Get out while you can.

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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zetabetazeta said:
Not everyone is working for the money though..
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everyone works for money. you want to be able to send your kids to college? you want a house, a new car? yes, these are all "luxuries" that we can all do without. we should all default to living in RV's and foraging for wild mushrooms.
 
FIREitUP said:
everyone works for money. you want to be able to send your kids to college? you want a house, a new car? yes, these are all "luxuries" that we can all do without. we should all default to living in RV's and foraging for wild mushrooms.
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It is so nice to hear this. The idealism on SDN is unbelievable. I would like to see what everyone has to say when they have $200,000 in debt and working 80 hours a week. Then come back nd tell me that you don't work for money.

EVERYONE works for money.....money is what makes our world go round and just because you are a doctor doesn't mean you arn't allowed to be compensated VERY well. How dare we work so hard and want to make a good living!! We are so terrible for wanting to have nice cars, a house, and the ability to send our kids to college so they do not incur any debt!
 
FIREitUP said:
i know it's not, but if you factor in the amount of hours, you could probably do overtime as a police officer and make a comparable amount. so physician's salaries are not on an even playing field as other professions because they are overworked, usually (excluding Rads, anest, derm).

please don't take offense, i merely just wanted to point that out. i'm not trying to get into an argument and didn't really read the thread because it seems there is a lot of internets drama.
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You can definitely make probably something close to 150k with overtime as a cop if you work for LAPD. Cost of living in los angeles though...
 
IMDoc607 said:
It is so nice to hear this. The idealism on SDN is unbelievable. I would like to see what everyone has to say when they have $200,000 in debt and working 80 hours a week. Then come back nd tell me that you don't work for money.

EVERYONE works for money.....money is what makes our world go round and just because you are a doctor doesn't mean you arn't allowed to be compensated VERY well. How dare we work so hard and want to make a good living!! We are so terrible for wanting to have nice cars, a house, and the ability to send our kids to college so they do not incur any debt!
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If all you want to do is to make money, then why doctors? why not to do something else? You don't have to become a doctor to make money though.
 
appleanesthesia said:
I am an anesthesiologist 1 year out of residency. I'm a DO, not MD - but I did do an MD anesthesiology residency.

First, let me say that being a DO has not made one iota of a difference in salary, respect, or patient care despite what many pre-meds think. I was worried when I chose to go DO, but I have yet to have a patient say "what's a DO?, etc." None of my colleagues, surgeons, nurses, patients give two sh*ts about the letters behind my name. So, if you are (fooslishly) thinking about medicine, definitely consider DO skool as well as MD skool.

Second, get out while you can! Medicine is fundamentally changing and until the gov't pays for your entire medical training like in Europe, etc., finishing medicine and residency 8 years from now will leave you with big debt and little income - something like an upside-down mortgage. You guys have no idea what you're getting into and just hope for the best because you are admirably very idealistic - I was too I admit. But I rationalized it out and stuck with it. This time however - it really is different.

After "Medicare for all" passes, I expect my salary will go down 40-70% i.e. about $80k. Our anesthesia group with 50+ docs have already crunched the numbers with our billing dept. Fortunately I don't have any skool loans, but I know of other recent grads like me with $3000 / mo loan payments! Ouch! Medicare rates simply aren't enough to cover rent, electricity, employees, etc without working even more than doctors already do.

And you have no idea how crappy it is to get paged at 4AM after you've just laid down your head at midnight after working 17 hours with a couple of breaks here/there. When this page occurs your heart races, you wake up disoriented, and you have to force open your burning eyes. Sometimes, you still have to keep on working starting again at 7AM the next day until 12-3PM! At this point, you start forgetting things - stethocope, pens, maybe even mislabeling drugs (hopefully you catch that one though). Can you imagine how busy we'll be when we have even more patients since after health reform passes, everyone will have insurance that pays next to nothing!

Many of my colleagues, especially the older ones, already have firm plans in place to stop practicing once this health care reform passes. You should too. You are actually really lucky people in that you haven't yet sacrificed your 20's-30's studying/on call/going into debt for an honorable profession that is financially non-sensical.

It's not too late to turn back now, and I'm not disgruntled - just saying it as I see it - and I'm right smack in the middle of it. I come from a long family line of physicians - and I'll be the first to tell my son to really reconsider medicine if he wants to do it.

Good luck.
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Canada, Australia, and the UK all have national health care and their doctors call make nice incomes. So you are a troll and should just shut up.
 
jhamaican said:
stopped reading after skool
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So did I. However, my curiosity peaked after I stopped so I went back, then confirmed my initial "troll" suspicion after Bret Michaels and the generic examples...
 
artx2008 said:
Thank you. That what I was about to say.
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I can't believe this thread has gone on as long as it has! 4 pages? Really?

However I have to address this one issue:

worldsalary.jpg

nera

Just posting the facts. You can argue about COL, free school, etc. I'm just pointing out the numbers. One day I will pay off my debt (and I can budget myself to do it when I like) then lets compare again.
 
Everyone here needs to read Health Care reform bill. Don't trust anyone Just READ Heath Care reform bill.
 
My point is very straight forward. Just Read Health Care reform bill. It's design in two year time frame government will run health care. We need health care reform but not this one.
 
Dimitry said:
My point is very straight forward. Just Read Health Care reform bill. It's design in two year time frame government will run health care. We need health care reform but not this one.
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Yeah I agree.
Let's focus on how medicine is actually practiced and establishing medical courts where malpractice suits are actually under the review of peers.
 
Thats right.

Government created Medicare and it doesn't work.
So why are we going to jump in this again. Let's focus on creating high paid jobs in U.S . Let's bring high paid jobs back to USA. If people have good jobs they can pay for health care.
oh yeah
We need education reform. why ? Colleges is way overpriced and outdated.
 
texahn said:
Yeah I agree.
Let's focus on how medicine is actually practiced and establishing medical courts where malpractice suits are actually under the review of peers.
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Is that not how it works in Texas? I thought it was. Maybe not.

That's how it works in California.
 
guyski79 said:
Is that not how it works in Texas? I thought it was. Maybe not.

That's how it works in California.
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Yeah we have these caps set by Perry.
Which I personally think don't work that well.
And overall I think Texas has relatively good doctor protection.
But then we do have a lot of problems in certain areas of Texas
 
appleanesthesia said:
I am an anesthesiologist 1 year out of residency. I'm a DO, not MD - but I did do an MD anesthesiology residency.

First, let me say that being a DO has not made one iota of a difference in salary, respect, or patient care despite what many pre-meds think. I was worried when I chose to go DO, but I have yet to have a patient say "what's a DO?, etc." None of my colleagues, surgeons, nurses, patients give two sh*ts about the letters behind my name. So, if you are (fooslishly) thinking about medicine, definitely consider DO skool as well as MD skool.

Second, get out while you can! Medicine is fundamentally changing and until the gov't pays for your entire medical training like in Europe, etc., finishing medicine and residency 8 years from now will leave you with big debt and little income - something like an upside-down mortgage. You guys have no idea what you're getting into and just hope for the best because you are admirably very idealistic - I was too I admit. But I rationalized it out and stuck with it. This time however - it really is different.

After "Medicare for all" passes, I expect my salary will go down 40-70% i.e. about $80k. Our anesthesia group with 50+ docs have already crunched the numbers with our billing dept. Fortunately I don't have any skool loans, but I know of other recent grads like me with $3000 / mo loan payments! Ouch! Medicare rates simply aren't enough to cover rent, electricity, employees, etc without working even more than doctors already do.

And you have no idea how crappy it is to get paged at 4AM after you've just laid down your head at midnight after working 17 hours with a couple of breaks here/there. When this page occurs your heart races, you wake up disoriented, and you have to force open your burning eyes. Sometimes, you still have to keep on working starting again at 7AM the next day until 12-3PM! At this point, you start forgetting things - stethocope, pens, maybe even mislabeling drugs (hopefully you catch that one though). Can you imagine how busy we'll be when we have even more patients since after health reform passes, everyone will have insurance that pays next to nothing!

Many of my colleagues, especially the older ones, already have firm plans in place to stop practicing once this health care reform passes. You should too. You are actually really lucky people in that you haven't yet sacrificed your 20's-30's studying/on call/going into debt for an honorable profession that is financially non-sensical.

It's not too late to turn back now, and I'm not disgruntled - just saying it as I see it - and I'm right smack in the middle of it. I come from a long family line of physicians - and I'll be the first to tell my son to really reconsider medicine if he wants to do it.

Good luck.
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From your perspective any objection I give you is going to give you the impression that you might as well be talking to a brick wall. I am going to be the person I am going to be regardless of what kind of punches the environment throws at me because I am not going to give a f*ck. Everyone's perception of money is going to be changing soon. You, OP, entered med school when the world's concept of money was stable. Now that concept is less stable and everyone of us premeds is learning how to live with the notion of a changing concept of money prior to entering med school. We know that we all will experience a financial toss-up in this career. We know that there is no such thing as "stability" as there was in the "glory years" when prestige and money ruled. The world always finds a way to cope. In an absolute worst case scenario, I will die, but until I die I am going to be satisfied with everything about being a doctor.

Edit:
When I am working, so long as I have enough to buy basic food, eat out once a week 😉, and maybe have $1500 for living expenses - I will be happy doing what I do. The financial system will care for its doctors at least that much. There are ways to be happy and have fun when being cautious about your money. So what is the big deal? Why so worried about money? Separate the idea of money from the idea of happiness.
 
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Eyti said:
From your perspective any objection I give you is going to give you the impression that you might as well be talking to a brick wall. I am going to be the person I am going to be regardless of what kind of punches the environment throws at me because I am not going to give a f*ck. Everyone's perception of money is going to be changing soon. You, OP, entered med school when the world's concept of money was stable. Now that concept is less stable and everyone of us premeds is learning how to live with the notion of a changing concept of money prior to entering med school. We know that we all will experience a financial toss-up in this career. We know that there is no such thing as "stability" as there was in the "glory years" when prestige and money ruled. The world always finds a way to cope. In an absolute worst case scenario, I will die, but until I die I am going to be satisfied with everything about being a doctor.
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Calm_down_bro-DWrvfmLVFfKK0S1yir7V.jpg
 
Good Morning. I found this thread and am going to bump it and add some more information. The original poster is spot on - if you go to medical school in this environment you are committing career suicide. I want you to have some sense of what you are going to be competing against: DMPs making 80-90k a year. Think you are going to pay off that 200k-300k student loan at 7% in this lifetime at that wage?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/health/how-immigrants-doctor-the-nursing-corps-20140220

In addition to this the DMP degree is going to give FMGs without domestic residency training access to physician jobs.

'The first class of nurse practitioners graduated last summer, and of 55 graduates returned to FIU to enroll in a doctorate program. "We're looking now at making the program a BSN to DMP program, because we have so many that are interested," Olenick says of the doctoral program. "The way that nursing is moving, eventually a DMP will be required to practice as a nurse practitioner."'

I usually spend my time on my specialty forum (ER) but someone needs to warn you all before you throw yourself off this cliff.
 
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Old_Mil said:
Good Morning. I found this thread and am going to bump it and add some more information. The original poster is spot on - if you go to medical school in this environment you are committing career suicide. I want you to have some sense of what you are going to be competing against: DMPs (Doctors of Medical Practice - renamed DNPs) making 80-90k a year. Think you are going to pay off that 200k-300k student loan at 7% in this lifetime at that wage?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/health/how-immigrants-doctor-the-nursing-corps-20140220

In addition to this the DMP degree is going to give FMGs without domestic residency training access to physician jobs.

'The first class of nurse practitioners graduated last summer, and of 55 graduates returned to FIU to enroll in a doctorate program. "We're looking now at making the program a BSN to DMP program, because we have so many that are interested," Olenick says of the doctoral program. "The way that nursing is moving, eventually a DMP will be required to practice as a nurse practitioner."'

I usually spend my time on my specialty forum (ER) but someone needs to warn you all before you throw yourself off this cliff.
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If you could redo it, would you do the same thing over again?

I can't even begin to tell you how many physicians have told me not to do it, but usually when I talk to them I can recognize some situational biases ie mid forties dr told me not to go for medical school, but I know her story and she always wanted children and didn't have any. Another is a newly married ER resident, another is a new mom who had to hire an au pair from Europe to take care of her kids, etc.
 
Would I do it again? Not a chance. This is actually my second career. My grandmother, father, mother, and uncle were all physicians so I grew up around medicine and understood it pretty well even before I decided to go to medical school. But that system is dead. I am two years out of residency and am either going to relocate to practice overseas or get out entirely.
 
Old_Mil said:
Good Morning. I found this thread and am going to bump it and add some more information. The original poster is spot on - if you go to medical school in this environment you are committing career suicide. I want you to have some sense of what you are going to be competing against: DMPs making 80-90k a year. Think you are going to pay off that 200k-300k student loan at 7% in this lifetime at that wage?

http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/health/how-immigrants-doctor-the-nursing-corps-20140220

In addition to this the DMP degree is going to give FMGs without domestic residency training access to physician jobs.

'The first class of nurse practitioners graduated last summer, and of 55 graduates returned to FIU to enroll in a doctorate program. "We're looking now at making the program a BSN to DMP program, because we have so many that are interested," Olenick says of the doctoral program. "The way that nursing is moving, eventually a DMP will be required to practice as a nurse practitioner."'

I usually spend my time on my specialty forum (ER) but someone needs to warn you all before you throw yourself off this cliff.
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Nah, man. You're what's wrong with medicine. Stop projecting your insecurities and unhappiness on to us. Every doctor I work with still loves it because they got into it for the right reasons. Career suicide? Would you just prefer that the MD profession dies out with your generation and no one go into medicine anymore? This is what's wrong with SDN. It's a cesspool of negativity where members that are higher up the totem pole come to try and jade pre-meds before they even experience anything for themselves. Did you honestly think you'd convince anyone here to just drop their life goal? Or were you just fear mongering based on some speculation with no way to verify. My guess is the latter, and damn, I'm probably gonna get chewed out by you for saying all this, but just focus on making yourself happy if you're so worried about your future and leave us out of it.
 
Chipster. said:
Nah, man. You're what's wrong with medicine. Stop projecting your insecurities and unhappiness on to us. Every doctor I work with still loves it because they got into it for the right reasons. Career suicide? Would you just prefer that the MD profession dies out with your generation and no one go into medicine anymore? This is what's wrong with SDN. It's a cesspool of negativity where members that are higher up the totem pole come to try and jade pre-meds before they even experience anything for themselves. Did you honestly think you'd convince anyone here to just drop their life goal? Or were you just fear mongering based on some speculation with no way to verify. My guess is the latter, and damn, I'm probably gonna get chewed out by you for saying all this, but just focus on making yourself happy if you're so worried about your future and leave us out of it.
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So basically what you're saying is that you prefer to just hear one side of the argument, and don't want to hear any thoughts that are not in line with what you consider to be ideal? Are you like that in all aspects of your life, or only the ones that are the most important and will have the greatest impact on your future? I would think that given that this person clearly has experience working as a physician, they have a legitimate opinion and should be able to share it with those of us that prefer to hear all sides of an argument. So please, leave it alone for those of us that actually care to broaden our perspectives.
 
If medicine is your life goal move to Canada or Australia, go through the system there, and become a doctor. Like I said, I may end up practicing there myself.

You need to understand something about life: cost and quality are often mutually exclusive goals. That's why a BMW or Lexus costs more than a Volkswagen or Jeep. The system is obsessed with cost. As a physician your paycheck becomes part of that cost.

You cannot work in a system that can is obsessed with replacing you with lower paid workers, demanding perfection without being willing to pay for it, and holding you legally liable when you can't because of the constraints they have placed on you. Nothing in life can work that way.

But hey, if you want to learn this the hard way that's fine with me.
 
Ashley1989 said:
So basically what you're saying is that you prefer to just hear one side of the argument, and don't want to hear any thoughts that are not in line with what you consider to be ideal? Are you like that in all aspects of your life, or only the ones that are the most important and will have the greatest impact on your future? I would think that given that this person clearly has experience working as a physician, they have a legitimate opinion and should be able to share it with those of us that prefer to hear all sides of an argument. So please, leave it alone for those of us that actually care to broaden our perspectives.
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He didn't say that at all. It's one thing to get different perspectives, it's another to get one that's presented in a manner that spells out doom for anyone that pursues medicine.
 
NontradCA said:
He didn't say that at all. It's one thing to get different perspectives, it's another to get one that's presented in a manner that spells out doom for anyone that pursues medicine.
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Which in itself is a perspective. Think about it, you have to be extremely miserable to have that view. Our perception is our reality, and so clearly this person's reality sucks and that's how they view it. Anyone with half a brain will know that this person's opinion isn't sweeping and true and the person reading it is not going to immediately change their whole life goal without a second thought or opinion, but by hearing it we are offered insight into how much this person seems to regret their decision. They probably wished someone who was dissatisfied told them about their experience to make them consider the possibility that medicine really might not be the career for them and to carefully consider the alternatives. In my opinion, it's worth hearing and thinking about.
 
@Old_Mil , Thanks for your perspective, is this something you see in your specialty only or across the board? Also this article seems to talk about training foreign doctors residing in the US into nurses, is there something I am missing that says they will be allowed to physician jobs?

Thanks
 
NontradCA said:
He didn't say that at all. It's one thing to get different perspectives, it's another to get one that's presented in a manner that spells out doom for anyone that pursues medicine.
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And one that is blatantly and grossly skewed (in a very extreme direction). I too have been around medicine (both academic and clinical) my entire life and have somehow only come across ONE physician who genuinely expressed significant dissatisfaction with having chose medicine and took every opportunity she could to tell me just how awful it is. However this individual was on her third career (she already had two other professional/doctoral degrees), was very money focused, and currently in a residency in which she continually butted heads with her attendings and peers - something tells me she really wouldn't be happy in any field. Many physicians I've talked to express at least some level of dissatisfaction, but ultimately accept that there is no such thing as perfect system and that medicine is an area of lifelong growth, work, frustration, and satisfaction. If you aren't content with that and money and lifestyle take priority in your life than odds are you aren't going to be happy in this field.
 
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I work in the ER as a scribe, and I can report that 60%+ of the physicians I work with share @Old_Mil 's point of view. I don't know if that's exclusive to EM, but I would doubt it.

New docs we get out of residency report to me that they will be unable to pay off their loans in the lifespan of their career. I am not dissuaded by this, and I don't think others should be necessarily, but trying to argue that this isn't the case is just naive.

There also is not a doc who has been working with us for more than 5 years who has not been taken to court for something or other. It's the nature of the beast. Again, I don't think that it's an abandon ship type of fact, but it is a fact. @Old_Mil is not incorrect.
 
Is there ANY profession where 95% of people are satisfied with their careers? The backbone of our culture is coming home from work and complaining about our jobs to friends and significant others. Of course there are disgruntled physicians. Think about how many physicians there are in the US. What about teachers? You think they are all satisfied with their careers and the public education system? No! Are they helpless to make changes to it? Yes! Yet they show up to work every day trying to make a difference. Same thing with physicians and the healthcare system. This happens in many professions.

Even if there was a "perfect" profession, great hours, low stress, great pay, do you think it would be easy to tap into? Nope, because EVERYBODY would try to do it. Life is hard, work is hard. Deal with it.
 
Rik1111 said:
I work in the ER as a scribe, and I can report that 60%+ of the physicians I work with share @Old_Mil 's point of view. I don't know if that's exclusive to EM, but I would doubt it.

New docs we get out of residency report to me that they will be unable to pay off their loans in the lifespan of their career. I am not dissuaded by this, and I don't think others should be necessarily, but trying to argue that this isn't the case is just naive.

There also is not a doc who has been working with us for more than 5 years who has not been taken to court for something or other. It's the nature of the beast. Again, I don't think that it's an abandon ship type of fact, but it is a fact. @Old_Mil is not incorrect.
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Because they're ****ing idiots. I'm planning on paying off my $70k/yr COA med school loans in just a few years.
 
Rik1111 said:
New docs we get out of residency report to me that they will be unable to pay off their loans in the lifespan of their career...but trying to argue that this isn't the case is just naive.
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It really isn't the case as long as you're proactive about your debt and finances as soon as you begin residency - know what your repayment options are and rationally prioritize your life and lifestyle.


Rik1111 said:
There also is not a doc who has been working with us for more than 5 years who has not been taken to court for something or other. It's the nature of the beast.
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For ER and some surgical specialties, this unfortunately comes with the territory. For other specialties it is much, much less common.
 
Doctors are generally terrible with money. If they'd stop living like they were rich and instead keep living like they were middle class, those loans would disappear. So long as physicians are still earning 180k or more, large loans are only a big deal if you prioritize poorly. And the worst case scenario is PAYE, losing 10% of your income to your loans for the next 20 years. That really isn't all that bad to be in a career you love.

If physician salaries go down significantly, physician lifestyles will likely also change. A large part of the reason physicians are willing to take terrible hours, call, etc, is because their compensation compensates for this lifestyle. Significantly lower wages would probably necessitate a change to shift work.

If you got into medicine intending to go into private practice, this is probably a terrible time for you. I never intended to do so, figuring that, with the way things are going, most physicians will be employees by the time I finish residency, so I'm not really bothered by the shift. It's just something I saw as inevitable.

I highly doubt physician reimbursement in the United States will become lower than our Canadian or UK counterparts. Both make considerably more than 80-90k a year. If there is any real, credible evidence on the matter, please do share. Otherwise you're just being irrationally fearful.
 
circulus vitios said:
Because they're ******* idiots. I'm planning on paying off my $70k/yr COA med school loans in just a few years.
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If you secure house loans out of residency at lower rates than your student loans, the math can work out that it is financially beneficial to pay your house off before your student loans.

I hope you pay all that off as you plan. 🙂
 
Rik1111 said:
If you secure house loans out of residency at lower rates than your student loans, the math can work out that it is financially beneficial to pay your house off before your student loans.

I hope you pay all that off as you plan. 🙂
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Or don't buy a house and continue to live modestly and rent for a couple years after residency. I used to work with a psychiatrist who did this and manged to wipe out $300-350k in student debt in about 2-2.5 years and still put some way for savings/investing.
 
WillburCobb said:
Or don't buy a house and continue to live modestly and rent for a couple years after residency. I used to work with a psychiatrist who did this and manged to wipe out $300-350k in student debt in about 2-2.5 years and still put some way for savings/investing.
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If you can do that, I think that sounds smart.

There was a thread not long ago on why you can rarely tackle 300k of debt in a couple of years even with a ~200k salary. I'm at work and am not motivated to find it, but I think that would be a relevant link here.
 
To be fair he was living VERY cheaply (he ironically was living in the same apartment complex as I was and a 1 bed was somewhere around $200-250/month at the time), in a place where the cost of living is relatively low compared to the rest of the country, and was making WELL above the national average for inpatient psychiatrists (almost $300k/year - at the cost of a very ****ty inpatient and outpatient load and call schedule). None the less, to him it was worth it just to get that debt off his back. So although this isn't the most representative example, if one were to make similar sacrifices their first few years as an attending while living very reasonably, combined with moonlighting and/or some of the other common options (e.g., military, federal government, underserved communties, etc.), one could easily take care of their student debt in a short period of time.
 
msquaredb said:
The majority of medical school matriculants come from the fourth and fifth quintile of income according to the AAMC. I feel like most medical school graduates think they won't be able to pay off their loans in a timely manner because they are pursuing the standard of living they are accustomed to, which is that of their parents who are member of the upper incomes levels in this country.
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I shadowed a physician who said this was his one regret about entering medicine but admitted it was 100% his fault for being irresponsible. He kept emphasizing to me the importance of finding a financial advisor as soon as you begin residency so that you can hit the ground running on the right path as soon as you start making money (no matter how little it may seem for your work load).
 
Rik1111 said:
If you can do that, I think that sounds smart.

There was a thread not long ago on why you can rarely tackle 300k of debt in a couple of years even with a ~200k salary. I'm at work and am not motivated to find it, but I think that would be a relevant link here.
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It's harder with a $200k/yr salary. Assuming one is single; does not live in a ridiculously tax-heavy state like California or New York; and continues living like a resident; that's about $125k/yr post-tax earnings, minus $40k/yr post-tax living expenses which leaves about $85k/yr toward student loan payments. Of course if you match into primary care specialties -- basically the only specialties that pay $200k/yr -- you could look into working for a hospital or group that offers student loan repayment incentives.
 
WillburCobb said:
I shadowed a physician who said this was his one regret about entering medicine but admitted it was 100% his fault for being irresponsible. He kept emphasizing to me the importance of finding a financial advisor as soon as you begin residency so that you can hit the ground running on the right path as soon as you start making money (no matter how little it may seem for your work load).
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I was told this exact same thing as well.
 
Threads like this are seriously the worse thing about sdn. The sky has been falling since this site started but some how physician incomes rise every year.
 
circulus vitios said:
It's harder with a $200k/yr salary. Assuming one is single; does not live in a ridiculously tax-heavy state like California or New York; and continues living like a resident; that's about $125k/yr post-tax earnings, minus $40k/yr post-tax living expenses which leaves about $85k/yr toward student loan payments. Of course if you match into primary care specialties -- basically the only specialties that pay $200k/yr -- you could look into working for a hospital or group that offers student loan repayment incentives.
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I think you'll find that most specialties start around $200k. http://www.profilesdatabase.com/resources/2011-2012-physician-salary-survey

And I do not think you're approaching the income realistically. Your sweeping sums are guesses, and they are far from reality. I encourage you to check out http://whitecoatinvestor.com/

There is a reason the pros on that site factor in your loan payment for quite a while after exiting residency.
 
WillburCobb said:
I shadowed a physician who said this was his one regret about entering medicine but admitted it was 100% his fault for being irresponsible. He kept emphasizing to me the importance of finding a financial advisor as soon as you begin residency so that you can hit the ground running on the right path as soon as you start making money (no matter how little it may seem for your work load).
Click to expand...

I don't know how giving away a percentage of your portfolio to a financial advisor for information you can learn on your own is a positive step towards resolving financial issues.
 
Rik1111 said:
I think you'll find that most specialties start around $200k. http://www.profilesdatabase.com/resources/2011-2012-physician-salary-survey

And I do not think you're approaching the income realistically. Your sweeping sums are guesses, and they are far from reality. I encourage you to check out http://whitecoatinvestor.com/

There is a reason the pros on that site factor in your loan payment for quite a while after exiting residency.
Click to expand...
AAMC pulls data from MGMA, so I think I'll trust MGMA over whatever the hell company that is.

My "sweeping sums" are not guesses. As a single person you'll be taking home 58-62% of your gross pay, depending on where you live.

edit: Starting FM w/o obstetrics salary is $138k, starting pediatrics salary is $162k. lmao, sounds like a good survey.
 
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