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Which general surgery programs are known to give their residents the best experience in trauma surgery?
Lemont said:Which general surgery programs are known to give their residents the best experience in trauma surgery?
surg said:U-Fl Jacksonville? Orlando Regional? not sure about this one, but I seem to recall others rotating to those places in FL to do trauma
One other thing to keep in mind, is the more trauma oriented the program, the higher risk that is crowds out something useful in your education on the elective side. Not a given, but a definite risk at some places.
Lemont said:But if you want to be a trauma surgeon, wouldn't it be better to train in a general surgery residency that is heavy on trauma?
A trauma attending told me that the key to being a good trauma surgeon is learning to be a good general surgeon first. He said that he got a great training at U of Virginia as a general surgeon and trauma training at Vandy. Look for a place where you can become a great general surgeon and worry about trauma later, keeping in mind that you mind may change in the next five years. Good Luck!Lemont said:But if you want to be a trauma surgeon, wouldn't it be better to train in a general surgery residency that is heavy on trauma?
surg said:U-Maryland (Shock Trauma)
UTSW (Parkland)
USC (LA County)
Emory (Grady)
Rush (Cook County)
ivan lewis said:I agree that Fairfax has good surg attendings. However, most of their trauma experience is with blunt trauma (auto accidents, falls, etc) and not penetrating. I have heard that the best trauma experience in the country are at U of WA (Harborview), U of Miami, and U of Maryland (Shock Trauma). If you're concerned about non-trauma surg experience, try a place like U of WA where the main teaching hospital is separate from the trauma hospital.
I interviewed there and was highly impressed. The ED is newly renovated and the trauma bays seemed very nice. If I didn't want to be on Boston so much, I think they would have ranked much higher. They have had surgical residents from elsewhere forever, but they just started their OWN program (last yaer was the first year they were on ERAS); the PD stressed how family friendly the program is and how it's to everyone's advantage (esp the residents') that they are a new program, started under the new duty hour guidelines. I think it's likely to be a hidden gem.njbmd said:Hi there,
I have become a great fan of Inova Fairfax Hospital. They are the northern branch of Virginia Commonwealth School of Medicine and located about 10 miles out of Washington, DC in Falls Church, Va. The best thing about this program is that the Trauma Surgeons really love to teach and the facilities are top notch. There are helicopters flying all of the time and the Trauma Bays are totally awesome. Everything is right at your fingertips and the training is excellent. They also have a Trauma fellowship program too.
njbmd 🙂
Vincristine said:I think it's likely to be a hidden gem.
njbmd said:Hi there,
Most trauma period is blunt. There are a few places around like U of MD; Metro Hosptal in Cleveland; Washington Hospital Center etc. where the knife and gun club still kicks into high gear but most trauma in general is blunt.
njbmd 🙂
surg said:By trauma, I assume that you want penetrating trauma, since few people seek out blunt trauma (>80% of trauma @ 90% of places I'd guess)
I've heard mixed reviews myself...so I'm trying to get more info to make the right decision... http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=4858615&postcount=4Hi there,
I have become a great fan of Inova Fairfax Hospital. They are the northern branch of Virginia Commonwealth School of Medicine and located about 10 miles out of Washington, DC in Falls Church, Va. The best thing about this program is that the Trauma Surgeons really love to teach and the facilities are top notch. There are helicopters flying all of the time and the Trauma Bays are totally awesome. Everything is right at your fingertips and the training is excellent. They also have a Trauma fellowship program too.
njbmd 🙂
Yep...pretty much. I think the essence of what you're saying is that most "Trauma-heads" consider trauma to be the blood 'n guts routine, ie penetrating trauma requiring immediate surgical intervention. Fairfax does indeed get a LOT of blunt trauma (they say 80% or so), so many of the trauma cases result in non-surgical managament. That's not in line w/ the preconception of what a Trauma Surgeon does, but I think it IS representative of what Trauma Surgery REALLY is on the whole.I agree that Fairfax has good surg attendings. However, most of their trauma experience is with blunt trauma (auto accidents, falls, etc) and not penetrating.
Weather sucks lol. That may seem somewhat fickle, but when you consider that you'll be a resident for 5 years in the same place, that's quite a while, and for some (including myself), weather is a considerable factor I gotta take into consideration. I'm trying to stay away from the cold and rainy areas...I have heard that the best trauma experience in the country are at U of WA (Harborview)
Def. heavy on penetrating trauma (moreso than other hospitals in the country), but one of the major problems that I've found is the atmosphere. Many of these inner city hospitals see tons of penetrating trauma due to their locale, but what I've found also goes w/ that is a good deal of friction/attitude that you have within the hospital - doctors, nurses, ancillary staff, etc. If you're lucky enough to be at a hopsital that doesn't have that problem in the first place, you have NO IDEA how big of a deal that is. Residency is tough enough as it is; the LAST thing you want are rude doctors, nurses w/ an attitude, and an ancillary staff that doesn't really feel like doing their job. A lack of organization is a common problem as well. Of course this is a generalization, but it holds true for the most part, so I'd be weary before committing to a program in such places. In the least, visit it first, and see what you think first-hand...(doing an elective there is a good idea). And that's just me being real.U of Miami
I've heard they're pretty much #1. A friend of mine rotated there, and told me while it's EXCELLENT experience-wise, it's an *incredible* amount of work, and they treat ya like crap, given they are a wee bit high on themselves and their reputation... so you gotta be willing to deal w/ that atmosphere for quite a while.U of Maryland (Shock Trauma).
The 3 most trauma-heavy hospitals in the US are:
Shock (Baltimore)
Cook County (Chicago)
UMC (Las Vegas)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon
The 3 most trauma-heavy hospitals in the US are:
Shock (Baltimore)
Cook County (Chicago)
UMC (Las Vegas)
How can you not include LAC and Grady?
I can't believe more people aren't talking about Baylor either. Ben Taub sees a ton of trauma. Great training there. And another author of Trauma--Ken Mattox--happens to work there.Baylor's residents get tons of trauma experience. Houston is one of the nation's leaders in penetrating trauma. At Ben Taub, the county hospital, they typically do 2-3 x-laps/thoracotomies on a weekday call night (more on the weekends). PGY4's and PGY5's alternate call in the ORs, and PGY2s run the shock rooms (last week the 2nd year resident did a crich for a surgical airway). It's fantastic trauma training, and to practice trauma surgery you won't need a fellowship coming out of Baylor.
UT-Memphis has not been mentioned yet. I've been told (by my ortho PD) that UT is #2 for penetrating trauma behind Shock Trauma.
SUNY Downstate and Kings County Hospital is pretty good for trauma. The Army even occasionally sends its medics to train there for GSWs.
Lol, alot of you all are saying that your hospitals are #1 or #2 or #3 for penetrating trauma in the U.S. Is there an actual list somewhere that has actually numbers of penetrating trauma cases per year or is everything based off of reputation among programs?
Welcome to the subjectivity of medicine.
Everybody wants to feel special.
UT-Houston is a pretty nice place for trauma as well. Admittingly, not as much of the "knife and gun club" as Ben Taub, however, volume at Hermann is roughly 30% more than Ben Taub annually. Ben Taub has the knifes and guns, Hermann's got the choppers (6 of them) and all the MVCs.
It is hard to believe a city the size of Houston (geographically and by population) has only two trauma centers. I'm not here to say that Hermann is better than Ben Taub, as the tit-for-tat that is present in surgery is somewhat nauseating. There is great trauma exposure at each program. I think trauma is something you learn with experience, and both places do a pretty good job of it.
I thought EM at Ben Taub was an oxymoron. Do they even have EM board-certified MDs there now? For a while, they didn't. I know that gen surg does run the show there, but I didn't think there was any EM presence.Agreed. I did a month of trauma at Hermann, and two weeks of EM at Ben Taub, and your assessment of the case distribution seems about right. Hermann does get the GSWs when Ben Taub closes to trauma, and Ben Taub will get the MVAs inside loop 610 and/or without insurance.
The real difference between them is that the ER at Ben Taub is run by surgery and medicine rather than Emergency Medicine. So the surgery residents manage everything that comes in rather than consulting on the potentially surgical cases. Hermann has an EM residency, and the ER is staffed accordingly. There are pros and cons for each setup, but as a future surgeon, I would choose a Ben Taub-like setup over one similar to Hermann's.
"Sending out" residents for trauma is a relative term. Often, residents do numerous rotations at other institutions and trauma may be one of them. For instance, most residencies operating at county programs do many rotations at the county hospital affiliate, and do not just go there for trauma.A couple points:
1. One way to look at this question is to see which programs have to send their residents out for trauma experience. That means there is really not any at their home institution.
2. By area here are my (narrow) opinions.
Florida: Miami and Tampa and Orlando all get lots.
Altlanta: Emory
Philly: Penn and Temple both get lots
Baltimore: Hopkins and Maryland actually split the trauma in Balitmore
New York: Downstate and NYU and UMDMJ
Boston: BU
Chicago: Rush and UIC
Texas: Baylor and Southwestern
West: Colorado and Washington are the famous ones. Also heard about Harbor-UCLA.
IMHO.