General Surgery D.O.?

Started by tndoc12
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tndoc12

tndoc12

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Alright. Here is where i am coming from. I have a 3.7 sGPA and a 3.7 cGPA. I haven't taken the mcat yet but i plan on doing quite well. This summer i will be applying to both MD and DO schools. If i decide a DO school is better for me do I still have equal opportunity to match into a surgery residency either in the midwest (colorado, texas) or the south (tennessee)? I know everyone says that it ultimately depends on the student but is this feasible?
 
trauma12 said:
Alright. Here is where i am coming from. I have a 3.7 sGPA and a 3.7 cGPA. I haven't taken the mcat yet but i plan on doing quite well. This summer i will be applying to both MD and DO schools. If i decide a DO school is better for me do I still have equal opportunity to match into a surgery residency either in the midwest (colorado, texas) or the south (tennessee)? I know everyone says that it ultimately depends on the student but is this feasible?
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Deep in my heart, I hope this post is satirical ... though I'm fairly certain it is not:

1. What does your undergraduate GPA have to do with general surgery
2. Hypothesizing an MCAT score is absurd. You plan on doing quite well? Is there anyone who takes the MCAT with the mentality of bombing it? "Well, I haven't taken the MCAT yet ... but I plan on performing like ass." No. Until you've studied, taken lots of practices exams, etc, don't predict anything. Actually, don't predict anything ever ... do the best you can, period.
3. Don't try to pick a field right now. You're too young, too inexperienced, etc. Over half the people change their mind in med school, so planning your life around a potential field right now just doesn't make sense. Take the MCAT, do well, apply broadly, do well in pre-clinical, do well on COMLEX/USMLE, do well in rotations, audition, THEN worry about matching. You're at point A worrying about point Z ... don't bother, ya know??
4. Here is a listing of all AOA residencies (including G-surg) and where they are located: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org. For ACGME, check freida.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Deep in my heart, I hope this post is satirical ... though I'm fairly certain it is not:

1. What does your undergraduate GPA have to do with general surgery
2. Hypothesizing an MCAT score is absurd. You plan on doing quite well? Is there anyone who takes the MCAT with the mentality of bombing it? "Well, I haven't taken the MCAT yet ... but I plan on performing like ass." No. Until you've studied, taken lots of practices exams, etc, don't predict anything. Actually, don't predict anything ever ... do the best you can, period.
3. Don't try to pick a field right now. You're too young, too inexperienced, etc. Over half the people change their mind in med school, so planning your life around a potential field right now just doesn't make sense. Take the MCAT, do well, apply broadly, do well in pre-clinical, do well on COMLEX/USMLE, do well in rotations, audition, THEN worry about matching. You're at point A worrying about point Z ... don't bother, ya know??
4. Here is a listing of all AOA residencies (including G-surg) and where they are located: http://opportunities.osteopathic.org. For ACGME, check freida.
Click to expand...

1) i included my undergrad gpa in order to properly illustrate why i am debating between md and do schools.
2) i have taken numerous practice tests and i have performed very very well on them. therefore, i plan on doing quite well on the actual exam too.
3) ive always been told to set your sights on what you want. i am not too young. i am not too inexperienced after working years in the OR and as an EMT.
4) thanks for taking the time to show at least a fraction of class by providing a link.

Perhaps a nicer approach would have sufficed. God Bless you.
 
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Gen surg isn't that hard to match from either an MD or DO. It is more difficult to match some of the upper echelon programs if you are planning on sub-specialty work.
 
trauma12 said:
1) i included my undergrad gpa in order to properly illustrate why i am debating between md and do schools.
2) i have taken numerous practice tests and i have performed very very well on them. therefore, i plan on doing quite well on the actual exam too.
3) ive always been told to set your sights on what you want. i am not too young. i am not too inexperienced after working years in the OR and as an EMT.
4) thanks for taking the time to show at least a fraction of class by providing a link.

Perhaps a nicer approach would have sufficed. God Bless you.
Click to expand...

Jagger has a point in the questions/advice he has given, at least when taking history into account.

1) Your 3.7GPA is above average for many MD schools, your GPA isn't a reason to "consider" DO schools.
2) Actually this is a pretty good gauge, but you failed to mention you have something to base your "I plan to do well on the MCAT" comment. Everyone plans to do well.
3) You may not be too young, you are (like myself who has worked in a clinical lab for 10 years) too inexperienced to KNOW you want to be a surgeon and nothing else. You have worked in the OR and the ER, you've been exposed to two specialties. How do you know you won't fall in love with: peds, IM, neurology, or heck one of the many surgery subspecialties? History says the majority of students change what they want to specialize in when they actually get into medical school.
4) Your OP has a very heavy flavor of, neurotic pre-med who is only considering a D.O. school as a backup plan and hasn't actually done any research into the profession.
 
A few things.

1. I'm a non-trad with years as a paramedic. I changed my mind about my specialty. 80% of all med students do (and all of them say "I WILL NOT - I *know* what I want to do!").

2. Colorado has limited residency positions at this point. Until RVU, CU has been the only med school in the state. Who knows what it will look like in 5 years when you're ready to look into residency positions.

3. EVERYONE says they're going to "do very well" on the MCAT. Most do not. These are voices of experience you're getting, albeit some are more gentle than others. And you should be skeptical enough to know the practice tests are generally much easier than the real thing.

4. Without a more complete picture, it is impossible for anyone to say what your chances are. It is so variable - your GPA, sGPA, PS, MCAT, ECs, LORs all play a part. You've given us one and only one of those pieces. How can you possibly expect a reasonable answer? ANYTHING is possible at the outset. However, choices and information gathered along the way may significantly change the probability by the time the question is at hand.

5. DOs have their own residency positions. So you have extra opportunities for residency. Some of those are in absolutely outstanding programs. Several are dually accredited. But looking into residency now is putting the cart before the donkey. You aren't even in medical school yet. One step at a time.

6. What medical school you go to is irrelevant if you are an outstanding student. There are DO students who matched to Johns Hopkins, UMass, Mayo, etc. in various specialties. A quick search will reveal you are only limited by your own successes or failures and how you present yourself.

Good luck. Go study for the MCAT.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Yeah. It can be pretty competitive for DOs going into ACGME though.
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It depends on the program if you want a big name i.e. Duke or JHU, with their attendant personality issues it can be exceedingly difficult. That goes not just for DOs but MDs as well. If he wants an ACGME community based one or at a smaller name, less prestigous program (Although prestige and caliber of training are oftentimes unrelated) it is well within the realm of the possible. Some programs are DO friendly, some less so. General surgery is a love it or hate it specialty and many people find after the clerkship that they either never want to deal with the specialty again or it's the only thing for them. If you want to keep your options open the MD route will make it somewhat easier, although the determining factor is generally the applicant and not the letters behind their name. An MD is by no means a golden ticket however it does make life easier in the ACGME match which must be weighed against the value of having the osteopathic match. Also why are you so interested in gen surg? Are you willing to put up with the lifestyle issues i.e. 80 hours as an attending, longer than that as a resident, the poorer pay relative to surgical sub-specialties and the personalities that come along with this field. There is a good chance that you will change your mind in medical school, so keep an open outlook on other specialties.
 
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FutureCTDoc said:
It depends on the program if you want a big name i.e. Duke or JHU, with their attendant personality issues it can be exceedingly difficult. That goes not just for DOs but MDs as well. If he wants an ACGME community based one or at a smaller name, less prestigous program (Although prestige and caliber of training are oftentimes unrelated) it is well within the realm of the possible. Some programs are DO friendly, some less so. General surgery is a love it or hate it specialty and many people find after the clerkship that they either never want to deal with the specialty again or it's the only thing for them. If you want to keep your options open the MD route will make it somewhat easier, although the determining factor is generally the applicant and not the letters behind their name. An MD is by no means a golden ticket however it does make life easier in the ACGME match which must be weighed against the value of having the osteopathic match. Also why are you so interested in gen surg? Are you willing to put up with the lifestyle issues i.e. 80 hours as an attending, longer than that as a resident, the poorer pay relative to surgical sub-specialties and the personalities that come along with this field. There is a good chance that you will change your mind in medical school, so keep an open outlook on other specialties.
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Huh? Are you asking me why I'm interested in g-surg??? I'm not, I was just responding to the OP.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Huh? Are you asking me why I'm interested in g-surg??? I'm not, I was just responding to the OP.
Click to expand...

I was just commenting, on your comment regarding how competitive ACGME gen surg is. As well as asking the OP about why they were interested, if they had contemplated the difficulties of a life in general surgery and whether they had any interest in going into fellowship training after residency. I meant to illustrate that there was a vast gulf in terms of difficult of securing a position with a community gen surg residency as opposed to that of a university based program at Brand name U.
 
FutureCTDoc said:
It depends on the program if you want a big name i.e. Duke or JHU, with their attendant personality issues it can be exceedingly difficult. That goes not just for DOs but MDs as well. If he wants an ACGME community based one or at a smaller name, less prestigous program (Although prestige and caliber of training are oftentimes unrelated) it is well within the realm of the possible. Some programs are DO friendly, some less so. General surgery is a love it or hate it specialty and many people find after the clerkship that they either never want to deal with the specialty again or it's the only thing for them. If you want to keep your options open the MD route will make it somewhat easier, although the determining factor is generally the applicant and not the letters behind their name. An MD is by no means a golden ticket however it does make life easier in the ACGME match which must be weighed against the value of having the osteopathic match. Also why are you so interested in gen surg? Are you willing to put up with the lifestyle issues i.e. 80 hours as an attending, longer than that as a resident, the poorer pay relative to surgical sub-specialties and the personalities that come along with this field. There is a good chance that you will change your mind in medical school, so keep an open outlook on other specialties.
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Doesn't it say "Pre-Medical" under your username on the left-hand side of your screen? And isn't your username "FutureCTDoc"? Ironic.
 
MrBeauregard said:
Doesn't it say "Pre-Medical" under your username on the left-hand side of your screen? And isn't your username "FutureCTDoc"? Ironic.
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It's not really ironic considering it stands for my home state of Connecticut. So before you make assumptions it makes sense to do some background research.
 
It still says "Future_Doc" regardless, which is what the poster was driving at.

Shyrem, just one thing - if anything, practice tests tend to be harder than the real thing. Kaplan, Princeton Review, etc. all have stake in you initially doing poorly then eventually doing well (read 'better'). The practice AAMC tests may be considered easier, but the scores they give are still generally very representative.
 
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FutureCTDoc said:
I find the most amusing part is that no one ever disagrees with my logic. Instead it's the fact that I'm a premed.
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LMAO!!!! OH No there is plenty of disagreeing with your logic that has nothing to do with you being a premie. Trust me.
 
JaggerPlate said:
2. Hypothesizing an MCAT score is absurd. You plan on doing quite well? Is there anyone who takes the MCAT with the mentality of bombing it? "Well, I haven't taken the MCAT yet ... but I plan on performing like ass." No. Until you've studied, taken lots of practices exams, etc, don't predict anything. Actually, don't predict anything ever ... do the best you can, period.
Click to expand...

Harsh. I've heard that if you put your mind to it, anything is possible. For instance, I'm gonna put my mind to it anMd see if I can swing a date with Selma Hayek when she was 20 years old. I'll let you know how it turns out.

ShyRem said:
There are DO students who matched to Johns Hopkins, UMass, Mayo, etc. in various specialties.
Click to expand...

One of these things is not like the others. 2 of these things are kinda the same.

FutureCTDoc said:
General surgery is a love it or hate it specialty and many people find after the clerkship that they either never want to deal with the specialty again or it's the only thing for them.

Are you willing to put up with the lifestyle issues i.e. 80 hours as an attending, longer than that as a resident, the poorer pay relative to surgical sub-specialties and the personalities that come along with this field.
Click to expand...

I thought I was gonna do surgery but after the clerkship I was so put off by the personalities and the fact that attendings were working longer hours than the residents that I reconsidered. That and the fact that I only found a single surgeon that seemed like they were happy, and he was working part time and doing teaching rather than doing surgery.
 
loveoforganic said:
...if anything, practice tests tend to be harder than the real thing. Kaplan, Princeton Review, etc. all have stake in you initially doing poorly then eventually doing well (read 'better'). The practice AAMC tests may be considered easier, but the scores they give are still generally very representative.
Click to expand...

Kaplan and Princeton give you harder DIAGNOSTIC tests at the beginning. The others are a lot easier because they guarantee that you will do better on EITHER the real thing or your practice exams at the end. They make those a good bit easier so that they don't have to give you another free course. That's why a whole lot of people are dissapointed when scores come back.
 
Wait DOs can be surgeons. I thought they just used manipulation? This is news to me.....
 
trauma12 said:
Alright. Here is where i am coming from. I have a 3.7 sGPA and a 3.7 cGPA. I haven't taken the mcat yet but i plan on doing quite well. This summer i will be applying to both MD and DO schools. If i decide a DO school is better for me do I still have equal opportunity to match into a surgery residency either in the midwest (colorado, texas) or the south (tennessee)? I know everyone says that it ultimately depends on the student but is this feasible?
Click to expand...

At LMU-DCOM, you rotate with UT Surgeons (at one of the core sites) and you have the opportunity to do electives with UT as well, including trauma. That should be helpful for getting a residency at UT.
 
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yes, you have just as easy of an option as an m.d. does, except greater, you have an allopathic or osteopathic option..:idea:
 
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