Gen Surg Rank List

[Meninge_yo_mama]

Curious as to what the SDN strangers have to say about the top end of my rank list... Making this list is already causing angst. In no particular order:

- Louisville
- UTSW
- UAB
- UC Davis

Thanks!


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[vhawk]

Pretty good balance of full names and acronyms.

 

[Meninge_yo_mama]

Pretty good balance of full names and acronyms.

Thank you for you informative and helpful... oh wait.


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[VincentAdultman]

Thank you for you informative and helpful... oh wait.


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You have a list of programs. Ok? Everyone has a different idea of what a good surgical residency is, every program has strengths and weaknesses, and no one know what specifically your looking for. So you ROL is pretty meaningless in a vaccuum except to let everyone know that you interviewed at UTSW, Louisville, Davis, and whatever AUB (UAB?) is.

 

[swoopyswoop]

What do you like about each of the programs?

 

[Meninge_yo_mama]

What do you like about each of the programs?

UC Davis has few fellows, I just generally liked the residents and the ‘feel’ of the program. This is the program I know the least about in terms of what operative experience their residents get. Their fellowship placements are solid. Good trauma experience.

UAB has great operative experience, liked the residents, great fellowship opportunities. Not totally sure about Birmingham, but know it has excellent COL. Also liked their trauma exposure. Seems like residents are protected from fellows.

Louisville is obviously legendary, great trauma and operative independence. They were very vocal about protecting residents’ operative experience in regards to fellows.

UTSW is big, maybe too big? Also has a lot of fellows which seem to impact the resident experience to a certain extent. Great trauma with Parkland, really like having rotations at a county hospital. Loved the residents.

Thanks!



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[swoopyswoop]

In general, the less fellows, the more 'big' cases the chiefs get to do. You've described the programs very similarly except for UTSW. They're in very different locations so that's another way to differentiate them.

 

[doc05]

Also don't overestimate the importance of "trauma" experience.

 

[SpecializedSurgeon]

UC Davis has few fellows, I just generally liked the residents and the ‘feel’ of the program. This is the program I know the least about in terms of what operative experience their residents get. Their fellowship placements are solid. Good trauma experience.

UAB has great operative experience, liked the residents, great fellowship opportunities. Not totally sure about Birmingham, but know it has excellent COL. Also liked their trauma exposure. Seems like residents are protected from fellows.

Louisville is obviously legendary, great trauma and operative independence. They were very vocal about protecting residents’ operative experience in regards to fellows.

UTSW is big, maybe too big? Also has a lot of fellows which seem to impact the resident experience to a certain extent. Great trauma with Parkland, really like having rotations at a county hospital. Loved the residents.

Thanks!



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I’d contest the statement about UTSW fellows impacting the residents’ experience. With a single exception, it’s a resident-focused program and the fellows are there to act as junior faculty and/or act completely independent of the chiefs (eg the fellows have their own trauma team in the rotation, never competing with the chiefs). But I am biased.

That said, you can’t go wrong with any of the programs on your list. Rank them in order of where you felt like you’d fit in.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I think you can break it down to three things:

1. Will you get the training you need to be a competent general surgeon?

2. Do you get along with your prospective fellow residents?

3. Could you spend 5-7 years in that area?

Spoiler alert: the answer to number one is pretty much universally "yes."

Take this FWIW. I'm an Orthopedic Surgeon so it's a miracle I could type a post this long.

 

[TypeADissection]

I think you can break it down to three things:

1. Will you get the training you need to be a competent general surgeon?

2. Do you get along with your prospective fellow residents?

3. Could you spend 5-7 years in that area?

Spoiler alert: the answer to number one is pretty much universally "yes."

Take this FWIW. I'm an Orthopedic Surgeon so it's a miracle I could type a post this long.

What's the hardest decision an orthopod must make on his wedding night?

Which side of the bed the rep should stand on

 

[VincentAdultman]

What's the hardest decision an orthopod must make on his wedding night?

Which side of the bed the rep should stand on

That's pretty good. A lot better than the "hide the dollar in a book" clunker that I've heard for like ten years now.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

That's pretty good. A lot better than the "hide the dollar in a book" clunker that I've heard for like ten years now.

Have you seen this important study?

Orthopaedic surgeons: as strong as an ox and almost twice as clever? Multicentre prospective comparative study

 

[MediCane2006]

What's the hardest decision an orthopod must make on his wedding night?

Which side of the bed the rep should stand on

That’s actually hilarious. I’m texting it to all my buddies and taking full credit.

 

[droliver]

UAB has great operative experience, liked the residents, great fellowship opportunities. Not totally sure about Birmingham, but know it has excellent COL.

Birmingham is actually a great place to live. Less impressed with UAB as a place to train, particularly after talking with the community surgery residents that rotate with us that spend time there on transplant and trauma. Nobody in the history of the world has probably called it a "great operative experience" on the resident side. They do get good global trauma and critical care experience, but I don't think that's what most people select their training program on. I get the impression from interviewing resident applicants and MS4 rotators at the Baptist Health Residency that most of their own students do not want to stay there.

While I finished residency Louisville almost 15 years ago, the things I liked about it are largely still in place. The chair, Kelly McMasters, is a good guy. About a dozen of my junior/senior residents are attendings. It has such a nice mix of settings (trauma center, private hospitals, VA, rural Kentucky) where you work that it always kept things fresh. Louisville is also just a beautiful and interesting city.

 

[Khekhen]

Birmingham is actually a great place to live. Less impressed with UAB as a place to train, particularly after talking with the community surgery residents that rotate with us that spend time there on transplant and trauma. Nobody in the history of the world has probably called it a "great operative experience" on the resident side. They do get good global trauma and critical care experience, but I don't think that's what most people select their training program on. I get the impression from interviewing resident applicants and MS4 rotators at the Baptist Health Residency that most of their own students do not want to stay there.

While I finished residency Louisville almost 15 years ago, the things I liked about it are largely still in place. The chair, Kelly McMasters, is a good guy. About a dozen of my junior/senior residents are attendings. It has such a nice mix of settings (trauma center, private hospitals, VA, rural Kentucky) where you work that it always kept things fresh. Louisville is also just a beautiful and interesting city.

Current UAB junior resident. While I don’t know how things were 15 years ago, currently at UAB operative experience is very much the focus even early on. Chiefs regularly finish with 1200-1500 cases and I’ve been in rooms watching early 5th years complete 80-90% of “fellow level” cases by themselves (with the attending right there of course) on services like colorectal and HPB. Not to mention our chiefs regularly match for fellowships at MDA,MSK,Bringham, Vanderbilt, Cornell and other top places for Surg Onc, CT, Vascular. We take 8 residents a year and each class has 2-3 UAB students that decide to stay here (my class has 3).

Even as interns, we are always pushed to the OR (of course you have to complete the floor work first) but we have plenty of mid-levels that help and their philosophy is “you’re here to learn to be a surgeon” so they’re happy to help you get in the OR as much as you can.

UAB is a great place to train, as an intern, I have 75 junior resident cases logged where I was walked through the case by an upper level or an attending and the year is only half-over (total I have a little over 95 cases logged). Yes the cases have been small (ie melanoma excisions, lymph node dissections, amputations, hernias) but I’m very much learning the basics of surgery (suturing, using to Bovie correctly, getting into the abdomen).

Birmingham so far has been wonderful, prolly not the most “exciting” town if you’re single but it’s super affordable, the weather is nice and you’re within driving distance of the beach and Atlanta. Plus the scenery around the city is beautiful (we’re surrounded by mountains) and there’s TONS of outdoor stuff to do.

There’s tons of other things I like about our program and Birmingham so please PM with any questions, but the idea that we don’t operate here at UAB is simply NOT true.