getting kicked out of med school

[green plastic]

So my school decides to finally start running background checks on students.....and they have me fill out this form. They are doing background checks on the past 7 years. Now I just stated on it that I have been living at my present address for 7 years....but i've only been living here for 3 years. Well in another state I had this one misdemeanor of petty theft 3 yrs ago. So anyway, on the report it now says "hawk alert", that I had not listed all my addresses in the past 7 years and it has that misdemeanor listed. I'm a m3 now. Do you think I'll get kicked out? 🙁 I'm really worried. Any advice appreciated.

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[Law2Doc]

So my school decides to finally start running background checks on students.....and they have me fill out this form. They are doing background checks on the past 7 years. Now I just stated on it that I have been living at my present address for 7 years....but i've only been living here for 3 years. Well in another state I had this one misdemeanor of petty theft 3 yrs ago. So anyway, on the report it now says "hawk alert", that I had not listed all my addresses in the past 7 years and it has that misdemeanor listed. I'm a m3 now. Do you think I'll get kicked out? 🙁 I'm really worried. Any advice appreciated.

Doesn't sound like a real story (hawk alert sounds awfully bogus). But lying on such a form is far worse than if they turned up the misdemeanor, and suggests that your bad decisionmakeing and dishonesty is not a thing of the past.

 

[deleted87716]

Doesn't sound like a real story (hawk alert sounds awfully bogus).

"Hawk" is a fraud-detection program used by credit-reporting agencies. A "hawk alert" simply means that information such as an address, SSN, etc. doesn't entirely check out, and further investigation is needed.

Ref: http://www.aaacreditinc.com/hawkalert.htm

 

[Law2Doc]

"Hawk" is a fraud-detection program used by credit-reporting agencies. A "hawk alert" simply means that information such as an address, SSN, etc. doesn't entirely check out, and further investigation is needed.

Ref: http://www.aaacreditinc.com/hawkalert.htm

Cool - learned something new today. Thanks.

 

[Jon Davis]

You have no choice. You have to come clean, which you should have in the first place. Go to your Dean and get it resolved quickly. I believe getting kicked out of med school is a process in itself which can take time. Even if they decide to take action, you have the opportunity to explain yourself.

 

[Llenroc]

Maybe you should have thought of this before you committed theft.

Actions have consequences. Welcome to the real world.

 

[silas2642]

So my school decides to finally start running background checks on students.....and they have me fill out this form. They are doing background checks on the past 7 years. Now I just stated on it that I have been living at my present address for 7 years....but i've only been living here for 3 years. Well in another state I had this one misdemeanor of petty theft 3 yrs ago. So anyway, on the report it now says "hawk alert", that I had not listed all my addresses in the past 7 years and it has that misdemeanor listed. I'm a m3 now. Do you think I'll get kicked out? 🙁 I'm really worried. Any advice appreciated.

Did your school ever ask you about whether or not you have ever been convicted of a misdemeanor? I know that amcas asks about felonies, but does it ask about misdemeanors? If you blatantly lied about ever committing a crime, yeah, you could definitely get kicked out. What the hell did you steal, anyway?

 

[doctorFred]

Maybe you should have thought of this before you committed theft.

Actions have consequences. Welcome to the real world.

 

[mjl1717]

delete

 

[mjl1717]

Maybe you should have thought of this before you committed theft.

Actions have consequences. Welcome to the real world.

Hmm, here's a real compassionate doc, {who never made a mistake by the way}!
If it was me Id run to my dean and hope for mercy.

 

[RxnMan]

Did your school ever ask you about whether or not you have ever been convicted of a misdemeanor? I know that amcas asks about felonies, but does it ask about misdemeanors? If you blatantly lied about ever committing a crime, yeah, you could definitely get kicked out. What the hell did you steal, anyway?

Exactly. While, concievably, you could have volunteered this information in the interview, they may not have asked before, so this would be the first time you thought to inform them.

How old are you? Depending on your age and when you committed the crime, you may have had your record wiped clean when you turned 18. If that's the case, you don't have to report anything that happened during those years. Similarly, if you had items expunged from your record after a probationary period (as a part of a deal with the judge), then you don't need to report those either.

 

[OSUdoc08]

So my school decides to finally start running background checks on students.....and they have me fill out this form. They are doing background checks on the past 7 years. Now I just stated on it that I have been living at my present address for 7 years....but i've only been living here for 3 years. Well in another state I had this one misdemeanor of petty theft 3 yrs ago. So anyway, on the report it now says "hawk alert", that I had not listed all my addresses in the past 7 years and it has that misdemeanor listed. I'm a m3 now. Do you think I'll get kicked out? 🙁 I'm really worried. Any advice appreciated.

If you are stupid enough to lie on a background check, then you deserve to get kicked out.

That fact that you are a thief is only icing on the cake.....

 

[Law2Doc]

Depending on your age and when you committed the crime, you may have had your record wiped clean when you turned 18. If that's the case, you don't have to report anything that happened during those years. Similarly, if you had items expunged from your record after a probationary period (as a part of a deal with the judge), then you don't need to report those either.

Just a word of caution -- the rules are not the same in every state re this. Don't assume there is a blanket rule.

 

[nabeya]

wow, its one thing to have made a mistake 3 years ago but its another thing to actually blatantly lie on a application very recently.

I doubt they'd care for a crime like that, maybe they're looking for other things like sex crimes (child molestation, rape)

So my school decides to finally start running background checks on students.....and they have me fill out this form. They are doing background checks on the past 7 years. Now I just stated on it that I have been living at my present address for 7 years....but i've only been living here for 3 years. Well in another state I had this one misdemeanor of petty theft 3 yrs ago. So anyway, on the report it now says "hawk alert", that I had not listed all my addresses in the past 7 years and it has that misdemeanor listed. I'm a m3 now. Do you think I'll get kicked out? 🙁 I'm really worried. Any advice appreciated.

 

[silas2642]

Doesn't sound like a real story (hawk alert sounds awfully bogus). But lying on such a form is far worse than if they turned up the misdemeanor, and suggests that your bad decisionmakeing and dishonesty is not a thing of the past.

See, that's just the thing... stealing is a big deal; it's not like you were hiding an underage drinking incident or something. The right thing would be to come clean with your dean and explain what you did, however, it may be prudent (if you don't want this to turn into a gigantic mess) to consult with a lawyer.

 

[Law2Doc]

See, that's just the thing... stealing is a big deal; it's not like you were hiding an underage drinking incident or something. The right thing would be to come clean with your dean and explain what you did, however, it may be prudent (if you don't want this to turn into a gigantic mess) to consult with a lawyer.

What I was saying is that dishonesty was a thing of the distant past, you might be able to convince a dean to keep you on. Lying about it now confirms that it isn't a thing of the past -- it's apparently the kind of guy you are. That makes it harder for them to overlook it. Most schools cannot tolerate lying and cheating.

 

[RxnMan]

Just a word of caution -- the rules are not the same in every state re this. Don't assume there is a blanket rule.

You're absolutely right. I was waiting for you to give my post the legal once-over!

What I was saying is that dishonesty was a thing of the distant past, you might be able to convince a dean to keep you on. Lying about it now confirms that it isn't a thing of the past -- it's apparently the kind of guy you are. That makes it harder for them to overlook it. Most schools cannot tolerate lying and cheating.

I agree.

The hardest part about having a bad past is not 'fessing up, but keeping the lie going. It is hard, but in the long run, coming clean is better. Being forthright about everything, every day, is a part of being a good human being, let alone a doc.

 

[sentrosi]

Hmm, here's a real compassionate doc, {who never made a mistake by the way}!
If it was me Id run to my dean and hope for mercy.

Recognizing that actions have consequences in the real world doesn't necesarily mean that someone hasn't ever made a mistake. Maybe they got burned by some situation like this in the past and learned a lesson from it.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Recognizing that actions have consequences in the real world doesn't necesarily mean that someone hasn't ever made a mistake. Maybe they got burned by some situation like this in the past and learned a lesson from it.

Obviously if you made a mistake in the past and try to cover it up by lying on a legal document, you haven't learned the lesson from it. See the OP.

 

[deuist]

You're an M3 and committed the crime three years ago? mmmm... And you didn't report it on the AMCAS? Care to tell me which leprechaun you stole from?

 

[clicky]

You're an M3 and committed the crime three years ago? mmmm... And you didn't report it on the AMCAS? Care to tell me which leprechaun you stole from?

OP's post history sure has a lot of questions about misdemeanors... although originally it was green plastic's "cousin" who was stressing out over a jewelry theft.

Take it from a total troll -- this OP isn't a troll.

 

[doctorFred]

If you are stupid enough to lie on a background check, then you deserve to get kicked out.

That fact that you are a thief is only icing on the cake.....

yeah, again, i reiterate..



you have lied, stolen, or otherwise cheated at one point or another several times in your life. everyone has. give the guy a break and grow up.

 

[sentrosi]

Obviously if you made a mistake in the past and try to cover it up by lying on a legal document, you haven't learned the lesson from it. See the OP.

I'm talking about Llenroc. Seeing as he posted what mjl1717 consideres uncompassionate. Not sure what you are referring to, but I'm saying that Llenroc may have been in a similar situation and has learned from it and that's why he has has that attitude. I'm just speculating.

 

[thesauce]

So my school decides to finally start running background checks on students.....and they have me fill out this form. They are doing background checks on the past 7 years. Now I just stated on it that I have been living at my present address for 7 years....but i've only been living here for 3 years. Well in another state I had this one misdemeanor of petty theft 3 yrs ago. So anyway, on the report it now says "hawk alert", that I had not listed all my addresses in the past 7 years and it has that misdemeanor listed. I'm a m3 now. Do you think I'll get kicked out? 🙁 I'm really worried. Any advice appreciated.

Hey, try not to worry so much. You shouldn't have lied, but I think you know that.

Always come clean when they ask you about your past. This kind of thing isn't really that uncommon. Felonies are what they're looking for and, like someone else said, specifically sex crimes and child/elder abuse.

Just let the dean know. If you come clean, this whole thing will go away as quickly as it came up. You're not going to be kicked out of medical school for this!

 

[dr4ku]

The school has to much invested in you to boot you. Now, you may end up in FP, on a Native American reservation, in southern New Mexico. That's not all bad. Cigg's are cheap and housing is really inexpensive + you will be helping people truly in need of healthcare. Everybody wins!...right! 😀

 

[OSUdoc08]

yeah, again, i reiterate..



you have lied, stolen, or otherwise cheated at one point or another several times in your life. everyone has. give the guy a break and grow up.

I didn't lie on a background check. GOSH.

 

[mjl1717]

I dont agree with anything illegal. Its just that its easy for any layman with hair to say "well why did you do that" I would just think that as aspiring docs we would try and work towards a solution and realize that the milk has been already spilled. I dont think the guy wants to hear stuff like "whats wrong with ya", or "whatdiya steal" He wants to rectify his situation so let's be supportive like we can at times. The reason this post is getting so many replies is because "it is human to err" and all make mistakes. But I agree one lession to learn from this is any kind of coverup usually makes things worse.

 

[velo]

Hmm, here's a real compassionate doc, {who never made a mistake by the way}!
If it was me Id run to my dean and hope for mercy.

doctors are held to a higher standard of personal responsibility than the general public. Like it or not you have to get used to that fact at some point.

 

[thackl]

My school did the same thing last spring and several students were called down for STERN talks, but none have been kicked out. At the very worst, I could see it showing up in your file as some sort of ethics issue.

 

[thackl]

Hey, try not to worry so much. You shouldn't have lied, but I think you know that.

Always come clean when they ask you about your past. This kind of thing isn't really that uncommon. Felonies are what they're looking for and, like someone else said, specifically sex crimes and child/elder abuse.

Just let the dean know. If you come clean, this whole thing will go away as quickly as it came up. You're not going to be kicked out of medical school for this!

This is exacly correct. More schools are now having significant pt interactions in the first two yrs and they need to look for this stuff b/f setting you loose on the wards.

 

[Law2Doc]

The school has to much invested in you to boot you.

Actually, most schools look at it not as what they have invested in you but what they have at risk. Their reputation. Most schools have invested a ton of money and effort trying to make themselves regarded as world class, and if they feel that your lying and stealing would tarnish their rep, they will lose you in a second. So it partly depends on how the school is regarded. An up and comer is less likely to be willing to take a hit on their rep as, say, a Harvard, whose rep won't be ruined by a handful of bad apples.
I agree that an uncomfortable conversation with the dean is the most likely result of the OPs actions. However, I reiterate that having the theft of years ago turn up on the background search is not nearly as bad as the subsequent effort to cover it up. Some schools are really big on professionalism, and don't tolerate things like lying. If the OP was already on thin ice (academically or whatever), he could have real problems by this subsequent action.

 

[vwhan]

You have no choice. You have to come clean, which you should have in the first place. Go to your Dean and get it resolved quickly. I believe getting kicked out of med school is a process in itself which can take time. Even if they decide to take action, you have the opportunity to explain yourself.

If you haven't already done this, you need to go talk to the Dean of Student Affairs. Your best bet is to come clean and you have to make that first step. It will look better, and more professional, if you approach the Dean rather than the Dean coming to you. Depending on the school you may not get kicked out. In fact, I believe it is tough to get kicked out once you are in.

 

[green plastic]

Just FYI, I was never convicted guilty of the theft, it ended up as an 'adjudication witheld'. Long story short, it was a goofy situation where there was a miscommunication between myself and someone I was shopping with (I thought they had already paid for it) and the store tried to press charges for me stealing a lip gloss and some fake earrings. In fact, now the court said the case is going to be sealed up this week. Once it is sealed, it is not suppose to show up on any background checks.
I'm gonna speak to the dean about all this, and also so that he knows that because it'll be sealed up, I won't run into any problems with licensure in the future.

 

[mjl1717]

doctors are held to a higher standard of personal responsibility than the general public. Like it or not you have to get used to that fact at some point.

I agree!

 

[velo]

I agree!

agreeing with velo: all the cool kids are doing it...

 

[D30417995]

Just FYI, I was never convicted guilty of the theft, it ended up as an 'adjudication witheld'. Long story short, it was a goofy situation where there was a miscommunication between myself and someone I was shopping with (I thought they had already paid for it) and the store tried to press charges for me stealing a lip gloss and some fake earrings. In fact, now the court said the case is going to be sealed up this week. Once it is sealed, it is not suppose to show up on any background checks.
I'm gonna speak to the dean about all this, and also so that he knows that because it'll be sealed up, I won't run into any problems with licensure in the future.

Good luck! All the best to you.

 

[Brett Hart]

yeah, again, i reiterate..



you have lied, stolen, or otherwise cheated at one point or another several times in your life. everyone has. give the guy a break and grow up.

You are an idiot...if you want to lie, steal, and cheat go to trade school because we don't want your kind in the medical profession. We have a professional obligation to police our own kind and I would prefer working with colleagues who had integrity and honor. Stealing is NEVER acceptable. I have NEVER stolen anything in my life...you are going to be a doctor. We are held to a higher standard when it comes to matters of integrity or honor. I think you should just quit, but hopefully you get kicked out.

 

[Stacey1984]

What school is this, UMaryland?

 

[8744]

...if you want to lie, steal, and cheat go to trade school...

Why oh why do SDNers always pick on tradesmen?

 

[StudentDoc327]

You are an idiot...if you want to lie, steal, and cheat go to trade school because we don't want your kind in the medical profession. We have a professional obligation to police our own kind and I would prefer working with colleagues who had integrity and honor. Stealing is NEVER acceptable. I have NEVER stolen anything in my life...you are going to be a doctor. We are held to a higher standard when it comes to matters of integrity or honor. I think you should just quit, but hopefully you get kicked out.

I think he was just trying to say that we all make mistakes, especialy when we are younger. If you cant imagine yourself or at least sympathize with somebody who has made a serious mistake and undoubtedly regrets it, than you are not a very humble or understanding person. Two qualities which are just as important as integrity and honor to phsycians and people in general.

I hope everything works out for the OP

 

[Law2Doc]

I think he was just trying to say that we all make mistakes, especialy when we are younger. If you cant imagine yourself or at least sympathize with somebody who has made a serious mistake and undoubtedly regrets it, than you are not a very humble or understanding person. Two qualities which are just as important as integrity and honor to phsycians and people in general.

I hope everything works out for the OP

You're putting a pretty spin on zahque's post --that the person who did something stupid in his life regrets it. But when such a prior poster justifies something by saying everyone does it, you remove blame. And it really isn't so -- quite a few people get through life without stealing, cheating, etc. It's pretty sad when one can shrug off unethical or illegal conduct merely by assuming that everyone is as unethical as he.

 

[RaaMD]

You are an idiot...if you want to lie, steal, and cheat go to trade school because we don't want your kind in the medical profession. We have a professional obligation to police our own kind and I would prefer working with colleagues who had integrity and honor. Stealing is NEVER acceptable. I have NEVER stolen anything in my life...you are going to be a doctor. We are held to a higher standard when it comes to matters of integrity or honor. I think you should just quit, but hopefully you get kicked out.

The fact that you easily put down the trade school profession speaks profoundly on what type of person you are. You also say to just quit but hope that the OP gets kicked out. I hope that he doesn't listen to your advice, but does take proper action to address the issue with the Dean. I agree with you that stealing is not acceptable, but at the same time I think you should work on your ability to be tactful in communicating your thoughts.

 

[Obedeli]

You are an idiot...if you want to lie, steal, and cheat go to trade school because we don't want your kind in the medical profession. We have a professional obligation to police our own kind and I would prefer working with colleagues who had integrity and honor. Stealing is NEVER acceptable. I have NEVER stolen anything in my life...you are going to be a doctor. We are held to a higher standard when it comes to matters of integrity or honor. I think you should just quit, but hopefully you get kicked out.

As much as I enjoy your avatar, I must take objection to this response. The "I never stolen anything in my life" quip is the greatest bit of self-righteous, pious, my s*** doesn't stink type of quote you can get. This forum is loaded with this crap. Of course, throwing less desirable professions (to you) under the bus is a coup de grâce. Having had an electrician and tree cutters at my house in the past year, I would expect them to be just as honest as a physician . . . actually more so. 😉
People on this forum need to chill. I agree, stealing is woefully dishonest but I will admit that I have stolen when I was an early teenager. This does not make it right nor do the ends justify the means. Today, I am so careful about honesty (especially in notes/dictations), I will double call people to ensure that I did what I said. Anyway, relax people. There are valid points on both sides and yes, physicians are held to a higher standard. That I do agree but there are less self-righteous methods of casting consternation than speaking in flamboyant absolutes.

 

[MedSchoolFool]

Maybe you should have thought of this before you committed theft.

Actions have consequences. Welcome to the real world.

I'm sure you are a saint Llenroc. Yep. Never done the wrong thing before, have you? Lighten up with the judgment. Dude, if anyone isn't living in the real world, then it's you!

 

[MedSchoolFool]

If you are stupid enough to lie on a background check, then you deserve to get kicked out.

That fact that you are a thief is only icing on the cake.....

OSUdoc, You know...It takes a real noble person to kick someone when they are down, doesn't it?

Just remember, those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

But I suppose I shouldn't expect better from a Cowboy fan. 👎

 

[MedSchoolFool]

You are an idiot...if you want to lie, steal, and cheat go to trade school because we don't want your kind in the medical profession. We have a professional obligation to police our own kind and I would prefer working with colleagues who had integrity and honor. Stealing is NEVER acceptable. I have NEVER stolen anything in my life...you are going to be a doctor. We are held to a higher standard when it comes to matters of integrity or honor. I think you should just quit, but hopefully you get kicked out.

Man, even Jesus brought a thief into heaven when he died. As for me, I'd much rather see a doctor who was (past tense) a thief, like the OP, than one who is a stupid redneck, like yourself.

 

[Summer.Thunder]

maybe you have kleptomania. hehe. 😉 i almost forgot that word. had to look up my note.

 

[CoolCucumber3]

To the original poster, please read this. Since I was kicked out of medical school myself, I will answer your question.

Medical schools DO NOT CARE about honesty, integrity, or ethics. All they care about is that you do well in class and pass the USMLE with a good score!

I got kicked out for failing classes, but another student at my school stole a laptop from another student's apartment and cheated on several exams and was caught cheating more than 2 times did NOT get kicked out. He had at least 3 girls complain against him for sexual harrassment and he did NOT get kicked out. (He used to hit on me so I know it is true). He had a restraining order against him by the girl whose apartment was broken into, yet he did NOT get kicked out. He even had an article about him in the school newspaper (not mentioning his name) written by another medical student about all the wrongs he has done at our school, and he still did NOT get kicked out. The deans asked his parents to fly all the way from California to attend our school to meet with them about his horrible behavior - and he still did NOT get kicked out.

Yet, I failed a class and decelerated, and then failed another class and WAS KICKED OUT IMMEDIATELY! Even though I had numerous personal issues and trauma that caused me to fail classes, they simply did not care! I was also NOT allowed to reapply to ANY program at my med school and had to leave campus IMMEDIATELY. Do you have any idea how miserable that is?

I'm not making any of this up or exaggerating. This is the hard cold truth. All schools care about are their USMLE step 1 averages. The only way you could get kicked out is if you have murdered someone. Stealing is nothing.

It is not fair at all that he is going to be a doctor from that school and I am not, but that's life. His arse is gonna be sued by malpractice lawyers and he's probably gonna lose his medical license in 20 years though so I guess we'll be even.

You have NOTHING to worry about unless you have bad grades.

 

[ils]

i kinda suspected that was the way things worked

 

[CoolCucumber3]

Yes, it is sad but true. Humble and compassionate people like me NEVER win. Like the saying goes, nice girls finish last 🙁