General broad MSTP question

[Steve16]

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I have recently been reading up on MD/PhD, My long term goals are;

1. surgical specialty
2. work in large teaching hospital
3. Teach
4. perhaps some research


Would it be appropriate to pursue a combined degree in this circumstance. If I plan on spending most of my time in Clinic, and unevenly splitting the rest of my time between in the class and in the lab, favoring the class over lab.

Also, would a side benefit of an MD/PhD give me the research experience to match into very competitive residencies. Thanks.

 

[j-weezy]

I have recently been reading up on MD/PhD, My long term goals are;

1. surgical specialty
2. work in large teaching hospital
3. Teach
4. perhaps some research


Would it be appropriate to pursue a combined degree in this circumstance. If I plan on spending most of my time in Clinic, and unevenly splitting the rest of my time between in the class and in the lab, favoring the class over lab.

Also, would a side benefit of an MD/PhD give me the research experience to match into very competitive residencies. Thanks.

MD/PhD is generally for people committed to research (thus the PhD)

From the looks of your goals, I'd say maybe you'd be better going just MD and perhaps a research fellowship...

MD/PhD is also a long road for someone who doesn't want to spend at least 50% (realistically more like 70% or more) of their time doing research, writing grants, etc.

 

[Picklesali]

In general, people enter MD/PhD programs with the intent to do mostly research. While it is true that the PhD may help you with competitive residencies, I think it would likely be a waste of time in your case as you are considering doing MAYBE a LITTLE research. Surgery residencies are very long, so you will really want to consider the fact that pursuing the PhD will delay you 3-5 years.

It is still very possible to do quality research without the PhD. To help aid you for residency applications, you can do a scholarly project in med school, or even take a 5th year to do research. Or, if you are interested, you can apply for "research residencies" and get some training that way.

 

[gbwillner]

I have recently been reading up on MD/PhD, My long term goals are;

1. surgical specialty
2. work in large teaching hospital
3. Teach
4. perhaps some research


Would it be appropriate to pursue a combined degree in this circumstance. If I plan on spending most of my time in Clinic, and unevenly splitting the rest of my time between in the class and in the lab, favoring the class over lab.

Also, would a side benefit of an MD/PhD give me the research experience to match into very competitive residencies. Thanks.

Simple answer:
No.

Complex answer:
1- If you are dead-set on a surgical specialty, it will be nearly impossible to do basic science research (that's why you get the PhD.). This is for several reasons: a) your residency is already 5 years wherein there will be minimal (if not zero) time for research. You are looking at a MINIMUM 5 years + fellowship. b) your skills as a surgeon are dependent on practice, and taking time out of your schedule to do research will make you a worse surgeon. c) (most important) no one will hire you. The hospital you work for will rather have someone else who spends 100% of their time doing surgery. Yes, surgical departments do research, but it is either clinical research (no PhD needed) or performed by PhDs in the department. Big wigs do run labs, but generally they are very removed from the actual work, and tend to just have their name attached. Of course, there are always exceptions and I bet there are more than a few good physician-scientists that are surgeons.

2- Teaching does not equal PhD unless you want to teach basic sciences to college students and grad students.

3- Unless you are sure you want to have a serious science component to your career, it is just not worth it to pursue this route. You will definitely drop out of the program during grad school when you realize you don't want to do research for the rest of your life. Based on your questions, it is doubtful you would be admitted to such a program without dedication to research anyways.

Good luck

 

[seraph524]

I'll also agree with j-weezy and pickles - that the MD/PhD route is for individuals who love research, or rather, to be involved in biomedical research. The future careers of MD/PhD is mainly 80-20, research-clinic, from what I've gathered talking to current MD/PhD professors.

Of course, that doesn't automatically eliminate the possibility of doing surgery. I met a girl at Duke who is studying neuroscience who wants to become a neurosurgeon.

 

[Steve16]

Thanks for all your replies.

My main question is whether surgical specialties with rapidly progressing knowledge-bases (neurosurg for example) would look favorably on an MD/PhD. Theoretically they would have a better understanding of the new developments in the field.

 

[meowkat444]

the simple answer is yes, it would help you land a neurosurg residency. but i think the message from all of us here is that you really shouldn't do it only for that reason! just not worth it.

 

[solumanculver]

Hey, I met a guy on one of my interviews who was interviewing for neurosurgery residencies. I think it's crazy though... that's 8 years plus 7 years... and you know that the university will be putting constant pressure on you to spend more of your time doing brain surgeries and less time doing research.

Oh, for the OP: By "research", did you mean clinical or basic science research? If you meant clinical research then there is simply no reason to do the PhD whatsoever.

 

[Myempire1]

I am chiming in to offer the less popular opinion (which happens to be my own).

While most MSTPers discourage a surgical career path, it's all up to you. There are multiple paths. I fell in love with surgery unexpectedly. I was very concerned because I loave research too. But when I looked into it, I found that some surgical specialties are packed with MD/PhDs. And you don't necessarily have to give up research, if you go into such fields. For example, research is a huge tradition in neurosurgery and most residency programs have a protected built-in mini-post-doc period. Of course, you don't go into surgery, unless you love the OR and intend to spend at least half of your time there. But you can still do research. This all being said, I doubt MSTP is worth it unless you love research and want to make it big part of your life.

 

[Hard24Get]

Right. There are a number of MD-PhDs successfully doing research. If research is a maybe for you, obviously the MD-PhD is a waste of time, and you are better off spending the extra energy doing well in med school and maybe a year off doing research if you are interested in a competitive field like ENT or neurosurg. Keep in mind that research will also be included in most academic residencies (even up to two years in 7yr Gen surg residencies).

I am chiming in to offer the less popular opinion (which happens to be my own).

While most MSTPers discourage a surgical career path, it's all up to you. There are multiple paths. I fell in love with surgery unexpectedly. I was very concerned because I loave research too. But when I looked into it, I found that some surgical specialties are packed with MD/PhDs. And you don't necessarily have to give up research, if you go into such fields. For example, research is a huge tradition in neurosurgery and most residency programs have a protected built-in mini-post-doc period. Of course, you don't go into surgery, unless you love the OR and intend to spend at least half of your time there. But you can still do research. This all being said, I doubt MSTP is worth it unless you love research and want to make it big part of your life.

 

[FutureNeuroStud]

Right. There are a number of MD-PhDs successfully doing research. If research is a maybe for you, obviously the MD-PhD is a waste of time, and you are better off spending the extra energy doing well in med school and maybe a year off doing research if you are interested in a competitive field like ENT or neurosurg. Keep in mind that research will also be included in most academic residencies (even up to two years in 7yr Gen surg residencies).

I'm with these two. In your case, you seem really uncertain about the whole thing. So I'd say that an MD/PhD is probably not for you. However, for others out there, don't rule out surgery just because you're heading down the MD/PhD path. There's a lot of great research going on in many surgical fields, especially neuro, ortho, and trauma. A lot of it is clinical, some is basic science, and some has hit the translational stage. Regardless, including surgeons who have significant formal research training (a PhD) can only benefit the quality of those studies and strengthen their applicability to the field.

On another point, the purpose of the MD/PhD is to translate between PhDs and MDs. I know a lot of people argue that this doesn't really occur in practice, but I disagree. It's important to find a way for clinicians and researchers to communicate effectively and MD/PhDs mediate that process. Not to say that PhDs can't do a good translational study, but the clinical training that MD/PhDs receive contributes significantly to their ability to figure out just how to make a rodent/test tube study applicable to human disease.