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from medicine to Derm
- Thread starter samer333
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IM residency will not help much if at all.Perhaps if you were at superstar at a TOP IM program you could do it.Otherwise you will face the same competition for spots as everyone else.Without contacts you wont get in.Research for a year may help if you get to know the right people but without a strong application otherwise even that is no guarantee.
I would consider sticking with IM and look for a fellowship in Rheum or Allergy
its easier than trying to get Derm at this point for you.
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Well skindoc knows much more than me in regards to derm. (I am a lowly 4th year medical student not even applying to derm). I thought Id give you an opinion.
You are in a big hole because of your scores. I dont know if you are amg or fmg (if you are an fmg, you are in a deeper hole). If there is nothing else you are willing to do other than derm, and you want "to go for derm" then you will prob have to spend 1 or more years after your IM residency doing derm research. You should be in a top IM program and you have to be the most stellar resident. Derm is tough as hell to get into. I would recommend you target an institution you have a reasonable chance in getting into (which is none (sorry to be mean but lets be realistic, if theres a derm residency in your institution, I would focus on that first). Focus on one program...you may have to do research there for a few years. If you do choose to do research, PUBLISH, PUBLISH and PUBLISH. Get to know ppl in the department. Hell do research with the chairman or the PD. Work in their lab. Do not work in any other lab except for these two ppl, and PUBLISH. Since research is mostly conducted at University Hospitals, you will have to do research there, which I would think would be more competitive for community programs. Thus, you will be competing against stellar applicants from across the country!!!!!! Invite the PD/Chairman over to your house. Get to know them as people. If you show them you are genuinely interested, and you work hard and you really busted your arse for them doing research or whatever it takes, you are in.
Well these are my opinions and take it as that. Again, I am not applying for derm, but I thought Id lend you some advice. Dont mean to sound mean, but you have to be realistic. You dont want to be busting your arse for years only later to find out you still cant get in. With the time you wasted doing research or whatever, you could be practicing and making some money.
Good luck in whatever you do.
You are in a big hole because of your scores. I dont know if you are amg or fmg (if you are an fmg, you are in a deeper hole). If there is nothing else you are willing to do other than derm, and you want "to go for derm" then you will prob have to spend 1 or more years after your IM residency doing derm research. You should be in a top IM program and you have to be the most stellar resident. Derm is tough as hell to get into. I would recommend you target an institution you have a reasonable chance in getting into (which is none (sorry to be mean but lets be realistic, if theres a derm residency in your institution, I would focus on that first). Focus on one program...you may have to do research there for a few years. If you do choose to do research, PUBLISH, PUBLISH and PUBLISH. Get to know ppl in the department. Hell do research with the chairman or the PD. Work in their lab. Do not work in any other lab except for these two ppl, and PUBLISH. Since research is mostly conducted at University Hospitals, you will have to do research there, which I would think would be more competitive for community programs. Thus, you will be competing against stellar applicants from across the country!!!!!! Invite the PD/Chairman over to your house. Get to know them as people. If you show them you are genuinely interested, and you work hard and you really busted your arse for them doing research or whatever it takes, you are in.
Well these are my opinions and take it as that. Again, I am not applying for derm, but I thought Id lend you some advice. Dont mean to sound mean, but you have to be realistic. You dont want to be busting your arse for years only later to find out you still cant get in. With the time you wasted doing research or whatever, you could be practicing and making some money.
Good luck in whatever you do.
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Hi, may I ask, why you want to go into derm?
Is it the money, the lifestyle or just that you can't stand IM? Or all of the above?
Either way, If you answer yes to ANY of the above except for "I love DERM and can't live without it" then find a subspecialty that would give you the same lifestyle or close to derm.
someone suggested Allergy fellowship. This is one of the hidden secrets of medicine. They have good lifestyle and do well financially. I think it is a one or two year fellowship.
But my main point is that you should figure out why you want derm.
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Actually, due to funding issues, it'll be next to impossible to get a Derm Residency if you complete a full IM Residency. While suggestions from other posters are certainly helpful, I'm afraid that you're likely to experience, that even with published research, there'll be other and stronger applicants, who ALSO has published research. Additionally, if you're currently studying for Step 3, that tells me that you're a IMG/FMG. That additionally lowers your chances, to be honest, because there's so many highly qualified AMG's (and the few FMG's who actually get a spot almost invariably have both research and clinical experience in Derm from their home countries).
Sorry if I seem harsh, but it really looks like an uphill battle...
Sorry if I seem harsh, but it really looks like an uphill battle...
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don't worry. you can do everything but MOHS with an IM license alone.
i've come across a number of both IM and FPs who do derm procedures, 3 of them who primarily focus on it. look in your yellow pages. see the IM docs and FPs who do it. then call their offices to try and get an appointment. you'll see very quickly that lawsuits or not, they're good enough for the lay public.
i talked to them about malpractice rates in comparison with their derm colleagues. of the 6 GPs i talked to who were doing derm, 4 had been in primarily derm practice for >10 years and each had been sued once, and all of them settled out of court.
the lawsuits seemed more about the emotional status or unrealistic expectations of their patients (read: customers) than the actual medical issues. of course, that's only what they told me. one of them was a personal friend, but who knows what goes through your head or what you'll tell yourself when dealing with a lawsuit.
i only know two dermatologists well enough to know about their malpractice rates etc. one of them had been around forever and told me he'd 'gotten into a scrape or two' but it never had come to an actual courtroom. the other was relatively fresh out of residency, and other than being named in a lawsuit once and dismissed, he had never had any legal issues.
the plural of anecdote isn't anecdata, but i'll trust these guys over residents, pre-meds, and med students. i tried looking in the medico-legal literature, but was unable to find anything that more systematically looked at this situation. just derms writing editorials complaining about GPs and GPs in the family medicine journals complaining about how territorial dermatologists were.
bottom line is: unless you're dead set on mohs, needing derm training to do derm procedures is a non sequitir. there's an artificial deficit of dermatologists, and because
the profitable parts of dermatology are subject to market forces, FPs and IMs who are tired of treating diabetes and otitis media will come to someone with CME to fill in the botox/pulsed laser/chemical peel market deficit. especially in non-saturated markets (read: crapholes in the midwest).
i've come across a number of both IM and FPs who do derm procedures, 3 of them who primarily focus on it. look in your yellow pages. see the IM docs and FPs who do it. then call their offices to try and get an appointment. you'll see very quickly that lawsuits or not, they're good enough for the lay public.
i talked to them about malpractice rates in comparison with their derm colleagues. of the 6 GPs i talked to who were doing derm, 4 had been in primarily derm practice for >10 years and each had been sued once, and all of them settled out of court.
the lawsuits seemed more about the emotional status or unrealistic expectations of their patients (read: customers) than the actual medical issues. of course, that's only what they told me. one of them was a personal friend, but who knows what goes through your head or what you'll tell yourself when dealing with a lawsuit.
i only know two dermatologists well enough to know about their malpractice rates etc. one of them had been around forever and told me he'd 'gotten into a scrape or two' but it never had come to an actual courtroom. the other was relatively fresh out of residency, and other than being named in a lawsuit once and dismissed, he had never had any legal issues.
the plural of anecdote isn't anecdata, but i'll trust these guys over residents, pre-meds, and med students. i tried looking in the medico-legal literature, but was unable to find anything that more systematically looked at this situation. just derms writing editorials complaining about GPs and GPs in the family medicine journals complaining about how territorial dermatologists were.
bottom line is: unless you're dead set on mohs, needing derm training to do derm procedures is a non sequitir. there's an artificial deficit of dermatologists, and because
the profitable parts of dermatology are subject to market forces, FPs and IMs who are tired of treating diabetes and otitis media will come to someone with CME to fill in the botox/pulsed laser/chemical peel market deficit. especially in non-saturated markets (read: crapholes in the midwest).
