yes...well, most sdn users are not IMGs or FMGs...those with experience applying as an IMG frankly have a little more insight...
As noted by gutonc, I am an IMG and have extensive personal experience as a residency and fellowship applicant, subsequent matching and interviewing candidates.
even if a program states ECFMG certified on the website, when you talk to the RC, they really mean verified...esp for 4th year students...
Yes, that is true, there may be exceptions to the rule.
if one has graduated, they may then request the certification (knowing that the certification is only possible once a person has diploma in hand)...of course there are places that do want the ECFMG certification...but that's just their "subtle" way of saying they really don't want I/FMGs...
The latter is absolutely true but has really nothing to do with the OP. The *reason* programs want the ECFMG certification is not important if it is required without exception.
if (s)he is then, sorry...but when i was applying, i was pretty geographically broad and as a USIMG knew i had to look at alot of programs...there where a handful...maybe 10? out of the initial 200 some programs i looked at that truly were ECFMG certification in hand (either by interview or ROL day)...many were in Tx and Ill as well as the above mentioned Cali...most programs in the NE and the South didn't require more than verification (which is needed by ROL day anyway)...so no i don't think ~10 out of 200 is "many".
There are over 4000 programs in the United States which offer PGY-1 positions and nearly 30,000 positions. Thus, your experience with 200 programs (Internal Medicine as I recall) is not broad based. I can tell you, IMHO, surgical programs often do require ECFMG certification for interview.
Thus, I contend that many of the programs I am familiar with require it. I am not interested in arguing about what constitutes "many", other than to state that its not as rare as some would believe. Whether that is a hard and fast rule or whether they do it to simply "scare" off FMGs/IMGs doesn't matter. The OP needs to realize that programs do have those rules.
In addition to my personal experience, over the years, there have been plenty of SDN users who have found that programs are much more receptive when a certificate is in hand. There is just no arguing that.
its poor advice to tell a person...oh many programs want certification up front when its not really true...it limits them in their already limited choices.
and most sdn posters are USMD or DO students...many have preconceived notions of the IMG/FMG route and repeat what they hear from friends or friends of friends...and like any telephone game, the info gets distorted...
But it
is true.
As a foreign grad myself who has been through the gauntlet of the US medical education system as an applicant and now as faculty, and as someone who has worked on SDN for over 13 years, I am well aware of what is true and what are preconceived notions. My post was simply informing the OP about requirements that some programs have that he/she was unaware of. If you find it "poor advice" to advise posters about the potential problems then we will just have to agree to disagree, because I find it beneficial for applicants to know all the potential roadblocks. Better to be prepared for something that might not happen, rather than be surprised. I feel that there is too much at stake for the OP to simply be guided without being told about the issues. If he/she finds that having the certificate is not a problem, then I am thrilled for him/her as it means they can start their education earlier. Unpopular advice should not be interpreted as "poor advice".
Not too sure about that.
I applied to IM this year, 126 places total. USIMG with above average board scores, no red flags, got more than 35 interviews and eventually had to cancel. No place ever brought up the actual certificate (ie had to have diploma etc etc), but of course wanted to see verified (ie passed 1, CK, CS, etc.) (I think thats a requirement).
To say that 1/2 of them require it is wrong, once again, depends on the applicant, the school they are coming from, and everything else..
You and rokshana are speaking about IM programs; there are thousands of programs out there which are not IM and for which the OP may be applying.
Also read their sites, alot of places put alot of "requirements," that they dont follow through with..Alot of places said certified by January of 2013, and I know multiple people from my school matched at programs like this and wont be really certified until the start of their residency. Depends on how bad they want someone, because as we know rules can always be bent.
Again, you and rokshana are misinterpreting the intent of my post. It is TRUE that programs may require ECFMG certification. Is is TRUE that programs may bend the rules. It is TRUE that the OP will also not likely be ready to start residency on July 1.
Does that mean that he/she absolutely shouldn't apply? No. I never said that. I simply said he may consider delaying his application. Applying with the strongest application is especially important in this day and age. Your best chance is your first chance.
The OP needs to be aware that there are programs who require, at least state they require, ECFMG certification for interview or ROL.
I stand by my statement that telling the OP this is helpful. Telling posters you are a "special flower" and will have rules bent for you is not helpful.
