Freaking out a bit on choosing Pharmacy...

[nyc76]

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I choose to go to the pharm route as a career and am on schedule to apply next year. However reading the article on the front page of this site and through some of these threads it has me a little nervous first because of job prospects/saturation and also because of the downward pressure on wages.

So basically for the next 10 years what is a no bs assessment as to how job prospects look in retail for example in states like FL, NY and New England and what do those wages look like?

Also is there any way to know how the new Health Care plan will affect these areas?

In full disclosure I chose pharmacy as a career change primarily because of the wage potential. Granted I like the science and have done well getting the prereqs done. Ive researched the lifestyle and can handle all that but the wages and job prospects are very important to me obviously cuz I'm a bit older than your average undergrad.

I read this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics but also this from this site which contradict each completely. Ive also read through threads on these forums but its hard to get through the infighting clutter.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#oes_links

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/05/sdn-reports-pharmacist-job-outlook/

 

[Its Z]

Ok,

Do the math. In your article, it states their projection is 45,900 new pharmacist jobs (which I believe is an overestimation anyways) from 2008 to 2018. Looks promising...... right?

No, it's not. We are at a pace of graduating 10,000+ new pharmacists per year.. with 100,000 new pharmacists with only 45,900 new jobs, you'd be very optimistic to think that 5,000 pharmacists per year will retire, or choose to leave pharmacy one way or another.

So, what do you think the employment outlook will be like next 10 years?

 

[CUninja]

I choose to go to the pharm route as a career and am on schedule to apply next year. However reading the article on the front page of this site and through some of these threads it has me a little nervous first because of job prospects/saturation and also because of the downward pressure on wages.

So basically for the next 10 years what is a no bs assessment as to how job prospects look in retail for example in states like FL, NY and New England and what do those wages look like?

Also is there any way to know how the new Health Care plan will affect these areas?

In full disclosure I chose pharmacy as a career change primarily because of the wage potential. Granted I like the science and have done well getting the prereqs done. Ive researched the lifestyle and can handle all that but the wages and job prospects are very important to me obviously cuz I'm a bit older than your average undergrad.

I read this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics but also this from this site which contradict each completely. Ive also read through threads on these forums but its hard to get through the infighting clutter.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#oes_links

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/05/sdn-reports-pharmacist-job-outlook/

Not to be an @ss, but did you notice the multiple other threads on this very topic on the front page?

As for the question....you are at least four years from being licensed and with the volatility that pharmacy has had, many things are possible. Any guess is just that - a guess....and making an estimation on the job openings in a particular sector in a particular state five years down the road is next to impossible.

It is probable that there will be less openings and stagnant wages in retail for years to come nationwide, but that is just my guess.

Hope this helps.

 

[aboveliquidice]

Do yourself a favor, and skip reading the doom and gloom threads.

By now, you know we are in a recession and pharmacy is feeling it especially hard now. Is that the beginning and end of pharmacy - no. Whiners speak loudly on this forum; use this opportunity to discern what is BS whining and what you should legitimately be concerned about.

 

[BMBiology]

Do yourself a favor, and skip reading the doom and gloom threads.

By now, you know we are in a recession and pharmacy is feeling it especially hard now. Is that the beginning and end of pharmacy - no. Whiners speak loudly on this forum; use this opportunity to discern what is BS whining and what you should legitimately be concerned about.

It's OK to b*tch about pharmacy. It has changed a lot.

 

[nyc76]

Do yourself a favor, and skip reading the doom and gloom threads.

By now, you know we are in a recession and pharmacy is feeling it especially hard now. Is that the beginning and end of pharmacy - no. Whiners speak loudly on this forum; use this opportunity to discern what is BS whining and what you should legitimately be concerned about.

Well what I am concerned about is what a poster mentioned above. I keep noticing that more and more pharm schools are opening up which naturally means more graduates in that area. On top of that I currently see a Walgreens or CVS on every other corner. How much more growth is possible even when the economy gets out of the recession?

So basically if there werent all these new schools popping up I wouldn't be as concerned. But with the potential of a bunch of new pharmasits coming out to compete, I'm not an eco expert, but it seems to me that it will have downward pressure on wages and perhaps turn pharmacy into a 60-80k median job.

I also understand that the baby boomers will be retiring soon which I would think means they will need medication. Not sure how much of an effect that generation retiring will have on the need for pharmacists.

Then there is the new health care system which will bring in the millions who were out of the system.

OH and yes I have read to the threads that already exist but to be honest it gave me a headache trying to get through all the fighting back and forth and flaming.

 

[Thumper17]

Ok,

Do the math. In your article, it states their projection is 45,900 new pharmacist jobs (which I believe is an overestimation anyways) from 2008 to 2018. Looks promising...... right?

No, it's not. We are at a pace of graduating 10,000+ new pharmacists per year.. with 100,000 new pharmacists with only 45,900 new jobs, you'd be very optimistic to think that 5,000 pharmacists per year will retire, or choose to leave pharmacy one way or another.

So, what do you think the employment outlook will be like next 10 years?

Total pharmacist employment in the United States 2008 - 270,000

Assuming each pharmacist works an average of 40 years (an overly high estimate), that is ~2.5% retire in any given year (assuming that the ages are distributed relatively evenly for ease of math), that is 6,750 retiring every year.

So yes, it does look promising. It is not the boom days of the recent past, but pharmacy is by no means a daunting profession to be entering.

 

[BMBiology]

Well what I am concerned about is what a poster mentioned above. I keep noticing that more and more pharm schools are opening up which naturally means more graduates in that area. On top of that I currently see a Walgreens or CVS on every other corner. How much more growth is possible even when the economy gets out of the recession?

The answer is not much growth. When the real estate bubble bursted, Walgreens and CVS expansion plan also bursted along with it.

 

[PharmaTope]

you have every reason to be freaking out. at least you arent in pharmacy at this point. imagine after going through it and being in a situation where you are graduating with 200k in debt and NO JOB.


now thats scary!

 

[Its Z]

Total pharmacist employment in the United States 2008 - 270,000

Assuming each pharmacist works an average of 40 years (an overly high estimate), that is ~2.5% retire in any given year (assuming that the ages are distributed relatively evenly for ease of math), that is 6,750 retiring every year.

So yes, it does look promising. It is not the boom days of the recent past, but pharmacy is by no means a daunting profession to be entering.

Unfortunately your assumption is wrong...and not for ease of math but rather for in support of your argument. Hence your argument is wrong too. You can find the age distribution of pharmacists. Also, 10,000+ per year new pharmacist doesn't include influx of foreign pharmacists.

 

[rxforlife2004]

Total pharmacist employment in the United States 2008 - 270,000

Assuming each pharmacist works an average of 40 years (an overly high estimate), that is ~2.5% retire in any given year (assuming that the ages are distributed relatively evenly for ease of math), that is 6,750 retiring every year.

So yes, it does look promising. It is not the boom days of the recent past, but pharmacy is by no means a daunting profession to be entering.

With economy like this (and yet worse in future), nobody wanna retire. Even if they already retired, they still wanna go to work and earn some extra money.

You have to understand that when the economy was good, a good amount of pharmacists work part-time (because their spouses generated income also...so why need to work a lot...?). Now economy is bad, those part-time pharmacists will seek for more hours to cover for the loss of income. Also, the almost retired pharmacists will try to hold on as long as he could to help out his kid's mortgage, college tuition, etc...On the other hand, a bunch of laid off pharmacists are still hunting for jobs. Moreover, thanks to the pharmacy schools, we have 10,000+ new grads every year waiting in line for the jobs to be filled. HOw much jobs are openning with this economy? Very few!!!!!!!

Very depressing picture...but oh well...we're the ones painting it.

 

[PharmaTope]

With economy like this (and yet worse in future), nobody wanna retire. Even if they already retired, they still wanna go to work and earn some extra money.

You have to understand that when the economy was good, a good amount of pharmacists work part-time (because their spouses generated income also...so why need to work a lot...?). Now economy is bad, those part-time pharmacists will seek for more hours to cover for the loss of income. Also, the almost retired pharmacists will try to hold on as long as he could to help out his kid's mortgage, college tuition, etc...On the other hand, a bunch of laid off pharmacists are still hunting for jobs. Moreover, thanks to the pharmacy schools, we have 10,000+ new grads every year waiting in line for the jobs to be filled. HOw much jobs are openning with this economy? Very few!!!!!!!

Very depressing picture...but oh well...we're the ones painting it.

thats bc the pharmacy profession generally lays back and takes **** from everyone. customers demanding milk be rang out at the pharmacy (you know its true), no advancement, more schools.

you all should write letters to your former schools and say you will not donate any money to the pharmacy school or university unless they decrease class size.

 

[Trakker]

you all should write letters to your former schools and say you will not donate any money to the pharmacy school or university unless they decrease class size.

Private schools charge 35 k a year per student. Do you think a typical donation would match one student's tuition?

 

[nyc76]

What about the new health care plan? Wont that bring millions of people into the system and help the demand part of this equation?

 

[Its Z]

What about the new health care plan? Wont that bring millions of people into the system and help the demand part of this equation?

You have to look at this logically. The source of recent pharmacist shortage should be pointed at the real estate bubble and how commercial retail real estate expanded to accommodate the bubble growth. We now know that the real estate expansion has not only halted, the busted bubble halted the world economy. It was Wags, CVS, Wal-Marts of the retail giants that created the shortage and we knew the shortage would have been temporary.

What's not temporary but became a permanent damage to pharmacy is the new for profit schools cranking out PharmDs.

With retail pharmacies on every corner of our world, increase in prescription volume due to advances in drug therapy and aging boomers, corporations will employ more cost effective prescription delivery system such as mail order and central fills to provide chronic medications instead of employing more expensive labor; pharmacists.

Smaller pharmacy sector such as hospitals and industry never intended to grow nor will grow. It's always been stagnant and will remain so.

Of course there are opportunities for cream of the crop in every field...be it NFL, Medicine, Law....and yes including Pharmacy.

But the past 10 years of Pharmacy = easy money was nothing more than a mirage that caused a massive influx of prepharms and enterprising vulturesque educators who will eventually bring down the pharmacy profession.

 

[aboveliquidice]

Listen - the same 10 people post the same POVs for all of the doom and gloom threads.

For the sake of consistancy - can we just link to the previous posts...

Or better yet, point everyone to the Sticky and then lock the thread.

 

[rxforlife2004]

What about the new health care plan? Wont that bring millions of people into the system and help the demand part of this equation?

Do not rely on the healthcare plan. It won't help you...yet, or at least for a couple years. It's very very very slow to take in effect....

 

[nyc76]

You have to look at this logically. The source of recent pharmacist shortage should be pointed at the real estate bubble and how commercial retail real estate expanded to accommodate the bubble growth. We now know that the real estate expansion has not only halted, the busted bubble halted the world economy. It was Wags, CVS, Wal-Marts of the retail giants that created the shortage and we knew the shortage would have been temporary.

What's not temporary but became a permanent damage to pharmacy is the new for profit schools cranking out PharmDs.

With retail pharmacies on every corner of our world, increase in prescription volume due to advances in drug therapy and aging boomers, corporations will employ more cost effective prescription delivery system such as mail order and central fills to provide chronic medications instead of employing more expensive labor; pharmacists.

Smaller pharmacy sector such as hospitals and industry never intended to grow nor will grow. It's always been stagnant and will remain so.

Of course there are opportunities for cream of the crop in every field...be it NFL, Medicine, Law....and yes including Pharmacy.

But the past 10 years of Pharmacy = easy money was nothing more than a mirage that caused a massive influx of prepharms and enterprising vulturesque educators who will eventually bring down the pharmacy profession.

This is exactly what has me concerned....especially the part of more and more colleges offering PharmD. Then I see something like the Bureau of Labor Statistics and their 2010-2011 edition has rated as "excellent" the prospects of pharmacy growth through 2018.

 

[jGpharmD]

Do not rely on the healthcare plan. It won't help you...yet, or at least for a couple years. It's very very very slow to take in effect....

And will more than likely be voided in the next two years... More and more states are passing laws to block "Obamacare".

 

[nyc76]

Listen - the same 10 people post the same POVs for all of the doom and gloom threads.

For the sake of consistancy - can we just link to the previous posts...

Or better yet, point everyone to the Sticky and then lock the thread.

Above...you seem pretty knowledgable and level headed guy since you ignore the doom and gloom threads. Whats your feeling as to how the increase in colleges offering PharmD will effect the wages and prospects of future pharm grads?

 

[nyc76]

And will more than likely be voided in the next two years... More and more states are passing laws to block "Obamacare".

Actually I can tell you its extremely unlikely it will be voided because it would mean voiding a lot of other important things. I'm doing a career change, now I might be on the fence, to pharmacy but bcuz of my current profession I can tell you it wont get blocked no matter what the states try to do. So we need to start talking about the new health care system because it will be a reality.

 

[jinga]

Above...you seem pretty knowledgable and level headed guy since you ignore the doom and gloom threads. Whats your feeling as to how the increase in colleges offering PharmD will effect the wages and prospects of future pharm grads?

If wages are your primary reason for entering pharmacy I'd do something else.

Do you love pharmacy?
Do you love helping people and making a difference in patients' lives?
Would you be interested in starting your own business, doing an MBA, MHA, or a 1-2 year residency?

IDK what will happen to wages but that seems to be your focus here. I personally hate the new schools and am disappointed in the pharmacy organizations.

Many of my classmates were motivated to choose pharmacy SOLELY due to the earning potential. This is sad to me.

 

[BMBiology]

Above...you seem pretty knowledgable and level headed guy since you ignore the doom and gloom threads. Whats your feeling as to how the increase in colleges offering PharmD will effect the wages and prospects of future pharm grads?

Of course the answer is obvious. Yes, it is not the news everyone wants to hear but unfortunately, it is a reality.

Pharmacy has more opportunities than most professions but the reality is:

(1) you will be heavily in debt when you graduate even if you attend a public school
(2) opportunities will be limited even if you graduate from a top school since retail doesn't care where you graduated so you will be competing against who graduated from XYZ pharmacy school
(3) wages will drop and you may not be able to work in the city that you want
(4) you may have to do a residency to get a non retail position and even that may be very competitive

It may take some time but that is where the profession is heading. I am not trying to discourage anyone from entering the profession but just be honest with yourself and take those factors into consideration.

 

[Its Z]

This is exactly what has me concerned....especially the part of more and more colleges offering PharmD. Then I see something like the Bureau of Labor Statistics and their 2010-2011 edition has rated as "excellent" the prospects of pharmacy growth through 2018.

Your decision and your life.

And you're the only one who can decide what to do. Because none of us (including the BLS) will be liable for your future.

If I was a prepharm, I would go into it knowing there won't be a job waiting for me but I would have to compete heavily to find a job.

Oh wait... that's exactly how it was when I got into pharmacy 20 years ago... no promise of a job...and I would be fighting for a $40,000 per year position.

 

[nyc76]

Your decision and your life.

And you're the only one who can decide what to do. Because none of us (including the BLS) will be liable for your future.

If I was a prepharm, I would go into it knowing there won't be a job waiting for me but I would have to compete heavily to find a job.

Oh wait... that's exactly how it was when I got into pharmacy 20 years ago... no promise of a job...and I would be fighting for a $40,000 per year position.

Yeah I hear ya. I guess if I were 10 years younger I could do that and not sweat too much. Since this is a career change with potentially alot of money and time to be invested I've gotta be sure. I know I can only decide that so I'm trying to pick everyone's brain here to find which health field I can do. My first choice after doing my research was pharmacy followed by asst. anesthisologist...then the economy took a dump. So now I'm reevaluating everything.

 

[jinga]

Your decision and your life.

And you're the only one who can decide what to do. Because none of us (including the BLS) will be liable for your future.

If I was a prepharm, I would go into it knowing there won't be a job waiting for me but I would have to compete heavily to find a job.

Oh wait... that's exactly how it was when I got into pharmacy 20 years ago... no promise of a job...and I would be fighting for a $40,000 per year position.

Couldn't go to bed, Z. It's too bright out ha all this bbq talk got me hungry anyway. Gonna kill my abs.

Oh yeah...I saw on the BLS web-site that the BLS does NOT predict labor shortages and surpluses, only long-term...I'll look it up. Can't find it.

I remember seeing that on their web-site though.

Take home point: the BLS doesn't predict shortages and surpluses.

 

[rxforlife2004]

Do you love pharmacy?

Not really...sometimes i do, sometimes i don't. It's just a job that i can handle and be okay with it.

Do you love helping people and making a difference in patients' lives?


yes, but to some extent.

Would you be interested in starting your own business, doing an MBA, MHA, or a 1-2 year residency?

None.

IDK what will happen to wages but that seems to be your focus here. I personally hate the new schools and am disappointed in the pharmacy organizations.
Agree

Many of my classmates were motivated to choose pharmacy SOLELY due to the earning potential. This is sad to me

Just a reality. People do need money to survive and pay bill. Same as any jobs out there, unless u were born in a rich family. But if i was born in a rich family, i wouldn't even wanna go work...

 

[jinga]

Just a reality. People do need money to survive and pay bill. Same as any jobs out there, unless u were born in a rich family. But if i was born in a rich family, i wouldn't even wanna go work...[/QUOTE]

This is a good point. Sometimes I wish I was born into a rich family because I've had to work pretty hard to get here and have suffered. Hopefully it pays off in more ways than one.

Maybe if I had a rich family they could pay my way through school lol...

 

[Thumper17]

Unfortunately your assumption is wrong...and not for ease of math but rather for in support of your argument. Hence your argument is wrong too. You can find the age distribution of pharmacists. Also, 10,000+ per year new pharmacist doesn't include influx of foreign pharmacists.

Taken from here: http://www.aacp.org/news/media/Documents/PMP release.pdf

"48% of practicing male pharmacists are greater than 46 years of age and 30% are older than 60.

Nearly half of active female pharmacists are between the ages of 31 and 45 while 40% are between 46 and 60 and only 4% are older than 60.
​

Study results also reveal an aging population of pharmacists with 37% over age 55 in 2009, compared to 30% in 2004 and only 21% in 2000.​

​

​

​

"

Just looks to me like there are more Women graduating from pharmacy school than men and people are delaying retirement due to the bad economic conditions recently. I still don't see complete doom and gloom in any of those numbers.​

 

[PharMed2016]

I choose to go to the pharm route as a career and am on schedule to apply next year. However reading the article on the front page of this site and through some of these threads it has me a little nervous first because of job prospects/saturation and also because of the downward pressure on wages.

So basically for the next 10 years what is a no bs assessment as to how job prospects look in retail for example in states like FL, NY and New England and what do those wages look like?

Also is there any way to know how the new Health Care plan will affect these areas?

In full disclosure I chose pharmacy as a career change primarily because of the wage potential. Granted I like the science and have done well getting the prereqs done. Ive researched the lifestyle and can handle all that but the wages and job prospects are very important to me obviously cuz I'm a bit older than your average undergrad.

I read this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics but also this from this site which contradict each completely. Ive also read through threads on these forums but its hard to get through the infighting clutter.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#oes_links

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/05/sdn-reports-pharmacist-job-outlook/

I think pharmacy is still a viable career if you really have your heart set on it. The compensation in the future may not be as great and you might actually have to compete with others for a job like all the other professions. However, there is always a job if your willing to relocate to less populated centers.

 

[scoobygrl79]

Listen - the same 10 people post the same POVs for all of the doom and gloom threads.

For the sake of consistancy - can we just link to the previous posts...

Or better yet, point everyone to the Sticky and then lock the thread.

I understand it gets frustrating and all, but do you ever think to yourself..."gosh, these people seem to have decent supporting sources and/or have a bit of knowledge and experience to know what they are talking about?" I dunno, occasionally one gloomer pops up & seems to be pulling everything outta their a**, but the rest really don't, ya know? 😳 *shrug*

 

[willrocks]

To the OP:

I shall withhold my comments on your job prospects because there are simply too many long term factors for anybody to make a reasonable conclusion. It is a gamble, like any other profession aside from Medicine. I suggest gathering your data from reliable sources other than anonymous message boards and going into pharmacy if you genuinely enjoy it. There are several recent non-government reports on the future supply of pharmacists that a google search can turn up. The Pharmacist ADI is a good source too.

I once shared the same concerns as you and voiced them on these boards prior to gathering actual information, and I can assure you, you are wasting your time by asking people here what the future job prospects of Pharmacy are. As an above poster mentioned, there are about ten or so people that seem to enjoy routinely posting doom and gloom in every thread. Do not listen to them. You will go crazy reading some of the comments these people post. I did. I only now occasionally post on these boards to deter others like you from listening to them, as I once did. It seems like people come here to vent that they were not handed a job at graduation. This does not mean there will be no jobs in the future. Many here consider the philadelphia market to be completely over saturated as there are three schools, and complain that they cannot find intern positions. A few months ago I opened the yellow pages, called about twenty pharmacies asking if they had openings, and within a week I had three offers with excellent employers.
Likewise with a couple recent PharmD graduates that I know.

Relax. You will be a healthcare professional in America. Your first job may not be ideal, but life will be good. PM me if you have any other questions. I'm sure the doom and gloomers will rip my post to shreds. Ignore it.

 

[Its Z]

A few months ago I opened the yellow pages, called about twenty pharmacies asking if they had openings, and within a week I had three offers with excellent employers.

I guess as one of the 10 doom and gloomers... let me ask this important question.

You got 3 pharmacist job offers?

 

[scoobygrl79]

I once shared the same concerns as you and voiced them on these boards prior to gathering actual information, and I can assure you, you are wasting your time by asking people here what the future job prospects of Pharmacy are. As an above poster mentioned, there are about ten or so people that seem to enjoy routinely posting doom and gloom in every thread. Do not listen to them. You will go crazy reading some of the comments these people post. I did. I'm sure the doom and gloomers will rip my post to shreds. Ignore it.

This very supportive msg to the OP is very kind of you, I'm not trying to gloom, I just am speaking for myself when I say that I can appreciate the perspective from some of the said "gloomers" because the way I look at it is like this: They are preparing everybody for the worst case scenario. If it so happens that one falls into better luck w/their career than what was posted here, well then they can breathe a sigh of relief because they were prepared for the worst. If by chance it does come out exactly like they were warned, then great, they knew it was coming. Obviously what is the "realistic" picture is subjective, but it is nice to just know what you may have in front of you.

I guess as one of the 10 doom and gloomers... let me ask this important question.

You got 3 pharmacist job offers?

Case and point, the above gloomer has never been a downer about the profession without stating his sources & thoroughly explaining his logic. There are a few others who are actually living through the struggles and are generous enough to share their trials and tribulations. I just think its better to use all the talk as a tool rather than get so worked up over it. Of course, again, just me 🙂

 

[womp]

A few months ago I opened the yellow pages, called about twenty pharmacies asking if they had openings, and within a week I had three offers with excellent employers. Likewise with a couple recent PharmD graduates that I know.

Relax. You will be a healthcare professional in America. Your first job may not be ideal, but life will be good. PM me if you have any other questions. I'm sure the doom and gloomers will rip my post to shreds. Ignore it.

Dude, you're not even in pharmacy school yet. It's a little rich to tell others to ignore the advice of those like "Its Z" who are far further down this path than you.

 

[bear9288]

Actually I can tell you its extremely unlikely it will be voided because it would mean voiding a lot of other important things. I'm doing a career change, now I might be on the fence, to pharmacy but bcuz of my current profession I can tell you it wont get blocked no matter what the states try to do. So we need to start talking about the new health care system because it will be a reality.

you know what, healthcare "reform" will have a huge impact. the problem is, no one can really predict what kind of impact it will have.

bottom line is, there will be 33-35 million new people with health insurance; a good thing. the problem is, if the gov. healthcare plan becomes dominant, it will probably reduce drug reimbursement.

 

[aboveliquidice]

To the OP:

I shall withhold my comments on your job prospects because there are simply too many long term factors for anybody to make a reasonable conclusion. It is a gamble, like any other profession aside from Medicine. I suggest gathering your data from reliable sources other than anonymous message boards and going into pharmacy if you genuinely enjoy it. There are several recent non-government reports on the future supply of pharmacists that a google search can turn up. The Pharmacist ADI is a good source too.

I once shared the same concerns as you and voiced them on these boards prior to gathering actual information, and I can assure you, you are wasting your time by asking people here what the future job prospects of Pharmacy are. As an above poster mentioned, there are about ten or so people that seem to enjoy routinely posting doom and gloom in every thread. Do not listen to them. You will go crazy reading some of the comments these people post. I did. I only now occasionally post on these boards to deter others like you from listening to them, as I once did. It seems like people come here to vent that they were not handed a job at graduation. This does not mean there will be no jobs in the future. Many here consider the philadelphia market to be completely over saturated as there are three schools, and complain that they cannot find intern positions. A few months ago I opened the yellow pages, called about twenty pharmacies asking if they had openings, and within a week I had three offers with excellent employers.
Likewise with a couple recent PharmD graduates that I know.

Relax. You will be a healthcare professional in America. Your first job may not be ideal, but life will be good. PM me if you have any other questions. I'm sure the doom and gloomers will rip my post to shreds. Ignore it.

Don't misunderstand me.

The economy blows right now, and many are having trouble finding work. Walgreens is under a hiring freeze. This is a fact. Many others have put the brakes on hiring as well.

It's pointless to post about it every time the opportunity presents itself. We get it. We've heard the same information posted again and again for the past 3 or 4 months (in earnest). Take that lame **** elsewhere...

 

[PharmaTope]

you know what, healthcare "reform" will have a huge impact. the problem is, no one can really predict what kind of impact it will have.

bottom line is, there will be 33-35 million new people with health insurance; a good thing. the problem is, if the gov. healthcare plan becomes dominant, it will probably reduce drug reimbursement.

it will 100% NO DOUBT reduce it. i predict pharmacist salary drops in half. there is no way you can validate these salaries when you dont actually see patients and have an expanded scope of practice.

 

[willrocks]

Dude, you're not even in pharmacy school yet. It's a little rich to tell others to ignore the advice of those like "Its Z" who are far further down this path than you.

To the OP: Nothing is more absurd than to blindly listen to a person that you only know through an anonymous internet message board. Make your own decisions based upon verifiable sources.

And you are correct, my course equivalencies only translate to the fourth year of pharmacy school, though my higher degree has proven to be more respectable than a pharmD in the eyes of most pharmacists I have worked with over the past year.

 

[willrocks]

it will 100% NO DOUBT reduce it. i predict pharmacist salary drops in half. there is no way you can validate these salaries when you dont actually see patients and have an expanded scope of practice.

Good lord you are ignorant. To the OP and other prepharmers reading this thread, please ignore this post.

 

[willrocks]

I don't think many of you realize how incredibly depressing your doom and gloom can be, especially when there is not a shred of long term substantial evidence to support it. Perhaps you can spend your time improving the profession instead of coming here to complain/discourage others from entering it. Or perhaps, you just revel in spreading it. Either way, it's beyond me, though some of the ignorance around here never fails to crack me up.

Again, to the OP: Long-term, you will be fine. Short-term, the economy has hit pharmacy hard, like everything else.

 

[Its Z]

I don't think many of you realize how incredibly depressing your doom and gloom can be, especially when there is not a shred of long term substantial evidence to support it. Perhaps you can spend your time improving the profession instead of coming here to complain/discourage others from entering it. Or perhaps, you just revel in spreading it. Either way, it's beyond me, though some of the ignorance around here never fails to crack me up.

Again, to the OP: Long-term, you will be fine. Short-term, the economy has hit pharmacy hard, like everything else.

The purpose of my posts aren't to depress you. It is to inform you. At the same time, it's probably not the best idea to ignore some of us in an attempt to shy away from getting depressed. You get to see what's going on in your area. But I get to see the national trends working with hospitals from PNW all the way to New England states. I have witnessed hospital pharmacist positions dry up right in front of my eyes past 2 years.

Hospital pharmacist shortage occurred due to retail expansion. I will say it again... the retail expansion is over. There are too many schools. There will be an oversupply of pharmacists if not already.

But you have never heard me say don't do pharmacy. But what you have read from me is that I encourage further education beyond PharmD to put yourself in a more competitive position than opting for retail chain straight out of school.

I'm not a doomsayer. If anything, I'm the most optimistic person you'll ever meet in your life.

If you think I'm baseless, then how can you preach pharmacy will be ok in the long run? What are you basing this opinion on?

 

[PharmaTope]

The purpose of my posts aren't to depress you. It is to inform you. At the same time, it's probably not the best idea to ignore some of us in an attempt to shy away from getting depressed. You get to see what's going on in your area. But I get to see the national trends working with hospitals from PNW all the way to New England states. I have witnessed hospital pharmacist positions dry up right in front of my eyes past 2 years.

Hospital pharmacist shortage occurred due to retail expansion. I will say it again... the retail expansion is over. There are too many schools. There will be an oversupply of pharmacists if not already.

But you have never heard me say don't do pharmacy. But what you have read from me is that I encourage further education beyond PharmD to put yourself in a more competitive position than opting for retail chain straight out of school.

I'm not a doomsayer. If anything, I'm the most optimistic person you'll ever meet in your life.

If you think I'm baseless, then how can you preach pharmacy will be ok in the long run? What are you basing this opinion on?

He must have a crystal ball. ive watched staffing disappear. i hear people say they want clinical jobs and wont settle on a staffing.... im like ummm settle? you might want to hope for a staffing one.

 

[PharMed2016]

The purpose of my posts aren't to depress you. It is to inform you. At the same time, it's probably not the best idea to ignore some of us in an attempt to shy away from getting depressed. You get to see what's going on in your area. But I get to see the national trends working with hospitals from PNW all the way to New England states. I have witnessed hospital pharmacist positions dry up right in front of my eyes past 2 years.

Hospital pharmacist shortage occurred due to retail expansion. I will say it again... the retail expansion is over. There are too many schools. There will be an oversupply of pharmacists if not already.

But you have never heard me say don't do pharmacy. But what you have read from me is that I encourage further education beyond PharmD to put yourself in a more competitive position than opting for retail chain straight out of school.

I'm not a doomsayer. If anything, I'm the most optimistic person you'll ever meet in your life.

If you think I'm baseless, then how can you preach pharmacy will be ok in the long run? What are you basing this opinion on?

Z, you summed it up in a nutshell. This is pretty much what my professors and the pharmacist that I've work with have been telling me. If you go into pharmacy, don't be expected to be handed a plum job because while they are out there... they are few and far in between. Do something that will make you stand out and not expendable.

 

[tungsten87]

But you have never heard me say don't do pharmacy. But what you have read from me is that I encourage further education beyond PharmD to put yourself in a more competitive position than opting for retail chain straight out of school.

quick question: do you ever see pharmd/phd grads apply for hospital jobs? mainly pharmd's who also have phds in clinical pharmaceutical sciences, pharmacogenomics, pharmacoeconomics/outcomes. how would you look at this type of applicant for a job?

 

[Its Z]

i have worked with several BS. PhDs... and more with MS... they were not treated any differently ...RPh is an RPh.
im sure its different in research arena.

 

[rxlea]

The boomers need to go.

(Retire, that is)

 

[Its Z]

i aint a boomer. old timer is.

 

[PharmaTope]

The boomers need to go.

(Retire, that is)

that doesnt solve the issue of all these schools opening and pumping out graduates. that is like a 1 yr band-aid.

the problem comes down to the schools and graduates. unfortunately since it is so desired now

1.) bachelor degree should be required like in medicine (you dont see too many without it going to medicine)

2.) also, there needs to be an expansion of the scope of practice of pharmacy. immunizations are not going to save your ass. you need some sort of collaborative practice agreement. not just that, but add on 1 more year to pharmacy to give you the abilities that PA's have. That way you are not only a drug expert, but you can also SHOW IT...... If you want that role but not be forced into it.

3.) there is a shortage of quality primary care, perhaps looking at that and trying to get involved there with an expanded scope is what will improve pharmacy. immunizations is not going to save your ass neither is MTM.

4.) tighter restrictions on schools. Make the programs with 2 different routes of study if there is an expanded practice. 1 route can be a clinically based route along with patient care focused, the other can be a retail orientated route

5.) higher standards for schools. If you are going to offer microbiology, LAB MUST BE MANDATORY, none of these classes with no labs, that is just silly.

6.) Limit class sizes, no more diploma mills

 

[scoobygrl79]

I don't think many of you realize how incredibly depressing your doom and gloom can be

Oh my 🙁 I am very sorry all the speculation has really gotten you down. From what I have witnessed, I do not believe any of them just loiter around waiting for the next hope/dream they can sabotage. If you think about it, they are usually provoked by somebody starting a "is there gloom/doom?" thread. Then they post their honest point of views, making them not any different than those who post more cheerfully.
I can really sympathize w/doing what you need to do to keep yourself mentally healthy, though. 👍