generic Zosyn

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StaviZFingerZ

StaviZFingerZ

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Around the corner... look for it at the wholesalers near you.

Another public notice provided by Z.
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Well...if I see my director and buyer skipping down the hallway holding hands, I'll know why.

How soon, soothsayer? And at what savings per dose...say per box of 3.375 vials...?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Well...if I see my director and buyer skipping down the hallway holding hands, I'll know why.

How soon, soothsayer? And at what savings per dose...say per box of 3.375 vials...?
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Apotex. End of June... pricing won't be cheap in the beginning... but I suspect it'll eventually come down to about $50 per sleeve of 10? That's compared to $170 for 10 vials and $200 for 10 bags of frozen 3.375 grams.
 
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StaviZFingerZ said:
Apotex. End of June... pricing won't be cheap in the beginning... but I suspect it'll eventually come down to about $50 per sleeve of 10? That's compared to $170 for 10 vials and $200 for 10 bags of frozen 3.375 grams.
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Wow. I think we go through about 30-40 of those a day.

4 boxes*120/box = $360-480/day
$360-480/day * 365 days ~ $130,000-$175,000/year..!!!!

DAAAAAAYYUM. :eek:


The director is going to be hiding out in the trash bins of the physicians' lounge saying "Order Zosyn...ORDER ZOSYN" in a slow, heavenly voice...
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Wow. I think we go through about 30-40 of those a day.

4 boxes*120/box = $360-480/day
$360-480/day * 365 days ~ $130,000-$175,000/year..!!!!

DAAAAAAYYUM. :eek:
Click to expand...


dang amateur.. you get excited over 6 figure savings? :smuggrin:

aight...I would have too.

Wait till you start providing 7 figure savings and when admin wants to hug you everytime! Makes this job worthwhile.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Wow. I think we go through about 30-40 of those a day.

4 boxes*120/box = $360-480/day
$360-480/day * 365 days ~ $130,000-$175,000/year..!!!!

DAAAAAAYYUM. :eek:


The director is going to be hiding out in the trash bins of the physicians' lounge saying "Order Zosyn...ORDER ZOSYN" in a slow, heavenly voice...
Click to expand...

BTW...that calculation you just did....95% of pharmacists can't do... don't ask me why.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Unless I decide to pick up that game. Luckily for him...I probably won't...unless that full-contact golf game I invented comes to fruition...then he's screwed.
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I think Tiger will give you a run for your money on full contact golf..
 
Members don't see this ad :)
SpirivaSunrise said:
Hah. And I'm sorry, I don't remember the details to this full-contact game of yours.

Are you going to be smacking eachother with the clubs? Because even if we give you a putter and Tiger a driver, my money's still on the Tigre. :p
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The rules are there are no rules. First to get their ball into the hole on each of 9 holes wins. And means necessary that isn't over-the-top violent and jail worthy. You can hit the other dudes ball...steal his clubs and throw them into a lake...hijack his golf cart...whatever. Just the first dude to get the ball in 9 holes...and you have to hit the ball with a club...of course...
 
Omegadramon said:
B-but I like the premix frozen Zosyn!
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Too bad. You like spending more money for the same thing with a shorter expiration? It's DOPs and pharmacists with your mentality that drive up the cost of drugs at a hospital... spend more money so the techs can be lazy.
 
I'm all for saving more money, but I seriously doubt our hospital will use the savings to get another IV tech to help with the increased batching. :(

Also generic means no more pretty multi-colored vials :-<
 
Omegadramon said:
I'm all for saving more money, but I seriously doubt our hospital will use the savings to get another IV tech to help with the increased batching. :(

Also generic means no more pretty multi-colored vials :-<
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How many vials do you think you go through a day? And How long do you think it will take to stick the vials into vial mate or minibag? I can do about 10 to 20 bags a minute...so... if you go through 100 a day..that's 5 to 10 minutes.
 
we use zosyn by the boatloads, we almost exclusively use the frozens ready to use bags, this should save a **** ton of money.:thumbup:
 
we use Add-Ease. Doesn't take too long but you get a gnarly callous when you do hundreds in a shift.
 
Glycerin said:
I can see you, Z, going to Western States every year just to hang out on Pebble Beach. :smuggrin:
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Actually I do... but not Pebble...but here.. Every September.

pacific11.jpg
 
I'm skeptical of a generic pip-tazo until we see the data. The patent expired a couple of years ago. Still, no generic. Why?

At our hospital, this is going to come down to the label. Is there a risk management plan or will we have 2 labels to deal with?

We couldn't care less about the "expanded compatibility profile" Wyeth is selling around LRS and the ability to coadmin amikacin and gent through the y-site. What we care about is USP 788. Small volume injection particulate limit is more important. Will the generic have the old label or will it meet 788?

If it does, we will convert all our Galaxy Bags to vials in 60 days and go generic. If not, then risk management is going to ultimately decide.

Supply will come in to play a bit. Does Apotex have the ability to meet demand? Both Apotox and Hospira have put us through these drill multiple times and nothing came of it. I am looking at Finks memo right now and the pricing looks pretty good. But is it a mirage?:idea:
 
StewardshipDude said:
I'm skeptical of a generic pip-tazo until we see the data. The patent expired a couple of years ago. Still, no generic. Why?

At our hospital, this is going to come down to the label. Is there a risk management plan or will we have 2 labels to deal with?

We couldn't care less about the "expanded compatibility profile" Wyeth is selling around LRS and the ability to coadmin amikacin and gent through the y-site. What we care about is USP 788. Small volume injection particulate limit is more important. Will the generic have the old label or will it meet 788?

If it does, we will convert all our Galaxy Bags to vials in 60 days and go generic. If not, then risk management is going to ultimately decide.

Supply will come in to play a bit. Does Apotex have the ability to meet demand? Both Apotox and Hospira have put us through these drill multiple times and nothing came of it. I am looking at Finks memo right now and the pricing looks pretty good. But is it a mirage?:idea:
Click to expand...

Generic Zosyn is going full steam in Europe.. by Hospira. The hold up is the US FDA. WTH is a galaxy bag? Screw risk management. And no they don't ultimately decide. They want you to think they ultimately decide. But $ decides and using vials + vial mate system is just as safe. This is Wyeth's worst nightmare and of course they'll fight it all the way with the "compatibility" issue. But with the amount of dollars at stake, those are minor challenges we have to overcome. Otherwise you're doing nothing more than laying down and bending over. That's why they pay us the big bucks to drive cost down...it's the right thing to do as a pharmacist.

Good Day.
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
Generic Zosyn is going full steam in Europe.. by Hospira. The hold up is the US FDA. WTH is a galaxy bag? Screw risk management. And no they don't ultimately decide. They want you to think they ultimately decide. But $ decides and using vials + vial mate system is just as safe. This is Wyeth's worst nightmare and of course they'll fight it all the way with the "compatibility" issue. But with the amount of dollars at stake, those are minor challenges we have to overcome. Otherwise you're doing nothing more than laying down and bending over. That's why they pay us the big bucks to drive cost down...it's the right thing to do as a pharmacist.

Good Day.
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Risk management is dollars. They don't want 2 Zosyns on the floors each with different labels. That's why this has always come down to what the generic label looks like. If its the same as the current Zosyn, then we convert 100%. If it's the old label, then we have to look at the risk management plan because that affects the true cost. This might be difficult, but DOPs are paid on cost per unit. The folks that get paid the "big bucks" in the hospital get paid on units per case. It's not as simple as acquisition costs.

Galaxay Bags are what our Baxter rep calls Frozen Zosyn.

USP 788 doesn't apply in Europe, but it does here so I don't care what they are doing in Europe. The Europeans cant sue.

You sound like you don't take care of patients. Do you work for a GPO or perhaps even Hospira or Apotex?
 
StewardshipDude said:
Risk management is dollars. They don't want 2 Zosyns on the floors each with different labels. That's why this has always come down to what the generic label looks like. If its the same as the current Zosyn, then we convert 100%. If it's the old label, then we have to look at the risk management plan because that affects the true cost. This might be difficult, but DOPs are paid on cost per unit. The folks that get paid the "big bucks" in the hospital get paid on units per case. It's not as simple as acquisition costs.

Galaxay Bags are what our Baxter rep calls Frozen Zosyn.

USP 788 doesn't apply in Europe, but it does here so I don't care what they are doing in Europe. The Europeans cant sue.

You sound like you don't take care of patients. Do you work for a GPO or perhaps even Hospira or Apotex?
Click to expand...

1. Why would you have 2 different labels of Zosyn??
2. So your hospital has been wasting money on Frozen Zosyns... don't tell me you guys are also using frozen Rocephin at $10 per bag.
3. No, I don't work for pharma. But one of my job description is overseeing Abx stewardship at 25 different hospitals.
4. Give me a break...there was nothing wrong with old label zosyn... it was Wyeth attempt to extend the patent.

You sound like you should be on a speaker's payroll for Wyeth. Don't question my job taking care of my patients. My decision affects far more patients than you can imagine. Finish your ID fellowship first, then hopefully someone will teach you how to practice pharmacy. Or you can go work for Risk Management.

And you're not concerned with what happens in Europe because they can't sue you??? LOL... aren't you myopic.
 
BTW, generic Zosyn use in Europe should interest you because USP 788 is equivalent to EP6...which evidently is not an issue with Hospira's generic Pip-Tazo in Europe.
 
Just answer the question why no generic and they lost patent in Feb - 2007? why? What is going on?

Talk to some folks in the know in Rockville and the most likely scenario is a generic based on the old label, before Wyeth pulled it and brought out their "reformulated" 788 compliant model. I don't like them any better than the rest, especially since they cut the GPOs out of the rest of their injectible market, but they market a product with a label that will be different than the generics.

Say you have some generic(old label) product on the self and some Zosyn(new label - different compatabilities, etc) in the SICU. Nurses in the SICU read the label and administer according to that lable. The next dose the generic, different label is used from central pharmacy and there are issues. Who's in trouble. Not some CPA at the buying group, but the clinical PharmD and the administration.

If there's another label, then there will be a risk management plan. Bank on it.

And we don't believe the hype about working down our current inventory and packaging unopened coarton of product for return/credit. Hospira has had us jump through this before and they have already told the street that will not sell generic pip/tazo in 2009. End of discussion. Go to their 10-k.

No one believes my CHS memo either. 2.25-$3.16, 3.375 -$4.72, etc. By June 15? Check the FDA's website. They haven't approved a generic today and they don't approve on weekends. I don't care what short dated supply you are sitting on, you ain't selling it Jun 15th anywhere in the US. HPG, Apotex and Cardinal may one day sell it. But not today.

Now, I am going to lunch early.

Another note. ABx cost containment strategies that masquarade as stewardship efforts only save money over the short term. Every patient we treat today also treats patients tomorrow. Keep using the cheapest agents around and I will have to keep fighting MRSA, ESBLs, VRE and KPCs. True stewardship efforts are about managing the ballon as we squeeze it.
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hospira-Launches-prnews-14865781.html?.v=1

Every patient we treat today also treats patients tomorrow.
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What?

Again, why would you have 2 different labels? It should be one or the other and before the new product is implemented housewide, nursing should be inserviced. A proper step that must take place...for someone who preaches "risk manageme" not sure why you would even ask this question.

Why is the USFDA slow in approval? You tell me. Rockville you say? LOL...I was just in Rockville 2 days ago. Of course I was just passing through.

So answer me this. Why would you use Frozen Zosyn 3.375 at $20 per bag when you can get the vials $17 and minibag at $1.50 and save $1.50 per dose while decrease in wastage through a longer expiration?

And why would you accuse anyone who runs stewardship as masquarading Abx cost containment? Appropriate use of Abx not only decrease cost, it attempts to contorl resistance. I didn't say it...IDSA Antimicrobail Stewardship Article did. Name your bugs... and we have to treat it and we would never ever compromise patient care to save money. And if you think that's what other do, then you have a lot to learn about how different institutions practice pharmacy.

Zosyn will go generic. And everyone will jump on it. And it will decrease antibiotic cost throughout the US. Your institution can let the risk management decide and use Zosyn Galaxy bag and spend more money.. :smuggrin:
 
Nice link, why not read the 10-k where you see they took the possibility of generic zosyn out of their guidance for 2009.

At least we agree it will go generic. I hope so. And once we see the data, we will most likely convert. But it won't be 100% based on price.

Now, please answer the question. Why is there no generic more than 2 years after lose of exclusivity? Something more than price is going on given the FDAs desire to lower costs for all of us. What is it?

Just answer the question. Or ask Bob.
 
Please re-read my post as well. I am all for ABx stewarship efforts if done according to the IDSA. Read their publications and NO WHERE - NO WHERE do they advocate simply using the least costly agents. You know that and you misquote my statement. It's there in print. Read it.

Stewardship is about giving the current patient and future patients the best shot we have while doing so in such as way as to limit or reduce current and future resistance. Allowing your ED to use levo unrestricted in not stewardship, even if Ortho cuts us a $12/day deal. Stewardship is not allowing generic ceftriaxone for everything just because it's cheap.

I suggest you start with Bad Bugs, No Drugs from the IDSA and then progress to their other resources.
 
StewardshipDude said:
Please re-read my post as well. I am all for ABx stewarship efforts if done according to the IDSA. Read their publications and NO WHERE - NO WHERE do they advocate simply using the least costly agents. You know that and you misquote my statement. It's there in print. Read it.

Stewardship is about giving the current patient and future patients the best shot we have while doing so in such as way as to limit or reduce current and future resistance. Allowing your ED to use levo unrestricted in not stewardship, even if Ortho cuts us a $12/day deal. Stewardship is not allowing generic ceftriaxone for everything just because it's cheap.

I suggest you start with Bad Bugs, No Drugs from the IDSA and then progress to their other resources.
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where did you come from>
 
Long time lurker, first time poster.

Interesting that you would ask me that and not ask the same of someone who registered in April 2009, the same month we starting getting memos from the GPOs about generic Zosyn availabilty. Hmmm? Hype much?
 
StewardshipDude said:
Long time lurker, first time poster.

Interesting that you would ask me that and not ask the same of someone who registered in April 2009, the same month we starting getting memos from the GPOs about generic Zosyn availabilty. Hmmm? Hype much?
Click to expand...

that is one of like 3 screen names of his.....

how you like the id fellowship?
 
bigpharmD said:
that is one of like 3 screen names of his.....

how you like the id fellowship?
Click to expand...

The real question is, what is up with the liver patients taking sirolimus? I think the same happened a year ago in a heart study.....
 
any of you: ANSWER THE QUESTION

Zosyn lost it's patent 2-2007.

Why is there no generic, even today? Why?

Do you think the FDA likes Wyeth? Look at their history. There are few companies the FDA would like to stick it to more than Wyeth. So, why no generic?

You guys can keep bashing me, but answer the question.


crickets....crickets...
 
StewardshipDude said:
any of you: ANSWER THE QUESTION

Zosyn lost it's patent 2-2007.

Why is there no generic, even today? Why?

Do you think the FDA likes Wyeth? Look at their history. There are few companies the FDA would like to stick it to more than Wyeth. So, why no generic?

You guys can keep bashing me, but answer the question.


crickets....crickets...
Click to expand...

does it cost too much to make? maybe other logistical issues....there are always shortages

whos is bashing you...chill out
 
StewardshipDude said:
any of you: ANSWER THE QUESTION

Zosyn lost it's patent 2-2007.

Why is there no generic, even today? Why?

Do you think the FDA likes Wyeth? Look at their history. There are few companies the FDA would like to stick it to more than Wyeth. So, why no generic?

You guys can keep bashing me, but answer the question.


crickets....crickets...
Click to expand...

The United States legal system, my man. It is a very simple equation, and Pharma employs it all the time. Pay expensive lawyers to tie generic competition up in court (and yes, this can last years after a patent is "lost"), and the daily legal fees are always less than the daily revenue won by maintaining exclusivity. I have not confirmed this is the case with piperacillin/tazobactam, but it is not a new trick in the Pharma play book.

And, the FDA "sticks it" to no Pharma company, this is the agency's primary source of income.

So, as of right now, my opinion (albeit SPECULATION) is that this is tied up in court and not at the FDA. I may prove myself wrong when I go home this evening and read some more. But you can prove me wrong in the meantime if you choose....
 
StewardshipDude said:
any of you: ANSWER THE QUESTION

Zosyn lost it's patent 2-2007.

Why is there no generic, even today? Why?

Do you think the FDA likes Wyeth? Look at their history. There are few companies the FDA would like to stick it to more than Wyeth. So, why no generic?

You guys can keep bashing me, but answer the question.


crickets....crickets...
Click to expand...

Don't get ahead of yourself, I was on a conference call and couldn't respond. If you truly don't know why it has taken so long for Zosyn generic to launch, then you have a lot to learn about Pharma business. Then again, I don't expect you to know this stuff.

Wyeth went through an "Evergreening" process to extend the patent of Zosyn. I assume you know what "Evergreening" is. If you don't, I'm sure you'll google it. But Wyeth did this in the name of "safety and efficacy" thereby withdrawing the original formulation of Zosyn from the market in 2005, 12-13 years after Zosyn was safely used in the US. In this instance because the original formulation is removed from the approved drug list, the generic companies can't release generic version of Zosyn.

There were lawsuits filed on behalf of this and Sandoz actually filed a citizen's petition regarding this issue in 2005. I do not know what happened with the lawsuit...I thought I read that generic companies won or maybe they didn't.

But we have generic Zosyn launching in Europe. You can choose not to care...but I care. If it's safe for Europeans, it's likely safe for the US. Wait...we used the old formulation for how many years??

So, here's your answer...Now that I have killed your crickets, what will you do?
 
Last edited:
StewardshipDude said:
Allowing your ED to use levo unrestricted in not stewardship, even if Ortho cuts us a $12/day deal.
Click to expand...

Where did I say this? BTW, $12 per day Levo is not that great of a deal. But you wouldn't know that working at one facility with one GPO.

Stewardship is not allowing generic ceftriaxone for everything just because it's cheap.
Click to expand...

Would you rather pay $44 for brand or $30 for a BB Duplex bag or $2 vial?
 
StewardshipDude said:
Long time lurker, first time poster.

Interesting that you would ask me that and not ask the same of someone who registered in April 2009, the same month we starting getting memos from the GPOs about generic Zosyn availabilty. Hmmm? Hype much?
Click to expand...


for a long time lurker...you're not very observant..are you.
 
And the old formulation Zosyn will meet the USP 788 particulate matter specification of not more than 6,000 particles > 10um and not more than 600 particles > 25um.

Wyeth didn't reformulate Zosyn because of safety and efficacy rather in the name of "precaution" but the truth is this was done to extend the patent and prevent other companies from making generic.
 
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