General anesthesiology for a little bit after pain fellowship?

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apr27

apr27

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Just wondering what the community here thinks about a brief stint in GA after fellowship. It’s been tough finding a decent job and the few positions I thought I had fell through unfortunately. I’m in a position now where I don’t have any more time to take off for interviews.

Anyway, I was considering doing gas at my current institution as faculty or MSP/locums. Obviously, there are differences in salary, benefits, and flexibility with these options.

Would it look bad or be bad for my career if I did GA for several months to a year while I tried lining up a pain job I like?
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Not a bad idea, anesthesia is getting paid bonkers right now
 
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Northern California Private Practice Ortho Group

My group is looking to hire another interventional pain doc due to volume and community need. I’m anesthesia/pain and do mostly bread and butter injections, lots of RFA, some joint injections, and some SCS, and my partner who is PM&R/spine fellowship does lumbar interventions and EMGs...
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mid|ine said:
forums.studentdoctor.net

Northern California Private Practice Ortho Group

My group is looking to hire another interventional pain doc due to volume and community need. I’m anesthesia/pain and do mostly bread and butter injections, lots of RFA, some joint injections, and some SCS, and my partner who is PM&R/spine fellowship does lumbar interventions and EMGs...
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The surgery center affiliated with our group is paying an unbelievable amount for locums anesthesia right now.
 
apr27 said:
Just wondering what the community here thinks about a brief stint in GA after fellowship. It’s been tough finding a decent job and the few positions I thought I had fell through unfortunately. I’m in a position now where I don’t have any more time to take off for interviews.

Anyway, I was considering doing gas at my current institution as faculty or MSP/locums. Obviously, there are differences in salary, benefits, and flexibility with these options.

Would it look bad or be bad for my career if I did GA for several months to a year while I tried lining up a pain job I like?
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In certain parts of the country, the pain market is pretty bad right now. You aren't alone, but going the anesthesia route and making some good money will figuring out next moves is a much better idea than taking a lame pain gig.
 
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Don’t take a pain job you don’t think will pan out, anesthesia is paying well, would take a GA job and keep an eye out.
 
I live in SoCal and the pain job market is absolute garbage. Chalk it up as a sunk cost if you live out here lol. Meanwhile, my gf who is a fresh anesthesia attending is getting offers left and right for >400-500k with bennies. The answer is OBVIOUS.
 
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sloh said:
I live in SoCal and the pain job market is absolute garbage. Chalk it up as a sunk cost if you live out here lol. Meanwhile, my gf who is a fresh anesthesia attending is getting offers left and right for >400-500k with bennies. The answer is OBVIOUS.
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The money is there sure, but the nights, weekends, holidays, people trying to crash on you. Meh.

I’d take a solid, FAIR, ethically sound, slightly lower paying pain job any day of the week.
 
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sloh said:
I live in SoCal and the pain job market is absolute garbage. Chalk it up as a sunk cost if you live out here lol. Meanwhile, my gf who is a fresh anesthesia attending is getting offers left and right for >400-500k with bennies. The answer is OBVIOUS.
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What can a new pain graduate expect out of the average pain job in SoCal? Obviously there are a lot of variables (private vs. kaiser vs. location within SoCal) but just wondering about the state of affairs in that area...
 
HemorrhagicShock said:
What can a new pain graduate expect out of the average pain job in SoCal? Obviously there are a lot of variables (private vs. kaiser vs. location within SoCal) but just wondering about the state of affairs in that area...
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If you mean pay, I’d say the average non HOPD salary for a new pain grad in SoCal is around 250K, but some places will offer new grads 200K (or less) with a straight face.

Kaiser pays as much as many of the average SoCal pain jobs…if you’re anesthesia/pain.

Bay area starting pay is much better, 100-150K over SoCal.
 
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bedrock said:
If you mean pay, I’d say the average non HOPD salary for a new pain grad in SoCal is around 250K, but some places will offer new grads 200K (or less) with a straight face.

Kaiser pays as much as many of the average SoCal pain jobs…if you’re anesthesia/pain.

Bay area starting pay is much better, 100-150K over SoCal.
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from my experience on previous interview trail and hearsay of others, the range of community private practice pain is 200-350k .
kaiser seems to always be a 50/50 anesthesia/pain gig
 
An anesthesiology resident ready to earn 400K takes a pain fellowship only to graduate to make $250K-300K? What am I missing?
 
Yale Medicine said:
An anesthesiology resident ready to earn 400K takes a pain fellowship only to graduate to make $250K-300K? What am I missing?
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Because pay is random and cyclical in medicine. Pain you have a shot of owning and growing something while in gas you working for your overload
 
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also because some of us actually like helping people in pain more than the OR, or worse, directing CRNAs.
 
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Yale Medicine said:
An anesthesiology resident ready to earn 400K takes a pain fellowship only to graduate to make $250K-300K? What am I missing?
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LA is the worst market for pain physicians in the entire country, Important to understand that.

Average pain physician salary across entire US is approx 430, but many many hospital employed docs and owners of private practices make approx 500-800, depending various factors. And there are posters on this forum that make seven figures.

Anesthesia has a higher floor, but Pain has a higher ceiling across the country as a whole.

But anesthesia can make that 400K in every large city such as NYC, Chicago, Seattle, pain will exceed 400K if hospital employeed, but often less if in private practice in a large metro.
 
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bedrock said:
LA is the worst market for pain physicians in the entire country, Important to understand that.

Average pain physician salary across entire US is approx 430, but many many hospital employed docs and owners of private practices make approx 500-800, depending various factors. And there are posters on this forum that make seven figures.

Anesthesia has a higher floor, but Pain has a higher ceiling across the country as a whole.

But anesthesia can make that 400K in every large city such as NYC, Chicago, Seattle, pain will exceed 400K if hospital employeed, but often less if in private practice in a large metro.
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So for the OP, would you say he or she should take a pain job despite low salary if they see potential in it to either be partner or hosptial employed with good productivity incentive. Or should he or she make money while they can with a high paying GA job and do some call while young?
 
bedrock said:
If you mean pay, I’d say the average non HOPD salary for a new pain grad in SoCal is around 250K, but some places will offer new grads 200K (or less) with a straight face.

Kaiser pays as much as many of the average SoCal pain jobs…if you’re anesthesia/pain.

Bay area starting pay is much better, 100-150K over SoCal.
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FWIW, I'm finishing up fellowship. I took a SoCal pain job. 400-500 range.
 
Slowpoke said:
FWIW, I'm finishing up fellowship. I took a SoCal pain job. 400-500 range.
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Appreciate the data point.
Are you HOPD employed, pain practice, or orthopedic group?
How much of your pay is guaranteed salary?
And must importantly, how does it take to drive to the ocean from that location on a weekday?
 
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bedrock said:
LA is the worst market for pain physicians in the entire country, Important to understand that.

Average pain physician salary across entire US is approx 430, but many many hospital employed docs and owners of private practices make approx 500-800, depending various factors. And there are posters on this forum that make seven figures.

Anesthesia has a higher floor, but Pain has a higher ceiling across the country as a whole.

But anesthesia can make that 400K in every large city such as NYC, Chicago, Seattle, pain will exceed 400K if hospital employeed, but often less if in private practice in a large metro.
Click to expand...
bedrock said:
LA is the worst market for pain physicians in the entire country, Important to understand that.

Average pain physician salary across entire US is approx 430, but many many hospital employed docs and owners of private practices make approx 500-800, depending various factors. And there are posters on this forum that make seven figures.

Anesthesia has a higher floor, but Pain has a higher ceiling across the country as a whole.

But anesthesia can make that 400K in every large city such as NYC, Chicago, Seattle, pain will exceed 400K if hospital employeed, but often less if in private practice in a large metro.
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NYC floor is now 500 k , with cal mixed in , no call no weekends 400k … not bad
 
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bedrock said:
Appreciate the data point.
Are you HOPD employed, pain practice, or orthopedic group?
How much of your pay is guaranteed salary?
And must importantly, how does it take to drive to the ocean from that location on a weekday?
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If this is truly SoCal as in Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Malibu, Palos Verdes, OC/Irvine/Newport Beach, Calabasas, Pasadena then it is truly the land of milk and honey. Curious as well
 
bedrock said:
Appreciate the data point.
Are you HOPD employed, pain practice, or orthopedic group?
How much of your pay is guaranteed salary?
And must importantly, how does it take to drive to the ocean from that location on a weekday?
Click to expand...

Trying to stay anonymous on this board:
HOPD employed
Mid 300s
about 10 miles from the beach (and I'll be living several blocks from the beach and commuting against traffic to work)
 
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sloh said:
If this is truly SoCal as in Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Malibu, Palos Verdes, OC/Irvine/Newport Beach, Calabasas, Pasadena then it is truly the land of milk and honey. Curious as well
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Yes, it is one of these listed cities!
 
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Slowpoke said:
Trying to stay anonymous on this board:
HOPD employed
Mid 300s
about 10 miles from the beach (and I'll be living several blocks from the beach and commuting against traffic to work)
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Thank you.

that makes sense for HOPD SoCal job.

Not for SoCal pain practice or orthopedic group.

I knew a pain doc making 185K base salary with a San Diego ortho group! Though she only worked there for a couple years while her husband finished his longer residency.
 
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Ronin1 said:
That’s pretty low for a HOPD in general. If that truly what is the going rate in California I would move. There are beaches in other states
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I'm good for now. thanks.
 
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Ronin1 said:
That’s pretty low for a HOPD in general. If that truly what is the going rate in California I would move. There are beaches in other states
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Seems like a good gig but I would agree with you. 350k won't cut it in SoCal factoring in kids and house in nice neighborhood with good schools. With a spouse who makes just as much 700k household income **might** be ok.
 
sloh said:
Seems like a good gig but I would agree with you. 350k won't cut it in SoCal factoring in kids and house in nice neighborhood with good schools. With a spouse who makes just as much 700k household income **might** be ok.
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I guess that's true as a generalization? My opinion is that its all dependent on one's lifestyle. I'm quite simple and I have no kids. I made upper east side Manhattan work on a resident's salary. I think I'll be able to manage.
 
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Yeah if you have no kids and don't really care to own a house, it's fine. That's why I said "factoring in kids and house in nice neighborhood with good schools." When I first moved back out here I made 250-300k working for Kaiser. It was fine. Not if I was thinking about a house and kids though.
 
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i think it is important to live in a location and environment that one deems provides them with a good quality of life irrespective of the financial implications, because in the end that is what matters.


but some people get so focused on $$$ and whoever has the biggest whatever....
 
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Ducttape said:
i think it is important to live in a location and environment that one deems provides them with a good quality of life irrespective of the financial implications, because in the end that is what matters.


but some people get so focused on $$$ and whoever has the biggest whatever....
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Money cannot buy happiness. At least once you hit $75000/year. (per studies).
But I do have 7 cars. Jeep Gladiator (me), Subaru Crosstrek (daughter), Tesla S (son), BMW X4 (wife), 2000 Jeep XJ (dog), 1990 Grand Wagoneer (love it), Superlite GTR (home built race car). Total cost less than 1 Ferrari. 1000's of hours with family and friends using our hands and brains making things work.
 
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lobelsteve said:
Money cannot buy happiness. At least once you hit $75000/year. (per studies).
But I do have 7 cars. Jeep Gladiator (me), Subaru Crosstrek (daughter), Tesla S (son), BMW X4 (wife), 2000 Jeep XJ (dog), 1990 Grand Wagoneer (love it), Superlite GTR (home built race car). Total cost less than 1 Ferrari. 1000's of hours with family and friends using our hands and brains making things work.
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That # is changing. One study said happiness peaked at $75,000 in income. Now, economists say it's higher — by a lot.

Wow, you do a great job of taking care of your family.
 
my kids have all those cars.

and a ferrari and a lambo.

but they have these cars on roblox, or in the case of the eldest, GT7...

thats all i can afford...
 
lobelsteve said:
Money cannot buy happiness. At least once you hit $75000/year. (per studies).
But I do have 7 cars. Jeep Gladiator (me), Subaru Crosstrek (daughter), Tesla S (son), BMW X4 (wife), 2000 Jeep XJ (dog), 1990 Grand Wagoneer (love it), Superlite GTR (home built race car). Total cost less than 1 Ferrari. 1000's of hours with family and friends using our hands and brains making things work.
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How do you all like your model S? Thinking of a Model 3.
 
Norepi said:
How do you all like your model S? Thinking of a Model 3.
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In the shop. Lexus Rx330 swerved into my lane and hit on the front right rim. The rim cracked longitudinally along the face.

Like this:

1683556032783.png


Getting checked to make sure nothing else went wrong. No body damage I can see.
Besides that it is a rocket. Range about 250 in normal driving.
 
Ducttape said:
i think it is important to live in a location and environment that one deems provides them with a good quality of life irrespective of the financial implications, because in the end that is what matters.


but some people get so focused on $$$ and whoever has the biggest whatever....
Click to expand...

The financial implications matter a lot more when you actually have a family and kids. You guys who don’t actually live in SoCal have no idea how much it actually costs to keep your head above water here, much less thrive.

Coming out of residency, it’s easy to say money doesn’t matter much. I did the same. Until reality really slaps you in the face.
 
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I don't think mid 300s is that bad for socal assuming you have a significant other pulling some weight. sure you won't be buying homes on the coast and in fact you may be somewhat house poor but if you live modestly, then you can live quite comfortably in socal. our dreams of owning waterfront property on lido island is long gone but we make it work and live in a great city still (beach city adjacent) . we moved back for family and I wouldn't have that any other way.

like I couldn't fathom doing pain fellowship at dartmouth, kansas, wake forest or penn given my family situation etc. having grandparents and kids' cousins and all the uncles/aunts to help take care and influence my kids are worth its weight in gold.
 
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...any of yall ever think about retirement?

I do.
 
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MitchLevi said:
...any of yall ever think about retirement?

I do.
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All the time. Setting it up now, plan to retire in 5 years after working in PP pain for 16 years now since fellowship, 8 years in solo PP. We're not getting any younger, time to enjoy.
 
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