work to do?"

Is this for real? If my resident/student did that, I would never offer him a day off again b/c he is too dumb to appreciate it.

Lmao if my student did this I’d trash their eval, and I will be an attending soon to do this. Maybe I’ll use that as a test

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[CherryRedDracul]

So if you attending for the month said to you that tomorrow I am playing golf and you should take the day off and relax, you would really go to your program director and ask him if there was work to do?"

Is this for real? If my resident/student did that, I would never offer him a day off again b/c he is too dumb to appreciate it.

Exactly. You want to develop an unsavory reputation with your supervisors? You go ahead and look for extra work when you've been dismissed. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Here are a few things I've learned as a physician:

1. A good deed never goes unpunished. Perhaps it's hyperbole, but you gotta pick your battles wisely. Stick your neck out too far and something's going to fall on it.
2. If you've been relieved of work, be grateful and say "thank you". Sure, you can, with grace, ask if there's anything else you can help with, but when the answer to that is no, get out. Don't brown-nose further. Don't snitch to their higher-ups. You risk developing a reputation as being "annoying". Protect your reputation.

That's life.

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Exactly. You want to develop an unsavory reputation with your supervisors? You go ahead and look for extra work when you've been dismissed. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Here are a few things I've learned as a physician:

1. A good deed never goes unpunished. Perhaps it's hyperbole, but you gotta pick your battles wisely. Stick your neck out too far and something's going to fall on it.
2. If you've been relieved of work, be grateful and say "thank you". Sure, you can, with grace, ask if there's anything else you can help with, but when the answer to that is no, get out. Don't brown-nose further. Don't snitch to their higher-ups. You risk developing a reputation as being "annoying". Protect your reputation.

That's life.

That is how it should work, but there is a class of people out there whose life mission is to make everyone else miserable. These are the people who walk from bakery to bakery in search of someone to take to court for not baking them a cake, who come up with terminology like "microagressions" and who try to join clubs they otherwise have no interest being in just so that they can interfere with and disrupt other people's fun. These are awful, disgusting people, and they are unsurprisingly overrepresented in the "administration" of nearly every large institution. They flock to "administration" like a fly to you-know-what.

So while you describe how medical students/residents/humans should act so as to preserve the smooth functioning of a non-malignant environment, the situation is complicated by the cancerous tendrils reaching out from the dark recesses of "administrative" departments everywhere. There is nothing these terrible people abhor more than letting you, whom they perceive as little more than property to be administered, to exercise normal human discretion. In their ideal world, you'd have to fill out a form weeks in advance for their permission to take a dump. So the attending may well tell you to take a day off, but with stories like the OP's, how lucky do you feel to just take his direction and leave it at that?

 

[Giovanotto]

That is how it should work, but there is a class of people out there whose life mission is to make everyone else miserable. These are the people who walk from bakery to bakery in search of someone to take to court for not baking them a cake, who come up with terminology like "microagressions" and who try to join clubs they otherwise have no interest being in just so that they can interfere with and disrupt other people's fun. These are awful, disgusting people, and they are unsurprisingly overrepresented in the "administration" of nearly every large institution. They flock to "administration" like a fly to you-know-what.

So while you describe how medical students/residents/humans should act so as to preserve the smooth functioning of a non-malignant environment, the situation is complicated by the cancerous tendrils reaching out from the dark recesses of "administrative" departments everywhere. There is nothing these terrible people abhor more than letting you, whom they perceive as little more than property to be administered, to exercise normal human discretion. In their ideal world, you'd have to fill out a form weeks in advance for their permission to take a dump. So the attending may well tell you to take a day off, but with stories like the OP's, how lucky do you feel to just take his direction and leave it at that?

Gold, everytime.

 

[Entadus]

There seems to be a fairly widespread misconception here --

The academic dishonesty misdeed was NOT is taking the week off, but in reporting his work as if he had worked that week.

I don't think that's abundantly clear from what the OP wrote. What was the exact wording of the form? Dates of the rotation? Or dates worked with the evaluator?

 

[JP2740]

That is how it should work, but there is a class of people out there whose life mission is to make everyone else miserable. These are the people who walk from bakery to bakery in search of someone to take to court for not baking them a cake, who come up with terminology like "microagressions" and who try to join clubs they otherwise have no interest being in just so that they can interfere with and disrupt other people's fun. These are awful, disgusting people, and they are unsurprisingly overrepresented in the "administration" of nearly every large institution. They flock to "administration" like a fly to you-know-what.

So while you describe how medical students/residents/humans should act so as to preserve the smooth functioning of a non-malignant environment, the situation is complicated by the cancerous tendrils reaching out from the dark recesses of "administrative" departments everywhere. There is nothing these terrible people abhor more than letting you, whom they perceive as little more than property to be administered, to exercise normal human discretion. In their ideal world, you'd have to fill out a form weeks in advance for their permission to take a dump. So the attending may well tell you to take a day off, but with stories like the OP's, how lucky do you feel to just take his direction and leave it at that?

Good post

 

[mehc012]

Some of my scribes leave and clock out b/c they want to, some go home and clock out (yeah.... I know, but I am not their mother), and some sit around surfing the internet/clock out at the end.

So should we fire the scribes that sit around watching netflix until the end to clock out? In essence, they are getting paid doing nothing.

Should you report them? Nah, you're not their boss and you're not paying their checks. Should they be doing that? Also no. That's why they have their own supervisors/managers (who do care about the kinds of things you're mentioning).

I just wouldn't hold it up as an example. What, "hey, sometimes supervisors don't notice poor employee behavior and they get away with it so OP should be fine" is the best argument here?

Would your scribes get fired over a few hours of internet browsing when the census is low? No. Would they get warned and then fired if it were found out they were clocking out from home? Possibly. Would they get fired if they were told not to come in for an entire week's worth of shifts and clocked in from home for them all? Almost certainly. Scale matters. Hours, fine. Day? Maybe as a rare exception. A whole week, which is one full quarter of a rotation? That's worth checking in about.

That being said, I feel for OP and think that in the context of listing scheduled dates of a rotation, this is more understandable. I really hope they're not punished for it. But the example of scribes getting away with behavior that their parent company certainly wouldn't have appreciated, but didn't notice or pursue because it was only a few hours is hardly analogous.

 

[Microshaft]

Just curious though, if you had written 3 weeks instead of the full 4 weeks on your eval form would u have been punished?

either way thats some next level bull****

 

[Game Changer 99]

You are correct about there being somewhat of a slippery slope. How much is too much? That's a matter of judgement, and in this case, the OP's judgement was, in my opinion and in the opinion of his dean, faulty to the point of being somewhat dishonest. It's not a black and white issue, but rather a grey one.

You may find some 'spin room' if you look at the exact wording of the form's question about dates. If it asked for "rotation" dates, then technically, 4 weeks was the right answer. If it asked for dates "worked", then clearly, it was not. Importantly though - this would not be my first line of defense. Humble first - spin later, if needed.

Can't reply to everyone, but the evaluation form reads "rotation dates" and according to the handbook is supposed to start on Sunday and end on Saturday, regardless of when the first and last day of the rotation actually occur. According to the policy, I listed the dates for the rotation as assigned by my school. It isn't my fault the attending told me to take the week off. I did as my superior told me to do and now my school is trying to discipline me for it.

Had to submit an evaluation for a different rotation that ended today. To be a smart @ss, I listed only the dates I was in clinic and emailed it to both the rotation coordinator, assistant dean, and dean to ensure I can't be accused of any dishonesty. Based on these fools logic, I could be dismissed for including weekend days which I list, but didn't work.

 

[Game Changer 99]

Just curious though, if you had written 3 weeks instead of the full 4 weeks on your eval form would u have been punished?

either way thats some next level bull****

I'm not sure what they would have done because rotations must be either 2 or 4 weeks; completing a 3 week rotation may blow there minds.

 

[Game Changer 99]

UPDATE

After my post yesterday and some reflection, I believe my school is entirely wrong and I am entirely correct. I contacted a lawyer and he believes the exact same thing. He advised me not attend the meeting today without him and he came with me. My school was surprised and obviously unprepared, it was clear there was an intimidation factor in play. I did very little talking and my lawyer informed the school why they were wrong and how ridiculous it was to be punishing me in this instance. We were able to determine Dr. X was fired for some type of unprofessional behavior and he has not been contacted.

A summary of my lawyer's defense was I am a student who pays a large sum of money to attend school. My tuition pays for the structure of my rotations, including the attendings and instruction and direction I'm given from my superiors. I was told by someone I'm supposed to listen to that I should take the week off. He emphasized that the school was more liable for this week off because they are in charge of my education and are at fault because they were unaware I wasn't in clinic. He asked the dean why I pay over $1,000 per week and the school had no idea I wasn't in clinic that week. The dean and none of the other clowns from the administration had much to say. He informed the school they better provide a method for me to contact Dr. X or drop the issue. Basically, he challenged them to continue to pursue this issue because he said they have no justifiable basis to pursue any academic dishonesty charges. He told them we won't be accepting any offers other than dropping the whole issue. All the committee would say was they will review their position and will be in contact next week. My lawyer expects they will at most ask me to apologize and/or make up the week with vacation, but he advises me not to do that because the school is entirely in the wrong and they will make me a weak offer to save face.

 

[Game Changer 99]

Initially, I thought what are the odds of getting enough administrators in the same school to view this as academic dishonesty. Then i read all the posts suggesting I'm at fault for doing what I was told by my attending. Now I can easily see why I'm in this position. Plenty of people on here who share the same views. Funny how no one can define an exact number of hours/days you're allowed to take off before it is being dishonest. If an attending tells you to take the afternoon off, is that ok? What if it is a whole day or two? Or what if a whole week? Is it dishonest if you miss nearly a whole rotation because of residency interviews? I know people at my school who only been present for 2-3 days for a 4 week rotation, I suppose they should be fearful too. Where is the line when one needs to contact the school? Doesn't the attending work for the school (even though they don't get paid)? I always considered them my boss for that four week period, meaning they own me and tell me when and where to be.

 

[Game Changer 99]

My gut reaction is that the Dean is being 100% honest, but in the same way that a rare side effect from a drug is also a "real possibility".

Meaning, one of the sanctions for academic dishonesty is dismissal, but what is the likelihood that it will be the sanction????? I suspect that the Dean is trying to get you to realize that you screwed up and is applying some tough love to smack you upside the head so you don't do anything like this in the future. In NYC we call that a dope slap.

I screwed up for doing exactly as was told by my attending?? Is that what you're saying? Could you explain how I screwed up more than the attending provided by my school? Seems like you would match perfectly with those at my school, admin who has to make work to keep busy. People with your line of thought could use a dope slap to fix their crooked thought process. There was nothing about my actions that was dishonest as I did exactly like I was told.

Don't worry, I won't do anything like this in the future. I will follow my attending the entire four week period from now on. Follow them home, to the store, restaurants, and so on.

 

[Game Changer 99]

When you go into this hearing, it's very important that you understand their viewpoint of the situation.

The main issue is this: Claiming credit for time you were actually away for is academic dishonesty. The preceptor who told you to "take the week off" doesn't have the ability to give you a week off, and you should have known better. In the same way that if a course leader tells you that you don't have to show up for class and they will give you an "A". Or if a lab delivers bags of cash to you for referring patients to them (there was a news story about this, can't find it now). All of these are unacceptable, even if the other person tells you that it's totally fine. And you should have known that. You should have contacted your school and asked them what to do.

Whether dismissing you, vs making you repeat the rotation are the appropriate response is up to them. In all cases, they should alert all programs to which you have applied about the issue.

The preceptor doesn't have the ability to give me the week off, what? The preceptor tells me what time to show up to clinic, leave clinic, and what days we work, and what days I'm on call, etc.

Really disappointed in your response, but I guess I'm not surprised. Think of one of your best residents and how getting this type of email would change where you ranked them. Tell me how that would be fair. I guarantee you many of your residents got a week off or at least several days off at some point during clinical rotations and I bet they didn't notify anyone from their school. My personal belief is that going around your attending after they told you to take the week off would be unprofessional and make them look bad, likely upsetting them.

 

[LebronManning]

Lol bro I feel like you made a non issue that was gonna end up being you writing a reflection paper into a huge drawn out battle by bringing a lawyer.

 

[Giovanotto]

 

[Giovanotto]

Lol bro I feel like you made a non issue that was gonna end up being you writing a reflection paper into a huge drawn out battle by bringing a lawyer.

Not really, the school wanted to play hardball, and hardball they got. Glad he didn't roll over, like most of us would, given how precarious our position as medical students in debt is. Maybe now the school will think twice about throwing the word "dismissal" around like some sort of control tool.

 

[JP2740]

Truly don’t know if the lawyer move was right. All I do know is that you were not wrong in any way shape or form. I really want you to get out of this. Keep us updated. They are trying to ruin your life

 

[JP2740]

Lol bro I feel like you made a non issue that was gonna end up being you writing a reflection paper into a huge drawn out battle by bringing a lawyer.

**** them man. This guy busted his ass for four years and they want to kick a high class member of society to the curb and basically ruin him because of some BS.

 

[LebronManning]

Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree OP didn't do anything wrong lol. I can't believe this is a thing; I wonder if Dr. Y even knew this would become what it has lol. I just feel like the school's ego got rocked with the lawyer and Idk that sounds scary

 

[Aerus]

The rule is that your preceptor is the boss. Do not piss off your boss. The school is stupid if they expect the student to report vacation time given to you by your boss. Put yourself in the preceptor's shoes. If a medical student under you reported you to the administrators for the time off given and you were notified, would you be mad? Especially if you wanted to be considerate of the student? This is a stupid risk that the school is encouraging.

Medicine is a hierarchy and the medical student is screwed either way if this really gets a student considered for academic dismissal.

 

[emergentmd]

OP, I am not sure what you did was right or wrong and only time will tell. I think your tactic will end up being the right move when looking at the odds game. I have no clue what admin was thinking but I can not possibly believe all of them would have dismissed you but you never know and all it takes is one Hot head to push the whole think tank.

If they were going to dismiss you, what you did was correct. They will likely back off and make you do something stupid to graduate. Alittle pain but no big deal in the long run.

If they were going to slap you on the wrist, they likely will slap you alittle harder.

Either way, I bet you will be fine.

The position admin put you in is impossible. Listen to you preceptor and you can get dismissed. Don't listen to your preceptor, and they could dismiss you for disobeying orders.

What a bunch of clowns who needs to be publicly shamed.

 

[Microshaft]

I hate lawyers sometimes cuz they charge you so much

then again they are pretty awesome sometimes

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Lots has happened on this thread since I last posted.

To summarize my position, I think that what the faculty member did was wrong. They had a student assigned to them, and they can't just give them a week off. They should have declined to have the student, or assigned the student to someone else for the week. However, I also think that what the OP did was wrong. They should recognize that they shouldn't just get an extra week off, and should have brought it to someone's attention.

If an attending told me to take the week off because he was going on vacation, I would take the week off and return when I was supposed to. The issue here is that the attending that OP's school set him up with was fired or quit in that week time frame.

This is an issue for the SCHOOL. The student was following the attending's instructions who he was scheduled to be on rotation with. Unless the student found himself this rotation and petitioned the school to let him be with this attending, I don't see where the student is at fault here.

The problem is that the attending doesn't have the authority to just give you time off. The school expects you to get 4 weeks (or however long) of education.

Yeah that’s a job. This is a bull**** meaningless fourth year rotation. There’s literally stories of people showing up to radiology and anesthesiology and being told “I can’t have students slowing me down take the time for yourself.” Should we kick them out too? Lol. Bringing examples from jobs and residents is ludicrous.

Everyone who has run into this type of problem in my program used the excuse "I did this when it was a student". We can have a discussion about whether it's OK as a student (although I disagree with that), but we need to be clear that this type of behavior often won't fly in residency.

When you say the schedule is missing, do you mean they actually have patients assigned that day but they don't appear on the schedule? Or do you mean the schedule truly is empty, but they are supposed to know to ask for more patients to see? If it's the former, then I think they need to be warned that empty schedules are always an error. If it's the latter, then that completely differs from my residency experience: The clinic schedule is accurate and if it says no patients then enjoy your half day off. You didn't need to ask for more patients because there are no more...if there were more they would have been on the schedule in the first place.

What I meant was that the master schedule said that the resident was supposed to be in clinic, but their clinic schedule was missing. It was a scheduling error. Completely not the resident's fault. However, bringing that error to our attention so it could be fixed is a professional responsibility, at least in my opinion. Saying "you screwed up the schedule, so I just decided to take the day off" isn't acceptable.

If you have a schedule and it's empty, and no patients are coming, then I'm fine with leaving for the session if the preceptor says it's OK. But that's a different situation.

What if the 4th year told their PD "Hey, I have 2-3 interviews this week, can I take a few days off", then the PD told them to take the week off to interview? Are they being academically dishonest if they're told to take time off to interview for residencies or is that an acceptable reason to be excused? At my school we're not given any time off for this, so we basically have to take off days from rotation to do it. Is it academically dishonest to try and be more efficient and get more done all at once instead of spreading them out and missing more days? Even if our attendings tell us to do it?

Your program should have a policy about this. My program, for example, supports all residents in their search for fellowships or jobs. We consider interviews part of their professional development, and give them paid work time to attend them, including reasonable travel time. We might build a "board study" rotation if someone has so many interviews in a short period of time making a clinical elective unworkable. Regardless, we set a curriculum and hold them to some standard (completion of MKSAP questions, etc). Once we had someone who cancelled their interviews, and still took the days off to relax. That did not end well for them.

I get where you're coming from, but M4 and residency are not the same thing, and there are times when it's more important for us to miss days, or even weeks, than make sure we show up to clinic.

I agree, and schools should have a workable policy that allows students to attend interviews. If a school has a "no missed days for interviews" policy and then has no way for students to actually take the time to interview, that's an impossible mess. But this has nothing to do with the OP's situation -- they didn't miss time to do some other important issue, they just took an extra week of vacation.

This is the experience I've had with residents and their attendings so far as well. When they were given a morning or day off, the attendings told them to go run errands or relax. They were expected to put so much time in already that any time off was a godsend as it helped them keep their real lives somewhat organized. An entire week and I agree they should probably check to make sure there wasn't some kind of mistake, but I wouldn't question getting a day off at any point given the amount of time we already put into this process.

I agree that there is a threshold. If there is nothing clinically happening and you want to send a student home early, that's fine. Giving them a complete day off I think is a bad idea, unless you have the permission of the clerkship director. A week off us unacceptable. In my residency program, we address this with a personal day policy. If a resident wants a day off for any personal reason, all they do is request it and as long as it doesn't cause any schedule problems, they get the day off. Each resident gets the same number of days to use, and the number of days that can be used in any block is limited.

Hell naw man. I had multiple times I had extra time off, like doing outpatient when there was a major conference. Had like 5 days off. I got drunk everyday like a responsible physician. I'm not gonna go to my chiefs and say where else can I serve you masters.

Did the same **** as a med student. You know what, it may be wrong and may be a fireable offense, but I never got caught lol and I'd do it every single time over and over again.

Until someone cares, at which point it becomes a big problem. The key is "not getting caught". Or perhaps in your program people don't care -- and that's fine, but not all programs will agree.

So if you attending for the month said to you that tomorrow I am playing golf and you should take the day off and relax, you would really go to your program director and ask him if there was work to do?"

Is this for real? If my resident/student did that, I would never offer him a day off again b/c he is too dumb to appreciate it.

Yes, this is for real. This wouldn't happen in my program, because people are assigned to a service not a person. So, if you're doing a GI elective and the person you were working with was taking the day off, there would be someone else to work with instead. Even during a big meeting (i.e. ACG), someone will be covering the service. Holidays are off, when the whole clinic is closed. But if a resident was on GI, all of the faculty are at ACG, and the one person left tells them "take 5 days off, because I'm too busy", then I expect the resident to send me an email to ensure that this is OK. At that point, we'd figure out a plan.

It isn't my fault the attending told me to take the week off. I did as my superior told me to do and now my school is trying to discipline me for it.

As mentioned, I see it differently. Yes, your attending told you to take the week off, and that was wrong. Hence, you should have checked with the clerkship director, just to be sure.

I see this as similar to going to a store and getting the wrong change handed to you. One way to look at it is: the cashier made a mistake, not my fault, I win. Another way to look at it is: The cashier made a mistake, I have a chance to do the right thing and fix the problem.

I screwed up for doing exactly as was told by my attending?? Is that what you're saying? Could you explain how I screwed up more than the attending provided by my school? Seems like you would match perfectly with those at my school, admin who has to make work to keep busy. People with your line of thought could use a dope slap to fix their crooked thought process. There was nothing about my actions that was dishonest as I did exactly like I was told.

I agree the attending screwed up. I also agree that you were not dishonest. But I still maintain that what you did was wrong. Your school should have a process to address absences for students to attend interviews which is a different issue (missing educational time for the purpose of moving your career forward).

The preceptor doesn't have the ability to give me the week off, what? The preceptor tells me what time to show up to clinic, leave clinic, and what days we work, and what days I'm on call, etc.

Really disappointed in your response, but I guess I'm not surprised. Think of one of your best residents and how getting this type of email would change where you ranked them. Tell me how that would be fair. I guarantee you many of your residents got a week off or at least several days off at some point during clinical rotations and I bet they didn't notify anyone from their school. My personal belief is that going around your attending after they told you to take the week off would be unprofessional and make them look bad, likely upsetting them.

If we heard about this type of issue with someone we had interviewed this season, it absolutely would affect their ranking. And, my best residents wouldn't end up in this type of position, because they would recognize it's a problem and would have asked. In fact, it just happened recently -- someone was doing a highly specialized rotation with a specific faculty member. The faculty had an unexpected, sudden absence. They told the resident to "just read". Rather than just "stay home and relax", the resident contacted us and asked what to do. We came up with a reasonable plan.

I'm very surprised about the end of your story here, bringing a lawyer to your meeting. I'm glad it's worked out for you (although I worry you may not have seen the last of this, and may have escalated it). But for the sake of others who may be reading this, here's how this could / should have been handled by your school: They should have told the lawyer to take a hike. You have no legal right to legal representation at work/school. You're welcome to hire a lawyer to get advice, but they are not welcome in my office. Then, you and I discuss the issue. I happen to disagree with your lawyer, as I don't think it was the school's responsibility to check on every student to ensure that their rotation is going fine. I think it's the student's responsibility to report back to the school that there is a problem.

Your school blew this out of proportion (or, perhaps, your interpretation of what they were going to do was blown out of proportion). They should have made you make up the missed time in some way. You certainly shouldn't be dismissed over something like this, unless it was a repeated behavior after warnings. I'm suggesting you simply recognize why some would see this as a real problem, and recognize how you might address a problem like this in the future.

 

[deleted480308]

UPDATE

After my post yesterday and some reflection, I believe my school is entirely wrong and I am entirely correct. I contacted a lawyer and he believes the exact same thing. He advised me not attend the meeting today without him and he came with me. My school was surprised and obviously unprepared, it was clear there was an intimidation factor in play. I did very little talking and my lawyer informed the school why they were wrong and how ridiculous it was to be punishing me in this instance. We were able to determine Dr. X was fired for some type of unprofessional behavior and he has not been contacted.

A summary of my lawyer's defense was I am a student who pays a large sum of money to attend school. My tuition pays for the structure of my rotations, including the attendings and instruction and direction I'm given from my superiors. I was told by someone I'm supposed to listen to that I should take the week off. He emphasized that the school was more liable for this week off because they are in charge of my education and are at fault because they were unaware I wasn't in clinic. He asked the dean why I pay over $1,000 per week and the school had no idea I wasn't in clinic that week. The dean and none of the other clowns from the administration had much to say. He informed the school they better provide a method for me to contact Dr. X or drop the issue. Basically, he challenged them to continue to pursue this issue because he said they have no justifiable basis to pursue any academic dishonesty charges. He told them we won't be accepting any offers other than dropping the whole issue. All the committee would say was they will review their position and will be in contact next week. My lawyer expects they will at most ask me to apologize and/or make up the week with vacation, but he advises me not to do that because the school is entirely in the wrong and they will make me a weak offer to save face.

If your school offers a “this is over and all you have to do is repeat the week” and you don’t trip over yourself in your rush to accept you are screwing up

This isn’t about winning the war of who is right, the war is being a doctor or not. Don’t screw with anything other than the real goal, pride and time off means nothing in comparison to knowing you actually graduate and move on

Also, admins have the internet and if you aren’t just an entertaining troll, I would drop the name calling. Admin can always hurt you more

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

Lots has happened on this thread since I last posted.

To summarize my position, I think that what the faculty member did was wrong. They had a student assigned to them, and they can't just give them a week off. They should have declined to have the student, or assigned the student to someone else for the week. However, I also think that what the OP did was wrong. They should recognize that they shouldn't just get an extra week off, and should have brought it to someone's attention.



The problem is that the attending doesn't have the authority to just give you time off. The school expects you to get 4 weeks (or however long) of education.



Everyone who has run into this type of problem in my program used the excuse "I did this when it was a student". We can have a discussion about whether it's OK as a student (although I disagree with that), but we need to be clear that this type of behavior often won't fly in residency.



What I meant was that the master schedule said that the resident was supposed to be in clinic, but their clinic schedule was missing. It was a scheduling error. Completely not the resident's fault. However, bringing that error to our attention so it could be fixed is a professional responsibility, at least in my opinion. Saying "you screwed up the schedule, so I just decided to take the day off" isn't acceptable.

If you have a schedule and it's empty, and no patients are coming, then I'm fine with leaving for the session if the preceptor says it's OK. But that's a different situation.



Your program should have a policy about this. My program, for example, supports all residents in their search for fellowships or jobs. We consider interviews part of their professional development, and give them paid work time to attend them, including reasonable travel time. We might build a "board study" rotation if someone has so many interviews in a short period of time making a clinical elective unworkable. Regardless, we set a curriculum and hold them to some standard (completion of MKSAP questions, etc). Once we had someone who cancelled their interviews, and still took the days off to relax. That did not end well for them.



I agree, and schools should have a workable policy that allows students to attend interviews. If a school has a "no missed days for interviews" policy and then has no way for students to actually take the time to interview, that's an impossible mess. But this has nothing to do with the OP's situation -- they didn't miss time to do some other important issue, they just took an extra week of vacation.



I agree that there is a threshold. If there is nothing clinically happening and you want to send a student home early, that's fine. Giving them a complete day off I think is a bad idea, unless you have the permission of the clerkship director. A week off us unacceptable. In my residency program, we address this with a personal day policy. If a resident wants a day off for any personal reason, all they do is request it and as long as it doesn't cause any schedule problems, they get the day off. Each resident gets the same number of days to use, and the number of days that can be used in any block is limited.



Until someone cares, at which point it becomes a big problem. The key is "not getting caught". Or perhaps in your program people don't care -- and that's fine, but not all programs will agree.



Yes, this is for real. This wouldn't happen in my program, because people are assigned to a service not a person. So, if you're doing a GI elective and the person you were working with was taking the day off, there would be someone else to work with instead. Even during a big meeting (i.e. ACG), someone will be covering the service. Holidays are off, when the whole clinic is closed. But if a resident was on GI, all of the faculty are at ACG, and the one person left tells them "take 5 days off, because I'm too busy", then I expect the resident to send me an email to ensure that this is OK. At that point, we'd figure out a plan.



As mentioned, I see it differently. Yes, your attending told you to take the week off, and that was wrong. Hence, you should have checked with the clerkship director, just to be sure.

I see this as similar to going to a store and getting the wrong change handed to you. One way to look at it is: the cashier made a mistake, not my fault, I win. Another way to look at it is: The cashier made a mistake, I have a chance to do the right thing and fix the problem.



I agree the attending screwed up. I also agree that you were not dishonest. But I still maintain that what you did was wrong. Your school should have a process to address absences for students to attend interviews which is a different issue (missing educational time for the purpose of moving your career forward).



If we heard about this type of issue with someone we had interviewed this season, it absolutely would affect their ranking. And, my best residents wouldn't end up in this type of position, because they would recognize it's a problem and would have asked. In fact, it just happened recently -- someone was doing a highly specialized rotation with a specific faculty member. The faculty had an unexpected, sudden absence. They told the resident to "just read". Rather than just "stay home and relax", the resident contacted us and asked what to do. We came up with a reasonable plan.

I'm very surprised about the end of your story here, bringing a lawyer to your meeting. I'm glad it's worked out for you (although I worry you may not have seen the last of this, and may have escalated it). But for the sake of others who may be reading this, here's how this could / should have been handled by your school: They should have told the lawyer to take a hike. You have no legal right to legal representation at work/school. You're welcome to hire a lawyer to get advice, but they are not welcome in my office. Then, you and I discuss the issue. I happen to disagree with your lawyer, as I don't think it was the school's responsibility to check on every student to ensure that their rotation is going fine. I think it's the student's responsibility to report back to the school that there is a problem.

Your school blew this out of proportion (or, perhaps, your interpretation of what they were going to do was blown out of proportion). They should have made you make up the missed time in some way. You certainly shouldn't be dismissed over something like this, unless it was a repeated behavior after warnings. I'm suggesting you simply recognize why some would see this as a real problem, and recognize how you might address a problem like this in the future.

eloquently put. right on point

 

[W19]

Not really, the school wanted to play hardball, and hardball they got. Glad he didn't roll over, like most of us would, given how precarious our position as medical students in debt is. Maybe now the school will think twice about throwing the word "dismissal" around like some sort of control tool.

That's how medical school controls us... So much is at stake, so we are scared to play hardball with them.

 

[operaman]

Wow, gutsy move with the lawyer OP! I do hope it plays out well for you. I’m surprised they let you bring one in there as many academic hearings don’t permit it. I would caution you to keep a humble attitude despite what your lawyer said. Remember that your attorney is biased toward your side and is there to strongly articulate your side.

Administrators without the school’s own legal counsel present would wisely remain silent rather than say anything that could impact potential litigation. I would not take their silence as any sort of win. They will surely meet with legal counsel before getting back to you and they almost certainly do still have legal standing to bounce you, so take any offer they give short of dismissal. Even if your lawyer thinks you could win in court, that still might end up costing you your career. Tread lightly.

Regardless of the policies regarding this rotation in your handbook, your school almost certainly has some version of a professionalism policy that allows them to dismiss someone for whatever they deem as unprofessional behavior. Thus far, courts have been very reluctant to insert themselves into the role of deciding what is or isn’t professional behavior, trusting that the physicians running a medical school are better arbiters of a future physicians professionalism than a judge.

Summary: you did not win anything and may be in more jeopardy now than you were before.

 

[mimelim]

Lots has happened on this thread since I last posted.

To summarize my position, I think that what the faculty member did was wrong. They had a student assigned to them, and they can't just give them a week off. They should have declined to have the student, or assigned the student to someone else for the week. However, I also think that what the OP did was wrong. They should recognize that they shouldn't just get an extra week off, and should have brought it to someone's attention.



The problem is that the attending doesn't have the authority to just give you time off. The school expects you to get 4 weeks (or however long) of education.



Everyone who has run into this type of problem in my program used the excuse "I did this when it was a student". We can have a discussion about whether it's OK as a student (although I disagree with that), but we need to be clear that this type of behavior often won't fly in residency.



What I meant was that the master schedule said that the resident was supposed to be in clinic, but their clinic schedule was missing. It was a scheduling error. Completely not the resident's fault. However, bringing that error to our attention so it could be fixed is a professional responsibility, at least in my opinion. Saying "you screwed up the schedule, so I just decided to take the day off" isn't acceptable.

If you have a schedule and it's empty, and no patients are coming, then I'm fine with leaving for the session if the preceptor says it's OK. But that's a different situation.



Your program should have a policy about this. My program, for example, supports all residents in their search for fellowships or jobs. We consider interviews part of their professional development, and give them paid work time to attend them, including reasonable travel time. We might build a "board study" rotation if someone has so many interviews in a short period of time making a clinical elective unworkable. Regardless, we set a curriculum and hold them to some standard (completion of MKSAP questions, etc). Once we had someone who cancelled their interviews, and still took the days off to relax. That did not end well for them.



I agree, and schools should have a workable policy that allows students to attend interviews. If a school has a "no missed days for interviews" policy and then has no way for students to actually take the time to interview, that's an impossible mess. But this has nothing to do with the OP's situation -- they didn't miss time to do some other important issue, they just took an extra week of vacation.



I agree that there is a threshold. If there is nothing clinically happening and you want to send a student home early, that's fine. Giving them a complete day off I think is a bad idea, unless you have the permission of the clerkship director. A week off us unacceptable. In my residency program, we address this with a personal day policy. If a resident wants a day off for any personal reason, all they do is request it and as long as it doesn't cause any schedule problems, they get the day off. Each resident gets the same number of days to use, and the number of days that can be used in any block is limited.



Until someone cares, at which point it becomes a big problem. The key is "not getting caught". Or perhaps in your program people don't care -- and that's fine, but not all programs will agree.



Yes, this is for real. This wouldn't happen in my program, because people are assigned to a service not a person. So, if you're doing a GI elective and the person you were working with was taking the day off, there would be someone else to work with instead. Even during a big meeting (i.e. ACG), someone will be covering the service. Holidays are off, when the whole clinic is closed. But if a resident was on GI, all of the faculty are at ACG, and the one person left tells them "take 5 days off, because I'm too busy", then I expect the resident to send me an email to ensure that this is OK. At that point, we'd figure out a plan.



As mentioned, I see it differently. Yes, your attending told you to take the week off, and that was wrong. Hence, you should have checked with the clerkship director, just to be sure.

I see this as similar to going to a store and getting the wrong change handed to you. One way to look at it is: the cashier made a mistake, not my fault, I win. Another way to look at it is: The cashier made a mistake, I have a chance to do the right thing and fix the problem.



I agree the attending screwed up. I also agree that you were not dishonest. But I still maintain that what you did was wrong. Your school should have a process to address absences for students to attend interviews which is a different issue (missing educational time for the purpose of moving your career forward).



If we heard about this type of issue with someone we had interviewed this season, it absolutely would affect their ranking. And, my best residents wouldn't end up in this type of position, because they would recognize it's a problem and would have asked. In fact, it just happened recently -- someone was doing a highly specialized rotation with a specific faculty member. The faculty had an unexpected, sudden absence. They told the resident to "just read". Rather than just "stay home and relax", the resident contacted us and asked what to do. We came up with a reasonable plan.

I'm very surprised about the end of your story here, bringing a lawyer to your meeting. I'm glad it's worked out for you (although I worry you may not have seen the last of this, and may have escalated it). But for the sake of others who may be reading this, here's how this could / should have been handled by your school: They should have told the lawyer to take a hike. You have no legal right to legal representation at work/school. You're welcome to hire a lawyer to get advice, but they are not welcome in my office. Then, you and I discuss the issue. I happen to disagree with your lawyer, as I don't think it was the school's responsibility to check on every student to ensure that their rotation is going fine. I think it's the student's responsibility to report back to the school that there is a problem.

Your school blew this out of proportion (or, perhaps, your interpretation of what they were going to do was blown out of proportion). They should have made you make up the missed time in some way. You certainly shouldn't be dismissed over something like this, unless it was a repeated behavior after warnings. I'm suggesting you simply recognize why some would see this as a real problem, and recognize how you might address a problem like this in the future.

I agree entirely. And would echo that if how this played out somehow followed you to the interview trail that it would significantly affect your ranking.

 

[Goro]

I screwed up for doing exactly as was told by my attending?? Is that what you're saying? Could you explain how I screwed up more than the attending provided by my school? Seems like you would match perfectly with those at my school, admin who has to make work to keep busy. People with your line of thought could use a dope slap to fix their crooked thought process. There was nothing about my actions that was dishonest as I did exactly like I was told.

Don't worry, I won't do anything like this in the future. I will follow my attending the entire four week period from now on. Follow them home, to the store, restaurants, and so on.

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but you seem to have trouble understanding plain English.

You appear to have screwed up by falsifying your paperwork. At least, this is what I am interpreting from your posts, and other people are saying the exact same thing.

And I'm not an administrator, I work for a living...I teach medical students.

Now stop going loose cannon on us.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I agree entirely. And would echo that if how this played out somehow followed you to the interview trail that it would significantly affect your ranking.

Even if he didn't get a lawyer, I would bet it would still end up on his MSPE (if he were a 3rd year) or reported to the residency programs. He would be between a rock and a hard place one way or another.

 

[el_duderino]

My impression is also that you did literally falsify the paperwork, and I don't think bringing the lawyer will prove itself to have been a good move. By doing so, you put the administration in a very difficult position.

 

[emergentmd]

OP, what is done is done. Its time to move forward and that is all that matters. This is not a matter of right or wrong and we can debate this well beyond your 4th yr.

You only focus and goal is being allowed to graduate and then residency. Once you get this, nothing matters. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong.

You have very little power in this situation. No matter what you do, if admin wants to make an example of you, they will and you likely will have no way to change the final course.

Even if you take them to court, and in an unlikely chance you win, this will be years down the road.

I would talk with the PD (if they will meet with you), and beg for forgiveness.

 

[DBV]

Nice work OP.

Off topic: A cheating scandal happened at my school in the class below me. 4 students were accused and all similarly lawyered up. School completely dropped the issue. The pressure of a lawyer and legal action can be worth it.

 

[Stagg737]

Your program should have a policy about this. My program, for example, supports all residents in their search for fellowships or jobs. We consider interviews part of their professional development, and give them paid work time to attend them, including reasonable travel time. We might build a "board study" rotation if someone has so many interviews in a short period of time making a clinical elective unworkable. Regardless, we set a curriculum and hold them to some standard (completion of MKSAP questions, etc). Once we had someone who cancelled their interviews, and still took the days off to relax. That did not end well for them.

My school has a policy for this, it's basically any time we want to request an absence ever we have to submit an absence request form and get it approved by the clinical education admins. The thing is they can reject them anytime they want, so if a person ends up having a bunch of interviews in one month and none in other months, the school can say "too bad". For someone like OP who had 25 interviews, I can guarantee that if he requested time off for all of them, our school would have said it was too many and told him to just pick his top few choices. I know of friends at other schools which said their school didn't have clear cut policies and they just left and went on interviews when they needed to. Some of them got bad evals from attendings for missing too many days of the rotation for interviews. I normally hate adding a bunch of regulations, but I feel like this is one area where the ACGME should step in and create a standard policy for all med schools to follow.

I agree, and schools should have a workable policy that allows students to attend interviews. If a school has a "no missed days for interviews" policy and then has no way for students to actually take the time to interview, that's an impossible mess. But this has nothing to do with the OP's situation -- they didn't miss time to do some other important issue, they just took an extra week of vacation.

We don't know that though. The OP was given the week off as "vacation", we have no idea that he didn't go on interviews. Considering he said he had 25, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have had to take days off that week anyway. Legitimate question for you. Which do you think is worse: Having to ask your attending for 2 or more weeks worth of days of a rotation off in order to go on interviews or being given a single week off by the person in charge of you for the 4 weeks like OP was? Keep in mind, this is for med students, not residents.

I agree that there is a threshold. If there is nothing clinically happening and you want to send a student home early, that's fine. Giving them a complete day off I think is a bad idea, unless you have the permission of the clerkship director. A week off us unacceptable. In my residency program, we address this with a personal day policy. If a resident wants a day off for any personal reason, all they do is request it and as long as it doesn't cause any schedule problems, they get the day off. Each resident gets the same number of days to use, and the number of days that can be used in any block is limited.

Can't really say if it's the case for OP, but not all med schools have those policies for medical students or have some very vaguely stated policy saying "unprofessionalism will be punished". The problem is that different people obviously have different thresholds, as is apparent in this thread, so for schools which don't have a concrete policy in place, are the students expected to bombard their admins with questions? I did this at one point and it became apparent that they got annoyed very quickly, as their e-mails began to become less and less professional on their end.

Yes, this is for real. This wouldn't happen in my program, because people are assigned to a service not a person. So, if you're doing a GI elective and the person you were working with was taking the day off, there would be someone else to work with instead. Even during a big meeting (i.e. ACG), someone will be covering the service. Holidays are off, when the whole clinic is closed. But if a resident was on GI, all of the faculty are at ACG, and the one person left tells them "take 5 days off, because I'm too busy", then I expect the resident to send me an email to ensure that this is OK. At that point, we'd figure out a plan.

Again though, this is not your program and many medical schools assign their students to a specific attending and not just a service. When that happens, you often can't just ask another attending in the department if you can work with them. I did that at one point when my attending forgot to tell me he traded shifts at the last minute and was basically told to eff off (yes, the attending did actually drop the f bomb). During third year I don't think the time off is as big of an issue, as most people would spend that time studying for a shelf (so still productive education). I can understand 4th year informing clinical education though, as I think students should be doing much more hands-on work by that point. Thanks for taking the time to giving the long response, I think a lot of people appreciate it.

 

[nlax30]

So if you attending for the month said to you that tomorrow I am playing golf and you should take the day off and relax, you would really go to your program director and ask him if there was work to do?"

Is this for real? If my resident/student did that, I would never offer him a day off again b/c he is too dumb to appreciate it.

Depends:

1. If this happens as a med student rotating with a private/single physician, then you better believe I'm taking that day off.
2. If as a resident/fellow who has to document each hour for ACGME regs then no not necessarily, but a lot depends on culture of the program, what rotation I'm on, etc.

 

[nlax30]

I think he followed his Attending's instructions and did what most other med students would have done. Depending on the what is written in that school's rotation policy for students in regard to how to handle being given a day or so off by their supervising attending whether he did something "wrong" is probably more a technicality and may have been a poor choice on his part but certainly doesn't necessitate dismissal. Unfortunately several events occurred, Dr X leaving, Dr Y taking over and calling into question something, which lead to this getting blown out of proportion in my mind. I think the OP even mentioned that when Dr X told him to not come in that he asked about spending that time with another physician or provider there and was told no need. Hell, maybe Dr Y had some sort of prior grievance against Dr X and only made this an issue because this work got thrown on him to fill out and he felt put upon by Dr X..... who knows.

Whether or not this then is an issue of dishonest documentation is likely dependent on how the form is constructed and what their rotation policy says. If on the form it's strictly just "Rotation Dates" and is expecting something like, "Rotation 7 Jan 1 - Jan 31" then I think what he did was fine. If it was like mine and had rotation dates and a separate section for amount of days missed on the rotation and he put Zero then that could be an issue.

Bringing a lawyer was certainly an aggressive move and whether it helped or not only time will tell.

 

[Newyawk]

So wtf happened

 

[moisne]

Hopefully your communication with dr X is saved somewhere. Should this be a true and whole story, it is ridiculous.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Redpancreas]

So wtf happened

It's Saturday bro, he did the lawyer thing Friday. We'll all see.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

My gut reaction is that the Dean is being 100% honest, but in the same way that a rare side effect from a drug is also a "real possibility".

Meaning, one of the sanctions for academic dishonesty is dismissal, but what is the likelihood that it will be the sanction????? I suspect that the Dean is trying to get you to realize that you screwed up and is applying some tough love to smack you upside the head so you don't do anything like this in the future. In NYC we call that a dope slap.

I think we all know what "a very real possibility" means. "very real possibility" of happening means a high chance of happening.

if the dean were just saying that there is just a likelihood of happening, rather than a great likelihood of happening, he wouldnt have used the common phrase "very real possibility." Just "possibility" would've sufficed.

The fact of the matter is that those are very strong words. I was born and raised in NYC. That is not giving him a dope slap, that is aiming a loaded gun and telling him that there's a good chance it can all end because of what he did.

You might be right that it's just "tough love" for the good of topic creator - who knows? - but at the end of the day it's still toying with topic creator's life endeavor. You can't just **** around with somone's life, someone who dedicated years of grueling education and training on top of $200+

The stakes are unbelievably high for a student like TC. Medical school is a life changing endeavor and the whole physician pathway is a meat grinder as it is. This is the kind of stuff that can push people over the edge. For all the preaching about professionalism, compassion, well-rounded physicians, you'd think that a medical school could handle this in some other way instead of the ultimate shake down.

And people wonder why med students and doctors commit suicide, suffer from mental health issues, abuse substances, burn out, become jaded and cynical, get divorced, etc.

 

[68PGunner]

Good move by OP.

I'm normally the one who would take the ass smack and drive on. However, given the OP's situation in which the Dean is threatening him with dismissal, he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

The situation is beyond ridiculous considering that his supervisor is at fault. Unless the school has guidelines for these situations, the two sides should recognize the lack of transparency between either sides, arrange some remediation, and allow the student to graduate.

 

[Newyawk]

As OP pointed out, there seems to be a major disconnect in philosophy between school faculty and the rest of us. Is it surprising to see @aProgDirector @Goro and @mimelim , among others, against this guy? I guess we shouldnt be surprised given that OPs administration shares a similar mentality.

My question is - does the field select for these folks who are hyper-vigilant, over the top, and willing-to-end-a-young-mans-career over what is obviously (given the overwhelming responses in favor) a minor transgression?

 

[moisne]

In addition - I think maybe he can contact dr Y


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[JP2740]

As OP pointed out, there seems to be a major disconnect in philosophy between school faculty and the rest of us. Is it surprising to see @aProgDirector @Goro and @mimelim , among others, against this guy? I guess we shouldnt be surprised given that OPs administration shares a similar mentality.

My question is - does the field select for these folks who are hyper-vigilant, over the top, and willing-to-end-a-young-mans-career over what is obviously (given the overwhelming responses in favor) a minor transgression?

I think so. I will be an attending in three years and I would never ever consider this. However I’m also the type that would go into private practice and not try ascending the ladder, so I probably won’t work with students and residents. There is a personality difference between the ones who stay in academics and the ones who go. One of my co residents was having efficiency issues and her senior who will be chief resident next year basically sabotaged her entire rotation, gave her a ****ty eval, talked **** about her to the attending, and told our chiefs. I would’ve just sat w her everyday and worked on her weaknesses. He will be chief and I will go private practice. He’s the type of guy who would fire OP


Progdirector, who i actually really respect as a poster here and have asked advice many times, said that this was one of the most common reasons he terminates residents. I bet during orientation he does not explicitly bring up this situation as something you must tell someone in the admin. People don’t intuitively know that you have to report this situation. I bet he could’ve saved a lot of good residents over the years on this issue

I think we all know what "a very real possibility" means. "very real possibility" of happening means a high chance of happening.

if the dean were just saying that there is just a likelihood of happening, rather than a great likelihood of happening, he wouldnt have used the common phrase "very real possibility." Just "possibility" would've sufficed.

The fact of the matter is that those are very strong words. I was born and raised in NYC. That is not giving him a dope slap, that is aiming a loaded gun and telling him that there's a good chance it can all end because of what he did.

You might be right that it's just "tough love" for the good of topic creator - who knows? - but at the end of the day it's still toying with topic creator's life endeavor. You can't just **** around with somone's life, someone who dedicated years of grueling education and training on top of $200+

The stakes are unbelievably high for a student like TC. Medical school is a life changing endeavor and the whole physician pathway is a meat grinder as it is. This is the kind of stuff that can push people over the edge. For all the preaching about professionalism, compassion, well-rounded physicians, you'd think that a medical school could handle this in some other way instead of the ultimate shake down.

And people wonder why med students and doctors commit suicide, suffer from mental health issues, abuse substances, burn out, become jaded and cynical, get divorced, etc.

This isn’t working for CVS or something else (like a business job) where you can pick up and apply elsewhere and eventually be okay. The moment you get cut from med shook in forth yeAr with all that debt you’re essentially going to be down your entire life. I’m not saying you should never fire a student or resident - schools need to protect themselves and society against certain people becoming doctors. But for this action, to basically take someone and destroy his life, is just nonsense. It’s because these losers at the head of med schools get off on their power.

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

As OP pointed out, there seems to be a major disconnect in philosophy between school faculty and the rest of us. Is it surprising to see @aProgDirector @Goro and @mimelim , among others, against this guy? I guess we shouldnt be surprised given that OPs administration shares a similar mentality.

My question is - does the field select for these folks who are hyper-vigilant, over the top, and willing-to-end-a-young-mans-career over what is obviously (given the overwhelming responses in favor) a minor transgression?

I still don’t see how if I skipped work for a week because my immediate supervisor told me not to show up would be a “minor transgression”

 

[Spodermin]

Waiting for Christopher Nolan to stumble upon this and make a movie or something

 

[JP2740]

I still don’t see how if I skipped work for a week because my immediate supervisor told me not to show up would be a “minor transgression”

Agreed. It’s a non transgression

 

[Psai]

A lot of people being absurd here. OP is a MEDICAL STUDENT. He was told to stay home by his attending. His rotation definitely included that week where he was not in; there was no intentional dishonesty. No one should be expected to go out and look for a way to keep themselves busy. He didn't work weekends during that month, should he exclude them in his paperwork? Ridiculous.

School is 100% at fault and not only should they drop this matter, they should apologize to op for causing unnecessary stress by attempting to end his career over complete garbage.

 

[el_duderino]

Agreed. It’s a non transgression

I don't know where you people have worked in the past, but if I didn't show up a week because my (apparently brand new) immediate supervisor said he isn't starting until next week, I'd have been fired. I should have checked with his supervisor / my team lead / division head / whatever.

And if I filled out a time card later on that said I worked that week, I would have likely been docked pay and/or sued.