FTIS vs FTOS fellowship

[Perrotfish]

Some questions about military fellowships:

1) Is the obligation the same for FTIS and FTOS fellowships? Can someone verify that the obligation is an additional1 year for each year of training regardless of how much obligation you have going in?

2) Who pays you when you do FTOS, the fellowship or the military? If its the military, does that mean you still earn active duty pay or does the fellowship just pay you the same as the other fellows? Do fellows get paid VSP, ISP, and BCP or is it just base pay and BAS/BAH?

3) Do you accumulate time towards pay/rank/retirement with an FTOS fellowship? FTIS?

4) Any comments on the quality of in service pediatric fellowships? I'm particularly thinking of NICU (not sure if there are any others, actually)

5) If I do a fellowship, is it true that I can sign up for MSP without increasing my obligation for just taking the fellowship? Could someone explain how that works?

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[colbgw02]

Some questions about military fellowships:

1) Is the obligation the same for FTIS and FTOS fellowships? Can someone verify that the obligation is an additional1 year for each year of training regardless of how much obligation you have going in?

2) Who pays you when you do FTOS, the fellowship or the military? If its the military, does that mean you still earn active duty pay or does the fellowship just pay you the same as the other fellows? Do fellows get paid VSP, ISP, and BCP or is it just base pay and BAS/BAH?

3) Do you accumulate time towards pay/rank/retirement with an FTOS fellowship? FTIS?

4) Any comments on the quality of in service pediatric fellowships? I'm particularly thinking of NICU (not sure if there are any others, actually)

5) If I do a fellowship, is it true that I can sign up for MSP without increasing my obligation for just taking the fellowship? Could someone explain how that works?

1. No. FTOS is basically putting a stop order on your obligation. You'll pick up on the other end with whatever you started with. FTIS regs read 6-month for 6-month pay back for fellowship, with a two year minimum.

2. For FTOS, it's the fellowship. You get whatever is agreed upon, which may or may not be the same as other fellows (benefits-only positions). For FTIS, you are on active duty and are paid as you would be if practicing at an MTF. Fellows on FTIS get paid BCSP (assuming they are BC), VSP, MASP, and ISP.

3. FTOS - not sure. Sorry. For FTIS - yes. You are on active duty.

4. Can't help.

5. I admit to being a little fuzzy on this, but I believe it's is a non-issue (i.e. cannot be done) unless you will surpass 8 years in the medical corps and have fulfilled your initial ADSO prior to beginning fellowship.

My understanding of how this works is:
-someone is starting fellowship 1 July and will be fulfilling their initial ADSO at least by 30 June of the same year
-that person has at least 8 years in the medical corps prior to the start of their fellowship...usually because internship orientation begins in June, which provides a window
-the MSP contract is signed before the start of fellowship
-MSP and fellowship GME obligation are paid back concurrently

 

[AFM]

1. No. FTOS is basically putting a stop order on your obligation. You'll pick up on the other end with whatever you started with. FTIS regs read 6-month for 6-month pay back for fellowship, with a two year minimum.

2. For FTOS, it's the fellowship. You get whatever is agreed upon, which may or may not be the same as other fellows (benefits-only positions). For FTIS, you are on active duty and are paid as you would be if practicing at an MTF. Fellows on FTIS get paid BCSP (assuming they are BC), VSP, MASP, and ISP.

Not necessarily true. There are funded and non-funded FTOS. I did a funded FTOS at a civilian institution and made exactly the same as I did as a post-residency, bc-attending the year before. (Actually more since I ticked over years in service to the next pay bracket). I was making twice as much as my co-fellows.

You remain on active duty. If you are army, then you are assigned to the student company at Ft. Sam with duty at your fellowship institution. You will still pick up +1 years of service and +1 time in grade.

For #5, you have to complete your initial ADSO before you can execute the MSP. If you execute the MSP before you start your fellowship (ie. prior to 1 July) then your MSP obligation and the ADSO for fellowship get paid back concurrently. If you execute the MSP after 1 July, then the obligation for the MSP gets tacked onto the end.

Here is a previous thread about it with an attachment of the DoD reg

Here's a link to the current DoD reg

 

[colbgw02]

Not necessarily true. There are funded and non-funded FTOS. I did a funded FTOS at a civilian institution and made exactly the same as I did as a post-residency, bc-attending the year before. (Actually more since I ticked over years in service to the next pay bracket). I was making twice as much as my co-fellows.

You remain on active duty. If you are army, then you are assigned to the student company at Ft. Sam with duty at your fellowship institution. You will still pick up +1 years of service and +1 time in grade.

For #5, you have to complete your initial ADSO before you can execute the MSP. If you execute the MSP before you start your fellowship (ie. prior to 1 July) then your MSP obligation and the ADSO for fellowship get paid back concurrently. If you execute the MSP after 1 July, then the obligation for the MSP gets tacked onto the end.

Here is a previous thread about it with an attachment of the DoD reg

[urlhttp://comptroller.defense.gov/fmr/current/07a/index.html]Here's a link to the current DoD reg[/url]

I did not realize that funded FTOS and FTIS were distinct entities. I thought that doing a fellowship at an MTF and doing a funded civilian fellowship were both FTIS, and that FTOS necessarily meant unfunded. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I did not realize that funded FTOS and FTIS were distinct entities. I thought that doing a fellowship at an MTF and doing a funded civilian fellowship were both FTIS, and that FTOS necessarily meant unfunded. Thanks for the clarification.

Non funded fellowship is called a "deferred fellowship" FTIS and FTOS are both active duty and acrue time in service. Deferred does not.

 

[Yellowstone]

The language in the plans for MSP / fellowship payback has been updated / clarified with the addition of a new sentence. Basically, it clarifies what happens if you sign for an MSP before your initial education and training is complete, as long as you sign before starting fellowship. I signed for an MSP in mid June after I had 8 years of service, but still owed a few weeks on my initial ADSO. I started fellowship July 1st. The payback for fellowship and MSP is still concurrent even though I owed a few weeks from my initial ADSO.

Here are the specifics from 2012:

When no education and training ADO exists at the time of an MSP agreement execution, the ADO for MSP is served concurrently with the MSP agreement period and all non-education and training ADOs. Also, if the MSP agreement is executed before the start date of fellowship training and no other education and training ADO exists, the MSP ADO is served concurrently with the MSP agreement period. However, if the MSP agreement is executed on or after the start date of fellowship training, the physician is obligated for the full fellowship period and the MSP ADO will begin one day after the fellowship ADO is completed. Once a physician has begun to serve an MSP ADO, it will be served concurrently with any existing ADO including obligations for other special pay agreements or medical education and training obligations incurred after the execution date for that particular MSP agreement.

Here is the update from 2013:

When no education and training ADO exists at the time of an MSP agreement execution, the ADO for MSP is served concurrently with the MSP agreement period and all non-education and training ADOs. Also, if the MSP agreement is executed before the start date of fellowship training and no other education and training ADO exists, the MSP ADO is served concurrently with the MSP agreement period. If the member does have pre-existing obligation for education and training and the member takes an MSP prior to entering a fellowship the MSP obligation will be consecutive with the pre-existing obligation, but concurrent with the fellowship training and obligation. However, if the MSP agreement is executed on or after the start date of fellowship training, the physician is obligated for the full fellowship period and the MSP ADO will begin one day after the fellowship ADO is completed. Once a physician has begun to serve an MSP ADO, it will be served concurrently with any existing ADO including obligations for other annual special pay agreements or medical education and training obligations incurred after the execution date for that particular MSP agreement.

 

[DrMetal]

When you apply FTOS: obviously, you apply and interview at civilian programs, navigate the ERAS application, etc.

But who do you "apply" to on the military side of the house? Do you just list it in your specialty selection on the MODS website, and that's it? Do you have to have any correspondence with the specialty leader?

 

[Perrotfish]

4) Any comments on the quality of in service pediatric fellowships? I'm particularly thinking of NICU

WTF? I wrote this?

 

[notdeadyet]

Nothing worse than reading something you wrote about years ago on SDN...

 

[backrow]

When you apply FTOS: obviously, you apply and interview at civilian programs, navigate the ERAS application, etc.

But who do you "apply" to on the military side of the house? Do you just list it in your specialty selection on the MODS website, and that's it? Do you have to have any correspondence with the specialty leader?

Yes, you list it in MODS. And ABSOLUTELY you better have communication with the SL as they are the ones who will have the most impact as to whether you get it or not. They are the ones who decide if the specialty needs a provider in that sub specialty at that time. No need = little chance for selection. Also if there is an in-service fellowship for that sub they will always fill that prior to offering outside.

 

[DrMetal]

Yes, you list it in MODS. And ABSOLUTELY you better have communication with the SL as they are the ones who will have the most impact as to whether you get it or not. They are the ones who decide if the specialty needs a provider in that sub specialty at that time. No need = little chance for selection. Also if there is an in-service fellowship for that sub they will always fill that prior to offering outside.

Thanks. Does it look terrible if you apply FTOS, but don't apply FTIS (when there is a mil program available)? For instance: say you were only interested in civilian programs, as per the quality of training and perhaps geography....

 

[backrow]

Thanks. Does it look terrible if you apply FTOS, but don't apply FTIS (when there is a mil program available)? For instance: say you were only interested in civilian programs, as per the quality of training and perhaps geography....

Yes, you are putting down your future colleagues.

Good luck ever getting the fellowship if you don't rank the inservice program, and probably if you don't rank it #1 unless you have some serious reason that the SL buys into.

I would recommend looking at the specialty you want, has anyone ever been sent outserrvice? What is the recent history? What are the current people planning to do? Is there a projection for increased need when your time would come?

When it comes time for GMESB you will likely have to interview with the current fellowship director(s) at the inservice programs and the specialty leader. Those are the people that will decide your fate.