From Premed to Predental; help?

[DrPresident]

Hey everyone.

SO.

I have been premed for 3.5 years in college (currently senior in last semester of college!). I've done some shadowing, both medical and dental, and have decided I want to pursue a career in dentistry instead. With that being said, I know everything about applying to medical school and how my stats are relative to medical school requirements, but I am not sure about dental schools. So I am hoping that you guys and girls may be able to tell me how I am doing, what I may be missing, and perhaps even a couple of schools I may be able to apply to (I live in the north-east).

Here goes:

cGPA 3.42; sGPA ~3.35
As far as GPA is concerned, was ~3.1 freshman year, has been 3.5 and up since. I know that was a good thing for medical schools.

When I graduate, I will have 6 credits/1 full year of independent research in genetics (writing intensive).

I have extensive work history in healthcare: pharmacy tech, summer camp EMT/admin, PCA/nurses aide in assisted living home, 3 years volunteering as an Advanced EMT, crew chief for EMS service (leadership?), TA for EMT class.

I will have 1 gap year, and I plan to do work with AmeriCorps.

If I am accepted after 1 gap year, will be 22 years old.

I haven't taken the DAT yet.

LOC: 2 from professors, 1 from a paramedic, will have 1 from general dentist. These will be sent in the form of a pre-health professions composite letter.

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So I know how this all adds up for medical school admissions, but I don't know about dental school. While I have looked up admission requirements for schools in my area, GPA and DAT isn't the whole story. Any help is appreciated.

On a side note, I currently will graduate with a full year of english classes. This was a premed standard. From what I have read about some schools (i.e. Boston U, Tufts), they don't require a full year of english, but rather 1 semester of english plus either another english course or writing intensive course, or only one english course in general, respectively. Is this pretty standard across the board? Would you recommend taking the full year of english? I will have 24 credits this semester with english, 20 without. The lack of an extra course I don't need would help. My pre-health adviser is the definition of useless... so I'm turning to you guys.

Thank you so much. Good luck to all!

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A.

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[TheEpicFruitCake]

GPA is not good, but I guess it's passable. Mean GPA for dental school was a 3.58 for your reference. Hard to tell without DAT if you have a chance. My friend has pretty much the exact same GPA with a 21 DAT. Received 2 interviews (out of 20). She applied to only lower stats schools. Right now IMO you wouldn't get accepted. Need more dental experience to show you're committed to dentistry, not just a "I couldn't get into med school so I'm going to go dentistry because I think its easier" person.

 

[changtw]

IIRC, while I was filling out supplemental applications/pre-requisite forms, quite a few of the schools I applied to required 2 English (comp) courses - one lower level and one higher level. If you're looking to broaden the number of schools you will qualify for, it might be best to finish off the full year of English (other SDN members should be able to chime in on this).

Since you're getting an LOR from a general dentist already, I'm assuming you have done shadowing alright? Do you know roughly how many hours you have thus far?

I must say your EC's seem great. At least to me, they seem interesting, and it makes me want to get to know more about you. Although, the chances are high that when interviews come around, interviewers will want to know why they so heavily lean towards med-related activities. For myself, I had 3 years of medical assisting vs 2.5 years of dental assisting, and I was asked the question "why dent over med?" often (answer: due to flexibility in schedule and financial need). Just be prepared to answer and you'll be OK.

With a DAT slightly above average (>/= 20), I can see you getting plenty of interviews.

 

[DrPresident]

GPA is not good, but I guess it's passable. Mean GPA for dental school was a 3.58 for your reference. Hard to tell without DAT if you have a chance. My friend has pretty much the exact same GPA with a 21 DAT. Received 2 interviews (out of 20). She applied to only lower stats schools. Right now IMO you wouldn't get accepted. Need more dental experience to show you're committed to dentistry, not just a "I couldn't get into med school so I'm going to go dentistry because I think its easier" person.

For your reference, average GPA for Tufts class of 2019 was 3.37 c, 3.26 s, BU was slightly higher. There are many dental schools below Tufts. I am not applying to Harvard, UCSF/LA, etc. I am not switching because I "cannot get into medical school", and I have shadowed, and will have more shadowing experience. I thought making that clear would stop people from throwing that one at me.

I am aware of my standings with GPA, and I have made it clear that I know GPA/DAT is not the whole story to an application and would like information as to the rest of my application and where that puts me. That is the whole point of this thread - how is my whole application, and some further suggestions.

Considering the Tufts stats, and stats of the numerous schools below Tufts, I expect your friend had other flaws in her application or applied to schools out of her reach.

 

[DrPresident]

IIRC, while I was filling out supplemental applications/pre-requisite forms, quite a few of the schools I applied to required 2 English (comp) courses - one lower level and one higher level. If you're looking to broaden the number of schools you will qualify for, it might be best to finish off the full year of English (other SDN members should be able to chime in on this).

Since you're getting an LOR from a general dentist already, I'm assuming you have done shadowing alright? Do you know roughly how many hours you have thus far?

I must say your EC's seem great. At least to me, they seem interesting, and it makes me want to get to know more about you. Although, the chances are high that when interviews come around, interviewers will want to know why they so heavily lean towards med-related activities. For myself, I had 3 years of medical assisting vs 2.5 years of dental assisting, and I was asked the question "why dent over med?" often (answer: due to flexibility in schedule and financial need). Just be prepared to answer and you'll be OK.

With a DAT slightly above average (>/= 20), I can see you getting plenty of interviews.

Considering how I have academically improved, I expect I should be able to get at least 20 on the DAT. I hope for higher, but we will see. I also know you can't really "expect" anything with these exams.

I have shadowed, 40 hours with a general dentist. I will try and get about 100, and I would like to shadow a specialist as well.

I suppose I need to think of the answers to the question of why I switched, but I know I switched out of medicine because of insurance issues, lack of patient contact issues, work hour issues, liability and malpractice insurance issues, etc. I have enjoyed shadowing and watching the doctors work, and enjoy this angle on healthcare.

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

 

[TheEpicFruitCake]

For your reference, average GPA for Tufts class of 2019 was 3.37 c, 3.26 s, BU was slightly higher. There are many dental schools below Tufts. I am not applying to Harvard, UCSF/LA, etc. I am not switching because I "cannot get into medical school", and I have shadowed, and will have more shadowing experience. I thought making that clear would stop people from throwing that one at me.

I am aware of my standings with GPA, and I have made it clear that I know GPA/DAT is not the whole story to an application and would like information as to the rest of my application and where that puts me. That is the whole point of this thread - how is my whole application, and some further suggestions.

Considering the Tufts stats, and stats of the numerous schools below Tufts, I expect your friend had other flaws in her application or applied to schools out of her reach.

3.58 is the average GPA of all dental schools (2015-16 ADEA Official Guide to Dental School). There are 8 schools listed (not including Howard/Meharry) with avg reported GPA's 3.4 or under.
As I stated before, you need more dental experience (shadowing/dental volunteering) so that adcoms don't question your motives. Lol you got butthurt so quickly you didn't even look at the advice I was giving you.

 

[changtw]

Considering how I have academically improved, I expect I should be able to get at least 20 on the DAT. I hope for higher, but we will see. I also know you can't really "expect" anything with these exams.

I have shadowed, 40 hours with a general dentist. I will try and get about 100, and I would like to shadow a specialist as well.

I suppose I need to think of the answers to the question of why I switched, but I know I switched out of medicine because of insurance issues, lack of patient contact issues, work hour issues, liability and malpractice insurance issues, etc. I have enjoyed shadowing and watching the doctors work, and enjoy this angle on healthcare.

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

With the hours you have currently, you're golden with most schools. If time becomes a factor, I think it might be more valuable to continue shadowing a GP and accumulate more hours there than to put time towards a specialist. But that is only if you won't be able to reach your goal of 100.

Good luck!!

 

[DrPresident]

3.58 is the average GPA of all dental schools (2015-16 ADEA Official Guide to Dental School). There are 8 schools listed (not including Howard/Meharry) with avg reported GPA's 3.4 or under.
As I stated before, you need more dental experience (shadowing/dental volunteering) so that adcoms don't question your motives. Lol you got butthurt so quickly you didn't even look at the advice I was giving you.

Very professional sounding.

You should try understand the difference between someone being butthurt and someone taking a solid stance on their motives. I am questioning my application as a whole, not my GPA. I truly hope I didn't upset you, but saying I won't get accepted based on that GPA is plainly wrong. That's not me getting defensive, that's just a fact. Sure I won't get into higher tiered schools, but that's my point. I understand the dental experience point. I listened to that, and will do so. All I did in the above was tell you that the statement was incorrect. This'll be the last I respond to that to avoid this becoming a thread full of flaming.

 

[DrPresident]

With the hours you have currently, you're golden with most schools. If time becomes a factor, I think it might be more valuable to continue shadowing a GP and accumulate more hours there than to put time towards a specialist. But that is only if you won't be able to reach your goal of 100.

Good luck!!

Thank you!

If I may ask, at what time period would you recommend applying? For medical school I was planning on taking two gap years. If I were to take the DAT towards the end of summer would I have time to apply to enter in the fall of 2017?

 

[BeaverLover]

IMO past mid August starts to get iffy...takes 2-3 weeks for DAT scores to upload I think. Regardless, don't rush it if you're not ready to take it.

 

[sumin5924]

Thank you!

If I may ask, at what time period would you recommend applying? For medical school I was planning on taking two gap years. If I were to take the DAT towards the end of summer would I have time to apply to enter in the fall of 2017?

Your app won't be evaluated until your scores get submitted (3-4weeks after the test date?). So, realistically, you'll be evaluated in the fall months which is relatively late in the cycle. Why can't you shoot for an earlier DAT date?

 

[changtw]

Thank you!

If I may ask, at what time period would you recommend applying? For medical school I was planning on taking two gap years. If I were to take the DAT towards the end of summer would I have time to apply to enter in the fall of 2017?

You're hoping to apply this upcoming cycle (the 2016 cycle), right?

You should be fine if you take the DAT then, but I wouldn't recommend taking it later than mid-August, only because it takes 2-3 weeks (maybe slightly longer since July/August tends to be the busiest time for applications) for the DAT scores to be logged by the AADSAS portal and then sent to the schools.

If I were in your position, I'd probably get everything in your application ready and submitted within the first few weeks of June. This would include having your PS ready, having all your transcripts mailed in, etc. When I was applying, the GPA verification took the longest. Then by the time your DAT score is sent in, your application will be complete and received by the schools by the end of August, which isn't late (to me). The only concern some people have with this, is that in the event that your don't get your desired DAT score, you'd have to wait 90 days before re-taking, and that would either delay your application that cycle, or you'd end up waiting until the following cycle to apply.

 

[DrPresident]

Your app won't be evaluated until your scores get submitted (3-4weeks after the test date?). So, realistically, you'll be evaluated in the fall months which is relatively late in the cycle. Why can't you shoot for an earlier DAT date?

I'm not sure it would help. Switching to predental so late has kind of set me back - I still need to shadow more, have 24 credits, etc. Taking the DAT in, say, April/May might be rushing it and I'm not sure my application as a whole would be ideal. Is applying in the beginning of June as important as it would be for medical school?

You're hoping to apply this upcoming cycle (the 2016 cycle), right?

You should be fine if you take the DAT then, but I wouldn't recommend taking it later than mid-August, only because it takes 2-3 weeks (maybe slightly longer since July/August tends to be the busiest time for applications) for the DAT scores to be logged by the AADSAS portal and then sent to the schools.

If I were in your position, I'd probably get everything in your application ready and submitted within the first few weeks of June. This would include having your PS ready, having all your transcripts mailed in, etc. When I was applying, the GPA verification took the longest. Then by the time your DAT score is sent in, your application will be complete and received by the schools by the end of August, which isn't late (to me). The only concern some people have with this, is that in the event that your don't get your desired DAT score, you'd have to wait 90 days before re-taking, and that would either delay your application that cycle, or you'd end up waiting until the following cycle to apply.

I see. I'm not sure. I might be able to get everything in by July/August-ish if I am happy with my DAT score and receive it sometime in late May, but I might be rushing a little over the next few months. I might just have to wait and deal with 2 gap years.

 

[changtw]

Oh, also, I think 6-8 weeks of dedicated studying is more than enough time to take the DAT and do well.

If you can study from June to July, then take the DAT end of July, that'd be great. Be sure to start looking into registering with Prometric around April/May to check available dates and testing centers, so you get the date you want.

 

[sumin5924]

I'm not sure it would help. Switching to predental so late has kind of set me back - I still need to shadow more, have 24 credits, etc. Taking the DAT in, say, April/May might be rushing it and I'm not sure my application as a whole would be ideal. Is applying in the beginning of June as important as it would be for medical school?



I see. I'm not sure. I might be able to get everything in by July/August-ish if I am happy with my DAT score and receive it sometime in late May, but I might be rushing a little over the next few months. I might just have to wait and deal with 2 gap years.

You can study for the DAT in 4-8 weeks easily. Taking it in June would be fine. If you're dependent on your scores, you can always submit your app with one school, take the DAT and decide from there if you'd like to commit to the cycle by adding more schools.
And yes, the earlier the better. AADSAS takes 4-6 weeks alone to verify your transcripts.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Even taking the DAT in July would be fine. I think the only thing left you have to do is get 100 hours of shadowing and do 20+ on the DAT and you'd be set. Your GPA is fine for dental school and you have a ton of clinical experience with volunteer. I think if you reach 100 hours and a good DAT you'd get interviews for sure.

 

[JLT223]

Make sure you REALLY want this and understand that schools will most definitely ask you why you switched paths. I was in the same boat as you and every single one of my interviewers asked me about it. Schools can see past applicants choosing the dental route for the wrong reasons.

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-job-shadowing-requirements-recommendation.1139813/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-prerequisites.1138351/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-ranking-of-ds-based-on-dat-gpa-other.1137667/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-range-of-gpa-dat-cut-off-scores.1074256/

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

What was asked in your interviews and what did you guys say in response? I was, as well, pre-med originally.

 

[JLT223]

What was asked in your interviews and what did you guys say in response? I was, as well, pre-med originally.

I wrote a part about it in my personal statement. It's bound to come up and you really can't hide it lol

 

[changtw]

What was asked in your interviews and what did you guys say in response? I was, as well, pre-med originally.

I was always pre-dent, but things I got asked included:

-If you were given the opportunity to attend medical school or dental school, which would you choose?
-Do you have any interest in medicine?
-Why did you choose dentistry over medicine?

The feeling I got was they threw out these questions randomly, sometimes abruptly, to get as honest of an answer, while gauging your body language/expression. One interviewer from a school explicitly said they joined the committee specifically to weed out those who are applying for dental school for the wrong reasons (in it for money, in it as a backup).

 

[DrPresident]

I was always pre-dent, but things I got asked included:

-If you were given the opportunity to attend medical school or dental school, which would you choose?
-Do you have any interest in medicine?
-Why did you choose dentistry over medicine?

The feeling I got was they threw out these questions randomly, sometimes abruptly, to get as honest of an answer, while gauging your body language/expression. One interviewer from a school explicitly said they joined the committee specifically to weed out those who are applying for dental school for the wrong reasons (in it for money, in it as a backup).

How did you respond to those? Curious.

 

[changtw]

I gave the same response every time. Something along the lines of...

There are aspects of medicine that interest me, and I'm always interested in learning more, but it's not something I want for a career. Having been through two separate cancer diagnoses in my immediate family, I've spent enough time in the hospital to know it just isn't for me.

Before committing to an UG major (non-traditional student), I invested 2 years at a dental office because I didn't want to waste my time. I needed to know with certainty that I could see myself doing this in the long run. Over time, I knew that the office dynamic and patient interaction suited what I wanted for myself.

No idea if it eased their concern, but I felt this was as truthful of answer I could give, and it worked out in the end.

 

[Weakfart]

I was always pre-dent, but things I got asked included:

-If you were given the opportunity to attend medical school or dental school, which would you choose?
-Do you have any interest in medicine?
-Why did you choose dentistry over medicine?

The feeling I got was they threw out these questions randomly, sometimes abruptly, to get as honest of an answer, while gauging your body language/expression. One interviewer from a school explicitly said they joined the committee specifically to weed out those who are applying for dental school for the wrong reasons (in it for money, in it as a backup).

Ditto on these questions.

 

[Pro-Dentite19]

I'm not sure it would help. Switching to predental so late has kind of set me back - I still need to shadow more, have 24 credits, etc. Taking the DAT in, say, April/May might be rushing it and I'm not sure my application as a whole would be ideal. Is applying in the beginning of June as important as it would be for medical school?



I see. I'm not sure. I might be able to get everything in by July/August-ish if I am happy with my DAT score and receive it sometime in late May, but I might be rushing a little over the next few months. I might just have to wait and deal with 2 gap years.

I don't think that you are really behind at all! You don't need 1400 hours of shadowing....I only had about 150. But applying in June makes a HUGE difference. You want to submit your application the day the cycle opens if possible. Remember you don't have to have the DAT done when you submit. I submitted second week of June and took the DAT July 1st....and got accepted on December 1st.

 

[ajj70]

Considering how I have academically improved, I expect I should be able to get at least 20 on the DAT. I hope for higher, but we will see. I also know you can't really "expect" anything with these exams.

I have shadowed, 40 hours with a general dentist. I will try and get about 100, and I would like to shadow a specialist as well.

I suppose I need to think of the answers to the question of why I switched, but I know I switched out of medicine because of insurance issues, lack of patient contact issues, work hour issues, liability and malpractice insurance issues, etc. I have enjoyed shadowing and watching the doctors work, and enjoy this angle on healthcare.

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

You probably need a bit higher DAT to offset your GPA. What did you get on the MCAT? That might be a good indicator how well you will do on the DAT. Without that score, it's hard to know what your chances are. I would also try to get more than 100 shadow hours. 100 is a good number for someone that has been pre-dent all along, so showing you are really interested in switching since it's really a very last minute change for you, getting 200+ hours in will help explain the switch.

 

[swindoll]

OP, I would recommend doing a masters program! If you bump your GPA and do well on DAT, you'll be golden! Personally, I wouldn't apply with this GPA because you'll end up spending way too much money since you'll have to apply to at least 15 schools. I don't know if you're familiar with med school application process, but dental school applications are waaaayyyy more expensive than medical. Best of luck! And by the way, nice switch

 

[swindoll]

Is applying in the beginning of June as important as it would be for medical school?

In my experience, no. I submitted my first application in June, but ended up adding more schools in August, and still got accepted there. My stats were pretty good though.

 

[DrPresident]

I don't think that you are really behind at all! You don't need 1400 hours of shadowing....I only had about 150. But applying in June makes a HUGE difference. You want to submit your application the day the cycle opens if possible. Remember you don't have to have the DAT done when you submit. I submitted second week of June and took the DAT July 1st....and got accepted on December 1st.

Hm... although I have a "full" courseload, I have class 3 days a week. #senioryear. I might even be able to take the DAT late spring. It's hard for me to gauge how far behind I am because of the medical admissions process being burned into my head. I know dental applications is stringent and time consuming too, but is it really possible to get the DAT done and my applications done before June?

You probably need a bit higher DAT to offset your GPA. What did you get on the MCAT? That might be a good indicator how well you will do on the DAT. Without that score, it's hard to know what your chances are. I would also try to get more than 100 shadow hours. 100 is a good number for someone that has been pre-dent all along, so showing you are really interested in switching since it's really a very last minute change for you, getting 200+ hours in will help explain the switch.

I didn't take the MCAT. The reason I planned on two gap years for medical school was to take the MCAT during the first gap year, and have time to take it a second time. My friends that have taken the DAT have only needed to take it once. I'm not gonna go saying the DAT is easier, but since the changes to the MCAT have added more material, it warrants a longer study period at the very least.

OP, I would recommend doing a masters program! If you bump your GPA and do well on DAT, you'll be golden! Personally, I wouldn't apply with this GPA because you'll end up spending way too much money since you'll have to apply to at least 15 schools. I don't know if you're familiar with med school application process, but dental school applications are waaaayyyy more expensive than medical. Best of luck! And by the way, nice switch

The only reason I don't want to do a masters program is the cost. Per Doc Toothache's guide, it'll cost ~1500-2000 to apply to schools. I am fortunate in that my girlfriend will have a full time job in her field after graduation and said she would help me with applications if I needed. The masters program will cost quite a bit more than that, and I'm not sure it would help me for the schools I'm applying at. If, however, I fail to gain admission, I will consider a masters/postbacc.

All three of you, I appreciate the feedback. Thank you!

 

[JLT223]

Apply in June and take the DAT by August. You'll be fine.

 

[DrPresident]

Apply in June and take the DAT by August. You'll be fine.

That won't be too late for the DAT? I didn't think all schools accepted an application without the DAT scores at all?

 

[JLT223]

That won't be too late for the DAT? I didn't think all schools accepted an application without the DAT scores at all?

No it's not too late. You app will be on hold until they recieve your scores which takes 2 weeks. I did this and had 6 pre Dec interviews. Don't let anyone tell you it's too late because that's nonsense!