Frustrated - Why no scholarship love for post-baccs or premeds?

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

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I scour the interwebs daily as a nontrad and come up with zilch.

I see tons and tons of scholarships I intend to one day apply for as a medical student, but nothing for premeds. In fact, Daughters of the American Revolution scholarships specifically state "no pre-meds." The only scholarship I found for premed study was through American Woman's Medical Association and it's for $250.

That might cover one textbook.

If I went and got a second bachelors then maybe, just maybe I'd have a shot at the vast amount of scholarships out there for undergraduates, but that's really not feasible.

It looks like I'll be working two medical-related jobs to pay for my formal post-bacc and it's just not fair!

I wonder how much a kidney goes for on the black market. Or I could rent out my uterus and be a surrogate to fund my post-bacc...

No to any type of loans until med school, I'm super debt averse. I crawled in that hole deeper than most med students and by the grace of God (seriously it was a miracle) I now only have $6000 of student debt left.

Sorry, just felt like a rant. Anyone else feel frustrated and broke? I might just go to CC because it's a helluva lot closer and much much cheaper.

 

[esob]

My discontent atm for scholarships is that there are scads of scholarships for dependents of veterans and literally nothing for veterans themselves. If you are a vet and have already used your GI bill (which, if you served you paid for both monetarily and physically, so its not a scholarship in the traditional sense by any means) then there is literally zero money for you. That is ofc unless you feel like fighting the VA for 3 years for a chapter 31 benefit. ATM my wife and kids can basically go to school for free but I can't get any money as the actual veteran, lol.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

Awww, @esob, I'm so sorry! And thank you for your service.

 

[Apollo1]

Premed is like prelaw, a generic descriptor with too many folks who classify themselves as such. Post-baccs probably don't get as much scholarship consideration due to maximum credit hour limits, or because we already have degrees along with the belief that younger students should be more enabled by financial assistance.

 

[TallPreMed]

Well... Barring any genetic issues... You could always apply to donate your eggs. 6-8k a donation and it takes 2 months I believe? After a ton of tests, fertility tests and injections and then the actual procedure. But if you're desperate for money... Why not try?

(PSA: I actually looked into this a year ago to pay for school and was denied due to family histor of CA and eye issues, but I did a good bit of research on it)

 

[ConfusedChemist]

That's because 'premed' is not a real concrete, define thing....and it's not exactly a garentee you're going to med school. The face that you plan to apply to med school does not warrant you specific scholarships.

 

[ruedjgtc]

I used to work in an office of scholarships/grants for STEM/post grad, I'd guess: probably because scholarships (institutional) scholarships/grants must be backed up with data on "performance", in fact an institution can lose and possibly have to return funding if at their evaluation they have been found not to meet requirements. As someone already mentioned, it's difficult to tie performance of a premed to anything objective other than matriculating. And, since national matriculation numbers are around 42-45% matriculation (1-5% per US MD institution), few institutions would be able to confidentially report that those 10's of thousands have made a measurable change. In contrast, it was a lot easier to toss money at "post grad non medical" because the measurement is a lot softer (e.g. doable STEM master degree) — and besides 'top programs', if a student is willing to move, most post grads going this direction will be just fine. Furthermore, the money is meant to incentivize more people to join where there is a deficient of bodies, but there is absolutely no shortage of premeds (at least people claiming to be premeds).

Not that any of that comforts the OP 🙂

Anyways, I used to just tell premeds to take the money (when possible) as a prospective STEM "interested in translational research" because in the end we'd count their successful admission as a success of our funding in our report — at another place, the fine print may play out differently, this may not work.

 

[QofQuimica]

I totally feel you on not wanting the debt and agree with you that people should do whatever they can to avoid taking on extra debt. But I would gently point out that there is no inherent right to a free education, and no one ever said the path to (or through) med school would be easy. You might feel less frustrated about your situation if you viewed it as more of a challenge to be overcome with creativity, and less of a case of you not getting what you feel like you deserve. Such as, have you considered taking a job with your university? Speaking as someone who makes full use of my employer's policy allowing employees to take courses, I can vouch for it as a viable way of getting free classes. Some private companies also have employee education reimbursement programs; my sister got her entire MA for free that way. Might be worth checking into whether your current employer offers this as an option.

 

[Tremella]

That is ofc unless you feel like fighting the VA for 3 years for a chapter 31 benefit.

Is it really that difficult to get Chapter 31 benefits? Should I apply for benefits first or apply to school first?

 

[esob]

Is it really that difficult to get Chapter 31 benefits? Should I apply for benefits first or apply to school first?

It really depends on who you get for a counselor, its a complete roll of the dice. Essentially, you apply for ch 31 and they are supposed to give you an initial meeting within a month. After that they take several months to decide yes or no they can help you. If yes, then great, a few more months and you have everything squared away and can enroll in school. So, if you get a yes the first time, total time start to finish is maybe 6 - 7 months. If you get a no the first time however, then you have to file an appeal and that process literally takes years. Count on at least a 3 year fight if you get an initial no, during which time you will either have to put schooling on hold or pay for it yourself. If you pay for it yourself and win, you don't get any "back payments." So the system is really designed to make it a moot point to appeal unless you have no other option to go to school and years of your life left to sit around and wait for the VA to make a decision.

It could be worse though, they could also provide really shoddy healthcare and consistently screw vets over on pension.....oh wait nvm, they already do that too 🙂

 

[Tremella]

It really depends on who you get for a counselor, its a complete roll of the dice. Essentially, you apply for ch 31 and they are supposed to give you an initial meeting within a month. After that they take several months to decide yes or no they can help you. If yes, then great, a few more months and you have everything squared away and can enroll in school. So, if you get a yes the first time, total time start to finish is maybe 6 - 7 months. If you get a no the first time however, then you have to file an appeal and that process literally takes years. Count on at least a 3 year fight if you get an initial no, during which time you will either have to put schooling on hold or pay for it yourself. If you pay for it yourself and win, you don't get any "back payments." So the system is really designed to make it a moot point to appeal unless you have no other option to go to school and years of your life left to sit around and wait for the VA to make a decision.

It could be worse though, they could also provide really shoddy healthcare and consistently screw vets over on pension.....oh wait nvm, they already do that too 🙂

Wow this was really informative! It sounds like you've explored this for yourself, did you get told "no"? Have you thought about getting a lawyer? I saw this guy's website, I haven't even started the process yet but I am definitely going to do a lot of research first... Thanks for your reply!

 

[Eccesignum]

Don't go into this with the expectation of being given everything for free. It's just not how it works.

I'm a second bachelor's student myself and have ended up paying almost every penny out of pocket (broke down and took loans for one semester where my class schedule conflicted so much with work shifts that the choice was either accept loans or fail to pay to rent). I also work two jobs so I know it's enough to make you want to pull your hair out sometimes. But at the end of the day if it's what you want, it's what you have to do. It also won't go unnoticed later on; in many of my interviews I've gotten very positive feedback on having been able to manage work, school, and everything else simultaneously.

Did you look into whether your school has LSAMP, as I suggested on another thread? The stipend isn't much but it is a little income, and you can get some research experience under your belt at the same time.

 

[esob]

Wow this was really informative! It sounds like you've explored this for yourself, did you get told "no"? Have you thought about getting a lawyer? I saw this guy's website, I haven't even started the process yet but I am definitely going to do a lot of research first... Thanks for your reply!

Ben Krause puts out a ton of really useful info on voc rehab. He is probably the most knowledgeable person in the world on Ch. 31, definitely pick up the book. I actually got approved several years ago under voc rehab and started school but when I tried to change my major/career goal they denied it so that was the end of that.

The game goes something like this: They either say your injuries/disabilities are too severe to warrant retraining you for gainful employment or they say they are not severe enough and you could have a career now without the need for voc rehab. They literally will use any excuse in the book to deny a veteran benefits. TBH I'm not really sure why either, as they have no real incentive to do so. However, you don't have to look far to read multitudes of horror stories of vets who clearly would benefit from voc rehab but are denied primarily based on one of the two aforementioned reasons. If you apply and get approved the first time, you have somehow found favor with the universe and should count your blessings while you can. Forget about them paying for med school though, unless you can find some way to make a lucid argument that you have a disability which somehow makes it so you can't work any job other than one that requires 90+ hrs a week of some of the most physically and mentally demanding standards of any profession. I've seen people get away with it for law school b/c of the availability of part time JD programs and the ability to work part time as a lawyer, but that is simply not the case with a physician.

 

[Goro]

So you'd turn your nose up at $250?

The local VFW halls might be able to help. Ditto American Legion.

But sadly, if you want a scholarship, you might consider going back to school for a second UG degree.

The only scholarship I found for premed study was through American Woman's Medical Association and it's for $250.

That might cover one textbook.

 

[619959]

I can not find any Scholarships for Medical Students, except the Tylenol one LOL

 

[IlDestriero]

I'm not sure why you think you should have a scholarship at all. You already have a degree and presumably a career path. Now you want to change it. That's fine, but why should someone else pay for it? That money came from somewhere, and someone donating it.
There's better use of scholarship money IMHO, and many post bacc students are not even successful, so it's a bad bet as well. Contrast that with money going to someone looking for an initial undergrad degree. Tie the money to a 2.5 or even a 2.0 and the end result will be a person with a degree and career path besides trade school or ditch digging.

 

[Mad Jack]

I got zero scholarship money when taking my prereqs. It sucked, had to work full time and take out loans on top of it.

 

[Tremella]

If you apply and get approved the first time, you have somehow found favor with the universe and should count your blessings while you can. Forget about them paying for med school though, unless you can find some way to make a lucid argument that you have a disability which somehow makes it so you can't work any job other than one that requires 90+ hrs a week of some of the most physically and mentally demanding standards of any profession.

Yikes that's discouraging, wonder if anyone has done it. I'll definitely get the book. I wonder if it's the same odds for a Pharmacy program? The idea of having the kind of debt that would loom over me from medical school tuition is very scary, though. I think I'd be inclined sign up for the HPSP and sign away more of my life rather than come out with that kind of debt.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

I'm not turning my nose up at $250, I just don't really think I have a shot against the zillions of applicants out there gunning for it. And I think I SHOULD have a scholarship because I'm a socialist and I think education and healthcare should be free and competitive, but that's a whole other can of worms I don't wish to get into. Need-based, yes. Merit-based, maybe. There are scholarships for college students for with all sorts of issues - red-heads or being left-handed or majoring in basket weaving. I don't think it out of the realm of possibility to think nontrads should get the same opportunities.

Also to the loans - not eligible until 2017. Not eligible for private loans because of a low credit score (which is rising super slowly)- and I do not wish for high interest loans w/ my current score either.

But I will be working and it looks like cc or UNECOM online instead. More convenient for the boot-strapping schedule of employment I'm about to embark on come the New Year.

Note to self: establish a scholarship for disadvantaged premed nontrad career changers once I become an interventional cardiologist.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm not turning my nose up at $250, I just don't really think I have a shot against the zillions of applicants out there gunning for it. And I think I SHOULD have a scholarship because I'm a socialist and I think education and healthcare should be free and competitive, but that's a whole other can of worms I don't wish to get into. Need-based, yes. Merit-based, maybe. There are scholarships for college students for with all sorts of issues - red-heads or being left-handed or majoring in basket weaving. I don't think it out of the realm of possibility to think nontrads should get the same opportunities.

Also to the loans - not eligible until 2017. Not eligible for private loans because of a low credit score (which is rising super slowly)- and I do not wish for high interest loans w/ my current score either.

But I will be working and it looks like cc or UNECOM online instead. More convenient for the boot-strapping schedule of employment I'm about to embark on come the New Year.

Note to self: establish a scholarship for disadvantaged premed nontrad career changers once I become an interventional cardiologist.

By the time you become an interventional cardiologist, odds are very good that you will no longer be a socialist. 😉

All kidding aside, though, I agree completely with trying to help others avoid taking on exorbitant debt once you make it yourself. I'm paying my niece's and nephew's college tuitions, and I also donate money to the scholarship funds at my college and medical school.

I'm not sure how good an idea it is to make higher education free. When education is free, people don't value it as much. Never mind college; go to any high school and see how many kids wish they could be somewhere, anywhere else. I also don't think that everyone ought to go to college. Not that people shouldn't have a trade or a vocation, because everyone needs the training to be able to support themselves if they're capable. But that doesn't mean everyone needs a BS/BA. And it also doesn't mean it should be handed to them on a silver platter. There's a reason why I'm paying for the tuition for my niece and nephew and providing some help toward their living expenses, but not paying for everything for them. While I want to help them avoid taking on tons of debt, I want them to have some skin in the game too. I worked part time throughout college and grad school to help pay for my expenses, and I would argue that this should be a general expectation for post-secondary students. You can't deny that working for what you want makes you appreciate it more once you get it.

 

[Tremella]

When education is free, people don't value it as much.

These are some words of wisdom right here... My undergraduate degree was paid for by a scholarship I got in high school, I didn't appreciate it, I spent it on an easy psychology undergrad... my post bacc was paid for by the GI bill (which many will argue isn't free because it was granted in exchange for at least 4 years of service) but to me it was free because I valued the experience and would have done it anyway... Even when I got accepted into grad school, I had teaching assistantship, so it also was free (other than having to teach a little bit, which I immensely enjoyed and would have done for free anyway if it were a requirement of the program) so now, I am sort of left with this heir of entitlement that I shouldn't have to be saddled with debt just because I want to continue going to school. The idea of it is really giving me a new perspective and appreciation for education.

 

[DrMidlife]

...I think I SHOULD have a scholarship because I'm a socialist...

Need-based scholarships are the OPPOSITE of socialism. The whole tone of this thread is that you DESERVE a scholarship INSTEAD of somebody else who is getting one. Socialism is where EVERYBODY is funded equally and EVERYBODY bears responsibility for the cost of that equality.

Side note: socialist economies require students to borrow to go to college. The difference is that in other countries the borrowed amounts are realistic. Unheard of to have student loan balances greater than a mortgage.

 

[familyaerospace]

My discontent atm for scholarships is that there are scads of scholarships for dependents of veterans and literally nothing for veterans themselves. If you are a vet and have already used your GI bill (which, if you served you paid for both monetarily and physically, so its not a scholarship in the traditional sense by any means) then there is literally zero money for you. That is ofc unless you feel like fighting the VA for 3 years for a chapter 31 benefit. ATM my wife and kids can basically go to school for free but I can't get any money as the actual veteran, lol.

Can you PM me where you are finding these for dependents of vets? My husband is a vet and I have not yet found a single one for me or for my kids that we are qualified for because he is not active duty.

 

[esob]

Can you PM me where you are finding these for dependents of vets? My husband is a vet and I have not yet found a single one for me or for my kids that we are qualified for because he is not active duty.

info sent 🙂

 

[Germanicus89]

One way to get scholarship money for post-bacc classes is to do a DIY post bacc and work at a university that gives employee scholarships. I did this and it worked out well for me (MD acceptance! Let's go!). The only caveat is that it is sometimes difficult to cobble together a class schedule around an 9 to 5 job. You'd have to be OK with the possibility that it might take longer having a less flexible job or sometimes skipping entire semesters of a lecture based class to go to work. Something to consider.

 

[IlDestriero]

That's true. My position at the university offers me a tuition waiver for 2 classes a term. It's better than nothing.

 

[QofQuimica]

That's true. My position at the university offers me a tuition waiver for 2 classes a term. It's better than nothing.

Likewise. And considering that last semester I worked FT along with taking those two classes and studying for my boards, I didn't exactly feel like I was sitting around with nothing to do, wishing I could take even more classes at a time. I passed my boards, and I got As in both classes, but I think I would have struggled mightily to handle a third class even if the university would have allowed it.

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

Need-based scholarships are the OPPOSITE of socialism. The whole tone of this thread is that you DESERVE a scholarship INSTEAD of somebody else who is getting one. Socialism is where EVERYBODY is funded equally and EVERYBODY bears responsibility for the cost of that equality.

Side note: socialist economies require students to borrow to go to college. The difference is that in other countries the borrowed amounts are realistic. Unheard of to have student loan balances greater than a mortgage.

A bit off-topic, but its not a funding problem, its a spending problem:

http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asse.../education-at-a-glance-2014_eag-2014-en#page5

 

[DrMidlife]

A bit off-topic, but its not a funding problem, its a spending problem:

http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asse.../education-at-a-glance-2014_eag-2014-en#page5

A little help with your pronouns please. To what does "it" refer? Are you talking about how the US funds student loans vs. funding institutions of learning?