Getting Lab and/or Research experience

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smilin1590

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  1. Pre-Veterinary
This might sound like a dumb question but where did many of you find your lab experience or research experience. I'm looking to diversify my experiences to make me a better applicant but I'm at a loss of where to look for these kinds of things. Thanks!
 
At my university I told every adult i knew that i was looking for research that involved field work. Finally, my adviser recommended the perfect lady who did field research with avian species. I wrote her and told her my life goals and why i wanted to be involved in her work. She let me come to her lab as a student and i got a certain number of credits for going there a couple hrs each week. I was there for one semester and then she hired me that summer full time and i continued working with her for a year.

I applied to the IRTA (post bacc fellowship) at NIH. I wrote about 10 different PI's with a cover letter in the email subject and attached my resume. I interviewed with 3 of them and i signed on permenantly with one.

Leason learned: don't be afraid to write people! even ones you have never met. if you can drop a name that is good. if you have no name to drop just do it anyway and talk about the experiences you want to get out of it and why you'd be a good fit.
 
I found the guy I'm getting ready to work with this spring by flipping through every faculty webpage in the entire bio department and reading their research interests until I found someone doing something I thought was cool, then I sent him an email (cold, I had no idea who he was) asking if I could help with my résumé attached. It worked!

So, same lesson that BlackKAT said - just ask, the worst thing they can say is no, and if it's a stranger, who really cares if they say no?
 
I took a couple years off after graduation to work full-time as a lab tech. We are a research university, so I just searched through the school's job postings for entry level science careers. It has been great because I receive tuition remission and have been able to take my remaining pre-reqs for free. Besides gaining practical lab skills, I've been able to work with a new species (rodents) and have my name published in 3 different scientific journals. If you're looking for unpaid volunteer experience, I have found that most labs are always willing to have an extra pair of hands around. Some PI's may even give you your own project. It can't hurt to ask!
 
If you're looking for a job, I would go to university websites in your area and search for jobs as a tech. Medical schools have labs, there are also many private institutes, some hospitals have labs. I don't know if you want to apply to vet school again this fall, but many labs ask for a 2 year commitment.

If you want an internship...for summer internships some of the application dates may have already passed, but there are probably still some out there accepting apps.

Lab jobs are pretty readily available. I work at a large medical school and there are always open entry level positions.
 
I asked my professor for my Mammalian Reproduction class one day after lecture if he knew of anyone looking for summer help in a lab and sure enough, he needed someone! I ended up working with him in grad school too, so it turned out well.
 
Well I mean it's a little bit abstract to just say "I want research experience to help my application."

You should really figure out if you're actually interested in some area first, read up on profs you might be interested in working with and go into their labs with some knowledge of what they do in general. I don't know any professor who would bother wasting time and resources on a student who says he or she just wants "research experience."

edit: then again, I'm in a lab that gets a lot of undergraduate interest and my PI can afford to be very selective about who she takes and retains. maybe others are different...
 
It's very difficult to get a research position at my university. You basically have to be a butt kisser in order to get hired. Most professors don't even announce that they are looking for somebody... they just hire the suck-ups. It's sad, but it's sooo true!

A friend of mine was taking invertebrate zoology and the professor actually annouced to the class that he was looking for a student for a semester. She passed along that information to me and I took my resume over to the professor. I had met the prof at a conference the year before. He told me that his wife was also going to be hiring and I talked to both of them. In the end, he hired me. I'm learning how to extract DNA from a species of snail and run PCRs. I've never done this type of work before. It's alright! I don't think I want to do this type of work for the rest of my life if I don't get into vet school, but at least I can say I gave it a shot.
 
I'm learning how to extract DNA from a species of snail and run PCRs. I've never done this type of work before. It's alright! I don't think I want to do this type of work for the rest of my life if I don't get into vet school, but at least I can say I gave it a shot.

This is just the beginning of research! It gets much more fun after PCR 🙂
 
I'm learning how to extract DNA from a species of snail and run PCRs. I've never done this type of work before. It's alright! I don't think I want to do this type of work for the rest of my life if I don't get into vet school, but at least I can say I gave it a shot.

Don't worry - PCR is the sort of thing that PhDs leave to their assistants so they can focus on the fun stuff. It's like the sushi chef who made his apprentice wash dishes for 20 years before he ever let him cut fish, lol.
 
I don't know if this will actually help you, but...

I was actually required to complete a research project in high school, so that opened the door for me. I found a behavioral neuroscience lab (at the University of Kentucky) that worked with rats, and I loved it (for a while), so once my project was complete, they hired me as a lab assistant, then as a lab tech. I stayed there for over six years (not continuously, since I was attending college out of state for three of those years; more like 4 years' worth of work).

Oh, actually, I had two more experiences:

When I went off to college, I worked with one of my above PI's former grad students (so more rats). However, almost the only things available for me to do were sweeping the floors and cleaning operant boxes. I was, however, able to receive course credit (1 hour) and pay ($6.50/hour) for my time. This was through Biology Research Experience for Undergraduates (better known to some as BREU). I am not certain if this was a school specific thing or if it's a nationwide program, but it might be worth looking into.

I also worked in a social psychology lab for one semester. I got this position from a student mailing list post (it may have been just for psych students) asking for students to help with a dissertation project (for class credit). I actually responded to the list and was told they were full. Then a month into the semester, they contacted me because someone dropped out. Hooray for me! It was very interesting to see the human side of research.

Well I mean it's a little bit abstract to just say "I want research experience to help my application."

You should really figure out if you're actually interested in some area first, read up on profs you might be interested in working with and go into their labs with some knowledge of what they do in general. I don't know any professor who would bother wasting time and resources on a student who says he or she just wants "research experience."

edit: then again, I'm in a lab that gets a lot of undergraduate interest and my PI can afford to be very selective about who she takes and retains. maybe others are different...

Yes, I agree 100%. My lab and our colleagues' labs were always flooded with undergraduates who wanted to work in them (for credit, too, not pay, which meant they were not interested in paying student assistants, fyi; eta: sometimes they were looking to hire student workers for the summer), and they got their choice of the best, brightest, and most motivated to be there. They were definitely for students who at least

My advice echos nyanko's. Look at different faculty webpages in different departments, and find out who's doing something that sounds interesting. Then read some of their papers and see if it still intrigues you and if you could see yourself doing that for a bit. It would also help talking to the prof if you have some idea of what they do.

And here's another thing: as a student or even a low-level assistant, it is very likely you would be doing a lot of grunt work. For example, in our lab, our undergrads did a lot of new rat handling, rat weighing, food weighing, etc. Which is boooring. But they learned a lot about how our lab worked and what real research is like (even if they couldn't do some of it). They also were able to participate in running the experiments, but they mostly did the lower-skilled, repetitive stuff.

So make sure you want experience in that area, otherwise you might just become resentful of your "evil overlords." I'm not saying it's guaranteed to be like that everywhere (I think a lot of smaller labs have more interesting opportunities for undergrads), but that was in the neuroscience labs and in our colleague's labs.
 
thanks for all the great feedback! I agree with you Nyanko, I really do want to gain some lab and research experience not just to make me a diverse candidate. I've never had an opportunity for anything like this and I'd like to give it a try and see where it takes me. I've been looking through some faculty webpages and have found 1 or 2 that have struck my interest so we'll see what happens. Thanks everyone!
 
My sophomore year in college, two positions became available at my university at literally the same time. I took both of them. One of them was taking care of and collecting samples from a colony of rainbow-naped lorikeets for an evil grad student. I spent about a year doing that, and she ended up packing up to vet school shortly thereafter.

The second is the job I still have today. I take care of a ton of different species being used by separate labs. I do most of my work at the "home base" where our campus vet is, etc, but do go out to some satellite facilities (which are just other buildings on campus) to work, too.

I'm also going for my ALAT certification. I'm sure the AALAS website has some good resources for where to find a position. I'm not sure where you're located, but I'm in Maryland and I'm not far at all from NIH plus I'm on campus at university where a lot of professors are doing their research, so it's really a good location for me. Unfortunately, the ability to gain livestock experience is almost non-existant, so sometimes I think what experiences you can gain really depend on your location. Good luck!
 
^^That sounds like lab animal/veterinary experience rather than lab research experience. Not downplaying it at all, but it isn't exactly the same either...


smilin1590:

Good! Also don't get discouraged if your initial attempts are declined or ignored. As purplesaurus mentioned, you might have to do some sort of boring grunt work at first and it might not be exactly in your area of interest but something tangentially related.

For example, I was always interested in companion animal genetics, and I had the idea that I should first make sure that research was something I could do. My undergrad was at a school that did not have anything available in this area, so my first approach was to email various people around the department asking about if anyone had space available in their lab for an undergrad with no experience but who was willing to learn. It wasn't the greatest approach but it did land me in a neuroscience lab, where I was able to pick up on some techniques but had very little actual interest in the topic and thus little motivation to learn.

So I took a different approach and sent out emails directly to professors after reading about their research and checking out some of their publications. I got a lot of non-response and a lot of rejections, and decided that I would instead directly approach one of the non-responders in his office during his office hours over the summer. This was in Drosophila genetics, but at least was more interesting to me than the protein work I was doing in the other lab, so with the former PI's approval I changed over to the genetics lab. What I learned there was really more about the process of research than about the specifics, honestly. I had to do a lot of glassware cleaning, food pouring, fly turnover, virgin selection, all the booooring things, but also got my own project.

Because of that experience, I was able to come out to Davis and actually get into my intended field for my MS. So really, every step will help you with something. Just be willing to be flexible at first! You WILL start out as a minion and you might feel like you're in the way sometimes. You probably are in the way, but if you make yourself useful enough eventually people will forgive you for it! :meanie:
 
I took a couple years off after graduation to work full-time as a lab tech. We are a research university, so I just searched through the school's job postings for entry level science careers.

Yep, that's exactly what I did. It might be more difficult if you live in a location where there aren't very many research labs, but it was pretty easy in Boston where it's universities, research hospitals and biotech companies galore!

I searched through job postings at every hospital and university in the area every few days and spewed out my resume/coverletter to any job that I qualified for. I never even contacted any of the PI's directly, and I didn't even state an area of interest. It was more of a "I don't have any research experience beyond having taken a bunch of lab courses, but I'm hard working and I need a job/experience." No one seemed offended or disinterested because of the fact that I really didn't care about the subject they were studying. For me, the job description itself was much more important than the topic. I got several interviews and a few job offers and it landed me the most amazing tech job ever.

I have my own projects where I have a lot of input on the experimental design (and in general no one else has their hands on except occasionally the faculty researcher I work for). I'm responsible for some of the general upkeep of the lab, but everyone is responsible for cleaning/prepping for themselves. Best of all, my boss allows me to set my own schedule and plan/execute experiments as I see fit. I probably report to him voluntarily with my progress/results more than he wants to be bothered.

But as someone else has already said, most research tech positions(esp the more interesting ones) require a 2 yr commitment. I think it's totally worth it though. We get undergrads in our lab once in a while... and they're really not to be trusted to do much. We generally won't even let them touch PCRs without heavy supervision since we'll most likely have to do it over again AND there's a huge risk of them contaminating our reagents/primers (which is a pain in the *ss to sort out). So they're defaulted to molecular cloning, counting slides, minor cell culture work, etc... where it doesn't really affect anyone else negatively if they mess up. Not trying to be mean, but in such a small lab where we're already short handed, it really doesn't make sense for anyone to babysit an undergrad who even trained properly can only put in 10 hrs a week that's spread out in such a way where they don't come in enough to handle their own experiments. A lot of this probably has to do with the fact that we're a lab in a hospital, where our goal really isn't to foster a teaching experience for anyone other than post-docs. I'm sure university labs (esp at your own undergrad institution) are much more hospitable to undergrads, but if you're considering taking time off before applying, I'd say definitely consider applying for tech jobs!
 
Before you commit to any sort of 2 year tech position etc. make sure you talk to people in the lab about the sort of person your soon to be PI is. Even if they come off nicely in the first place be sure to talk to other people about them!! This person will be the dictator of your life for the next two years, they can make it wonderful or miserable. Or they can flip it from one to the other in an instant.

See what type of work the techs end up doing: is it grunt work, or does it start with that and move to project planning, design etc. If techs do move to a higher level, are they willing to give them some sort of authorship... or is it just more work, longer hours, no overtime and no awknowledgememnt?

Having a good PI is REALLY REALLY important. If the research is interesting then no lab is a complete loss but life is a whole lot easier without an egomaniac boss who abuses their employees especially since you will one day likely want an ELOR from this person.
 
^^That sounds like lab animal/veterinary experience rather than lab research experience. Not downplaying it at all, but it isn't exactly the same either...

You're correct - I should have been more clear. The current position is lab animal/vet experience. The first position with the lorikeets, I was both caring for the animals as well as collecting samples and assisting with their analysis. This was probably the better example for the original question. Sorry about that!
 
Before you commit to any sort of 2 year tech position etc. make sure you talk to people in the lab about the sort of person your soon to be PI is. Even if they come off nicely in the first place be sure to talk to other people about them!! This person will be the dictator of your life for the next two years, they can make it wonderful or miserable. Or they can flip it from one to the other in an instant.

See what type of work the techs end up doing: is it grunt work, or does it start with that and move to project planning, design etc. If techs do move to a higher level, are they willing to give them some sort of authorship... or is it just more work, longer hours, no overtime and no awknowledgememnt?

Having a good PI is REALLY REALLY important. If the research is interesting then no lab is a complete loss but life is a whole lot easier without an egomaniac boss who abuses their employees especially since you will one day likely want an ELOR from this person.

Yes. A million times yes. The PI is very important. This person dictates how the lab runs, how conflicts are resolved, how credit is given. Everything!
 
Thirded! People in the lab will be very brutally honest about that sort of thing, I find, at least in academia. Not sure how biotech labs work.

Also, if you do happen to end up working for one of those PIs, just think of it as a character building experience - and hey, after that you'll be able to work with anyone. 😉
 
Also, if you do happen to end up working for one of those PIs, just think of it as a character building experience - and hey, after that you'll be able to work with anyone. 😉

Character. Built.​


...and its true, i really do think i can work with anyone now 🙂.
 
I feel you, after being told to GET THAT #*&^*#& DATA AWAY FROM ME I DON'T FEEL LIKE DEALING WITH IT RIGHT NOW today. You know, the data I've been nagged about for like 4 days now? 🙄

...character.

I've definitely been there.

If we both get into davis we will have to swap war stories....
 
This is just the beginning of research! It gets much more fun after PCR 🙂

I actually find it pretty exciting! Most universities cover PCR in intro bio. Ours doesn't. Maybe that's why I find it kind of cool. I'm thinking of doing an honours next year, so that'll probably have me doing different things.
 
I got my lab jobs by applying to about....30-40 jobs at the university where I already worked as a web editor for the business school. They had to be entry level tech jobs, and yes, they asked for 2 year commitments, so-i now have nearly 4 years of lab animal work under my belt, which I really do think helped me get in this year.

Its great because I've learned so much and its really helped me appreciate the more scientific aspects of vet med. I have never had my own project or done any of my own research, but I've assisted in many surgeries on pigs, done tons of surgeries on mice, and still do lots of fun basic science benchwork (genotyping, pcr, rt-pcr, and lots of cell culture).

So, you don't necessarily need to be the actual researcher to still get valuable experience for vet school.

Oh-as advice, i guess-when i was applying for the jobs-someone advised me to feature my lab experience from school at the top of my resume, and then also list my animal experience, which at the time was mainly volunteer. This way people looking at my resume saw that stuff right away. I got so lucky because I did some volunteering with a horse vet, and I have a fine art degree, so the first person who hired me at a surgical skills lab *also* had a fine art degree and worked with horses before-so that immediately attracted her to me. i'm thankful cuz that got me in to the type of job i figure i'll have the rest of my life!
 
I remember reading on this forum that someone said "Any research job under a PhD involving animals" qualifies as Vet experience...
Can anyone confirm that this is the case everywhere?
specifically AVC in canada...

I have maybe 600 hours of research under a PhD in a neuroscience lab..
My job involved breeding the rats, training and testing baby rats, performing surgeries and removing brains, sectioning, and immunohistochemistry.. and so on

I was thinking this would be considered animal experience, but if it would be considered veterinary then that would strengthen my current standing...

I feel like posting here is just as well.. Making a thread would likely be redundant
 
I remember reading on this forum that someone said "Any research job under a PhD involving animals" qualifies as Vet experience...
Can anyone confirm that this is the case everywhere?
specifically AVC in canada...

I was also told that work with animals under a PhD qualifies as "veterinary experience" (I wish I could remember who told me this because I thought it was a CSU person, but as for that thought, keep reading...) and I put it on the VMCAS as such. However, during my file review at CSU, they told me it would be "animal experience" instead.

Soooo... my incredibly helpful input is that it probably varies by school. Which kinda sucks if you are using the VMCAS and have to do it one way for each school.

I don't know about AVC, so I can't help you there.
 
I remember reading on this forum that someone said "Any research job under a PhD involving animals" qualifies as Vet experience...
Can anyone confirm that this is the case everywhere?
specifically AVC in canada...

I have maybe 600 hours of research under a PhD in a neuroscience lab..
My job involved breeding the rats, training and testing baby rats, performing surgeries and removing brains, sectioning, and immunohistochemistry.. and so on

I was thinking this would be considered animal experience, but if it would be considered veterinary then that would strengthen my current standing...

I feel like posting here is just as well.. Making a thread would likely be redundant

I found out after i applied that PhD and animal=vet experience. there is a chart on VMCAS that tells you the specifics and it should qualify. like purplesaurus said tho maybe some schools have a diff opinion. but it really doesnt matter. the schools will look at it all and if they see you have something in the wrong section they will know where it belongs. im sure everyone wondered why i put all of my PhD mentored experience under animal, but the impt thing is they saw it was working under a PhD and with animals. You'll be fine either way 🙂
 
Love the warning Blackat. But I will argue that you will already be much wiser on Aug 24th, 1st day of orientation at Penn.

Oh yes good point i'm sure i will learn a lot on our 3 day orientation! but still, technically that doesnt count as a vet school class..for credit 😉


back to the original topic ... 🙂
 
I found out after i applied that PhD and animal=vet experience. there is a chart on VMCAS that tells you the specifics and it should qualify. like purplesaurus said tho maybe some schools have a diff opinion. but it really doesnt matter. the schools will look at it all and if they see you have something in the wrong section they will know where it belongs. im sure everyone wondered why i put all of my PhD mentored experience under animal, but the impt thing is they saw it was working under a PhD and with animals. You'll be fine either way 🙂
thanks, good point

Yeah, I actually found out that with AVC they have solved this problem quite easily by combining "Vet/Animal Experience" into a single entity on the application (worth a total of 10% of the app weight).
I'm sure vet experience is still valued proportionally more than plain animal exp, but there's no classifying done by the student
 
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