Frustrated, need advice...

[gnu]

So it looks like I am reapplying this next year. I applied to 20 schools last year, five interviews, and ended up on four waitlists were I sit today in purgatory.

I was wondering if it is worth it to reapply if I haven't really done much but work over the last year. I work within a competitive lab and my continued employment is determined by results so I ended up working a lot and didn't have much time for anything else. I have recently been volunteering in a local organization but not for more then a few months and I'm hoping to land a saturday volunteer position at a local clinic since work has calmed down a bit since grant season is ending. Other then that I have nothing new to add.

Here is a basic run down if you are interested:
Graduated: 2008 from UC Davis, cGPA and sGPA is a 3.5
33 MCAT (11, 11, 11)
350 hours volunteering in cardiac rehab clinic
Summer in college spent in pharmacy research
3 letter varsity athlete for Washington State Univ and UC Davis (Cross, Indoor, Outdoor Track)
One year in full time work in pre-clinical pharm testing
One year in full time work in a lab at local medical school (this is what I did last year)

These are the big ones, I have more ECs but not anything big. Anything I can add? Any red flags here? I am so confused and frustrated.

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[MiniMoo]

20 schools is not very many to apply to considering your average stats and your CA residency.

Mind sharing us the list of schools (including which ones you're waitlisted at)?

Also I see no community service or leadership experience?

 

[Shaq]

do not apply to top 40 schools. you dont stand much of a chance.

also hone your interview skills. really try and figure out why you want to go into medicine. if you seem unsure or shaky in your reasoning, you will get rejected.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

Obviously you have to change something. Not much you can do about the EC's, grades, scores, etc. at this point.

As suggested above you can apply more broadly and evenly.

Also, if you submitted material late last cycle that could have hurt you as well. With average stats you really need to be submitted by July 1st (especially as a reapplicant), if not earlier, and have your secondaries completed within a couple days of their arrival.

 

[dragonfly99]

Your lab job sounds kind of sucky. Basically, you are working as a lab tech probably not earning that much money and not much upward mobility - they shouldn't really be driving you so hard that you feel like you'll lose your job if you don't "produce" a tremendous amount. As a tech with an undergrad degree and not a lot of experience, you're basically a warm body and as long as you are working reasonably hard and not slacking and not doing stuff that is obviously dumb, that is pretty much all they should expect. Still, quitting the job right now is probably not the best plan, as you're still trying to get into med school. UC Davis is very primary care oriented, so ironically working in a lab may not help a tremendous amound in getting in there (although not sure, I suspect that it won't at least). Another option would be to try to find another job in a similar lab where they won't treat you malignantly. At least it sounds to me like they aren't treating you that great. However, I wouldn't focus on that right now. Just do your job, but don't work yourself to the bone trying to help them out - it sounds like they are just basically using you to get what they want/need. Will you have a LOR from the PI of your lab, or at least from the person who directly supervises you? Ideal if it's an MD, not a PhD, but you probably can't control that right now.

The MCAT score should be adequate to get in somewhere, I would think, although probably not enough to help you stand out for CA state schools. When does it expire?

I suggest getting some volunteer hours at a hospital, such as the UC Davis Hospital or another local hospital system. Find out which one(s) have the best volunteer programs. I think that particularly for a lot of the state schools, they would probably like to see some more direct patient care volunteer experience - they want to see that you've seen some of the "nitty gritty" stuff like patients complaining, people in pain, or vomiting or blood, etc. Cardiac rehab office won't give you that experience, though I think it's a good experience anyway (see below).

I think the cardiac rehab hours/volunteer experience sounds interesting. Perhaps you can play that up in the application. It may at least interest any cardiologist or internist or family practice type people on the admissions committee. Preventive medicine and rehabilitative stuff (i.e. getting patients to change their lifestyles after heart attack, etc.) tends ot get short shrift in our current health care system, but most physicians realize that it is important, but just gets neglected.

Try to drag up the GPA and show some continued academic progress. Take some upper level biology classes or something (such as one per semester or something - you should maybe have some benefits to take these @UC Davis where you work). If you can't stomach the thought, then take psychology or medical ethics something else relevant to medicine that you never took as an undergrad. Whatever you take, you need to get A or A-
(definitely pull hard for an "A").

Make sure your LOR's are in order. Do you have at least one from a medical doctor? Do you think the letters are strong, or did someone write a lukewarm or uninteresting one.

Apply early and apply to a lot of schools, including out of state private schools. Avoid applying to too many "reach" schools, although it's fine to apply to 3 or 4 if you want to. UCSF or probably Stanford or something would be a reach for you. Try some lesser known private schools, ones with 3.5/3.6 GPA averages. Consider cross-applying to some DO schools - only do this if you are willing to go. My impression is that Western U is pretty well thought of in the West - if staying in California is very important to you, you might prefer that to a random private MD school in the Midwest or Northeast or something.

 

[gnu]

Thanks for your help, this should answer some questions,
I pretty much applied to all levels of MD schools from RFU up to UCLA, and I got everything really quick, complete everywhere by early October. Now that I look back the official count was 24 schools. I didn't apply to many out of state schools except for those that are pretty oos friendly. Right now I'm on waitlists at UCD, USC, Creighton, and VCU.

As for leadership I did forget to mention earlier that while at UCD for undergrad, I worked for the campus recycling program for over a year. There, I managed about 5-7 students in multiple projects to reduce waste and promote recycling through campus. I managed my own budget, lead other students, and worked with full-time staff members of the UCD grounds department. The highlight of the project was designing a system that has ultimately reduced the amount of waste sent the the landfill by ~70%. I also earned my eagle scout in high school and have been an on again off again volunteer with the council in a leadership position for about 3 years.

I have been around the "grittier" stuff before but probably not as much as I should have. I shadowed an ER doc over 4 12 hour shifts and ran 4 12 hour shift shadowing the same paramedic on an ambulance.


*As an update, I was resigned onto a big grant at my research institution and will continue working as a staff researcher in flow cytometry. I sent my paper into review and a few weeks ago with my big boss so we will see where that goes. I also am getting my things ready to volunteer at a local hospital, do some shadowing, and will hopefully be working as volunteer ski patrol this winter.

But that's about it, I'm still confused. I have been told that my interview skills are not that bad. I'm pretty social and enjoy talking to people about what I want to do. The only difficult spot I have with interviewing is I am pretty laid back and I was thinking that maybe I could come off as not really interested in medicine. I have had some mock interviews and that never came back as feedback so maybe I just fell into a hole this year.

 

[causalinference]

Try to apply earlier next time. Being complete at all schools by early October isn't fast enough if you want to maximize your chances. Most people would consider early October to be late. I was able to earn an acceptance at my only "reach" school, and I'm 100% positive that it was due to my early interview. I was complete in July and interviewed in mid-October. If I interviewed even two months later, I'm confident that I would have been waitlisted.

 

[MiniMoo]

Thanks for your help, this should answer some questions,
I pretty much applied to all levels of MD schools from RFU up to UCLA, and I got everything really quick, complete everywhere by early October. Now that I look back the official count was 24 schools. I didn't apply to many out of state schools except for those that are pretty oos friendly. Right now I'm on waitlists at UCD, USC, Creighton, and VCU.

Sorry to be so picky, but do you mind listing out the specific schools? "From RFU up to UCLA" is really vague, and school choice is absolutely critical to a successful cycle for someone with a below average GPA hailing from CA.

I also agree with the poster above -- being complete in October is late. I hope you're already planning your game plan for reapplying? A lot of applicants now are submitting earlier and earlier -- that means getting the primary verified in June and complete in schools by July or August at the absolute latest.

Also your application is low on shadowing. I would try to find at least 2-3 other physicians in different specialties to shadow (including a primary care doctor). I would also find a non-medical volunteer activity to get involved in -- homeless shelter, humane society, etc. From what I can tell, you pretty much have no community service activities (big hole in your application). And with your low GPA, I'm hoping you're continuing to take classes and getting A's? If so, you need to be updating the schools you're waitlisted at with your new transcripts. New grades will hopefully also boost your GPA a bit for this next cycle.

 

[dragonfly99]

4 wait lists out of 5 interviews isn't that terrible. Getting only 5 interviews with that many schools applied to is a bit of a red flag, but it's nothing awful. It's probably due to a combination of the lower GPA plus not as much clinical experience as some other applicants, and maybe nothing that makes your application stand out a whole lot.

You need to just keep plugging away. I still think that more clinical volunteer hours and a slightly higher GPA would help. Have a lot of people read your personal statement as well.

If you come off as too reserved or laid back in the interviews, then as you already concluded that could be a problem. Try to come across as more enthusiastic even if it makes you feel a little bit Jim Carrey (?sp).

 

[gnu]

Filled out secondaries to...
RFU
Creighton
Vermont
Loyola
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC
Nevada (qualified as border resident)
OHSU
VCU
Penn State
MCW
Boston
Jefferson
Temple
Cincinnati
Albany
Rochester

I was limited by funds. Maybe a few more, but I'm not at my own computer. I guess I meant to say I was completely done by early October because thats when I received my last secondary. I was verified by mid June and complete at most schools within a week of receiving the secondaries. As for community service, I have volunteered with the Boy Scouts as a troop leader/ mentor for a while and volunteered for the council for the past three years but its only about 3 to 6 hours per week. Is this not great community service? I didnt have time for much else with school, working, and training with the team. I do think its unfortunate that many schools seemed to right off my commitment to my team and sport. But thats life.

I tired calling schools I'm waitlisted at, but none of them will give me any information. So I'm getting more volunteering and shadowing in, and will continuing to volunteer with the scouts.

 

[MiniMoo]

You say you received 5 interviews and 4 waitlists. Did you contact the school that rejected you? If not, I really encourage you to do so, because they could give you feedback on other factors that could be influencing your application such as a negative LOR (this could tank you), weak PS or secondary essays, interviewing skills, etc. It could very well be one of these factors that we're not able to evaluate that is holding you back.

 

[Jay Leno]

So it looks like I am reapplying this next year. I applied to 20 schools last year, five interviews, and ended up on four waitlists were I sit today in purgatory. Here is a basic run down if you are interested:
Graduated: 2008 from UC Davis, cGPA and sGPA is a 3.5
33 MCAT (11, 11, 11)
350 hours volunteering in cardiac rehab clinic
Summer in college spent in pharmacy research
3 letter varsity athlete for Washington State Univ and UC Davis (Cross, Indoor, Outdoor Track)
One year in full time work in pre-clinical pharm testing
One year in full time work in a lab at local medical school (this is what I did last year)

These are the big ones, I have more ECs but not anything big. Anything I can add? Any red flags here? I am so confused and frustrated.

I don't know but I get the feeling that you may not have interviewed very well if you received 5 interviews and got waitlisted after all of them. Obviously, the interview is very subjective and there is no way to tell how well you did from an objective standpoint, but the proof is in the pudding and unfortunately, with 5 post-interview waitlist, I'd imagine that the interview was a sticking point in you application. I think your app is fine from a numbers perspective - unless you applied super late, or only to 5 schools, or only to the top 20 school, I think you'll have much better luck applying to out of state schools. Also, consider adding some more state schools that take a high number of out of state applicants to the list like OSU, Ullinois, UWisconsin, UVA, UNC, etc.

 

[gnu]

I talked with an advisor and they were saying that I'm probably just not that stellar of an applicant and even if I were to get the interview chances are I'm just interviewing for a waitlist spot. I think my interviewing skills are not bad enough to keep me out. One of my interviewers said I was one of the better interviewees he had this year and we talked almost 45 minutes past our ending time. I'm just going to try and clean up the rough spots of my app, take more classes maybe, volunteer more, and do some shadowing. Thanks for your help.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Filled out secondaries to...
RFU
Creighton
Vermont
Loyola
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
USC
Nevada (qualified as border resident)
OHSU
VCU
Penn State
MCW
Boston
Jefferson
Temple
Cincinnati
Albany
Rochester

I was limited by funds. Maybe a few more, but I'm not at my own computer. I guess I meant to say I was completely done by early October because thats when I received my last secondary. I was verified by mid June and complete at most schools within a week of receiving the secondaries. As for community service, I have volunteered with the Boy Scouts as a troop leader/ mentor for a while and volunteered for the council for the past three years but its only about 3 to 6 hours per week. Is this not great community service? I didnt have time for much else with school, working, and training with the team. I do think its unfortunate that many schools seemed to right off my commitment to my team and sport. But thats life.

I tired calling schools I'm waitlisted at, but none of them will give me any information. So I'm getting more volunteering and shadowing in, and will continuing to volunteer with the scouts.

You got five interviews. That's pretty good. That is likely a higher yield than the interview yield for those schools would predict (including two interviews in CA).

The thing that sticks out to me is that you applied to a bunch of schools that get a ton of applications (and in many cases, interview few people). These "oos friendly" schools to which you applied are not necessarily friendly for this reason.

Your MCAT is good. Your GPA is fine. Your experience is fine.

Find something to make you stand out, rewrite your PS and activities, apply to a better mix of schools. GPA and MCAT should not only be the only criteria by which you judge where to apply. Look for schools that have similar interests to yours.

 

[gnu]

Thanks for everyone's help. I called the schools I was waitlisted at, and got some ideas and was told to send any info I had about shadowing and community service. Fortunately I was pulled off the waitlist at USC and will be heading there in the fall.

 

[noshie]

Thanks for everyone's help. I called the schools I was waitlisted at, and got some ideas and was told to send any info I had about shadowing and community service. Fortunately I was pulled off the waitlist at USC and will be heading there in the fall.

That's awesome! Congrats on the acceptance... See, it just goes to show that it only takes one school to accept you. No matter how many waitlists you end up on or how many interviews you have, it just takes one acceptance to seal your future... Good luck!

 

[dragonfly99]

yeah,
congrats.
This is why getting on wait lists is not really a defeat...people on multiple wait lists, like 3 or 4, often do get in.