General Surgery Fellowship + PhD Combined Programs?

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Posting for a friend who couldn't make an acct: "So residency +PhD wasn't exactly what I was looking for since I'm not sure they offer these programs.. More so interested in PhD in computer science/social engineering and doing a fellowship in transplant. Does anyone know of any of these programs for general surgeons almost out of residency to pursue? Or what about doing a PhD after gen surge residency and then a fellowship after that while working locum during the PhD?"

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5 to 7 year general surgery residency.
1 to 2 years for fellowship

PhD in computer science could be several years. Not really related to your field.

What is the link that this person is trying to create between social engineering/computer sciences and transplant surgery?

Also not sure how reasonable it is to just do locums your first few years out of residency while trying to get a PhD. There is a learning curve to operating on your own and I don't think dabbling in surgery is the way to go.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this career path doesn't seem realistic.
 
Their reply: "Yeah that was what I was afraid of. Being a surgeon scientist is hard enough, but adding in compsci is harder. So would a PhD in compsci be out of the books at this point post residency?"
 
I have a family member who has a PhD in CS. Most grads go into industry. What career is this person looking to pursue that they need a PhD in CS? Transplant does have research opportunity, but it also is not a lifestyle field. Someone has to get donor organs at all hours of day and night, as well as operate at all hours to ensure the donor organ is still viable.

As far as doing locums while a PhD student:
1. Locums assignments as a surgeon often involve long stints of call, travel, and living in hotels. Locums opportunities are more plentiful in rural areas and connectivity could be an issue.
2. Will probably be difficult to be a full time PhD student and a surgeon at the same time, so anticipate it will take extra years to finish that PhD or that there will not be much operating/surgeon experiences over those years as a result.
3. Will be difficult to match into a fellowship after being out for years. Not impossible, but operative experience and LORs will need to stand out among applicants with current training and experience with transplant. There is also a perception that locums tend to be one of two groups A) those near retirement who are slowing down but want to maintain an income and B) those who have a hard time keeping a steady job due to either interpersonal or quality issues.
4. Locums assignments are often "light" so operative volumes are low and when in rural areas, bigger cases often need to be sent out due to lack of adequate support systems in the hospital. In rural areas, it may involve lots of scopes and occasional appys and choles with a rare ex lap.
5. Doubt transplant fellowship will allow time for any useful computer science research or connections to be made.
 
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Posting for a friend who couldn't make an acct: "So residency +PhD wasn't exactly what I was looking for since I'm not sure they offer these programs.. More so interested in PhD in computer science/social engineering and doing a fellowship in transplant. Does anyone know of any of these programs for general surgeons almost out of residency to pursue? Or what about doing a PhD after gen surge residency and then a fellowship after that while working locum during the PhD?"

It can be done, but I don't know of places which offer a specific track to do it. They end up being "one-off" situations at places which already support academic development time.

There are places that support 3 years (instead of two), and those would be where I'd start. The CS/social engineering is going to complicate matters further. You couldn't just show up and say "I want to do it because it's interesting." It would almost certainly have to dovetail with a proposed area of research (preferably one with which the person has been involved prior to residency).
 
I guess my question would be why? What possible connection could there be between working as a general surgeon and having an advanced degree in comp sci. These are wildly different fields.

At some point, one needs to grow up and pick a job. Many of us wanted to be marine biologist veterinarian pilot firemen as kids. But at some point, both feasibility and utility come into play.
 
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Posting for a friend who couldn't make an acct: "So residency +PhD wasn't exactly what I was looking for since I'm not sure they offer these programs.. More so interested in PhD in computer science/social engineering and doing a fellowship in transplant. Does anyone know of any of these programs for general surgeons almost out of residency to pursue? Or what about doing a PhD after gen surge residency and then a fellowship after that while working locum during the PhD?"
This question shows that both you and your friend have no real understanding of what practicing medicine and surgery is like. Transplant would actually be one of the worst fields for this terrible idea.

Sorry but this is one of the dumber questions I've seen on this site.
 
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This question shows that both you and your friend have no real understanding of what practicing medicine and surgery is like. Transplant would actually be one of the worst fields for this terrible idea.

Sorry but this is one of the dumber questions I've seen on this site.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Professor Ewen Harrison

The answer to the question "Can it be done?" is yes. But there is obviously a lot of nuance in getting to that answer.

I guess my question would be why? What possible connection could there be between working as a general surgeon and having an advanced degree in comp sci. These are wildly different fields.

I think there can certainly be a connection. But it would take a fairly unique candidate (and a fairly "progressive" program) to see how it works. I mean, Michigan just hired a surgeon who started out in architecture to run a program focused on architecture in medicine. The point being that I think some academic-minded surgery outfits are starting to expand beyond the "tried and true" methods of producing surgeon scientists. But that's probably a discussion for a different thread.
 
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Where I trained, a surgery resident got his PhD in religion during his research years. CS isn't any less tangential. More likely though a masters in clinical informatics makes way more sense though.
 
Where I trained, a surgery resident got his PhD in religion during his research years. CS isn't any less tangential. More likely though a masters in clinical informatics makes way more sense though.
I was aware of several Surgery residents who did PhD during their research years at Loyola University Chicago. Lot of departmental support for it albeit 10 years ago. I would recommend reaching out to them.
 
Part of my PhD was in CS (Physical Chemistry with an 'Emphasis in computational science). I use it now as a conversation piece and to explain scenes in 'Breaking Bad'.

Getting a PhD definitely shapes your mind for the better. At the very least, you really learn how to learn, and you get an in depth understanding about a subject (as opposed to the BS superficial learning we often do medical school/residency).

Having said all that: fellowship is kinda late in the game. Don't you wanna just practice? Do it only if you really want to.
 
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