Friend who failed a semester at MUA in Nevis

[drpep]

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Hey guys,

I have a friend who failed a semester at the Medical University of the Americas. He is in his second year and was about to come back to the states to do rotations in August.

I feel terribly bad for him and was wondering what you guys think is the best course of action.

His father is extremely upset. He knows all the material but is just a horrible test taker. He is currently looking to see if he can transfer anywhere to not lose any time.

What do you guys think is the best course of action?

Thanks everyone.

Also, before anyone asked why he went Caribbean. He was going to physical therapy school but in January was kind of pressured by parents to go to medical school. Said he could take a year off and apply or go to Caribbean in August. Again, was pressured by parents to go ahead and start. Parents are Indian.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Bad test taker, eh? Does he realize that everything he's going to be evaluated by from now on will be, you know, a test? He'd probably be better off to stick with MUA if he can since he's already there, but he'd do well to get his act together fast. I doubt any US schools, MD or DO, would be thrilled to take a Carib transfer who'd failed a semester.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hey guys,

I have a friend who failed a semester at the Medical University of the Americas. He is in his second year and was about to come back to the states to do rotations in August.

I feel terribly bad for him and was wondering what you guys think is the best course of action.

His father is extremely upset. He knows all the material but is just a horrible test taker. He is currently looking to see if he can transfer anywhere to not lose any time.

What do you guys think is the best course of action?

Thanks everyone.

Also, before anyone asked why he went Caribbean. He was going to physical therapy school but in January was kind of pressured by parents to go to medical school. Said he could take a year off and apply or go to Caribbean in August. Again, was pressured by parents to go ahead and start. Parents are Indian.

Well, the obvious best course of action would be to talk to his school about what he needs to do to retake the semester. No point trying to transfer coming off a failed semester. Fix it and move on from there. Now doing poorly and coming from a non-big-3 caribbean school might end up being a difficult hurdle come residency time, but at this juncture he should do what he can to fix things and at least graduate with an MD.

Having pushy parents is not going to be a sympathy point for anyone -- folks of med school age are considered adults and deemed to have made their own beds.

 

[drpep]

Bad test taker, eh? Does he realize that everything he's going to be evaluated by from now on will be, you know, a test? He'd probably be better off to stick with MUA if he can since he's already there, but he'd do well to get his act together fast. I doubt any US schools, MD or DO, would be thrilled to take a Carib transfer who'd failed a semester.

Yeah he is one of my best friend's older brother. i have spoken to him personally and some of his classmates, and apparently he teaches them the material.

anxiety gets the best of him and this is something he needs to figure out on his own and he knows that.

he is looking to transfer to still finish by august like he had already planned to start rotations. is this a bad idea?

wouldn't losing a semester be like losing a whole year since rotations start in august?

 

[Perrotfish]

Yeah he is one of my best friend's older brother. i have spoken to him personally and some of his classmates, and apparently he teaches them the material.

anxiety gets the best of him and this is something he needs to figure out on his own and he knows that.

he is looking to transfer to still finish by august like he had already planned to start rotations. is this a bad idea?

wouldn't losing a semester be like losing a whole year since rotations start in august?

1) Did he fail out or does he have the opportunity to repeat the semester?

2) Is he paying for this with loans? If so how much?

3) If his finished preclinicals, has he taken a practice step 1? If so what is he getting? If not, why not?

 

[drpep]

Well, the obvious best course of action would be to talk to his school about what he needs to do to retake the semester. No point trying to transfer coming off a failed semester. Fix it and move on from there. Now doing poorly and coming from a non-big-3 caribbean school might end up being a difficult hurdle come residency time, but at this juncture he should do what he can to fix things and at least graduate with an MD.

Having pushy parents is not going to be a sympathy point for anyone -- folks of med school age are considered adults and deemed to have made their own beds.

yeah i definitely do not expect any sympathy for him. it was just a reason he went carib, thats all. he decided premed in january, took the mcat in march, got a 26 (again, family issues here, but no need to talk about that), and went to a non big 3 carib school.

so retaking the semester is pretty much the best option?

i hear grades first two years don't matter anyways. i am guessing this is not true for those coming from the carib?

 

[drpep]

1) Did he fail out or does he have the opportunity to repeat the semester?

2) Is he paying for this with loans? If so how much?

3) If his finished preclinicals, has he taken a practice step 1? If so what is he getting? If not, why not?

he has the opportunity to repeat.
his father is paying for school so no loans. but in the interest of saving him money, is looking to see if it is possible to avoid the retake.
and this was the last semester left of preclinicals. not sure what he is getting on practice or if he has taken any at all.

 

[MilkmanAl]

anxiety gets the best of him and this is something he needs to figure out on his own and he knows that

Anxiety under pressure...I hope he goes into a specialty that doesn't provide a lot of high-stress situations. The last thing we need is a doctor flipping **** when someone calls a code.

he is looking to transfer to still finish by august like he had already planned to start rotations. is this a bad idea?

I don't really see how that would even be possible at this point.

wouldn't losing a semester be like losing a whole year since rotations start in august?

Not necessarily. Rotations here are organized into semesters, and I'm sure many other places do it similarly.

 

[drpep]

Anxiety under pressure...I hope he goes into a specialty that doesn't provide a lot of high-stress situations. The last thing we need is a doctor flipping **** when someone calls a code.
I don't really see how that would even be possible at this point.
Not necessarily. Rotations here are organized into semesters, and I'm sure many other places do it similarly.

he wants to do family medicine.

i am sure this is for the best, considering the anxiety and the poor grades comin from the carib

 

[Perrotfish]

he has the opportunity to repeat.
his father is paying for school so no loans. but in the interest of saving him money, is looking to see if it is possible to avoid the retake.
and this was the last semester left of preclinicals. not sure what he is getting on practice or if he has taken any at all.

I guess the question on everone's mind is whether to tell him to just drop out entirely. An MD is a worthless degree without residency and he needs to do well on a series of standardized tests to get one. Between the school he's coming from and the failure on his record applying already seems like a nightmare. On the other hand no one wants to advise him to quit when he might end up fixing his problems and doing well.

If I was him, and I had a break before retaking those preclinicals, what I would do:

1) Get medicated and get therapy for the anxiety and study issues.

2) Study for step 1 and take a practice test or three to see if I could at least come close to passing. If I could I would retake the semester. If I couldn't even come close I would walk away from medical school and go be a PT/nurse/whatever.

 

[Perrotfish]

Anxiety under pressure...I hope he goes into a specialty that doesn't provide a lot of high-stress situations. The last thing we need is a doctor flipping **** when someone calls a code.

If we got rid of everyone in medical school that suffered from mental health issues we'd lose half the profession and 95% of this website. Anxiety is very common in medicine, as are the therapy and medication to deal with it.

 

[drpep]

Yeah maybe he should take some medication. I feel just saying you are a bad test taker is one thing, but if you are at the point where you can orally recite any of the material and actually teach the material to your classmates, who do better than you, there is some other issue here.

He is confident he wants to finish. I kind of want to recommend other options to him, but I am afraid that would just sound way to harsh and I feel bad enough for him as it is. Just two months ago I was telling him I got waitlisted at Penn (because he asked me to keep him updated) and how sad I was... now this 🙁

he has pretty much been like an older brother to me. ever since high school, any time i had any worry about anything school related, i would go to him. it absolutely crushes me to see this.

 

[MilkmanAl]

If we got rid of everyone in medical school that suffered from mental health issues we'd lose half the profession and 95% of this website. Anxiety is very common in medicine, as are the therapy and medication to deal with it.

So true. I'm not saying that anxiety is bad. It's probably even helpful in really insane situations (like codes). It's crippling anxiety that's not doing anyone any good. If you can't pull it together well enough to get through routine tests, life as a doctor will be pretty rough.

 

[Dr Gerrard]

wow i always knew it was hard to get in from the caribbean, but i thought for something like family practice it wouldn't be a big deal. only time will tell i guess. and step I!

there is nothing worse than seeing one you look up to for advice and as a role model not doing so well though. it seems like he works really hard and how well he knows the material. test taking skills is something that was and will always be something that is necessary, so you can't even blame the system.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Having pushy parents is not going to be a sympathy point for anyone -- folks of med school age are considered adults and deemed to have made their own beds.

Not saying he necessarily deserves "sympathy points." But you can't just dismiss the cultural differences between a med student with American parents and a med student with Indian parents.

 

[drpep]

yeah thats pretty much it gerrard. i still get kind of sad thinking about it. i hope everything works out for him more than anything and i feel like such a tool complaining i didn't get in to upenn and columbia to him.

medstudentwanna, i definitely agree with you. no sympathy expected at all, but law2doc, your statement surprises me at how little you consider cultural differences, something that im sure is so important in practicing medicine

 

[VisionaryTics]

yeah thats pretty much it gerrard. i still get kind of sad thinking about it. i hope everything works out for him more than anything and i feel like such a tool complaining i didn't get in to upenn and columbia to him.

medstudentwanna, i definitely agree with you. no sympathy expected at all, but law2doc, your statement surprises me at how little you consider cultural differences, something that im sure is so important in practicing medicine

Diseases don't care so much about cultural differences (except for Ashkenazi Jews...diseases hate them). Medicine won't stop and wait while this guy tries to figure out how to pass the buck along. Tell him to either sack up and take care of business or get out of a field that will eat him alive if he spends his life trying to blame other people for his problems.

If he really is that dysfunctional, tell him to take some time off and get a psychiatric work-up.

BTW, this guy needs to cut the umbilical cord. Who cares how upset his father is. That's not the issue here.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Diseases don't care so much about cultural differences

Yeah, but patients do. FYI.

 

[drpep]

Diseases don't care so much about cultural differences (except for Ashkenazi Jews...diseases hate them). Medicine won't stop and wait while this guy tries to figure out how to pass the buck along. Tell him to either sack up and take care of business or get out of a field that will eat him alive if he spends his life trying to blame other people for his problems.

If he really is that dysfunctional, tell him to take some time off and get a psychiatric work-up.

BTW, this guy needs to cut the umbilical cord. Who cares how upset his father is. That's not the issue here.

wow bro, are you serious right now?

first of all, you are trying to practice in one of the most culturally diverse places in the world.. and then you say caring about cultural differences doesn't matter?

and never once did i say he is blaming other people. maybe you could use some reading comprehension skills. im sure diseases care about that.
-- he said himself that he is a bad test taker and needs to work on it.

and the entire father thing was just to explain why he chose caribbean so people don't come in and ask why he didn't do DO or try again. it has nothing to do with the topic. again... reading comprehension.

you could use some tact too by the way. might come in handy

 

[Mr hawkings]

Not saying he necessarily deserves "sympathy points." But you can't just dismiss the cultural differences between a med student with American parents and a med student with Indian parents.

what the.......

This is not going to end well

 

[VisionaryTics]

Yeah, but patients do. FYI.

I understand that. My point was that the particulars of his future clinical practice won't be any different because he happens to come from an Indian background, and the fact that the OP mentioned it made it seem like it was an excuse.

To respond to OP, I understand cultural diversity. I don't understand how it applies here. The guy is struggling in medical school. He's in a difficult position. But you mention his parents about five times in your opening post. In fact, it was the first thing you mentioned after the facts of the situation, even before the point about your friend being a poor test taker.

My point was that his parents don't matter here. This is about him taking care of an issue in his life. I'm sorry if I came off as brusque. I think your friend is in a tough spot, and I agree that he is partly there because of his parental pressure. However, that, more than anything, should be a sign to him that he needs to take ownership of his life. I'm not saying he isn't; he acknowledges his test anxiety.

 

[Perrotfish]

...

 

[hrandani]

I definitely get what you're saying about the parents, but strict controlling parents isn't unique to India. Cultural competency is a two way street. I'll never understand why that's always swept under the rug.

I used to be all touchy feely empathetic, you don't understand what it's like blah blah blah, but the older I get I just want to scream at people. More often than not they cause their own problems.

If you follow the customs of your culture and they're ******ed, the blame doesn't lie with the culture. Like Law2doc said, he's an adult now. He should act like one.

I mean seriously. While all of us understand what it's like to be held back by external forces that you have no control over, if my ERAS essay, transfer application, grocery store clerk application, whatever - if it's all about how my life's problems held me back, complaining about my parents isn't going to make anyone stand up and say,"this guy looks like a responsible, stand up, dependable character." Ridiculous.

I really get sick of the mythology "I come from culture x / disadvantaged subgroup Y, you have no idea what kind of problems I have." Humanity is pretty universal. Most of us have dealt with life changing events or set backs. Those of us who move on in life also tend to be those who don't point fingers.

This is all just a side rant though. Best of luck to your friend, mrpep. I hope he pulls through.

 

[smq123]

wow i always knew it was hard to get in from the caribbean, but i thought for something like family practice it wouldn't be a big deal. only time will tell i guess. and step I!

Actually, it's getting harder for Caribbean grads to get into FM. We interviewed a bunch of people from the Caribbean at our small FM program (and they had very good grades for all 4 years, good Step 1 scores, etc.), but didn't rank them that highly. We found out later that a lot of them didn't match ANYWHERE. The increasing number of people from American medical schools is making it harder for IMGs/FMGs to get in.

 

[RapplixGmed]

I'm really sorry to hear that this has happened to your friend and theres some huge mistakes that have been made that seem hard to overcome. I know its painful to see somebody list them here but it might help others who look over this thread:

1. If you get a 26 on the MCAT, the solution to this problem is the RETAKE and do better rather than go to an unranked Caribbean school. "wasting" a year in reapplying is not that big of a deal compared to the potential of not matching anywhere by going to a carribean school after spending all that money.

2. Parents don't know what they're talking about. His parents may well have ruined his life by forcing him to go to any med school that would accept him, especially after a rushed application cycle. Culture has nothing to do with this; an adult doesn't sacrifice himself just because his parents tell him to. When you are older than 18 yo, you take responsibility for what you do and you should not be able to blame your parents for any of your problems.

3. If you have a psychiatric problem that may inhibit your performance in medical school, get it solved before the start of the first class.

4. If you are a bad test taker, you are in trouble from the start and should spend 300% of your time working on that. No matter how well you know or you think you know the material, there is no objective way to prove that you do unless you are able to pass their test. I suck at tests, but I fix that problem by doing as many practice questions as I can.

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Heres some stuff that I think about your friend's situation
1. Accept that nobody will take him as a transfer student. Every school requires that you be a student in good standing (aka passing all courses) at a med school. US med schools will rarely accept Caribbean students if they have superstar step 1 scores.
2. Figure out how he can remediate the block that he failed. Maybe he'll just be able to take an alternate final test and be able to pass it. Even if he has to redo the year, then do it. If the school allows him to take time off to fix his problems before the remediation period, even better. Remember the goal now isn't to do everything as fast as possible because clearly that is failing. The goal is to get him to be functioning better than he was previously when this grind starts again.
3. Get the anxiety problem checked by a physician. Get it solved now.
4. What is the step 1 score? It all depends on this now. If it is good, he has a good chance. If the step 1 is low, focus everything on getting a good score on step 2.
5. Test anxiety can be helped A LOT by doing practice problems. he should be doing a ton of practice problems from the relevant sections in qbanks before every preclinical test to get him over the anxiety and gauge his preparation.

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Remember, no matter how bad it gets, it won't be as bad as some people have it. There was a guy who came to talk to us in our psychiatry class who dropped out in his 4th year of med school, eventually became a crack addict and drug dealer, became homeless, went through rehab, and now has to keep a parrot by him all the time to talk to or he'll go nuts. He is still talking about wanting to go back to med school and finishing his medical education. It can never be that bad.

 

[James Sacket]

Summer remedial? Repeat the year? Those are his options.

 

[drpep]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think one option he is considering is transferring to Windsor. I'm not sure its the best idea, but I really think finances are becoming a problem and this would be the best option for that.

 

[Depakote]

Actually, it's getting harder for Caribbean grads to get into FM. We interviewed a bunch of people from the Caribbean at our small FM program (and they had very good grades for all 4 years, good Step 1 scores, etc.), but didn't rank them that highly. We found out later that a lot of them didn't match ANYWHERE. The increasing number of people from American medical schools is making it harder for IMGs/FMGs to get in.

This year 1000 American Medical Graduates failed to scramble... I don't know the numbers for FMGs/IMGs but I suspect there's a trickle down effect for failing to match.

It's going to get tougher and tougher over the coming years for every residency applicant and the lowest guys on the totem pole are going to be the hardest hit.

 

[islandCrazy]

I hear the same excuse from half of my classmates as a Caribbean student.
Stop blaming the parents. I don't care about what culture they came from because there are overbearing parents in every culture. Whenever I hear that excuse I always ask them what would their parents have done if they said no, the answer is normally cut them of financially. Okay at 23 years old I sure your capable of supporting yourself.
If they transfer within the Caribbean school system it won't get any easier. Every semester there are people transferring all over the place. It takes them a few weeks to realize that its even harder at the low-tier schools because the professors and resources are just not as good.

Your friend has a better chance sticking at MUA or maybe they should take a semester off. During that semester they should question their desire for medicine, if it is more so for their parents then they need to quit.

Taking the Caribbean route is full of tons of struggles and definitely not worth it if your doing it to please anyone else.

 

[RapplixGmed]

This year 1000 American Medical Graduates failed to scramble... I don't know the numbers for FMGs/IMGs but I suspect there's a trickle down effect for failing to match.

It's going to get tougher and tougher over the coming years for every residency applicant and the lowest guys on the totem pole are going to be the hardest hit.

Wow! I didn't know it had gotten that bad. Where do you find statistics on the scramble?

 

[Depakote]

Wow! I didn't know it had gotten that bad. Where do you find statistics on the scramble?

This is what they quoted us at our Match Day. I'm not sure where that's published.

 

[RapplixGmed]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think one option he is considering is transferring to Windsor. I'm not sure its the best idea, but I really think finances are becoming a problem and this would be the best option for that.

Look at their matchlist:
http://www.windsor.edu/residency.htm

Wow. Tell your friend to stay away... stay far far far away. From a brief look at their website, they look like a glorified USMLE boot camp.

 

[richse]

he has the opportunity to repeat.
his father is paying for school so no loans. but in the interest of saving him money, is looking to see if it is possible to avoid the retake.
and this was the last semester left of preclinicals. not sure what he is getting on practice or if he has taken any at all.

I've read this thread and I'm still trying to understand how he thinks transferring would allow him to avoid retaking the semester? I understand if he has test anxiety, but that line of reasoning seems like a complete failure of logic.

 

[Perrotfish]

Look at their matchlist:
http://www.windsor.edu/residency.htm

Wow. Tell your friend to stay away... stay far far far away. From a brief look at their website, they look like a glorified USMLE boot camp.

I gotta admit, I'm impressed with the honesty of that match list. Not many schools would list results like that

 

[drpep]

I've read this thread and I'm still trying to understand how he thinks transferring would allow him to avoid retaking the semester? I understand if he has test anxiety, but that line of reasoning seems like a complete failure of logic.

haha not sure. apparently he talked to someone from the school though. he will have to retake one class and then can take an exam to exempt the other one. he can then fit the one class into his last semester?

i don't really know how it all works. im just a premed lol

 

[dude1344]

Look at their matchlist:
http://www.windsor.edu/residency.htm

Wow. Tell your friend to stay away... stay far far far away. From a brief look at their website, they look like a glorified USMLE boot camp.

This website design is epic.

 

[DrDrummer]

This website design is epic.

Nothing screams "Attend our prestigious university" like "index" in the Title field.

 

[sunset823]

Diseases don't care so much about cultural differences (except for Ashkenazi Jews...diseases hate them). Medicine won't stop and wait while this guy tries to figure out how to pass the buck along. Tell him to either sack up and take care of business or get out of a field that will eat him alive if he spends his life trying to blame other people for his problems.

If he really is that dysfunctional, tell him to take some time off and get a psychiatric work-up.

BTW, this guy needs to cut the umbilical cord. Who cares how upset his father is. That's not the issue here.

I'm with this guy. The guys' 'umbilical cord' is his financial dependence on his parents, which is leading to them running his life. I have a healthy relationship with my (Indian) parents (which, btw, is completely irrelevant), and have been honest with them about a few academic struggles I've had. But since they haven't paid a cent for my education since undergrad, they aren't biting my head off and haven't made a single decision for me. They don't need to, because I know that it's my mountain of debt that I need to pay off. Financial responsibility = personal responsibility.

The other thing is when this guy got a 26 on his MCAT, he should have realized THEN that he had test anxiety and went and gotten treatment THEN, before starting med school. Granted, some people who are really smart get undiagnosed ADHD until M1 or M2 year, but if this is a problem he'd always had he shouldn't have waited this long. Again, personal responsibility.

This may seem callous, but it's hard for me to be sympathetic with the guys this decision made, both to go to the Carib in the first place (why didn't he just tell his parents to f off and go to PT school, where he would have been happier) and then his academic performance when he knew full well it stemmed from a psych disorder. At the very least he should repeat the semester, he shouldn't expect everything to go his (or mommy and daddy's) way at this point. And if he has to get some loans to repeat the semester and cut off from his parents, that is likely a blessing in disguise.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

This year 1000 American Medical Graduates failed to scramble... I don't know the numbers for FMGs/IMGs but I suspect there's a trickle down effect for failing to match

It should probably be noted that that number may include DO students and those students might have scrambled into AOA residencies. I hope so anyway. It's sad to think that that many AMGs will be unemployed this summer.

 

[Law2Doc]

Not saying he necessarily deserves "sympathy points." But you can't just dismiss the cultural differences between a med student with American parents and a med student with Indian parents.

There comes a time in every person's life when they have to take hold of their own life. It really doesn't matter what culture you come from. This is particularly true if you are going into a profession which, though cognizant of cultural differences amongst patients, does quite a bit to erode cultural differences amongst its rank and file, to break them down and create a very homogeneous product.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
i hear grades first two years don't matter anyways. i am guessing this is not true for those coming from the carib?

They don't really matter IF YOU PASS. If you fail, then yes, that matters. And yes, coming from the caribbean, you had better be a better applicant than your US counterparts because there's simply no reason any residency would ever look at an offshore grad with credentials worse than they could get from interested US grads.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

There comes a time in every person's life when they have to take hold of their own life. It really doesn't matter what culture you come from.

No one said that isn't true. It was your dismissive nature I commented on.

This is particularly true if you are going into a profession which, though cognizant of cultural differences amongst patients, does quite a bit to erode cultural differences amongst its rank and file, to break them down and create a very homogeneous product.

For as long as I live, I doubt I'll ever understand your joy in bragging about the very worst parts of medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

No one said that isn't true. It was your dismissive nature I commented on.

For as long as I live, I doubt I'll ever understand your joy in bragging about the very worst parts of medicine.

You've created some opinion of me and now read a lot into what I say rather than the actual words I'm saying. If I expand on my thoughts I get attacked for long posts. If I don't, I get attacked for being dismissive. Such is life on a public board, and the downside of having posted a lot over the course of my adventure.

As for "bragging about the worst parts of medicine", I don't really intend to do this, and I think you are ascribing some sentiments to me that I didn't intend. I tell things the way I see them. Some you will agree with (when you get to this stage), some you won't. And that's cool with me. It's a fantastic field, but a grueling, very conservative one. And there are some very good reasons for some things to be the way they are beyond some collective drinking of the Koolaid, which I think you can only appreciate once you get to a certain point on this road. Anyhow, best of luck in your career path.

 

[ar2388]

i very much agree with you Law2Doc.. esp "It's a fantastic field, but a grueling, very conservative one."
even small things like what you wear to your med shcool interview shows this to be a conservative field (thankfully nto as bad as finance where you must wear a white blouse and black or navy suit lol. we had a few more options).

i think your friend, OP, needs to either decide if he wants to stick it out in med school and take the risk of not doing anything with his MD degree from not well known or respected caribbean school or maybe cut his losses now and take the knowledge he learned and go to PA school in the states? i think PA school in the states would be a lot easier in terms of job placement. also, arent starting PA salaries like 80K if not more? and no issues with residency where they pay you 50K for working 80 hours a week. he should have realized a long long time ago ( yes with that MCAT score) that medicine in the states may not be for him. there are standardized exams every 10 years once youve made it past the hurdle of med school and residency and they never end. being a bad test takers means jack ****. sorry. either work on this issue or dont go into a field that requires exams ALL THE TIME.

russian parents are not any better than indian parents and they also dont quit nagging even if they dont pay for your education. i remember telling my parents my doubts about med school and potentially wanting to go into a chem PhD program. they were not happy but its not as if they could have forced my hand otherwise. i thankfully found my path to medicine after the excitement of growing pretty crystals wore off.

 

[MDofIre]

Uh blatantly obvious step number one would be to start making his own decisions and living his own life and telling mommy and daddy thanks (in all sincerity) but I am old enough to live my own life now.

Step number 2, drop out of med school. Seriously, this would be by far his best move. Cut his losses, he is going to have a hard time getting into rotations in the US and very very hard time getting any sort of residency (which are becoming harder to come by) in match or scramble with a blemish like this on his record. It does not sound like he wants to be in med school and it shows. Tell him to drop out and do something he wants to do.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Step number 2, drop out of med school. Seriously, this would be by far his best move. Cut his losses, he is going to have a hard time getting into rotations in the US and very very hard time getting any sort of residency (which are becoming harder to come by) in match or scramble with a blemish like this on his record. It does not sound like he wants to be in med school and it shows. Tell him to drop out and do something he wants to do.

Well, I still think even if he's not going to be competitive for residency (as he has dug himself a very deep hole), there is still some value at this point to play out the game and come away with an MD. It at least helps fill the huge gap in his resume that he's otherwise going to have to explain at every job interview for the rest of his life. Coming away with a degree will be regarded as more of a positive, and he can spin it as deciding he didn't want to practice rather than that he wasn't competitive for a residency. Then he can go get a non-physician job someplace that thinks it's cool that they can list him as MD on their brochures.

 

[Lokhtar]

It could also be an 'in' to a research or another career. I mean if you've already spent two years tuition, it's probably worth sticking around even if you won't get into a residency. You may find jobs in other industries where just having the initials will help you with your resume.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

i very much agree with you Law2Doc.. esp "It's a fantastic field, but a grueling, very conservative one."
even small things like what you wear to your med shcool interview shows this to be a conservative field (thankfully nto as bad as finance where you must wear a white blouse and black or navy suit lol. we had a few more options).

I think some people take this whole conservative thing WAY too far. It's because others constantly preach about how conservative the field is over and over again. I'm not saying it isn't more conservative than other fields, but seriously, it's not bad. Even for med school interviews, like you pointed out, there were med students whose heads exploded when I said I was going to wear a red suit. "It's a conservative field, they'll reject you, OMG!!!!" Didn't hurt me in the least. Med school administers, residents, and attendings are people, like the rest of us. Some are extremely conservative, some don't care. The field as a whole isn't as conservative as so many like to say, especially with the younger generation of docs.

 

[Law2Doc]

... Didn't hurt me in the least. ...

Unless you got acceptances from 100% of the places you interviewed, you will never know if this statement is true. In fact, even at the places you got in, you will have no way of knowing whether this wasn't the one sticking point that made it a close call decision that almost kept you out of med school.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Read these blogs

http://2medschool.blogspot.com/

http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

http://6medschool.blogspot.com/