Future Abortion Providers

[Tired]

So you are basically admitting to being a troll? I get the impression that you already know the answer to your question and are just trying to cause trouble by taking a sensitive subject and treating it with no care whatsoever.

Bingo. One more uneducated person trying to stir up trouble.

Take a look at the previous threads this user started. His/her definition of "pretty ugly" is a couple people saying that they are anti-abortion and a couple more saying that they don't think anyone offers that kind of training.

Someone who was actually interested in this topic would (as you have said):

1) Contact Planned Parenthood (their supposed former employer)
2) Contact ACOG
3) Ask their faculty

What they wouldn't do is ask an anonymous message board in forums for med students and Pediatric residents.

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[nibrocli]

Bingo. One more uneducated person trying to stir up trouble.

Take a look at the previous threads this user started. His/her definition of "pretty ugly" is a couple people saying that they are anti-abortion and a couple more saying that they don't think anyone offers that kind of training.

actually, by "pretty ugly," i was referring to the "kill children" comments. i found that pretty insulting, as did the moderator who closed the thread.

i already said i need more info on training b/c my former co-workers got their training a certain way. the OP and i are just looking for some info. we're advocates, who want to provide complete care to our future patients.

i know we all got into medicine to help people, not to instigate and cause anger for no reason. we are no different. i have no reason to lie here. i've been posting on sdn for a few years now, and have found it a great resource. i think my post history is pretty benign.

i can't imagine being a troll and wasting everyone's time just to get people angry. i know there are people like that, such as those who bash D.O.s.
i've never done anything like that. i'm interested in learning more about a medical procedure that i've only seen through the eyes of a medical assistant/program coordinator.

i'm excited to think about future clerkships and residency programs. i loved my jobs but am still humbled and honored at the prospect of being a clinician someday.
peace.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

By the way, do you like VeggieTales? Your Avatar reminded me of them:

I like the VeggieTales. My little girl provides a convenient cover story for my collection of several of the DVDs.

 

[nibrocli]

I like the VeggieTales. My little girl provides a convenient cover story for my collection of the DVDs.

thanks for putting a smile on my face this day. my little niece loves veggie tales!!! i think i just love veggies

 

[OncoCaP]

actually, by "pretty ugly," i was referring to the "kill children" comments. i found that pretty insulting, as did the moderator who closed the thread.

That's not insulting; it's simply giving my perspective. If you find it insulting, it sounds like you have very thin skin for someone who is planning to go into a business where a lot of people will be very angry with you.

i already said i need more info on training b/c my former co-workers got their training a certain way. the OP and i are just looking for some info. we're advocates, who want to provide complete care to our future patients.

The reason your former co-workers got their training in a certain way is because that is how you almost certainly will need get that training.

i know we all got into medicine to help people, not to instigate and cause anger for no reason. we are no different. i have no reason to lie here. i've been posting on sdn for a few years now, and have found it a great resource. i think my post history is pretty benign.

SDN is a great resource. However, you have no doubt seen some intense discussions and you already know what happened to the last thread ... even so, you retrace your steps expecting a different result.

i can't imagine being a troll and wasting everyone's time just to get people angry. i know there are people like that, such as those who bash D.O.s.
i've never done anything like that. i'm interested in learning more about a medical procedure that i've only seen through the eyes of a medical assistant/program coordinator.

You're well on your way to causing some emotional discussion that won't provide much information. I'm sure there is a way of asking about residency training that doesn't result in a closed thread; maybe you (and your like-minded OP) should explore alternate approaches of presenting your question ... not just moving it around and hoping that you won't get flamed again.

i'm excited to think about future clerkships and residency programs. i loved my jobs but am still humbled and honored at the prospect of being a clinician someday.
peace.

Glad to hear that. Many of us are excited about working as physicians. Even though I don't agree with your perspective on abortion, I can appreciate the fact that you would enjoy the medical profession.

 

[nibrocli]

The reason your former co-workers go their training in a certain way is because that is how you almost certainly will need get that training.

that is indeed how most people get their training, but since i've read about people who did something different, and i don't personally know any, i just thought i'd ask. yes, there are other sources of info, but i'm sure we've all posted questions on here b/c of the sheer number of readers, and it often results in a few quick answers. again, i didn't start 2 threads, only one. but i was glad to see someone who shares my ideals try again. i do respect your views as well, though.

btw, calling someone a child killer is an insult. and my skin thickness is just fine. i was referring to the attacks on the peds thread, not so much to your post. obviously that moderator agreed b/c he closed the thread due to the lack of civility.

 

[OncoCaP]

that is indeed how most people get their training, but since i've read about people who did something different, and i don't personally know any, i just thought i'd ask. yes, there are other sources of info, but i'm sure we've all posted questions on here b/c of the sheer number of readers, and it often results in a few quick answers. again, i didn't start 2 threads, only one. but i was glad to see someone who shares my ideals try again. i do respect your views as well, though.

Have you contacted the people you read about (or the authors who presented the examples)?

Yes, I know that you didn't start this thread, but you're the one who is mainly posting here asking about peds residencies with abortion training, so you're involved, of course. Without your help, we would still be on page 1 of this thread.

 

[nibrocli]

Have you contacted the people you read about (or the authors who presented the examples)?

abortion providers don't typically advertise their email addresses. i have sent a few emails about a month ago to some organizations such as msfc & naf, which are very active in training. haven't heard anything back yet. it's not easy to get info on this topic, unfortunately.

Yes, I know that you didn't start this thread, but you're the one who is mainly posting here asking about peds residencies with abortion training, so you're involved, of course. Without your help, we would still be on page 1 of this thread.

you're right, but i felt compelled to defend myself & the OP. as passionate as you are on your side, here i sit on my side, just as passionate.

 

[jonb12997]

I think it's funny that a thread about abortion training has a veggietales picture in it... that's awesome!

 

[OncoCaP]

abortion providers don't typically advertise their email addresses. i have sent a few emails about a month ago to some organizations such as msfc & naf, which are very active in training. haven't heard anything back yet. it's not easy to get info on this topic, unfortunately.

Sounds like it's going to be tough to get the information you want. Maybe someone will PM you with details at some point.

you're right, but i felt compelled to defend myself & the OP. just as passionate as you are on your side, here i sit on my side, just as passionate.

There you go: The real reason for your posting is to "defend" or advocate your interest in abortion. This is what a troll does: take a sensitive subject and throw it out there, resulting in a war of words. You don't have to be an OP to be a troll on a thread. If you were just seeking information, you would have gone about this much differently.

In any case, it was nice chatting with you.

 

[georgia_md]

thanks for putting a smile on my face this day. my little niece loves veggie tales!!! i think i just love veggies

Now you're starting to tick me off Veggie tales and abortion do not mix!!

 

[nibrocli]

There you go: The real reason for your posting is to "defend" or advocate your interest in abortion. This is what a troll does: take a sensitive subject and throw it out there, resulting in a war of words. If you were just seeking information, you would have gone about this much differently.

that is simply not true. i posted because i wanted some info. there were some very benign posts asking harmless questions. even a good response or two. and then people starting being accusatory regarding motivation for just asking the questions. if you look at the initial posts, they were presented in a non-confrontational way. you might consider just asking a question about abortion to be confrontational, but we can disagree there.

 

[OncoCaP]

that is simply not true. there were some very benign posts asking harmless questions. even a good response or two. and then people starting being accusatory regarding motivation for just asking the questions. if you look at the initial posts, they were presented in a non-confrontational way. you might consider just asking the question to be confrontational, but we can disagree there.

You already know what happened to the last thread on abortion (and probably threads before that). The only way you can say that talking matter-of-factly about abortion is "benign" is to deny the reality that you have seen multiple times. You know full well this is a sensitive subject and your desire to get information about residencies as an MS1 is a very poor cover story that lacks any credibility. Your true intentions have already come out: to "defend" your viewpoint in a public forum ... to have a debate about a controversial subject ... what a troll does. Just because you present your ideas with a smiley doesn't mean that everyone will just suddenly treat the subject like balancing a chemical equation. If anything your "cheers" and smileys probably make people angrier because you are being insensitive about a sensitive subject.

 

[nibrocli]

You already know what happened to the last thread on abortion (and probably threads before that). The only way you can say that talking matter-of-factly about abortion is "benign" is to deny the reality that you have seen multiple times. You know full well this is a sensitive subject and your desire to get information about residencies as an MS1 is a very poor cover story that lacks any credibility. Your true intentions have already come out: to "defend" your viewpoint in a public forum ... to have a debate about a controversial subject ... what a troll does. Just because you present your ideas with a smiley doesn't mean that everyone will just suddenly treat the subject like balancing a chemical equation. If anything your "cheers" and smileys probably make people angrier because you are being insensitive about a sensitive subject.

i only defended myself when i was accused of something untrue, such as trolling. no one started an abortion debate. no one wants to argue about when life begins. so because i'm an MS1 i can't be curious about what comes later? for this i lack credibility? i'm thinking about what i need to do this summer to prepare a residency application later. i've never lied on here. i, and others, are interested in training, that's all. no one thought a smiley could evoke this, myself included.

honestly, the OP & i are not here to troll. we've never been like that. i know it's a sensitive subject, but causing anger has never been my goal. looking back at the posts, don't you think it's possible that there's no malintent here? because there truly was not. i know my intentions for each and every one of my posts, and only i can tell you what they are. i am telling you that trolling has never been my intention.

it is totally ok to be against abortion, but it's also ok for others to want to learn it. that's all we're here to do, i promise you.

 

[OncoCaP]

...
honestly, the OP & i are not here to troll. we've never been like that. i know it's a sensitive subject, but causing anger has never been my goal. looking back at the posts, don't you think it's possible that there's no malintent here? because there truly was not. i know my intentions for each and every one of my posts, and only i can tell you what they are. i am telling you that trolling has never been my intention.

Here are your exact words from a previous post:

Again, please keep this thread on-topic. If you have relevant info, we'd like to hear it. We're not too interested in what you'd imagine or venture that perhaps is true. I'm not trying to be harsh, but it has become frustrating that we cannot get info from people who are actually knowledgable on this public forum.

After telling other SDNers what to do: "keep this thread on-topic" (when has that ever worked??), you are "[frustrated] ... that we cannot get info from people who are actually knowledgable on this public forum."

So, instead of getting involved in the secret network of abortion providers or a pro-choice organization that has the information you want (if it exists at all), you're posting to the people who do not appear to be knowledgeable again?

The first time this is tried, you get flamed, and then you and your friend post the same flame-bait expecting a different results?? Maybe your intentions are good, but the end result is no different from that of a troll, and thus, you're trolling, whether you're aware of it or not.

You know what's coming when you post the subject. Yet, you keep throwing gasoline on top of a smoldering ashtray hoping that this time it won't catch fire.

 

[nibrocli]

Here are your exact words from a previous post:
"what you'd imagine or venture that perhaps is true."

i said this because someone had responded using those exact words, when they guessed that training is only available in certain specialties. i just wanted to hear from people who really know, and are not making a guess. that is all. i am not a bad person, and neither are you. this is just a misunderstanding, i'm sure. i mean nothing harmful here. just asking some questions about something i'm trying to learn about. nothing other than that. no ulterior motives. just me, just askin'. maybe you can believe me? i hope? we're all here to do good things. you and i may be colleagues someday. all we ever want to do is help in this profession. i just want to learn how i can help people in a way that fulfills me. i know you want the same for yourself. peace?

 

[Dr. Will]

i'm a med student and a former planned parenthood medical assistant and abortion coordinator, nice to meet you

i've seen about 100 procedures, and it's been an amazing, life-changing experience. they were all less than 18 weeks gestation. after that, they were in fact referred to a hospital. i agree that a post-18 week procedure wouldn't be done in an office setting.

anyone else have any info on residency training?

Why don't you go to FREIDA to find websites to all the pediatric residency programs and read info regarding their curriculums? If you don't get the answers you want, why don't you contact them and ask for yourself?

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Here are your exact words from a previous post:



After telling other SDNers what to do: "keep this thread on-topic" (when has that ever worked??), you are "[frustrated] ... that we cannot get info from people who are actually knowledgable on this public forum."

So, instead of getting involved in the secret network of abortion providers or a pro-choice organization that has the information you want (if it exists at all), you're posting to the people who do not appear to be knowledgeable again?

The first time this is tried, you get flamed, and then you and your friend post the same flame-bait expecting a different results?? Maybe your intentions are good, but the end result is no different from that of a troll, and thus, you're trolling, whether you're aware of it or not.

You know what's coming when you post the subject. Yet, you keep throwing gasoline on top of a smoldering ashtray hoping that this time it won't catch fire.

Oncocap, why the hell are you posting if you have nothing to do with this discussion? You know next to nothing about the question asked, you just scour google or other information sources and post them as necessary (which the OP, or even I, could do) and you're making it clear you disagree with abortion or the topic in general. Not only that, you have no personal experience in medical school or the path to residency, with or without abortion. In fact, it seems to me that you're posting *for the sole reason* to demonstrate your vehement disagreement of abortion, and the previous alleged "child killer" comments (which I did not see) just confirm this. You are just as much a troll as the broccoli person you accuse. However, I disagree that broccoli is a troll -- the questions are legitimate, and I think SDN is as good a place as any to find relevant answers and insights. YOU are pouring gasoline on this smoldering ashtray by continuing to post on this thread. I would suggest you recuse yourself due to your bias and general ignorance about the topic, and allow others who may have had relevant experience to post. This will allow the thread to stay on topic and serve some educational purpose. If the thread seemed incendiary to you, the only people who would respond are those that disagree with the topic (and that's you), so clearly, if you stop posting and feeding (what you deem) the troll, then it won't explode into flames.

 

[OncoCaP]

i said this because someone had responded using those exact words, when they guessed that training is only available in certain specialties. i just wanted to hear from people who really know, and are not making a guess. that is all. i am not a bad person, and neither are you. this is just a misunderstanding, i'm sure. i mean nothing harmful here. just asking some questions about something i'm trying to learn about. nothing other than that. no ulterior motives. just me, just askin'.

Have you tried organizations that specialize in increasing access for abortions (I seem to remember you provided URLs for a couple of them)?

 

[trustwomen]

In case you ever get in, you might want to know this: Although you have probably seen "abortion clinics" on television where women have elective termination done on an outpatient basis, procedures in the operating room continue to be very prevalent.

Although you present the procedure as a relatively benign and noninvasive process, I suspect you will change you tune when or if you ever have the chance to witness one. Even first trimester terminations, involving only dilation and curretage, is extrememly uncomfortable and, for many women, very painful. When done in the ED, morphine/versed is the common pain cocktail given at my institution. Many providers at my school's Ob department offer women the option of going to the OR for their procedures, where they have access to an anesthesiologist who can maintain a deeper level of sedation.

The case of second trimester D&Es is even more dramatic. I have yet to see a provider offer these in the office, as it requires a greater degree of dilation, suctioning, etc. I can imagine that there are probably some providers who do this in the office, but I have never met one.

Thank you for your input. Feel free to offer further opinions on subjects you clearly have no training in.

Oh boy.

First, the majority of abortions in the US are done in clinics, not hospitals. I think it's somewhere between two-thirds and three-quarters. There are indeed hospitals which provide abortions also.

I have seen a few hundred at least. It is "invasive" inasmuch as it involves entering the uterus, but it is fairly benign and quite quick in experienced hands (a therapeutic D & C in the ED, for something like incomplete miscarriage, might be different - I wouldn't know). Most clinics offer sedation, generally fentanyl/versed. Some larger clinics/ambulatory health centers (and many hospitals) offer short-acting GA, with anesthesiologists or CRNAs.

Many (and I dare say most though I don't have the stats handy) second-trimester procedures happen in clinics (but recall, 90% of all U.S. abortions are under 12 weeks). It is indeed a more involved process - 8 to 20 minutes to do the procedure, rather than 3 to 6 for a first-tri. Conscious sedation is generally considered a minimum sedation for second-tris; GA is not uncommon. Of course, you need much more training to do 2nd tris than to do 1st tris, but you still don't have to be an OB/GYN.

Finally, OP, don't write on SDN. Write to MSFC and they will find you the answers. Geez.

 

[OncoCaP]

Oncocap, why the hell are you posting if you have nothing to do with this discussion? ....

Anon, where have you been? I see you have decided to enlighten us all by answering the question.

Oops, no, you don't have an answer to the OP's question?? I guess you're not much help either ... you're just here to emote a personal attack, as usual.

Note that I posted some potential answers, unlike you.

And your commentary really clever: Yes, that's right OncoCaP is the ONLY PERSON who thinks the OP & friend are a troll. No one else sees a troll, nooooo.

You have great powers of observation. I await your next flame. I can always trust anon-y-mouse to stir things up with another acrid message; it should be equally bitter and uninformative.

 

[nibrocli]

Why don't you go to FREIDA to find websites to all the pediatric residency programs and read info regarding their curriculums? If you don't get the answers you want, why don't you contact them and ask for yourself?

people on sdn so often provide great info, very quickly, that's all. calling every pedi program would be quite a task. i thought some people here might have some insight or personal experience.

fortyfourhundred,
what was your point with that? i don't think the OP is trolling, and i know i'm not. that's all i said.

 

[trustwomen]

Then all of a sudden I'm getting told by someone that abortions aren't done in the operating room, that they're not surgical procedures, and that they're simple and benign. In addition the same poster "instructs" everyone on what they can and cannot post, but doesn't even know who the medical director is of an organization he/she supposedly worked for?

You would suggest what, that I not call bull**** when I read it?

Um, each Planned Parenthood affiliate has its own medical director.

The national organization is a different story.

I'm not the person you're talking about, just thought I'd clear this up...

 

[OncoCaP]

people on sdn so often provide great info, very quickly, that's all. calling every pedi program would be quite a task. i thought some people here might have some insight or personal experience.

fortyfourhundred,
what was your point with that? i don't think the OP is trolling, and i know i'm not. that's all i said.

What about abortion advocacy organizations? Have you gone to any of them for information (besides that PP site where you worked)?

 

[georgia_md]

OP should change the title of this thread to "Flame war in progress: Trolls galore"

 

[trustwomen]

abortion providers don't typically advertise their email addresses. i have sent a few emails about a month ago to some organizations such as msfc & naf, which are very active in training. haven't heard anything back yet. it's not easy to get info on this topic, unfortunately.

I have worked for NAF, and among my duties was checking the website's inbox. They were always swamped with emails, most of them ugly and/or threatening.

MSFC is your best bet. Contact the chapter at the school nearest you, or contact the national office by PHONE (presumably they have a similar email problem).

The annual meeting is coming up soon, maybe they've been too busy to answer non-urgent emails.

 

[nibrocli]

I have worked for NAF, and among my duties was checking the website's inbox. They were always swamped with emails, most of them ugly and/or threatening.

MSFC is your best bet. Contact the chapter at the school nearest you, or contact the national office by PHONE (presumably they have a similar email problem).

The annual meeting is coming up soon, maybe they've been too busy to answer non-urgent emails.

thank you so much. SO much.

 

[trustwomen]

Why don't you go to FREIDA to find websites to all the pediatric residency programs and read info regarding their curriculums? If you don't get the answers you want, why don't you contact them and ask for yourself?

Odds are the training would not be part of a basic peds curriculum, though it might be part of an adolescent health fellowship.

Probably you'd have to work it into an elective and contact a local clinic (or go to a major city where there are many clinics).

Pediatricians who perform abortions have a special place in my heart. I have counseled a lot of tiny, scared, pregnant teens and preteens who could use a reassuring manner in the procedure room. I have seen many patients for whom a pediatric speculum needed to be used. I have helped arrest sexually abusive male relatives. I have also seen two cases where the hymen needed to be broken before the abortion could be performed (that's some bad luck right there) and another one where the patient requested a defibulation before the abortion was performed (one of my most inspiring moments was seeing my gentle and kind mentor perform that defibulation, free of charge - and seeing the patient's incredible gratitude afterwards).

 

[indo]

A pediatrician doing abortions is like a ford dealer burning down the ford factory.

 

[indo]

Does anyone recommend a whiskey?

 

[Dr. Will]

Odds are the training would not be part of a basic peds curriculum, though it might be part of an adolescent health fellowship.

That's my point. I've never heard of such a thing, and neither has my GF who is going into peds. I was just giving the poster a way to look up the info to end this flame war.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Anon, where have you been? I see you have decided to enlighten us all by answering the question.

Oops, no, you don't have an answer to the OP's question?? I guess you're not much help either ... you're just here to emote a personal attack, as usual.

Note that I posted some potential answers, unlike you.

And your commentary really clever: Yes, that's right OncoCaP is the ONLY PERSON who thinks the OP & friend are a troll. No one else sees a troll, nooooo.

You have great powers of observation. I await your next flame. I can always trust anon-y-mouse to stir things up with another acrid message; it should be equally bitter and uninformative.

Wow, a most mature reply from a PhD mid 40's individual with children. I guess your extensive life experience doesn't span the domain of civility though, even though it seems like you're the world's authority on everything else you've never experienced. I don't have any response to your ad hominems. It's patently obvious that you took the "bait" you accused someone of contriving, and the only "flames" that resulted were your posts. If you had left things completely alone, this would have cleared a cleaner path for more informative, useful responses, like the ones from trustwomen.

 

[OncoCaP]

Wow, a most mature reply from a PhD mid 40's individual with children. I guess your extensive life experience doesn't span the domain of civility though, even though it seems like you're the world's authority on everything else you've never experienced. I don't have any response to your ad hominems. It's patently obvious that you took the "bait" you accused someone of contriving, and the only "flames" that resulted were your posts. If you had left things completely alone, this would have cleared a cleaner path for more informative, useful responses, like the ones from trustwomen.

I guess your strategy for fighting trolls is to respond with personal attacks that are as inflammatory as possible? A fight fire with fire strategy? Let's burn the place down? Well played! I suppose if there was any doubt of this thread being a pointless & disrespectful exchange, you made sure to guide the conversation in that direction.

I'm not in my 40s (I'm younger), but I expect nothing less than another personal attack / flame from someone who is either stressed out or gets beaten up on a regular basis and then comes here to dish it out. I'm just curious, do you attack others because you feel insecure or do you find it is a stress reliever? Maybe you are practicing ego trips so you're ready when you get your MD? If you think that you'll jump on my case and then I will be "mature" about it by not pointing out, and *shudder* ridiculing the misplaced venom and obvious hypocrisy and errors in your statements, you are badly mistaken. If you are venting at my expense, don't expect an intellectual reply.

Anon-y-mouse, you come around and slam whoever seems to be closest to your reach. If you would actually go back and read my posts, they are a lot more civil than your rant and well within the spectrum of what normally goes on in SDN.

My suggestion is to find a more constructive way of letting out your frustrations or building up your ego or whatever you are trying to accomplish here. Even though I didn't agree with the OP & friend, I did my best to guide them to an answer.

Also, I mentioned several points that seem to have stuck: 1. An OB/GYN residency is pretty much the way the OP & friend will need to get the relevant training. There are peds fellowships & electives related to this, but they are apparently not that common, 2. Contact an advocacy organization for more information on alternative training options. The organization that was suggested was one of those that the OP's friend seemed to know about already (and simply a matter of picking up the phone instead of using email), and 3. This thread has resulted in a flame war not unlike threads from other trolls. Finally note that no one really answered the OP's question because apparently those kind of ped residences are essentially unheard of and to the extent that they do exist, the replies are sensitive information. The answer was at the fingertips of the people asking the question (outside SDN) and this thread was quite unnecessary and not well presented (with a smiley no less!).

Trustwomen provided excellent information, of course. You on the other hand, contributed nothing. It's a *STUDENT* doctor forum, not a meeting of experts on a particular subject. Anyone can post their opinion. If you don't like my messages, you can skip past them. But apparently that wouldn't satisfy a need you have to attack people.

 

[Dookter]

I don't really know why, but this thread disturbs me. Someone on here seems a little too enthused and cheerful about abortions....


Off to cram more...

 

[tacrum43]

Wow, a most mature reply from a PhD mid 40's individual with children. I guess your extensive life experience doesn't span the domain of civility though, even though it seems like you're the world's authority on everything else you've never experienced. I don't have any response to your ad hominems.

So ad hominems...yeah.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I'm not sure why I thought flames would be forthcoming on this thread.. guess I was way off-base when I said that

 

[OncoCaP]

I'm not sure why I thought flames would be forthcoming on this thread.. guess I was way off-base when I said that

Nostradamus would have been proud!!

 

[Tired]

thank you so much. SO much.

So someone suggests that you contact MSFC and you're this grateful? You were not aware of the organization, even though you previously mentioned them?

Such a troll . . .

 

[ForbiddenComma]

He had posted this same thread on the Doctors Lounge political forum of all places...

so, yep... gotta say he's a troll

 

[olliemctuffy]

OncoCap, why are you even on here? I was wondering how you had the time to consistently post so many longwinded responses in this and other threads (like the recent one about universal healthcare). Then I realized, thanks to anon-y-mous, that you are in research! So, you have tons of downtime to do stuff like this, I should know having received my PhD 2 years ago and have since started med school.

Do us all a favor and stop posting in here, you are not adding anything to the discussion.

Those of us who don't plan on doing ob, but would like to be able to provide our patients with full reproductive health care have a legitimate discussion going on here, please go away.

 

[OncoCaP]

OncoCap, why are you even on here? I was wondering how you had the time to consistently post so many longwinded responses in this and other threads (like the recent one about universal healthcare). Then I realized, thanks to anon-y-mous, that you are in research! So, you have tons of downtime to do stuff like this, I should know having received my PhD 2 years ago and have since started med school.

Do us all a favor and stop posting in here, you are not adding anything to the discussion.

Those of us who don't plan on doing ob, but would like to be able to provide our patients with full reproductive health care have a legitimate discussion going on here, please go away.

Oh, and you are adding to the conversation? What have you contributed?

I'm all for a legitimate conversation. Is there any information you can provide on this subject or are you just here to make personal attacks like anon-y-mouse?

With a troll-thread like this, it's going to be very hard to get much signal-to-noise ratio.

 

[Tired]

Um, each Planned Parenthood affiliate has its own medical director.

The national organization is a different story.

I'm not the person you're talking about, just thought I'd clear this up...

This is fun, because first you quote my post, basically call me stupid, and proceed to repeat everything I had just said, only with a "positive spin". If the procedure is so quick and benign, why do you mention that fentanyl/versed is the typical cocktail you've seen given? And why did you even bring that up after I had just mentioned morphine/versed?

And for the record, here's what our thread troll had written regarding the medical director of Planned Parenthood:

"the medical director of Planned Parenthood is a pediatrician."

Based on your post, I apparently was supposed to interpret this as "the medical director of a local Planned Parenthood I heard about once"? You didn't take this as "the national medical director"? And, as I pointed out, the national medical director of Planned Parenthood is not a Pediatrician, she's an Ob/Gyn. You had an issue with this? Why?

I find it fascinating that you would decide to take issue with my posts. If I have been factually inaccurate, I encourage you to point it out. My posts have been appropriately referenced (unlike your "2/3 to 3/4" comment, which apparently we should take your word on). I have also not espoused any kind of political position. All I have done is provide information, which you have decided to mimic, and called one user a troll.

Save your self-righteous advocacy for another thread. As the Resident Troll has said repeatedly, "Please try to stay on topic".

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Even though I didn't agree with the OP & friend, I did my best to guide them to an answer.

Also, I mentioned several points that seem to have stuck: 1. An OB/GYN residency is pretty much the way the OP & friend will need to get the relevant training. There are peds fellowships & electives related to this, but they are apparently not that common, 2. Contact an advocacy organization for more information on alternative training options. The organization that was suggested was one of those that the OP's friend seemed to know about already, and 3. This thread has resulted in a flame war not unlike threads from other trolls. Finally note that no one really answered the OP's question because even the replies are sensitive information. The answer was at the fingertips of the people asking the question (outside SDN) and this thread was quite unnecessary and not well presented (with a smiley no less!).

Trustwomen provided excellent information, of course. You on the other hand, contributed nothing. It's a *STUDENT* doctor forum, not a meeting of experts on a particular subject. Anyone can post their opinion. If you don't like my messages, you can skip past them. But apparently that wouldn't satisfy a need to you have slam people.

If you don't agree (and that disagreement is probably pretty significant given your "kill children" comment), then what could possibly prompt you to "do your best to guide them to an answer"?? Anything you say is going to be biased. "Tough luck finding someone to teach you outside the field of ob/gyn" obviously has a negative tone to it, especially if someone is asking for tips outside the ob/gyn path.

"Contact planned parenthood" is the most maudlin and banal piece of advice ever. It's like saying "go see a doctor" to someone with a gigantic gaping wound. If you consider that a useful post, I think you need to learn something about relevance.

My contribution was simply recognizing your deep seated bias + almost useless information and bringing it out into the open, and recognizing that your posts actually *create* the maelstrom of "troll-induced" backlash that you portended. You responded NOT because you're the Mother Teresa of information, or the patron saint of google, but because you had some other agenda.

And yes, it is a student doctor forum. The funny thing is, you are not yet a student doctor.

As for this whole issue, I'm looking forward to learning how to perform abortions and becoming an abortion provider. I hope that my med school's women's health interest group will research this topic further and sponsor abortion workshops in the future.

 

[Tired]

OncoCap, why are you even on here? I was wondering how you had the time to consistently post so many longwinded responses in this and other threads (like the recent one about universal healthcare). Then I realized, thanks to anon-y-mous, that you are in research! So, you have tons of downtime to do stuff like this, I should know having received my PhD 2 years ago and have since started med school.

Do us all a favor and stop posting in here, you are not adding anything to the discussion.

Those of us who don't plan on doing ob, but would like to be able to provide our patients with full reproductive health care have a legitimate discussion going on here, please go away.

Oh look, a user with 17 posts is trying to make a point.

Seriously anon-y-mouse, you shouldn't keep multiple accounts.

 

[OncoCaP]

If you don't agree (and that disagreement is probably pretty significant given your "kill children" comment), then what could possibly prompt you to "do your best to guide them to an answer"?? Anything you say is going to be biased. "Tough luck finding someone to teach you outside the field of ob/gyn" obviously has a negative tone to it, especially if someone is asking for tips outside the ob/gyn path.

"Contact planned parenthood" is the most maudlin piece of advice ever. It's like saying "go see a doctor" to someone with a gigantic gaping wound. If you consider that a useful post, I think you need to learn something about relevance.

My contribution was simply recognizing your deep seated bias + almost useless information and bringing it out into the open, and recognizing that your posts actually *create* the maelstrom of "troll-induced" backlash that you portended. You responded NOT because you're the Mother Teresa of information, or the patron saint of google, but because you had some other agenda.

And yes, it is a student doctor forum. The funny thing is, you are not yet a student doctor.

As for this whole issue, I'm looking forward to learning how to perform abortions and becoming an abortion provider. I hope that my med school's women's health interest group will research this topic further and sponsor abortion workshops in the future.

Much better. I appreciate your effort to tone down the personal attacks and talk more about the issues (far from perfect, but a nice start). Let me make a suggestion: Ignore my messages from now on. Don't read them & don't reply to them. In fact, you can stop reading my message now and skip to the next person's message. If you do read my messages and reply, I'll take it that you have some interest, whether sensible or not. Do realize I'm not planning to stop posting or whatever it is that you have in mind in your "agenda."

I posted my opinion precisely because I wish to disclose my bias. Yes, I'm biased. I was up-front about it. This thread attracted my attention because there are some serious issues with it. It was worth a look, and I had the time. Even though I may disagree strongly with someone doesn't mean that I can't answer a question or engage in a conversation. Is the OP & friend going to give up their goal of becoming an abortion provider because of something I say -- no. Perhaps there is some opportunity for informal conversation & discussion, and there appeared to be some. Overall, it's not been a pretty sight because of the way this was presented and nature of the subject.

My agenda on this thread is simple informal conversation, even leisure. I'm not entirely opposed to abortion, as for example, when the mother's life is in danger, so I do believe there are legitimate reasons for an abortion. However, with respect to this thread, I have no agenda other than to enjoy myself, maybe help out a few people along the way, and make a few informal friends. If my information is helpful, great. If not, then there are thousands of other messages for people to read. I find it entertaining to read posts from Tired, Panda, DKM, ForbiddenComma, etc. This seems like a great place to have some fun, exchange, and critique ideas. I enjoy this forum in a way that you seem to be unable to do without attacking someone. Also, I think I'm getting a few bits of information about what is coming up in my experience. In a way, I don't expect to have this much free time in medical school and in my medical career, so I'm enjoying this while it lasts, so to speak.

The fact that you seem to totally miss is that the OP is a troll (whether they realize it or not) and that this thread will generate no information that you or anyone else can't get from a much better source. The little bit that was shared here is grossly outweighed by useless flames like your initial reply to me. The fact that the thread hasn't been closed (yet) suggests that people have been making an effort to keep the conversation civil. I would argue that your posts, particularly your early ones that were nothing more than personal attacks have not been very helpful in this regard. This isn't the first time you have done this. I've noticed this behavior on a couple of your messages to various people.

 

[kelaskov]

Thanks for the helpful responses especially regarding specific programs like the one in the bronx- Peds/Albert Einstein. Further information on specific programs is appreciated.

Does anyone know any IM residency programs which provide medical abortion training?

Also, do all FP and Peds residencies routinely teach IUD insertion? Please update us with specific information on IUD training at your institution.

I know that the FP Residency affiliated with my medical school, UNECOM, had IUD training as part of training. I'm unsure of how many insertions each resident needs to perform to meet the requirement.

 

[Tired]

As for this whole issue, I'm looking forward to learning how to perform abortions and becoming an abortion provider. I hope that my med school's women's health interest group will research this topic further and sponsor abortion workshops in the future.

Gosh, look how unbiased you are!

Just a tip, in the future you might want to avoid knocking other people for their "bias" when yours drips out your own pores.

 

[8744]

Oats....I wish I had some oats....oh the pain....mother....I see the green pastures.....I'm galloping towards the light....the pain is leaving me....why is that man beating me?....I'm dying and he keeps beating me...

 

[Gut Shot]

Does anyone recommend a whiskey?

Maker's Mark is probably the best of the commonly available bourbons.

If you want pain, and I mean sheer pain, try Ancient Age. You'll vomit. I promise.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Oats....I wish I had some oats....oh the pain....mother....I see the green pastures.....I'm galloping towards the light....the pain is leaving me....why is that man beating me?....I'm dying and he keeps beating me...

Its a race, I can taste the saltiness, the flow is moving fast and others keep swimming into me. Ahh finally I escape this retched channel. But wait, why is there a Kleenex? Father why are you treating me like your mucus? I'm dying as the cold water from the toilet basin removes the nourishment...if only I had a chance at life!