Getting into D.O school with a 17 MCAT ?!

[Columbia09]

I met someone at my Alpha Epsilon Delta meeting who was admitted into a D.O school, CCOM, with a 17 MCAT score. He has a 3.86 GPA and did do research. This is the lowest score I heard of gaining admissions. BTW he's not an URM

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I met someone at my Alpha Epsilon Delta meeting who was admitted into a D.O school, CCOM, with a 17 MCAT score. He has a 3.86 GPA and did do research. This is the lowest score I heard of gaining admissions. BTW he's not an URM

Legacy status + donations + luck = a slim possibility.

 

[Goro]

My thoughts also. My school has had to admit people who as dumb as posts at times.

Legacy status + donations + luck = a slim possibility.

 

[tmandudeguy]

that's disgusting.... I mean... cmon. i think im personally pushing it with a 27

 

[Dreamstoo]

that's disgusting.... I mean... cmon. i think im personally pushing it with a 27

My friend knows of a person who got into a top 10 MD school with a sub-3.0 gpa and a less than 20 MCAT score....

I don't understand how any admissions board would think that person would be able to deal with the vigor curriculum.

 

[HopefulReapp]

I don't understand how any admissions board would think that person would be able to deal with the vigor curriculum.

I think that you can argue that for MD vs DO actually. Both put out quality physicians who are paid the same salaries for the same specialties, yet DO has less stringent academic standards. Maybe GPA/MCAT are not as good of an indicator for the quality of a physician as many of us believe.

I do find it difficult to understand how someone with <20 could deal with a medical school curriculum, though.

 

[Dreamstoo]

]I think that you can argue that for MD vs DO actually. Both put out quality physicians who are paid the same salaries for the same specialties, yet DO has less stringent academic standards. M[/B]aybe GPA/MCAT are not as good of an indicator for the quality of a physician as many of us believe.

I do find it difficult to understand how someone with <20 could deal with a medical school curriculum, though.

Yeah, I mean the person got in with a 46 Lizzy M score as a URM at a school with a 74 Lizzy M score- 3.8/36 (this is at a MD).

I just think that's messed up how there are 70+ Lizzy M scores who were rejected for an accepted 46 Lizzy M.

 

[jockdoc97]

I heard someone got into marian with a 17 or 18 too. How crazy. It was on their thread from last year because someone with good/decent stats was waitlisted or rejected. They said there is more to look at than just a number. seems fishy.

 

[TreadLightly]

I heard someone got into marian with a 17 or 18 too. How crazy. It was on their thread from last year because someone with good/decent stats was waitlisted or rejected. They said there is more to look at than just a number. seems fishy.

There are always things more important than numbers: race, how rich and influential your uncle is, etc.

Clearly, these things will make you a better doctor and that's why the MCAT is just a formality.

 

[Columbia09]

It just goes to show that MCAT scores aren't everything especially at the D.O schools. Btw is anyone here in AED ?

 

[PinknGreenMD]

I think that you can argue that for MD vs DO actually. Both put out quality physicians who are paid the same salaries for the same specialties, yet DO has less stringent academic standards. Maybe GPA/MCAT are not as good of an indicator for the quality of a physician as many of us believe.

I do find it difficult to understand how someone with <20 could deal with a medical school curriculum, though.

Exactly why the medical school curriculum is changing, pre-requisite courses are changing, and MCAT weight for admissions is becoming less of a determining factor..

 

[NontradCA]

How does someone get a 17 on the MCAT?

 

[VisualEvolution]

Exactly why the medical school curriculum is changing, pre-requisite courses are changing, and MCAT weight for admissions is becoming less of a determining factor..

How is this the case when when the MCAT average for people who matriculate is almost always higher than the year before. I've heard that GPA correlates stronger with medical school performance, whereas the MCAT has a stronger correlation with board scores. Intuitively this makes sense I think.

 

[VisualEvolution]

How does someone get a 17 on the MCAT?

I agree this is a pretty bad score but I have to note that my first mcat practice was a 14, and I ended up with a 27, so a 17 I would think is very possible lol. I think anyone who settles for a 17 isn't reaching their full capability, and has just given up. There's just too much work that can be done with that score, there shouldn't be any excuse for someone to settle with it.

 

[Columbia09]

I agree this is a pretty bad score but I have to note that my first mcat practice was a 14, and I ended up with a 27, so a 17 I would think is very possible lol. I think anyone who settles for a 17 isn't reaching their full capability, and has just given up. There's just too much work that can be done with that score, there shouldn't be any excuse for someone to settle with it.

I'm pretty sure anybody and I mean anybody who has a good work ethic can get at least a 25. My friend is as dumb as nails and he got a 28 on his MCAT.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

How does someone get a 17 on the MCAT?

I imagine it's probably something funny like a 1 in Vr.

 

[Columbia09]

I imagine it's probably something funny like a 1 in Vr.

I think you would have to try to get a 1 in verbal

 

[VisualEvolution]

I'm pretty sure anybody and I mean anybody who has a good work ethic can get at least a 25. My friend is as dumb as nails and he got a 28 on his MCAT.

We'll thanks :/ lol. Well I mean a score of 24 is 50th percentile on a test that sits the smartest students. Anything above that would mean that a person is generally pretty smart. For instance, while A score of 27 isn't so hot on the mcat, I scored in the 95th percentile on a critical thinking test at my university. You gotta look at it in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: isn't a 1 in verbal the same likelihood as like a 13 lol

 

[Columbia09]

We'll thanks :/ lol. Well I mean a score of 24 is 50th percentile on a test that sits the smartest students. Anything above that would mean that a person is generally pretty smart. For instance, while A score of 27 isn't so hot on the mcat, I scored in the 95th percentile on a critical thinking test at my university. You gotta look at it in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: isn't a 1 in verbal the same likelihood as like a 13 lol

Is a 24 really the 50th percentile ? So almost half of the people taking the test score in the teens ? That's sad

 

[TriagePreMed]

I call bull**** on the story. Not necessarily the OP lying but maybe the guy/gal was just messing with you.

 

[Escape_Goat]

How is this the case when when the MCAT average for people who matriculate is almost always higher than the year before. I've heard that GPA correlates stronger with medical school performance, whereas the MCAT has a stronger correlation with board scores. Intuitively this makes sense I think.

I think a case could be made that the current model for selecting applicants has resulted in an arms race mentality where students are obsessed with having the highest numbers and ECs that they think will impress adcoms, rather than have experiences that are meaningful to them personally. Look at those medical mission trips; several years ago, they were highly regarded. Now, they're often derided as medical tourism because so many people jumped on that bandwagon to have that check mark on their app.

Don't get me wrong, demonstrating an ability to handle the rigors of a med school curriculum is vital, and GPA and MCAT scores are important factors in that. But, with a growing number of non-trads applying to medical schools, how GPA is weighed needs to be reevaluated.

It's anecdotal, but I have a non-trad friend with a cGPA of ~2.5, despite hitting a 4.0 during his final year of undergrad and finishing his MS with a 3.9. Even with a 33 MCAT, his Lizzy is something like a 58. He has years of genetics research under his belt and has worked in an ED for 2 years. But, judging by his numbers alone, he's not that competitive.

So yea, numbers are important to an extent, but there's more to an applicant than just scores.

 

[VisualEvolution]

I agree with you 100%, and I thought about that confounding variable as well. It could be very possible that higher MCAT scores could be a result of our own competitiveness, and not so much something that adcoms are putting more emphasis on, but there is not evidence that they are not. The problem with people who are non-trads is that these schools receive 2000-10000 applications. The quickest way to judge applicants is based off their numbers/ECs/interviews. If they were to look into each and everyone's personal stories, our cycle would last much longer than a year. It is true though, there is more to an applicant than scores. People who get in with mediocre scores are living proof.

 

[cabinbuilder]

How does someone get a 17 on the MCAT?

A friend of mine in medical school got a 17. Brilliant doctor with super bad dyslexia. They tested her orally and she answered just about every question correctly. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that you may not know about. Tests scores aren't everyting.


On the flip side, there was a girl in my residency who was kicked out of ER residency for being super dangerous and not having good emotional control on her psych meds. When she took step III of the COMLEX her score was 796 out of a possible 800. She is scary dangerous and I would NEVER let her touch any of my patients.

SCORES don't mean a damn thing.

 

[Columbia09]

A friend of mine in medical school got a 17. Brilliant doctor with super bad dyslexia. They tested her orally and she answered just about every question correctly. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that you may not know about. Tests scores aren't everyting.


On the flip side, there was a girl in my residency who was kicked out of ER residency for being super dangerous and not having good emotional control on her psych meds. When she took step III of the COMLEX her score was 796 out of a possible 800. She is scary dangerous and I would NEVER let her touch any of my patients.

SCORES don't mean a damn thing.

I wish the adcoms would understand this lol. I mean why is there a PS section on the MCAT for ?

 

[TriagePreMed]

I wish the adcoms would understand this lol. I mean why is there a PS section on the MCAT for ?

I agree with this PS hatred. Yes, I'm biased because I did poorly on it, but every piece of research I've seen between MCAT and USMLE correlation say that it's the bio and verbal sections that most strongly predict your USMLE score (0.6 correlation).

 

[chizledfrmstone]

How does someone get a 17 on the MCAT?

I've seen some very intelligent people get low scores on the MCAT. After being out of school for a while and just guessing I was getting a 21. People smarter than me were getting lower. One guy I knew could go through TPR or EK 1001 and solve any problem without hesitation. He ended up getting a score in the low teens and gave up. Someone I met had a 18-21 on the MCAT and got into great DO school a few years ago. She is a great physician now.

There are many reasons people do bad on the MCAT. It could be 1 bad section hey can't crack :cough: VR :cough: . It could be they have a bad study habit they refuse to change.

When I used the same methods to study for the MCAT as I did for undergrad classes I did horrible. No matter how hard I studied I was getting the same score as I was when guessing based on intuition. When I realized that it hit me pretty hard. I kept doing problem sets and since I got them right I knew I had the content down. If I was getting the same score when guessing then there was a problem with me interpreting and integrating the information specifically on the MCAT. After doing 2 practice tests and just understanding how questions were presented my score went up ~7 points. I started relying less on stuff I had memorized because I found out if I read the passage correctly the information was ALREADY IN THERE. I just had to take the information and adjust it a bit. I had been practicing hard but I was practicing on the wrong thing. I had to train my brain to approach the MCAT a certain way.

I'm happy with my score but I think my MCAT score would be 2-3 points higher if there was less math. Math is my biggest weakness and in College I spent 3-4 hours a day on math and 1 hour a week on biology to get an A. There were a few problems I knew how to solve but probably just screwed up on the math. Will being bad at math make me a bad health professional one day?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Isn't it common for URM's to get into medical school with sub par stats?

In the DO world, only african-americans seem to receive some leniency in regards to grades. Their average is about a 3.25/22 with the low on the standard deviation being 3.0/20, but all other minority groups, yes including hispanic and native americans, have roughly the same average as caucasian students. In the MD world, the "sub par stats" of minorities are nearly equivalent to the average of DO students, so it's not that big of a discrepancy where a 17 gets you in.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I wish the adcoms would understand this lol. I mean why is there a PS section on the MCAT for ?

It really should be just a determination of whether or not you reach a level of competence that is adequate. And given the research I think that's all that it really can be predictive of.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I've seen some very intelligent people get low scores on the MCAT. After being out of school for a while and just guessing I was getting a 21. People smarter than me were getting lower. One guy I knew could go through TPR or EK 1001 and solve any problem without hesitation. He ended up getting a score in the low teens and gave up. Someone I met had a 18-21 on the MCAT and got into great DO school a few years ago. She is a great physician now.

I hate to say I need to see it to believe it. If this person was doing TPRH, the passages are fairly equivalent to the MCAT. There's no way you solve any problem without hesitation and end up with a score in the teens. If this was the case, TPRH would be considered poor test prep because it doesn't prepare you for the exam. There's more likely something else going on. Severe test anxiety or something.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I hate to say I need to see it to believe it. If this person was doing TPRH, the passages are fairly equivalent to the MCAT. There's no way you solve any problem without hesitation and end up with a score in the teens. If this was the case, TPRH would be considered poor test prep because it doesn't prepare you for the exam. There's more likely something else going on. Severe test anxiety or something.

I meant the discreet questions in TPR workbook and of course EK 1001.

The passages are a completely different beast.

 

[Roxas]

Is a 24 really the 50th percentile ? So almost half of the people taking the test score in the teens ? That's sad

I think a 26 is 50th percentile. I scored a 24 the first time which was about 40th percentile

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think a 26 is 50th percentile. I scored a 24 the first time which was about 40th percentile

25 is 50th percentile per se. However I think 24 is considered the theoretical average with all scores being 8s. But yes, percentile I think changes depending on where you got your scores actually. Ex. a 10 in Vr = 77th percentile yes a 10 in PS is a lower 70 or even 60.

 

[cabinbuilder]

. Will being bad at math make me a bad health professional one day?

NO, there is very minimal math working as a doctor. Most of what I do is calculate dosing for ped antibiotics. My son who is a senior is in advanced math in HS that is far beyond what I ever took. Math is not logical to me. You will be fine.

 

[Columbia09]

NO, there is very minimal math working as a doctor. Most of what I do is calculate dosing for ped antibiotics. My son who is a senior is in advanced math in HS that is far beyond what I ever took. Math is not logical to me. You will be fine.

The math on the PS section is minimal anyway. It's mostly conceptual

 

[Columbia09]

I meant the discreet questions in TPR workbook and of course EK 1001.

The passages are a completely different beast.

Did he not practice with the AAMC tests ?

 

[ChuckSlayer]

This is what scares me when it comes to taking the MCAT. I am a terrible "Standardized" test taker so to speak. I do well on normal tests but anything like SAT's or the such I've bombed no matter how much prep. Surprised I even passed my nursing boards to be honest.

Going to be taking a University MCAT prep course next fall, so I guess we will see how that turns out.

I am a believer that tests don't judge a persons knowledge of material or intelligence. I know some classmates that know information inside and out but still get 75-80's on tests and whatnot. Not just memorization stuff, but actual learning the material and able to apply it.


I broke my back... It's spinal.

 

[Temperature101]

The URM stats for MD are somewhat misleading since most oh these URMs are concentrated in the HBCU and Puerto Rican schools... and the HBCU schools average are 3.4 and 25-26 mcat... and PR school stats are 3.3 and 19-23 mcat... If a URM don't want to go to these schools, their stats should be higher... My guesstimate is 3.5 and 28-29 mcat.

 

[Escape_Goat]

I wish the adcoms would understand this lol. I mean why is there a PS section on the MCAT for ?

Probably because the ability to unit conversions quickly on-the-fly and understanding fluid dynamics are useful when needing to administer medications and how fluids travel through all those tubes in our bodies, respectively.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The math on the PS section is minimal anyway. It's mostly conceptual

Not exactly, a lot of it can be figured out and played around with just conceptual work. However a lot will require mathematics.

 

[NontradCA]

A friend of mine in medical school got a 17. Brilliant doctor with super bad dyslexia. They tested her orally and she answered just about every question correctly. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that you may not know about. Tests scores aren't everyting.


On the flip side, there was a girl in my residency who was kicked out of ER residency for being super dangerous and not having good emotional control on her psych meds. When she took step III of the COMLEX her score was 796 out of a possible 800. She is scary dangerous and I would NEVER let her touch any of my patients.

SCORES don't mean a damn thing.

So then why do we have them? Scores do mean something: in most cases Id say that people who don't score well on tests don't prepare as much as they should. Your friends are the exceptions, not the rule; much like the person in question. Do the absolute best you can at everything in life. If it's not for some personal mantra, do it for those who rely on you. It's a sure sign of maturity.

 

[Columbia09]

Random thought, one thing that really ticks me off is when I see "you should rethink your career path" because of a low MCAT score. That test should not keep you from med school, at least the bottom of the barrel ones. I know it's ''important" but it's just one factor. Most of us have bio degrees and can't rethink our career paths. I mean seriously how are we to make a living, doing a low paid research position ?

 

[Escape_Goat]

There are also high paying research positions.

 

[Columbia09]

There are also high paying research positions.

Very rare and you need major connections

 

[TopTomato]

Random thought, one thing that really ticks me off is when I see "you should rethink your career path" because of a low MCAT score. That test should not keep you from med school, at least the bottom of the barrel ones. I know it's ''important" but it's just one factor. Most of us have bio degrees and can't rethink our career paths. I mean seriously how are we to make a living, doing a low paid research position ?

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree that the MCAT doesn't change what type of doctor your're going to be. But I do believe the times i've seen people say it on here were to people who have taken the MCAT 3+ times and have studied months, years or whatever and have failed to crack a 24+ barrier. It's not that these people wouldn't make great doctors, I believe adcoms look at these people and are afraid they might not pass the boards. And students not passing boards creates negative press for the school. I guess not admitting these people is just a way adcoms are looking out for the best interests/reputation of the school.

 

[user3]

VCOM admits lots of people with low 20's MCAT, they seem to do just fine with boards.

 

[Mehd School]

It's really none of my business what anyone's MCAT score is other than my own, but I can't help but think schools are possibly doing these students a huge disservice by allowing them a seat to a school while performing so poorly on a standardized test.

Of course, people are entitled to their opinion and mine seems to ruffle some feathers from time to time, but having taken the test twice I can attest that someone with less than average intelligence can obtain a score of at least a 20 with a little work. Someone posting a 17 shows someone was either lazy, unfocused, or has an impairment with taking standardized tests. And medical schools love standardized tests.

 

[costales]

I call bull**** on the story. Not necessarily the OP lying but maybe the guy/gal was just messing with you.

I agree. Some people don't like to share their real stats. BTW a guy with 3.86 GPA and research is not dumb.

 

[m1021]

I met a girl who, didn't get accepted obviously, but applied to schools with a 9. Yes, that's composite.
She would probably kill for a 17!

 

[TopTomato]

I met a girl who, didn't get accepted obviously, but applied to schools with a 9. Yes, that's composite.
She would probably kill for a 17!

A 9? How is that possible? I'm pretty sure you can put A for the whole exam and get the same score

 

[m1021]

A 9? How is that possible? I'm pretty sure you can put A for the whole exam and get the same score

I know, right! I laughed when she told me because I thought she was kidding... I felt really bad, but I honestly thought you couldn't get under a 4 in each section since that's usually what's in the grading charts for the practice tests. She just took it again, so hopefully she at least guesses better