General Extracurricular Guidelines?

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kkooko

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Hi,

I already read Goro's guide and searched on the search-bar. I wasn't able to find anything too specific pertaining to which types of EC's and time devotion.

I know clinical/nonclinical exist, but how should this be broken down?
How many of each?
How many hours?

I would appreciate it if someone could please provide me a baseline basis for which specific types of extracurriculars to pursue and how many of each type as well as how many hours so that I can be a competitive applicant.

Also, are "cookie cutter" ECs enough nowadays for medical school acceptances, given a high mcat and gpa? What does it take for top ranked meds?

Thank you

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Have you read any of the WAMC threads? You’ll find students with hundreds if not thousands of hours of volunteering, service to the community and outside interests. Spend some time reading.

Generally you need around 50 hours of shadowing, including some with a primary care doc. At least 150 hours of direct patient contact(clinical experience) and at least 150 hours of non clinical volunteering to the unserved/underserved in your community. You should also exhibit leadership skills and something that makes you interesting. Cookie cutter applicants are plentiful. You want to stand out among the thousands of applications reviewers read. Do you have a hobby, a talent, a skill? Are you an athlete? Remember that only around 40 percent of applicants are accepted each cycle so it’s up to you to sell yourself starting with your primary application.
 
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Have you read any of the WAMC threads? You’ll find students with hundreds if not thousands of hours of volunteering, service to the community and outside interests. Spend some time reading.

Generally you need around 50 hours of shadowing, including some with a primary care doc. At least 150 hours of direct patient contact(clinical experience) and at least 150 hours of non clinical volunteering to the unserved/underserved in your community. You should also exhibit leadership skills and something that makes you interesting. Cookie cutter applicants are plentiful. You want to stand out among the thousands of applications reviewers read. Do you have a hobby, a talent, a skill? Are you an athlete? Remember that only around 40 percent of applicants are accepted each cycle so it’s up to you to sell yourself starting with your primary application.

Thanks for your response. I did not know there was a chances section. I apologize. I am new to the forum

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Beyond the cookie-cutters, I think I am going to work with low income and immigrant communities because it reflects my past. In terms of hobbies, I enjoy running. I also am likely going to be on the debate team for my college. I don't think I'll do anything too serious with debate though since upper level debate requires 30 hours a week + frequent travelling. Should I? I have a great opportunity to be on a nationally highly-ranked LAC's debate team. Not sure if the time dedication is worth it since it will hinder with academics and other premed extracurriculars.

Skills would be empathetical/interpersonal intelligence. I aim to start a project during college based upon serving underprivileged communities since I am able to relate and understand such needs due to my background.

And no, I am not an athlete.

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I now understand the "cookie-cutter" activities. I am still unsure of how to stand out from the thousands of applications read. Would you have any further tips? I am frankly a boring person.

Thank you
 
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I don't think I'll do anything too serious with debate though since upper level debate requires 30 hours a week + frequent travelling. Should I? I have a great opportunity to be on a nationally highly-ranked LAC's debate team. Not sure if the time dedication is worth it since it will hinder with academics and other premed extracurriculars..

Thank you

Actually, being on a nationally ranked debate team is a big deal and quite unique among med school applicants.

Why wouldn't you do this ? If you make the cut, definitely stick with it.
 
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Actually, being on a nationally ranked debate team is a big deal and quite unique among med school applicants.

Why wouldn't you do this ? If you make the cut, definitely stick with it.

I think I will be able to make the cut since my current high school debate coach is a good friend of the college I am speaking about's debate advisor. My coach did debate in college and he said it's very time consuming. Upwards of 30 hours a week in just practice.

---

I'm not sure if this time commitment is worth it because it will definitely make my other EC weaker due to less time commited to clinical/nonclinical, etc.

What do you think?
 
Thanks for your response. I did not know there was a chances section. I apologize. I am new to the forum

I now understand the "cookie-cutter" activities. I am still unsure of how to stand out from the thousands of applications read. Would you have any further tips? I am frankly a boring person.

Thank you

From the wise LizzyM
If you have more than 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering by the time you apply you will be in the top 25% of applicants with regard to community service (based on what I see). The tip top of the pyramid are those who do a full-time volunteerism during a gap year or two (Peace Corps, City Year, etc).

Clinical... top 25% of the pool have employment in a clinical setting: EMT, scribe, patient care technician (aide). The hours don't matter... it is going to be hundreds of hours if you even work full-time for a few weeks.

The proportion of top applicants who have a publication or a thesis is relatively low -- maybe <20% if you include undergrad thesis. Publications? Less than 5% have anything in a reputable peer reviewed journal.

Most applicants have neither a thesis or a publication after 2 years of lab work during undergrad.

To stand out in the top tier, seriously, you need to be in the top 2% in terms of MCAT and have an excellent GPA. Beyond that, if you have the minimum in all areas and stand out in one or two areas (research, clinical, service, leadership, life experience) you'll be fine.


Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

I will add do what you love and love what you do. Me personally as an Adcom, I am very impressed by people who are willing to work with reminders of our mortality and frailty. That's volunteering in hospice, in nursing homes or camps for sick kids, or with the developmentally disabled or mentally ill.
 
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I think I will be able to make the cut since my current high school debate coach is a good friend of the college I am speaking about's debate advisor. My coach did debate in college and he said it's very time consuming. Upwards of 30 hours a week in just practice.

---

I'm not sure if this time commitment is worth it because it will definitely make my other EC weaker due to less time commited to clinical/nonclinical, etc.

What do you think?
Being on a debate team is definitely a very unique and potentially rewarding opportunity. I wasn't personally on the debate team at my college, but I was their supervisor on the student council and approved all their funding and programming. They not only competed, but also ran their own tournaments for high school students, volunteered at other debate events, and even volunteered at a local prison, where they coached inmates on debate and argumentation strategy.
 
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My understanding was that 3.8+/520+ was simply table stakes for top 20s, and that to really stand out one needed exceptional ECs: Peace Corps, Teach for America, military service, world-class musicianship, Olympic or professional athletics, starting a national nonprofit or something of that nature.
 
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My understanding was that 3.8+/520+ was simply table stakes for top 20s, and that to really stand out one needed exceptional ECs: Peace Corps, Teach for America, military service, world-class musicianship, Olympic or professional athletics, starting a national nonprofit or something of that nature.
You are my favorite poster here
 
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You are my favorite poster here
By "stand out" I meant "be in the top 10 percent of matriculants to top-20 schools" rather than "be a median matriculant at such a school"; the average Harvard Medical School student has a second-author paper, has done Americorps or something like that, and has a 3.9/521 or so. For his ECs to be in the top 10 percent, he'd need several first-author papers, or military service, or maybe Peace Corps or Teach for America. Something world-class.
 
By "stand out" I meant "be in the top 10 percent of matriculants to top-20 schools" rather than "be a median matriculant at such a school"; the average Harvard Medical School student has a second-author paper, has done Americorps or something like that, and has a 3.9/521 or so. For his ECs to be in the top 10 percent, he'd need several first-author papers, or military service, or maybe Peace Corps or Teach for America. Something world-class.
Your notions about ECs are are so off the mark that they are outright malicious. Yes, med schools attract high achieving people with lots of accomplishments. Even my school has has students who were Olympic athletes and military veterans.

But to think that every Harvard/Stanford acceptee is a Nature co-author or is an ex-Navy SEAL is outright delusional.

Here's what LizzyM has to say about the subject at her ionospheric school:
: If you have more than 300 hours of non-clinical volunteering by the time you apply you will be in the top 25% of applicants with regard to community service (based on what I see). The tip top of the pyramid are those who do a full-time volunteerism during a gap year or two (Peace Corps, City Year, etc).

Clinical... top 25% of the pool have employment in a clinical setting: EMT, scribe, patient care technician (aide). The hours don't matter... it is going to be hundreds of hours if you even work full-time for a few weeks.

The proportion of top applicants who have a publication or a thesis is relatively low -- maybe <20% if you include undergrad thesis. Publications? Less than 5% have anything in a reputable peer reviewed journal.

Most applicants have neither a thesis or a publication after 2 years of lab work during undergrad.

To stand out in the top tier, seriously, you need to be in the top 2% in terms of MCAT and have an excellent GPA. Beyond that, if you have the minimum in all areas and stand out in one or two areas (research, clinical, service, leadership, life experience) you'll be fine.

SDNers who have made it into Really Top Schools tend to have hundreds, if not 1000s of clinical and/or non-clinical volunteering or employment. One trend, off-hand, seems to be an involvement in public health policy, especially to underserved communities. It doesn't need to be in the Peace Corps. Actually, a good friend of mine was in the Peace Corps, and she went to MSUCOM.
 
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Thank you everyone. I greatly appreciate the invaluable advice!
 
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