Freshman Trying to Learn More About DOs

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premedgunner12

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Hi,

So I'm a freshman and have been looking at DO programs, and was basically trying to gather some more information about them. From what I've read so far, it seems like there is a stigma against DOs because from what I understand the schools are a lot easier to get into compared to medical schools that offer an MD degree. Also, people say that it's harder to match into the really competitive programs because of one's degree, so here (aside from general info...links work for the general info part and I'll keep doing my own research) are my question:

1. How bad is the stigma really? Is it just overblown?

2. Although it is very, very, very early since I'm a freshman in college, I'm thinking about doing either cardiac surgery/invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, so how hard is it to get those kinds of positions from a DO school?

3. What are the more well-regraded osteopathic schools? What kind of GPA/MCAT is needed for the top tier schools?

4. I've read that a large reason why people avoid the DO route is that when applying for residencies, they are less likely to get the position that is geographically preferable to them (i.e. instead of NYC, they might get stuck in a completely different place). Do DOs have a hard time practicing anywhere in the country they want AFTER residency training? I mean, although it would kind of suck to be stuck in a place I dislike for residency, my main goal is to be a doctor in whatever specialty I want, so I can wait 6 years even until I'm done with my residency to live in a place that I really want.

The reason I'm interested in DO schools is because I think the philosophy of avoiding the use of medication is a philosophy I really like, but if they are so badly discriminated against, I guess I shouldn't walk down that path, right?

sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advance
 
premedgunner12 said:
The reason I'm interested in DO schools is because I think the philosophy of avoiding the use of medication is a philosophy I really like, but if they are so badly discriminated against, I guess I shouldn't walk down that path, right?
Click to expand...

DOs have no such philosophy. Not since about 1930.
 
Yea but in certain cases you have an alternative to medication that MDs do not. For a simplistic example to treat chronic headaches you can try OMM first, before telling them to take aspirin.
 
Sounds like naturopathy to me.
 
Try using the search button. You will come up with a lot of responses to your questions. Good Luck.
 
premedgunner12 said:
Hi,

So I'm a freshman and have been looking at DO programs, and was basically trying to gather some more information about them. From what I've read so far, it seems like there is a stigma against DOs because from what I understand the schools are a lot easier to get into compared to medical schools that offer an MD degree.
Click to expand...

What's an MD?
 
premedgunner12 said:
Hi,

So I'm a freshman and have been looking at DO programs, and was basically trying to gather some more information about them. From what I've read so far, it seems like there is a stigma against DOs because from what I understand the schools are a lot easier to get into compared to medical schools that offer an MD degree. Also, people say that it's harder to match into the really competitive programs because of one's degree, so here (aside from general info...links work for the general info part and I'll keep doing my own research) are my question:

1. How bad is the stigma really? Is it just overblown?

2. Although it is very, very, very early since I'm a freshman in college, I'm thinking about doing either cardiac surgery/invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, so how hard is it to get those kinds of positions from a DO school?

3. What are the more well-regraded osteopathic schools? What kind of GPA/MCAT is needed for the top tier schools?

4. I've read that a large reason why people avoid the DO route is that when applying for residencies, they are less likely to get the position that is geographically preferable to them (i.e. instead of NYC, they might get stuck in a completely different place). Do DOs have a hard time practicing anywhere in the country they want AFTER residency training? I mean, although it would kind of suck to be stuck in a place I dislike for residency, my main goal is to be a doctor in whatever specialty I want, so I can wait 6 years even until I'm done with my residency to live in a place that I really want.

The reason I'm interested in DO schools is because I think the philosophy of avoiding the use of medication is a philosophy I really like, but if they are so badly discriminated against, I guess I shouldn't walk down that path, right?

sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advance
Click to expand...


I can only give you my observation and opinion but you can definitely search through old threads about the subject. Also check out some of the stickies on top of the pre-osteo forum.

1. I find that majority the stigma with DO's lies with pre-medical students and maybe even some older retiring doctors. DO's are the same as MD's with the except of OMM. You will find that when you are DO's are treated the same as MD's when it comes to practicing medicine.

2. The residencies that you listed above are all attainable to you as a DO graduate. Getting into those residencies with the exception of EM, are going to be hard whether you apply as a DO or a MD because there is usually more applicants per spots available. I know everyone says that as a DO its harder to get into certain specialties like surgery, but I don't believe that's entirely true. When you think about it, there are 4x more students graduating from MD than DO students so of course there's not going to be a lot of DO's in MD residency programs and DO's also have their own residency programs.

3. Well DO schools are not ranked so the best DO school will be entirely up to YOUR needs as a DO applicant/student. I can give you my OPINION of what I believe are better schools but we all know that opinions are like bootys, we all have one.

4. I don't believe that's the reason why people avoid the DO route, because YOU choose where you want to apply for residency and therefore you can CHOOSE NOT to apply to residencies that are way out in the boonies aka rural regions. (that was a LONG sentence lol). In terms of getting a job, I would say no DO's don't have a hard time, but there maybe still some discrimination against DO's in areas where DOs are scarce.

Hope this helps a little.
 
1. How bad is the stigma really? Is it just overblown?

It is overblown....you see it primarily from pre meds. My UG which has a strong allopathic school..........has a DO as the chair of one of the Clin Ed Departments and associate professors in various departments whom are DO's. In addition one of the doctors I shadowed whom was a DO taught at Harvard Med School. Hows that for stigma? These are just two small examples. In my opinion the majority don't have a stigma at all.

2. Although it is very, very, very early since I'm a freshman in college, I'm thinking about doing either cardiac surgery/invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, so how hard is it to get those kinds of positions from a DO school?

There's a big difference between Cardiology and EM/Anesthesia. Cards will be significantly tougher. There a plenty of DO's that specialize in Anthes/EM every year. IMO this would not be a stretch to get into as a DO while Cards would be more difficult.

3. What are the more well-regraded osteopathic schools? What kind of GPA/MCAT is needed for the top tier schools?

Well regarded would depend on whom you ask. PCOM is a fan favorite on SDN. While in my opinion there are other schools just as good. CCOM, OSUCOM, DMU, and KCOM, are all also very strong if you ask me.

I would say a 3.5 cum and a 27+ MCAT would make you competitive at pretty much every school. Realize that outstanding EC's , secondary essays, and a strong PS will also be important.

4. Question 4. There is some truth to this but that is based on DO residencies. Many DO's match into Allopathic residencies which give you the same selection as MD's for the most part (being that your CV/board scores are on par for the specialty you're trying to get into).

Best of luck and stay motivated!!
 
Last edited:
there is a stigma against DOs because from what I understand the schools are a lot easier to get into compared to medical schools that offer an MD degree.
Click to expand...

experience undergrad.

you'll be taking bio, chem, orgo, and physics which will be tested on the MCAT.
The practical difference between 'easier to get into' is a couple of points on the MCAT. To be competitive at MD schools you need say a 32, to be competitive at DO a 27 would be good.
 
DannMann99 said:
experience undergrad.

you'll be taking bio, chem, orgo, and physics which will be tested on the MCAT.
The practical difference between 'easier to get into' is a couple of points on the MCAT. To be competitive at MD schools you need say a 32, to be competitive at DO a 27 would be good.
Click to expand...

In addition if you look at acceptance rate and applicant/matriculant most DO schools have the same percentage. So in that aspect they are just as competitive.
 
I know a DO who is now a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills. It's what YOU make it out to be.
 
Kirby is a dermatologist, not a plastic surgeon. There used to be a show on TLC though called 'Bodywork' which then moved to Discovery Health and was called 'Plastic Surgery: Beverly Hills' which featured Dr. Julie Edween, a facial plastic surgeon and DO. www.dredween.com
 
JaggerPlate said:
Kirby is a dermatologist, not a plastic surgeon. There used to be a show on TLC though called 'Bodywork' which then moved to Discovery Health and was called 'Plastic Surgery: Beverly Hills' which featured Dr. Julie Edween, a facial plastic surgeon and DO. www.dredween.com
Click to expand...

Sorry, we don't have cable anymore. Besides that, I hadn't seen the show since first season. But thanks for the correction.

How exciting can watching a derm guy be, anyway? I mean, some of the plastic surgery people are nuts, but watching some 14 year-old get a script for Accutane does not intrigue me.
 
DannMann99 said:
experience undergrad.

you'll be taking bio, chem, orgo, and physics which will be tested on the MCAT.
The practical difference between 'easier to get into' is a couple of points on the MCAT. To be competitive at MD schools you need say a 32, to be competitive at DO a 27 would be good.
Click to expand...

A 32 is a little high to be making the cutoff for "competitiveness". Obviously the higher your MCAT, the more competitive, but its not like if you have below a 32 you would be wasting your money.. If the rest of your app is solid (like REALLY solid) and you are at least 27+, you will be compettive. Just check out the "MCAT scores 27-29 with interviews" thread. Or even better, check out the " acceptances with MCAT <30 thread."
 
Cp22kjer said:
In addition if you look at acceptance rate and applicant/matriculant most DO schools have the same percentage. So in that aspect they are just as competitive.
Click to expand...

Ive looked at that quite a lot as well and it seemed the DO schools hovered around a 12-15% acceptnace rate while the MD schools were like 7-10% on average. Its still ridiculously hard to get in to either type of program, but I'm just saying. And you can always find schools that dont fall within the range I gave. If you are OOS and you apply to the oklahoma state DO school, the acceptance rate is like 1%....so if you are OOS and you get in there you must have been a pretty special applicant.
 
Chocolate Bear said:
Sorry, we don't have cable anymore. Besides that, I hadn't seen the show since first season. But thanks for the correction.

How exciting can watching a derm guy be, anyway? I mean, some of the plastic surgery people are nuts, but watching some 14 year-old get a script for Accutane does not intrigue me.
Click to expand...

Hahahah ... yeah the medical stuff he does is never the focus of his segments - unlike Rey, Diamond, and the other PS guys. His role on the show is more about his life, involvement with a lot of LA clubs, dating some other reality star from the reality show he was on etc. When he does do stuff, it's all his cosmetic ... 'liquid facelifts,' laser tattoo removal, etc.
 
Cp22kjer said:
2. Although it is very, very, very early since I'm a freshman in college, I'm thinking about doing either cardiac surgery/invasive cardiology, anesthesiology, emergency medicine, so how hard is it to get those kinds of positions from a DO school?

There's a big difference between Cardiology and EM/Anesthesia. Cards will be significantly tougher. There a plenty of DO's that specialize in Anthes/EM every year. IMO this would not be a stretch to get into as a DO while Cards would be more difficult.
Click to expand...

What about general surgery, or surgery residencies in general? Are they hard to get as a DO?
 
ryserr21 said:
Ive looked at that quite a lot as well and it seemed the DO schools hovered around a 12-15% acceptnace rate while the MD schools were like 7-10% on average. Its still ridiculously hard to get in to either type of program, but I'm just saying. And you can always find schools that dont fall within the range I gave. If you are OOS and you apply to the oklahoma state DO school, the acceptance rate is like 1%....so if you are OOS and you get in there you must have been a pretty special applicant.
Click to expand...

Where did you get this 12-15% acceptance rate? It's not that high. At WVSOM, 2 years ago, there were 2770 applicants, from which 200 were admitted...that's a 7.2%. Now I bet there are near 3000 applicants a year if not more, bringing the acceptance rate down to near 6%. Most other schools are like this too. To make the 12% acceptance rate legit, for a school that accepts 100 people/year, you'd need 833 applicants. Most schools receive 3000-4000 applications.

Just trying to add some figures to backup what we're talking about here. There is only like 28 DO schools and about 130 MD schools. Even though on average more people apply to MD schools than DO schools, it all averages out, and both schools are competitive in terms of acceptance rates.
 
koojo said:
Where did you get this 12-15% acceptance rate? It's not that high. At WVSOM, 2 years ago, there were 2770 applicants, from which 200 were admitted...that's a 7.2%.
Click to expand...

They accept a lot more than the number that attends.
 
premedgunner12 said:
What about general surgery, or surgery residencies in general? Are they hard to get as a DO?
Click to expand...

Hard to get into no matter who you are. AOA surgery residencies are very competitive for DOs. And ACGME surgery residencies are very competitive for MDs and even more so for DOs.

You can get info on AOA residencies (these are DO-only) at opportunities.osteopathic.org. You can get info on ACGME residencies (open to MDs and mostly to DOs) at http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2997.html.

I strongly recommend Iserson's books on how this all works. After you get the context, you can find updated statistics on the web.
Get into Medical School - a Guide for the Perplexed
Getting into a Residency

Best of luck to you.
 
koojo said:
Ok, so where does one find these 'acceptance' percentages?
Click to expand...

Variety of sources. Usually has Applied Instate/out of state, interviewed Instate/out of state, Accepted Instate/Out of State and then Matriculated.

It just depends of the school wants to give it. I'm not defending the numbers posted because I have no idea. I thought they were fairly close percentage wise. Thats all I know.
 
koojo said:
Where did you get this 12-15% acceptance rate? It's not that high. At WVSOM, 2 years ago, there were 2770 applicants, from which 200 were admitted...that's a 7.2%. Now I bet there are near 3000 applicants a year if not more, bringing the acceptance rate down to near 6%. Most other schools are like this too. To make the 12% acceptance rate legit, for a school that accepts 100 people/year, you'd need 833 applicants. Most schools receive 3000-4000 applications.

Just trying to add some figures to backup what we're talking about here. There is only like 28 DO schools and about 130 MD schools. Even though on average more people apply to MD schools than DO schools, it all averages out, and both schools are competitive in terms of acceptance rates.
Click to expand...

Here are the statistics from USNews for Western U:

Total admissions data 3204 applied and 501 were accepted.

Thats 15.6%.

I never stated that DO schools weren't competitive in terms of acceptance rates. In fact, i clearly stated this WAS not what I was implying. I also stated that you can find schools that are not within the range. But for the schools that I looked like at, that seemd to be the acceptance rate.
 
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