"Full cost" spay/neutering

[MommaFox]

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http://theveterinarian.com.au/?p=1096


Thoughts? Some of the client backlash made me chuckle and then 🙄.

 

[kenggy]

Wow, good essay, I agree with what she is saying. The problem is most vets (including the one I work for) cannot afford not to discount. Whenever a client gasps when I tell them the price of a neuter, I chuckle and ask how much would it cost for you to get a hysterectomy?!? And most of the time they are like "O, yea"

 

[wolfspeaker]

Wow, good essay, I agree with what she is saying. The problem is most vets (including the one I work for) cannot afford not to discount. Whenever a client gasps when I tell them the price of a neuter, I chuckle and ask how much would it cost for you to get a hysterectomy?!? And most of the time they are like "O, yea"

🙄 It costs that much just for a human to get a splinter removed.

 

[MommaFox]

🙄 It costs that much just for a human to get a splinter removed.

I recently paid $6000 to have 5 stitches put in my foot. I declined local anesthetic.

So I paid half of my years salary at the time for 5 stitches(done by an NP...not the ER dr), a tetanus shot, and a script for ceph.

 

[EngrSC]

Wow, good essay, I agree with what she is saying. The problem is most vets (including the one I work for) cannot afford not to discount. Whenever a client gasps when I tell them the price of a neuter, I chuckle and ask how much would it cost for you to get a hysterectomy?!? And most of the time they are like "O, yea"

👍👍

 

[felinelvr44]

I think it's interesting that it seems like the only reason this was successful was because she has the only animal clinic in town. With eight other small animal clinics within a ~1 mile radius of the clinic I work at, I don't think they would have the same success.

 

[macita183]

I think it's interesting that it seems like the only reason this was successful was because she has the only animal clinic in town. With eight other small animal clinics within a ~1 mile radius of the clinic I work at, I don't think they would have the same success.

I agree. One of the vets I used to work with barely does any spay or neuters anymore since there is a low cost clinic less than 5 minutes from where she works.

 

[felinelvr44]

I agree. One of the vets I used to work with barely does any spay or neuters anymore since there is a low cost clinic less than 5 minutes from where she works.

I'd say at least half of our spay/neuters are done using Friends of Animals or Muffin's (basically the same as FoA but NYC specific) certificates. I'm not sure how that works for the clinic (i.e. what they're reimbursed by FoA) but it seems to work well enough that they continue to accept them. We do charge a little extra on top of it for pain meds but it's still a great deal for those that can't afford full cost. I know the vet by my parents stopped accepting FoA certificates though because breeders were abusing it. Which is such a shame... 🙁

 

[scb44f]

Interesting article!

My husband's parents moved to an area a couple of years ago where the price of spays and neuters are legally required to be the same at all the vet clinics in the county (I'm not sure if the vets determined the price or if it was part of the law though). I hadn't heard of such a thing before, but it's certainly a thought-provoking way to handle the situation.

 

[bbeventer]

Thinking out loud here, but why do we have low cost spay/neuter clinics? Why don't we leave that cost up to rescues (low cost spay/neuters)?

 

[Jamr0ckin]

thinking out loud here, but why do we have low cost spay/neuter clinics? Why don't we leave that cost up to rescues (low cost spay/neuters)?

amen

 

[Foxhunter]

For some reason I thought vets made money on spay neuters and that they helped defray the cost of more expensive/emergency procedures. Guess it's really just office visits that are truly profitable.

 

[kakurubird]

Now I'm going to have to check at work on what our pricing is because I'm curious. We really don't discount our spay/neuter any that I know of (and honestly hadn't heard of clinics really cheapening it up outside of shelter/humane society), though we are in a somewhat high-income area. We do have some clients that do low-cost for spay/neuter and/or vaccines and see us only for other things, but not that many (especially because all the shelters around here spay/neuter and most rescues won't adopt out intact either so many owners aren't having it done themselves).

And, in terms of low cost spay/neuter outside of shelters/rescues, a lot of animals don't pass through those. I volunteer at a vaccine clinic at the same facility where the humane society does spay/neuters also, so we really try to encourage spaying/neutering when they come in for vaccines. Many people come in with puppies that they got from a friend or neighbor or whatever backyard "breeder" who happened to have two intact animals or older dogs that for whatever reason (take your pick...) are still intact (often acquired from similar places though). Without low cost spay/neuter available, the chance of some of those animals getting spayed/neutered probably goes WAY down and just continues the cycle. I think it's good to have but would have no problem with income restrictions (except, thinking out loud here, would that additional step of paperwork deter some people?).

 

[MommaFox]

Thinking out loud here, but why do we have low cost spay/neuter clinics? Why don't we leave that cost up to rescues (low cost spay/neuters)?

Rescues have no money as it is. I know that my shelter loses money on almost every adoption...just the nature of the beast. If shelters were to bear that burden, alot less animals would be worked with. I obviously dont know if thats exactly what would happen, but I can speculate.



I have met alot of people who think $45 for a neuter is just unthinkably expensive....its exhausting and people like that are the reason why I have job security at the shelter. I remember in PP when people's jaw would hit the floor when we quoted them $400 for a spay on a huge adult dog. 🙄

 

[MommaFox]

For some reason I thought vets made money on spay neuters and that they helped defray the cost of more expensive/emergency procedures. Guess it's really just office visits that are truly profitable.

That and medication pricing. At least in the PP that I worked at.

 

[dyachei]

That and medication pricing. At least in the PP that I worked at.

We charge full price here. But I think even full price IS discounted a little. We are between 300-400 without complications, etc. we have some people tht choose to go to low cost places to get it done. But we also describe the difference in care - anesthetic monitoring an pre anesthetic blood versus minimal monitoring and sometimes not even a tech. I probably do 2-3 spays a week and many neuters.

 

[MommaFox]

We charge full price here. But I think even full price IS discounted a little. We are between 300-400 without complications, etc. we have some people tht choose to go to low cost places to get it done. But we also describe the difference in care - anesthetic monitoring an pre anesthetic blood versus minimal monitoring and sometimes not even a tech. I probably do 2-3 spays a week and many neuters.

That was about the rate per DVM that we did as well. Now at the shelter we usually do 19 surgeries a day...about 12 neuters and 7 spays.

The difference in care is a huge difference. Many people do not realize the risks of surgery and how different PP is as opposed to spay/neuter. No cath and minimal monitoring in order to keep cost down. I'm not knocking spay/neuter clinics though, they do the best with what they have, as does the shelter. They both usually resemble a constant assembly line of animals with one tech, maybe an assistant, and a vet. The tech and assistant are usually running around like crazy people with about 5 animals in recovery at any given time. So the incident rate is of course higher. Differences in anesthesia methods as well. and all of this goes forth with no pre anesthetic blood work, like you said.

I understand that some people genuinely cannot afford it. But most of the time people just fail to budget for it and chose to go the cheaper route because they really have no idea.

 

[LetItSnow]

I recently paid $6000 to have 5 stitches put in my foot. I declined local anesthetic.

Oh my god. I'm a wuss. I would have brought my own lidocaine along.

 

[kenggy]

First the "un-discounted" price depends on where you live i.e. rural, urban. And also we do not do IV catheters or pre A BW at my clinic, thus our "un-discounted" rate is cheaper, albeit we don't do many of them, mostly low cost and rescue contracts. We have had 1 death in 2.5 years, and that was from sedation not anesthesia (the cat was inbred so who knows what went wrong). Just because that care isn't given doesn't mean the clinic isn't reputable. I have worked for several vets and my current is the most caring and I would honestly have a hard time trusting any other vet with my animals.

 

[kenggy]

I recently paid $6000 to have 5 stitches put in my foot. I declined local anesthetic.

So I paid half of my years salary at the time for 5 stitches(done by an NP...not the ER dr), a tetanus shot, and a script for ceph.

You should have had your boss do it, she prolly would have been better, an free 😛

 

[Abnerrs]

We charge full price here. But I think even full price IS discounted a little. We are between 300-400 without complications, etc. we have some people tht choose to go to low cost places to get it done. But we also describe the difference in care - anesthetic monitoring an pre anesthetic blood versus minimal monitoring and sometimes not even a tech. I probably do 2-3 spays a week and many neuters.

That seems steep but it could totally be location too. We charge ~200 for a spay and that includes pre op BW, monitoring, pain meds to go home and their recheck visit, plus we check ears, tonsils and clip nails while they're under. And we never discount. Even if they opt out of blood (we do separate appts since it's cheaper for us to send it out vs. run in house) we don't lower the price.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I personally have no problem with low-cost spay/neuter for people who can provide proof of (low) income. It is better for the general health of the pet population overall and helps with overpopulation. What bugs me are the people who have plenty of money who get pissy at the actual cost.

We have low-cost clinics for people, too. I think they definitely help the overall health of the underprivileged.

While I know it is very easy for us to say "Well, if you can't afford an animal, you shouldn't have one." we have to admit that veterinary services can be very expensive for some people. I'm not talking about the dude who works at McDonalds and spends all his money on his cell phone while his dog lives outside on a chain. I'm talking about the little old lady on limited income with the little poodle she's had for the last 15 years, or the newly-single mom who just went through a divorce, or the guy who just lost his job, etc.

However, there is the other end of the spectrum as well. If you truly cannot afford an animal, that sucks, but them's the breaks. I believe that order to adopt a cat or a dog from a shelter or rescue in the FIRST place, you need to provide proof of income. It doesn't have to be a buttload, just enough to reasonably keep the animal. Just like you would have to do to rent an apartment, etc.

There needs to be a balance.

 

[Abnerrs]

For some reason I thought vets made money on spay neuters and that they helped defray the cost of more expensive/emergency procedures. Guess it's really just office visits that are truly profitable.

We do make money on our spays and neuters. A decent amount.

 

[Abnerrs]

That seems steep but it could totally be location too. We charge ~200 for a spay and that includes pre op BW, monitoring, pain meds to go home and their recheck visit, plus we check ears, tonsils and clip nails while they're under. And we never discount. Even if they opt out of blood (we do separate appts since it's cheaper for us to send it out vs. run in house) we don't lower the price.

Oh, a caveat. We do offer discounted prices to the 2 rescues we work closely with and we nix BW and pain meds (the latter they usually have on hand)

 

[MommaFox]

While I know it is very easy for us to say "Well, if you can't afford an animal, you shouldn't have one." we have to admit that veterinary services can be very expensive for some people.

I agree with this so much. As much smack as I talk about having enough money to own an animal before you adopt one, I certainly got silenced this weekend with a surprise $2000 vet bill. I am humbled in that sense. Granted, I had care credit and was ready for the terrible blow of emergency care cost, it still sucked and I had to hurry up and sell a few possessions to make it happen. I learned a valuable lesson. Bad things happen to good pet owners.

 

[MommaFox]

Oh my god. I'm a wuss. I would have brought my own lidocaine along.

I am very accident prone, have had to get stitches in my feet twice before that incident. I honestly feel like the injection of lidocaine is SO much worse than the stitches.

 

[TooLove]

I'd say at least half of our spay/neuters are done using Friends of Animals or Muffin's (basically the same as FoA but NYC specific) certificates. I'm not sure how that works for the clinic (i.e. what they're reimbursed by FoA) but it seems to work well enough that they continue to accept them. We do charge a little extra on top of it for pain meds but it's still a great deal for those that can't afford full cost. I know the vet by my parents stopped accepting FoA certificates though because breeders were abusing it. Which is such a shame... 🙁

I work at one hospital that accepts FOAs and one that does not. At the one that does, it has become a rarity to see a full price spay/neuter. It's one of the few places in the area that accepts FOA certificates so we do a lot of them, but the majority of the people don't come back. It really frustrates me to hear people say "oh I'm going to take him back to my 'real' vet for his vaccines/heartworm test etc" when we really are a full service hospital. Nearly all of them decline IV cath/fluids, bloods, microchipping, and anything else extra. Also, the docs take a huge paycut on those FOAs and it significantly affects their production. I think for someone who is disadvantaged, then great, whatever it takes to get your dog spayed. But Friends of Animals is available to anyone and I have seen people roll up in extremely expensive cars just to plop an FOA certificate on the desk. We've even had people drive over an hour just to save the money, although how much money could you really be saving after gas, travel, time etc. I just don't know. The other hospital I work at "discounts" spays and neuters but really what happens is that they jack the price up and then tack a "wellness" discount on it to make it seem like you're getting a deal but its really comparable to anywhere else.

 

[dyachei]

First the "un-discounted" price depends on where you live i.e. rural, urban. And also we do not do IV catheters or pre A BW at my clinic, thus our "un-discounted" rate is cheaper, albeit we don't do many of them, mostly low cost and rescue contracts. We have had 1 death in 2.5 years, and that was from sedation not anesthesia (the cat was inbred so who knows what went wrong). Just because that care isn't given doesn't mean the clinic isn't reputable. I have worked for several vets and my current is the most caring and I would honestly have a hard time trusting any other vet with my animals.

I didn't mean to offend. My point was that monitoring equipment costs. So you have to spread that cost to the patients. Also, the rate of anesthetic death/complications is higher when you don't have the ability to push IV drugs rapidly, give fluids, and pre-screen for health problems. It's not saying anything against your vets. It is the reality of the situation. The majority of the time you'll be ok. But for those few pets where it makes a difference, it can be between life and death.

 

[sunshinevet]

I feel like I should weigh in here, since it is an Australian article written in our veterinary context. This article did the rounds a few months ago, and was promoted by the AVA preseident of WA.

So we really don't have low cost spey/neuter over here. We don't have places set up just to do that or anything, shelters don't typically offer surgical veterinary services, the closest thing we have to what you guys are describing is vets who just go out and spey/neuter all the aboriginal community dogs. And there are very few/no schemes for vouchers, no vets discount anything really (mainly because its illegal to advertise surgery fees in mainstream media here).

What she's talking about re discounting desexing, is that we charge way less for it as a whole than what the sum of its parts are worth. You know, at one hospital I work at opening the abdomen in surgery would likely cost you $600 minimum - not including the added extras - but a spey will cost you $200 total, including the whole shebang. So even if you are not handing out vouchers, the procedure is already inherently discounted - because you are already not charging its full worth.

I would say between $200-$300 is pretty typical of where I live for a spey, closer to the $200 for cats. Recently, a vet clinic and a cat shelter have started offering cat speys for $55 - and heavily promoting it, as far as they can. I DO disagree with this - mainly because if that is what you charge for your service, that is what people think your service is worth. A cat spey is worth so much more than $55 - that won't even get you a takeaway meal for two here in perth!!! It gives people a false sense of veterinary pricing (and in reality, the WRONG people a false sense of veterinary pricing - if you can't afford $200 for a cat spey, you need to start a pet savings account. But why would you if major abdominal surgery only costs $55???) and also a false sense of veterinary value. Vet fees are a bargain, even when charged appropriately.

 

[BlackDog17]

I agree with this so much. As much smack as I talk about having enough money to own an animal before you adopt one, I certainly got silenced this weekend with a surprise $2000 vet bill. I am humbled in that sense. Granted, I had care credit and was ready for the terrible blow of emergency care cost, it still sucked and I had to hurry up and sell a few possessions to make it happen. I learned a valuable lesson. Bad things happen to good pet owners.

I think it's important to differentiate these situations though. A massive emergency is unexpected, and often extremely expensive. Even a responsible, financially comfortable pet owner may find themselves struggling to pay a $2,000 bill that came out of nowhere. On the other hand, spay or neuter is a routine, necessary veterinary procedure. Most pet owners know this and agree that it needs to be done. So I have absolutely no sympathy for owners who complain about not being able to afford spay/neuter surgery. You knew when you adopted that animal that it was going to need to be spayed. If you honestly can't afford the surgery, then you shouldn't have adopted that animal. Period.

I also really wish more people understood the difference in care between their regular vet and a low-cost clinic too. One of my first veterinary experiences was working for a community spay/neuter clinic. Two techs, one vet, and a clinic manager. One tech would be pre-medding, one would be prepping the animals, and meanwhile the vet was in surgery alone all day. There were two tables in the surgery suite, so as the vet finished up with one animal she would call out "Closing!" and the tech would bring in the next animal and get it set up on the second table while the vet finished up the first surgery. It was an assembly line - no anesthesia monitoring, no catheters, no fluids. Trach tubes were washed and reused hundreds of times. I was usually in charge of the "recovery beach" which was a big electric blanket on the floor. My job was to wrap animals up in towels and blankets and monitor them while they woke up, then extubate and return them to their cages. I often had as many as 15 animals lined up at one time, trying to monitor temps and breathing and blink reflexes on all of them, plus giving vaccines before they woke up. They got pain meds only if the owner was willing to pay for them, and most weren't. As soon the animal started to wake up it was returned to its cage, and that was it. No additional temp checks or monitoring of any kind, in fact most of the cages weren't even in the main area of the clinic so no one would ever know if something went wrong until it was time to go get the animal and bring it out to the owner. And the clinic manager was constantly hounding the vet and the techs to do things faster so they could crank through even more animals in a single day.

Obviously every clinic is different, but from what I've seen and heard this was a pretty decent one. The vet and techs genuinely cared about the animals and did their best for them, but since everything was designed to minimize cost and maximize efficiency, the standard of care sucked. It was one of my first real vet experiences, so at the time I saw nothing wrong with it. But looking back now, I'm shocked at how different it was from the regular vet clinics I've worked in. And most pet owners just see a lower price - they have no idea what they're compromising just to save a few bucks. Even if you tried to explain it to them, I still don't think most would understand that difference.

 

[MommaFox]

I think it's important to differentiate these situations though. A massive emergency is unexpected, and often extremely expensive. Even a responsible, financially comfortable pet owner may find themselves struggling to pay a $2,000 bill that came out of nowhere. On the other hand, spay or neuter is a routine, necessary veterinary procedure. Most pet owners know this and agree that it needs to be done. So I have absolutely no sympathy for owners who complain about not being able to afford spay/neuter surgery. You knew when you adopted that animal that it was going to need to be spayed. If you honestly can't afford the surgery, then you shouldn't have adopted that animal. Period.

I also really wish more people understood the difference in care between their regular vet and a low-cost clinic too. One of my first veterinary experiences was working for a community spay/neuter clinic. Two techs, one vet, and a clinic manager. One tech would be pre-medding, one would be prepping the animals, and meanwhile the vet was in surgery alone all day. There were two tables in the surgery suite, so as the vet finished up with one animal she would call out "Closing!" and the tech would bring in the next animal and get it set up on the second table while the vet finished up the first surgery. It was an assembly line - no anesthesia monitoring, no catheters, no fluids. Trach tubes were washed and reused hundreds of times. I was usually in charge of the "recovery beach" which was a big electric blanket on the floor. My job was to wrap animals up in towels and blankets and monitor them while they woke up, then extubate and return them to their cages. I often had as many as 15 animals lined up at one time, trying to monitor temps and breathing and blink reflexes on all of them, plus giving vaccines before they woke up. They got pain meds only if the owner was willing to pay for them, and most weren't. As soon the animal started to wake up it was returned to its cage, and that was it. No additional temp checks or monitoring of any kind, in fact most of the cages weren't even in the main area of the clinic so no one would ever know if something went wrong until it was time to go get the animal and bring it out to the owner. And the clinic manager was constantly hounding the vet and the techs to do things faster so they could crank through even more animals in a single day.

Obviously every clinic is different, but from what I've seen and heard this was a pretty decent one. The vet and techs genuinely cared about the animals and did their best for them, but since everything was designed to minimize cost and maximize efficiency, the standard of care sucked. It was one of my first real vet experiences, so at the time I saw nothing wrong with it. But looking back now, I'm shocked at how different it was from the regular vet clinics I've worked in. And most pet owners just see a lower price - they have no idea what they're compromising just to save a few bucks. Even if you tried to explain it to them, I still don't think most would understand that difference.

You just described the shelter. We even call our recovery area "the beach". Heh.

And I also agree with that you said about the ability to pay for PLANNED vet care. I have seen vaccines overlooked SO MANY TIMES because they are too expensive....then they complain about the intense cost of treating parvo. 🙄

 

[Indigo10]

I think its crazy that with all the spays and neuters that are done in the United States we are still euthanize 3-4 million animals a year in shelters. Where are these animals coming from? Only 25% of animals in a shelter are purebrerd so the majority of the problem is irresponsible breeding. Without low cost spay and neuter I think the problem would be worse. I personally think its a good thing to have a low cost option to get people to spay and neuter. I hate having to watch 50% of what walks into a shelter get euthanized.

Veterinarians do make a fair amount of money at low cost clinics as well. I know one vet that makes 50 dollars per animal. She only works one day a week as a second job and pulls in an extra 2,000-3,000 a month. That could cover your student loan payment. Not saying every shelter vet makes that, but its just an example. Vets are benefiting from the programs as well.

 

[orca2011]

I actually work for a low cost clinic associated with my local humane society. I honestly haven't done a whole lot of PP work (some shadowing) but the bulk of my work is with this clinic or an equine practice. I'll probably get a rude awakening when I work with Banfield this summer through the Summer Job Program. I'm expecting to see some MAJOR differences and already have gotten a picture of the differences from having discussion with my bf who has worked for a Banfield for two years.

That being said, our clinic charges probably $200-350 for a dog spay, before pre-op BW. I don't think that price includes pain meds any more since the clinic realized how much they were short changing themselves, especially when it comes to burprenex. Last time I was in, I think a cat went home with like $60-80 worth of pain meds for the week. We do use catheters for all client owned animals and really try to get them to do blood work, although it isn't required unless they are over 5 years of age. They get the complimentary nail clipping as well. All the animals get "warmies" while they're recovering and usually someone is up in the surgery trailer at all times until the animal is picked up around 4. So while we're low cost, I think we at least try to keep things to a higher standard than some other lower cost, or even PP clinics in the area (we have some shady ones...).

We also do have discounts that are given to people but only if they can bring proof of income. Then they only get like 20% off and some items aren't covered in this discount. We also do (or did...not really sure) offer low cost chihuahua and pit bull spay/neuter clinics like once a month because we have so many in my area and they are most often our dystocia cases. I haven't heard of one being done in a while, so they might have stopped it due to cost.

I can honestly say I'm interested to see how my experience compares to the corporate world.

 

[PetPony]

I am very accident prone, have had to get stitches in my feet twice before that incident. I honestly feel like the injection of lidocaine is SO much worse than the stitches.

I probably would have tried without too. Haha Riding horses has made my pain tolerance level get really high. I almost fell asleep getting my tattoo on Sunday.

 

[felinelvr44]

This has been a really interesting discussion. At my clinic I think full price spay/neuter costs between $250-$400 with neuters and cats being cheaper in general. I think the person who pointed out that this is discounted for "abdominal surgery" made an interesting point. If you add in any extractions, our dental procedures are much more expensive. But, dentals can take a lot longer than your average spay (especially with xrays and extractions). While a spay is abdominal surgery it's also only taking our vets 15 minutes or so. And a cat neuter takes all of five minutes once they're under, intubated, and hooked up to monitoring. I don't know what point I'm trying to make, more just typing "out loud."

We do ear cleanings and nail trims while they're under for free. If I remember correctly we also require pre-op bloodwork and IV fluids on all animals over 7 yrs of age. Bloodwork and IV fluids are optional for younger animals and each costs about an additional $100 or so regardless of age. Pain meds are not optional and are included in the cost of the spay/neuter. All animals are monitored the entire time they are under with one tech working with one vet. Our recovery cages are in the same room as our "dirty" procedures so they are watched then as well.

 

[Trilt]

Only somewhat related, I guess, but reminds me of this article from a couple years back: Click

 

[kenggy]

I didn't mean to offend. My point was that monitoring equipment costs. So you have to spread that cost to the patients. Also, the rate of anesthetic death/complications is higher when you don't have the ability to push IV drugs rapidly, give fluids, and pre-screen for health problems. It's not saying anything against your vets. It is the reality of the situation. The majority of the time you'll be ok. But for those few pets where it makes a difference, it can be between life and death.

I know, don't worry, I wasn't offended, just wanted to put that out there. It's a good way of keeping our costs down and being able to pass that on to the client.

Our town is one that would chastise us if we didn't do low cost spay and neuter. I hate the responsibility falls upon the veterinary community instead of the owners.

 

[kenggy]

I actually work for a low cost clinic associated with my local humane society. I honestly haven't done a whole lot of PP work (some shadowing) but the bulk of my work is with this clinic or an equine practice. I'll probably get a rude awakening when I work with Banfield this summer through the Summer Job Program. I'm expecting to see some MAJOR differences and already have gotten a picture of the differences from having discussion with my bf who has worked for a Banfield for two years.

That being said, our clinic charges probably $200-350 for a dog spay, before pre-op BW. I don't think that price includes pain meds any more since the clinic realized how much they were short changing themselves, especially when it comes to burprenex. Last time I was in, I think a cat went home with like $60-80 worth of pain meds for the week. We do use catheters for all client owned animals and really try to get them to do blood work, although it isn't required unless they are over 5 years of age. They get the complimentary nail clipping as well. All the animals get "warmies" while they're recovering and usually someone is up in the surgery trailer at all times until the animal is picked up around 4. So while we're low cost, I think we at least try to keep things to a higher standard than some other lower cost, or even PP clinics in the area (we have some shady ones...).

We also do have discounts that are given to people but only if they can bring proof of income. Then they only get like 20% off and some items aren't covered in this discount. We also do (or did...not really sure) offer low cost chihuahua and pit bull spay/neuter clinics like once a month because we have so many in my area and they are most often our dystocia cases. I haven't heard of one being done in a while, so they might have stopped it due to cost.

I can honestly say I'm interested to see how my experience compares to the corporate world.

Wow! That's low cost! That is more than our non discounted rate! What size city do you live in?

 

[bunnity]

I think it's important to not generalize about quality of care vs cost, and to not forget all the variables that go into a safe anesthesia.

Part of what works to keep costs down in many spay/neuter clinics is specialization - if all you do is spay/neuter, you have a facility and staff that is designed/trained for exactly that. For example, the clinic I did an externship at does s/n only, so they do not have xray/ultrasound/expensive drugs and so on to worry about paying off. Their space is designed for efficient movement of people and animals into and out of surgery. Their techs prep and recover animals 40 hours a week; their doctor does hundreds of surgeries a week - so they are incredibly fast. Their animals are on the recovery mattress long before an animal at school would even be prepped for surgery. If they were a regular clinic doing many types of surgeries + seeing appointments + caring for inpatients, they would be less efficient and things would have to cost more.

The other thing is, cost does not always mean better monitoring or care. I've seen the high-end private practice where anesthesia monitoring means a tech records the HR/RR/CRT every 5 minutes with no monitoring in between and no equipment on the animal. I've done anesthesia where there's $20,000 worth of equipment on the animal but you can't actually touch the animal to judge depth of anesthesia because of the way it's draped... and the animal is under for 2 hours for a spay. I've seen the low cost s/n where no one monitors the animal at all and there are no pain meds. I've seen the low-cost s/n with very careful physical and pulse ox monitoring, with IV fluids for high-risk animals, mandatory pain meds, and mandatory bloodwork on older animals. I've seen sketchy surgical technique and excellent technique at both ends of the spectrum. Yes - more money CAN mean a safer anesthetic and surgical experience, and in the hands of a thoughtful and compassionate doctor it should - but let's not rush to assume that cost = safety/compassion/skill/technology.

Also, the whole pets and money thing. Try to not judge until you've walked a mile. How many people making that judgement actually support themselves and their animals with no parent help and actually have at least 5k set aside for each animal should an emergency arise? Or are you making that judgement out of a place of good luck and a super support system? Life is complicated, and money changes. Should my girlfriend have given up her dog when she lost her job? Should my next door neighbor have left the stray dog he found on the street to be hit by a car instead of taking her in even though he doesn't have a ton of money and had to take her to the low cost vet to be spayed? Should all the poor people in North Philly who ended up with cats during the snow-pocalypse have left those cats out to die in the snow because they were already broke? Should every kid in North/West Philly grow up never knowing the unconditional love of a pet or learning compassion for animals because their parents are struggling? Do you REALLY think that when 3-4 million animals are being killed in shelters every year in the USA alone that we should turn loving homes away because they don't meet our idea of middle class privilege? By all means -- prepare financially for your pets. If you're going to drop 2k at a breeder -- make sure you can afford the vaccines and neuter later. But don't judge people's love for their pets by how much money you think they should have.

 

[felinelvr44]

I think it's important to not generalize about quality of care vs cost, and to not forget all the variables that go into a safe anesthesia.

Part of what works to keep costs down in many spay/neuter clinics is specialization - if all you do is spay/neuter, you have a facility and staff that is designed/trained for exactly that. For example, the clinic I did an externship at does s/n only, so they do not have xray/ultrasound/expensive drugs and so on to worry about paying off. Their space is designed for efficient movement of people and animals into and out of surgery. Their techs prep and recover animals 40 hours a week; their doctor does hundreds of surgeries a week - so they are incredibly fast. Their animals are on the recovery mattress long before an animal at school would even be prepped for surgery. If they were a regular clinic doing many types of surgeries + seeing appointments + caring for inpatients, they would be less efficient and things would have to cost more.

The other thing is, cost does not always mean better monitoring or care. I've seen the high-end private practice where anesthesia monitoring means a tech records the HR/RR/CRT every 5 minutes with no monitoring in between and no equipment on the animal. I've done anesthesia where there's $20,000 worth of equipment on the animal but you can't actually touch the animal to judge depth of anesthesia because of the way it's draped... and the animal is under for 2 hours for a spay. I've seen the low cost s/n where no one monitors the animal at all and there are no pain meds. I've seen the low-cost s/n with very careful physical and pulse ox monitoring, with IV fluids for high-risk animals, mandatory pain meds, and mandatory bloodwork on older animals. I've seen sketchy surgical technique and excellent technique at both ends of the spectrum. Yes - more money CAN mean a safer anesthetic and surgical experience, and in the hands of a thoughtful and compassionate doctor it should - but let's not rush to assume that cost = safety/compassion/skill/technology.

Also, the whole pets and money thing. Try to not judge until you've walked a mile. How many people making that judgement actually support themselves and their animals with no parent help and actually have at least 5k set aside for each animal should an emergency arise? Or are you making that judgement out of a place of good luck and a super support system? Life is complicated, and money changes. Should my girlfriend have given up her dog when she lost her job? Should my next door neighbor have left the stray dog he found on the street to be hit by a car instead of taking her in even though he doesn't have a ton of money and had to take her to the low cost vet to be spayed? Should all the poor people in North Philly who ended up with cats during the snow-pocalypse have left those cats out to die in the snow because they were already broke? Should every kid in North/West Philly grow up never knowing the unconditional love of a pet or learning compassion for animals because their parents are struggling? Do you REALLY think that when 3-4 million animals are being killed in shelters every year in the USA alone that we should turn loving homes away because they don't meet our idea of middle class privilege? By all means -- prepare financially for your pets. If you're going to drop 2k at a breeder -- make sure you can afford the vaccines and neuter later. But don't judge people's love for their pets by how much money you think they should have.

👍 👍

 

[CanHardlyWait]

Also, the whole pets and money thing. Try to not judge until you've walked a mile. How many people making that judgement actually support themselves and their animals with no parent help and actually have at least 5k set aside for each animal should an emergency arise? Or are you making that judgement out of a place of good luck and a super support system? Life is complicated, and money changes. Should my girlfriend have given up her dog when she lost her job? Should my next door neighbor have left the stray dog he found on the street to be hit by a car instead of taking her in even though he doesn't have a ton of money and had to take her to the low cost vet to be spayed? Should all the poor people in North Philly who ended up with cats during the snow-pocalypse have left those cats out to die in the snow because they were already broke? Should every kid in North/West Philly grow up never knowing the unconditional love of a pet or learning compassion for animals because their parents are struggling? Do you REALLY think that when 3-4 million animals are being killed in shelters every year in the USA alone that we should turn loving homes away because they don't meet our idea of middle class privilege? By all means -- prepare financially for your pets. If you're going to drop 2k at a breeder -- make sure you can afford the vaccines and neuter later. But don't judge people's love for their pets by how much money you think they should have.

Thank you for this! As someone who grew up poor, I feel like sometimes that realities of different types of life/backgrounds escape the average vet student/prevet. I'm not saying all of y'all on here are super privileged, I mean I don't know any of you. I just feel like the whole "don't get a pet you can't afford" attitude is kind of elitist, for all the reasons Bunnity eloquently mentioned above. Beside the situations where lower income people saved animals that they couldn't "afford", there is research supporting human health benefits, physical and mental, of the human-animal bond. Should those health benefits, like so many others in our modern society, be solely the domain of the middle and upper class?

 

[kenggy]

Also, the whole pets and money thing. Try to not judge until you've walked a mile. How many people making that judgement actually support themselves and their animals with no parent help and actually have at least 5k set aside for each animal should an emergency arise? Or are you making that judgement out of a place of good luck and a super support system? Life is complicated, and money changes. Should my girlfriend have given up her dog when she lost her job? Should my next door neighbor have left the stray dog he found on the street to be hit by a car instead of taking her in even though he doesn't have a ton of money and had to take her to the low cost vet to be spayed? Should all the poor people in North Philly who ended up with cats during the snow-pocalypse have left those cats out to die in the snow because they were already broke? Should every kid in North/West Philly grow up never knowing the unconditional love of a pet or learning compassion for animals because their parents are struggling? Do you REALLY think that when 3-4 million animals are being killed in shelters every year in the USA alone that we should turn loving homes away because they don't meet our idea of middle class privilege? By all means -- prepare financially for your pets. If you're going to drop 2k at a breeder -- make sure you can afford the vaccines and neuter later. But don't judge people's love for their pets by how much money you think they should have.

So, 10 years ago I would have thought this exact same thing. I think in an idealist world money shouldn't matter, everyone should have a pet, and no animals would ever need a home because they would all have one. Unfortunately the world will never be perfect. I don't think "if you can't afford one, don't have one" but I do believe if you can't afford care for a pet, don't expect society or your vet to pay for it..

At the minimum, pet owners should be able to pay for yearly wellness care, spay/neuter, and euthanasia (because a dog should not die suffering because you don't have money) (IMO). If my 13yo lab needed a TPLO right now, I would not pay the money for that, I mean I could put it on a credit card, call my parents for money, etc. but to me the money could be spent better elsewhere. I know I sound like a monster, but I do love her very much. A lot of client's can't afford this surgery that come into our clinic, or maybe they can but they don't want to like me, and we don't look down on them. Everyone has to make the choices that are right for them, but I don't want to pay for other's choices.

Spay/neuter clinics, low cost vouchers, all of these programs are great and vets don't have to participate if they don't want to but in many instances they have to in order to make money. My clinic has to be involved in the local voucher program because every other clinic is otherwise we would be out of the spay/neuter business completely. The voucher program would't be a big deal except literally anyone who applies for the voucher is accepted because there are ways to get around the income requirements. The abuse of the voucher system is just one of the many problems. I am not trying to offend anyone, this is just a discussion.

 

[orca2011]

Wow! That's low cost! That is more than our non discounted rate! What size city do you live in?

It's outside a city that has just under 90k people, but the city itself is in really bad shape. Like 35% live below the poverty line. The suburb I live in (literally across the bridge) is better off and you won't find those prices at the clinics there. And like I mentioned, I don't think those include pain meds anymore, but the clients don't get to decline those. We add that price in to the estimate when we give it to them. And it's probably more in the high $200 for a dog spay. I think the smaller dogs are probably like $240-260. I also haven't really worked there much in the past year, so prices might have gone up too.

 

[bunnity]

So, 10 years ago I would have thought this exact same thing. I think in an idealist world money shouldn't matter, everyone should have a pet, and no animals would ever need a home because they would all have one. Unfortunately the world will never be perfect. I don't think "if you can't afford one, don't have one" but I do believe if you can't afford care for a pet, don't expect society or your vet to pay for it..

At the minimum, pet owners should be able to pay for yearly wellness care, spay/neuter, and euthanasia (because a dog should not die suffering because you don't have money) (IMO). If my 13yo lab needed a TPLO right now, I would not pay the money for that, I mean I could put it on a credit card, call my parents for money, etc. but to me the money could be spent better elsewhere. I know I sound like a monster, but I do love her very much. A lot of client's can't afford this surgery that come into our clinic, or maybe they can but they don't want to like me, and we don't look down on them. Everyone has to make the choices that are right for them, but I don't want to pay for other's choices.

Spay/neuter clinics, low cost vouchers, all of these programs are great and vets don't have to participate if they don't want to but in many instances they have to in order to make money. My clinic has to be involved in the local voucher program because every other clinic is otherwise we would be out of the spay/neuter business completely. The voucher program would't be a big deal except literally anyone who applies for the voucher is accepted because there are ways to get around the income requirements. The abuse of the voucher system is just one of the many problems. I am not trying to offend anyone, this is just a discussion.

No one is telling you to pay for other people's pets just like no one is telling you do donate holiday gifts to poor kids. Voucher systems and other forms of nonprofits are set up for people who DO want to donate that money to needy pet owners, but there's no obligation. Perhaps the voucher system in your location is not ideal, but the vets are still getting patients (and possibly life long clients) out of the deal, no? And one poorly run voucher system is not a reason to disavow all charities supporting pets. I get that it is frustrating for vets when owners want care for cheap/free and no, the vet shouldn't have to pay for it. But that's all the more reason to have donation-supported programs out there for people who need the cheap/free care - take the obligation off the vet and either have that client redirected to a nonprofit clinic (it's probably not going to be a profitable client for the regular vet anyway) or have the program pay the vet directly like in a voucher system.

I think anyone getting a pet should consider what it's going to cost. And if I were in a position to advise anyone considering getting a pet I would talk seriously to them about it. But I also realize that things happen and people make imperfect choices, and I would rather the pet not suffer for that. I would would rather someone who is broke not have their pet get pregnant over and over and feed into the cycle. And I would rather someone who has fallen on hard times get help with pet food and vaccines and not have their pet given up and euthanized in a shelter. I feel the way I do because I do see the ugly end of things that happens when there is not infrastructure in place to support pet owners (and shelters and fosters and rescues and TNR trappers, who all rely on low cost vet care whether through a formal organization or a helpful local vet). Ultimately it is the animals that suffer and die without a safety net and that's why I feel so strongly about providing basic care and population control.

One more thing, I am far from an idealist. Rather, I think it is idealistic to think that we can command "Only have pets you can afford" and to think that will ever happen. It is idealistic to ignore the dirty side of the pet world where millions of pets are euthanized for no good reason except that there are too many of them. That the #1 killer of dogs and cats in the United States is shelter euthanasia of HEALTHY pets. I've sat on too many concrete floors euthanizing young friendly animals to be anything but a realist -- because that IS reality for too many pets.

 

[kenggy]

No one is telling you to pay for other people's pets just like no one is telling you do donate holiday gifts to poor kids. Voucher systems and other forms of nonprofits are set up for people who DO want to donate that money to needy pet owners, but there's no obligation. Perhaps the voucher system in your location is not ideal, but the vets are still getting patients (and possibly life long clients) out of the deal, no? And one poorly run voucher system is not a reason to disavow all charities supporting pets. I get that it is frustrating for vets when owners want care for cheap/free and no, the vet shouldn't have to pay for it. But that's all the more reason to have donation-supported programs out there for people who need the cheap/free care - take the obligation off the vet and either have that client redirected to a nonprofit clinic (it's probably not going to be a profitable client for the regular vet anyway) or have the program pay the vet directly like in a voucher system.

I think anyone getting a pet should consider what it's going to cost. And if I were in a position to advise anyone considering getting a pet I would talk seriously to them about it. But I also realize that things happen and people make imperfect choices, and I would rather the pet not suffer for that. I would would rather someone who is broke not have their pet get pregnant over and over and feed into the cycle. And I would rather someone who has fallen on hard times get help with pet food and vaccines and not have their pet given up and euthanized in a shelter. I feel the way I do because I do see the ugly end of things that happens when there is not infrastructure in place to support pet owners (and shelters and fosters and rescues and TNR trappers, who all rely on low cost vet care whether through a formal organization or a helpful local vet). Ultimately it is the animals that suffer and die without a safety net and that's why I feel so strongly about providing basic care and population control.

One more thing, I am far from an idealist. Rather, I think it is idealistic to think that we can command "Only have pets you can afford" and to think that will ever happen. It is idealistic to ignore the dirty side of the pet world where millions of pets are euthanized for no good reason except that there are too many of them. That the #1 killer of dogs and cats in the United States is shelter euthanasia of HEALTHY pets. I've sat on too many concrete floors euthanizing young friendly animals to be anything but a realist -- because that IS reality for too many pets.

I said I do not believe in that "don't have one if you can't afford one" mentality. I also did not disavow any charities. The program in our city is run by the animal shelter so much of the money does come from private donations but it also comes from city taxes. What I was trying to get across is that whether you realize it or not there are people paying for these programs in one way or another, either via the taxes they pay everyday or the lessened income they receive (Veterinarians, vet techs, etc.). If you are donating to these programs, please remember to check into where your money is going, you never know how much goes to admin costs unless you do some digging.

I have worked in a shelter as well, a fairly well run one too, and it was the most depressing job of my life, so I do understand. I am not bashing on anyone who adopts a pet and cannot afford a $2000 surgery, that is understandable. However, don't pay $700 at the local puppy mill store and get a $35 voucher for a spay, then come back because the dog has pancreatitis and tell me that your children are going to starve if I don't give you a discount, that is irresponsible. Go to the shelter, get an already neutered, vaccinated, and chipped dog for $65. It's the people that abuse the voucher system that ruin it for the ones who actually need it.

Most of the time we do not get clients from the voucher system, because after they use the voucher, no further veterinary care is given because they can't afford it. If they do return for vet care often they are looking for a hand out. These are just my experiences, I realize everyone else's are different.

 

[kenggy]

It's outside a city that has just under 90k people, but the city itself is in really bad shape. Like 35% live below the poverty line. The suburb I live in (literally across the bridge) is better off and you won't find those prices at the clinics there. And like I mentioned, I don't think those include pain meds anymore, but the clients don't get to decline those. We add that price in to the estimate when we give it to them. And it's probably more in the high $200 for a dog spay. I think the smaller dogs are probably like $240-260. I also haven't really worked there much in the past year, so prices might have gone up too.

Do you guys have a voucher system or low cost clinic in town? Or is that just your clinic's discount? If so, how do you determine who qualifies?

 

[emacc]

Maybe it's just because I work in a very rural clinic, but we don't charge very much for our spays and neuters and make a fairly decent profit margin on them. Our vet also scales the price of all surgeries based on time in surgery and degree of difficulty though, so most of our common surgeries end up being lower cost than some of the other local clinics. Spays are typically ~$120-175 and neuters a bit less than that, not including pain medication (most of our clients refuse pain medication anyway even when we do offer it at cost for surgeries that were difficult, because they don't seem to view altering as a "real" surgery). We monitor continuously throughout surgery and recovery, but don't routinely do pre-op bloodwork on young dogs (we offer it for about an extra $50-60, but again it's regularly refused). We also offer discounts on a case-by-case basis as the vet determines appropriate, from a "guardian angel fund" that doesn't really exist, but our area is such that we know all of our clientele pretty well enough to know if they're being honest etc. We also perform them discounted for a rescue we contract with, but at a lower priority than client surgeries. I think there are a lot of complex factors involved in how individual clinics choose to price their surgeries and unfortunately I don't think there'll be able to be any real standardization of it in the near future without making the issue worse.

That's my thoughts anyway.

 

[orca2011]

Do you guys have a voucher system or low cost clinic in town? Or is that just your clinic's discount? If so, how do you determine who qualifies?

No voucher system. Its just a public clinic attached to our local humane society so they have lower prices because of that and the location. We also do all the shelter animals there.

To determine who gets additional discounts from our normal fees you have to fill out paperwork and bring welfare stubs or whatever to indicate your income. We also have an animeal program where people who qualify for that get free food every now and then and then a free wellness visit. They have to pay for anything outside of that. They're also limited to discounted care for like 5 animals onely. There was talk of lowering the # of animals covered but I don't know if that happen.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using SDN Mobile

 

[bunnity]

I said I do not believe in that "don't have one if you can't afford one" mentality. I also did not disavow any charities. The program in our city is run by the animal shelter so much of the money does come from private donations but it also comes from city taxes. What I was trying to get across is that whether you realize it or not there are people paying for these programs in one way or another, either via the taxes they pay everyday or the lessened income they receive (Veterinarians, vet techs, etc.). If you are donating to these programs, please remember to check into where your money is going, you never know how much goes to admin costs unless you do some digging.

I have worked in a shelter as well, a fairly well run one too, and it was the most depressing job of my life, so I do understand. I am not bashing on anyone who adopts a pet and cannot afford a $2000 surgery, that is understandable. However, don't pay $700 at the local puppy mill store and get a $35 voucher for a spay, then come back because the dog has pancreatitis and tell me that your children are going to starve if I don't give you a discount, that is irresponsible. Go to the shelter, get an already neutered, vaccinated, and chipped dog for $65. It's the people that abuse the voucher system that ruin it for the ones who actually need it.

Most of the time we do not get clients from the voucher system, because after they use the voucher, no further veterinary care is given because they can't afford it. If they do return for vet care often they are looking for a hand out. These are just my experiences, I realize everyone else's are different.

Sorry, I should have been more clear that the "can't afford one don't have one" part wasn't directed at you! It is something mentioned in this thread and that gets brought up all the time, which is why I wanted to mention it specifically.

While a few programs are city funded (especially in areas that mandate s/n), the vast vast majority of shelters, rescues, s/n clinics, and nonprofits get zero money from the government. The animal control shelters are usually city (under-)funded but almost everything else is via private donations. I totally agree to check out a place before donating, though.

 

[sunshinevet]

This has been a really interesting discussion. At my clinic I think full price spay/neuter costs between $250-$400 with neuters and cats being cheaper in general. I think the person who pointed out that this is discounted for "abdominal surgery" made an interesting point. If you add in any extractions, our dental procedures are much more expensive. But, dentals can take a lot longer than your average spay (especially with xrays and extractions). While a spay is abdominal surgery it's also only taking our vets 15 minutes or so. And a cat neuter takes all of five minutes once they're under, intubated, and hooked up to monitoring. I don't know what point I'm trying to make, more just typing "out loud."

It was me who made this point, because its actually the point the article is trying to make!!!... we don't have "discounted"/low cost S/N here in Aus!!! I totally get that yes speys and castrates are quick etc, but also think about how your clinic bills every other procedure"

Usually it looks something like:
Hospitalisation: $xx
Pre med drugs: $xx
Anaesthesia, short procedure: $xx
Theatre fee/pack fee: $xx
Suture material: $xx
Pain relief injectable: $xx
Pain relief to go home: $xx

Maybe extra charges for "disposables" and e-collars depending on where you work.

In reality, if you add all that up for the time a spey costs, its going to cost more than what you are charging. I've seen minor stitch ups that are more expensive than a spey, just because a spey is billed at a flat rate.