Getting screwed over on evaluations

[SpikesnSpookes]

I'm not sure how it is at your medical school, but our 3rd year evaluation forms at our school are complete nonsense. Our grade is calculated from a series of bubbles that the attending fills out on our behalf - 25 questions with 8 bubbles, low to high. Sometimes you will get an attending who is nice and will mark the highest bubble, while some aren't so nice (even though the loved your work ethic and how much knowledge you have) and they still won't select the higher bubbles. It is such a random **** show that it's gotten out of control, and my surgery score has turned out to be one of the lowest in my class even though I was praised to be one of the best students on the service. Seems like a bunch of random people get the high scores and that it's really based on luck and who you get evaluating you, and I was just wondering if this is a theme at other medical schools and how people have gotten around it come interview season?

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[Crayola227]

welcome to the clinical years

 

[Beezlebub]

who did you piss off

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...n-grading-is-so-subjective-what-to-do.782399/

 

[Anicetus]

I'm not sure how it is at your medical school, but our 3rd year evaluation forms at our school are complete nonsense. Our grade is calculated from a series of bubbles that the attending fills out on our behalf - 25 questions with 8 bubbles, low to high. Sometimes you will get an attending who is nice and will mark the highest bubble, while some aren't so nice (even though the loved your work ethic and how much knowledge you have) and they still won't select the higher bubbles. It is such a random **** show that it's gotten out of control, and my surgery score has turned out to be one of the lowest in my class even though I was praised to be one of the best students on the service. Seems like a bunch of random people get the high scores and that it's really based on luck and who you get evaluating you, and I was just wondering if this is a theme at other medical schools and how people have gotten around it come interview season?

Whoever told you life is fair lied to you.

 

[Psai]

Yeah but how would you feel if someone told you you sucked to your face
Most people don't want to do that, except ob

 

[Light at end of tunnel]

Life isn't fair, but that's like saying you should expect to get cancer because life isn't fair. DUH!

Evaluatoins do have to be accurate and honest, though.

 

[Bobcat18]

I feel you on this one. Our non 'core' rotations are completely dependent on the preceptor evaluation and we are only able to get pass or honors on these rotations. I've had multiple preceptors that said to my face that I did a great job on the rotation but they just don't give honors and never will- thus I end up getting a pass. It sucks that our grades are so dependent on which preceptor we get- but I guess there is nothing we can do but move on and focus on the next rotation...

 

[SpikesnSpookes]

who did you piss off

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...n-grading-is-so-subjective-what-to-do.782399/

This is not really helpful.

I was told by multiple PA's and surgeons that I worked with on during that service that I was literally the most helpful and best student. They were praising me to other students as well after I left - not trying to brag, but I feel like I deserved a near perfect evaluation but got stuck with a strict grader who also graded another colleague of mine terribly. In her point of view, she was probably giving me a good grade but compared to students on other services who got higher grades from more lenient surgeons, it's not good at all. Since I want to do surgery, this grade kills me....thinking about appealing it tomorrow.

 

[Split Infinity]

This is not really helpful.

I was told by multiple PA's and surgeons that I worked with on during that service that I was literally the most helpful and best student. They were praising me to other students as well after I left - not trying to brag, but I feel like I deserved a near perfect evaluation but got stuck with a strict grader who also graded another colleague of mine terribly. In her point of view, she was probably giving me a good grade but compared to students on other services who got higher grades from more lenient surgeons, it's not good at all. Since I want to do surgery, this grade kills me....thinking about appealing it tomorrow.

If you feel you deserved a higher grade, go ahead and appeal it. Do they not give comments alongside the "objective" bubbles? That is, if you had really strongly positive comments but no Honors, that's a discrepancy you could point out.

 

[Beezlebub]

This is not really helpful.

I was told by multiple PA's and surgeons that I worked with on during that service that I was literally the most helpful and best student. They were praising me to other students as well after I left - not trying to brag, but I feel like I deserved a near perfect evaluation but got stuck with a strict grader who also graded another colleague of mine terribly. In her point of view, she was probably giving me a good grade but compared to students on other services who got higher grades from more lenient surgeons, it's not good at all. Since I want to do surgery, this grade kills me....thinking about appealing it tomorrow.

How often did you work with your evaluator? If your situation is accurate, I think this system is quite flawed and there should be multiple evaluators and checkpoints to assure an accurate assessment of students. All the best brah.

 

[SunsFun]

If you feel you deserved a higher grade, go ahead and appeal it. Do they not give comments alongside the "objective" bubbles? That is, if you had really strongly positive comments but no Honors, that's a discrepancy you could point out.

They don't care. Nobody will bother to change your grade but you may not get that 4th year elective if the coordinator finds your grade appeal a hustle.

OP, big component of 3rd year grade is luck. There is no denying that some people will just mark all 5/10s to vast majority of people they evaluate. I did that since M1 for all my classmates, lecturers, etc as long as person I worked with was nice to others and hardworking. Some people just give 3s/5s to everyone since they read the evaluation criteria literally and assume you can't really achieve perfect evals until you function on attending level.

Usually a well designed clerkship would have multiple evaluations from multiple people, thus minimizing the impact of one evaluator and getting the true performance. Those that rely on only a hand full of evals will tend to be much more subjective. This is pure math.

One thing you can try to do is befriend everyone in the department, including the coordinators. Having people like you who handle your grades may, unfortunately, have notable impact on your eventual final grade.


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[LUCPM]

This is not really helpful.

I was told by multiple PA's and surgeons that I worked with on during that service that I was literally the most helpful and best student. They were praising me to other students as well after I left - not trying to brag, but I feel like I deserved a near perfect evaluation but got stuck with a strict grader who also graded another colleague of mine terribly. In her point of view, she was probably giving me a good grade but compared to students on other services who got higher grades from more lenient surgeons, it's not good at all. Since I want to do surgery, this grade kills me....thinking about appealing it tomorrow.

Sorry, I was going to shut up but had to give my .02 cents. If you keep up with this kind of expectation, you will be in for a rude awakening during the rest of your training and career. No one is perfect and not everyone will think you are perfect even if you are.

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[Split Infinity]

They don't care. Nobody will bother to change your grade but you may not get that 4th year elective if the coordinator finds your grade appeal a hustle.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. I know people who have had successful grade appeals, and even people who received the wrong grade by accident. Don't be afraid to advocate for yourself in a respectful manner.

 

[FlameBroiledDoc]

If it's any consolation, residencies and medical schools are s-l-o-w-l-y moving over to Competencies-Based Curricula, so this kind of subjective nonsense is done away with once and for all.

 

[Beezlebub]

If it's any consolation, residencies and medical schools are s-l-o-w-l-y moving over to Competencies-Based Curricula, so this kind of subjective nonsense is done away with once and for all.

Thank goodness. We put our entire future on the line based on a letter. What a crappy system.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

OP the above people are correct about life not being fair, but if you are going to be this crushed when a surgeon gives what you think is a bad evaluation, you are going to have a LONG road in surgery. In my experience, surgery tends to go out of its way to attempt to crush people.

 

[Crayola227]

Yeah but how would you feel if someone told you you sucked to your face
Most people don't want to do that, except ob

omg this is so true, why is this so true about ob?

peds are the worst for not telling you to your face

 

[SpikesnSpookes]

Haha, oh geez. As an aspiring surgeon, my performance in my surgery clerkship is highly important to me as an applicant to the most competitive integrated programs. Once I'm in, I wont give a shi*. Believe me, I wish I didnt have to strive for perfection but in this situation I feel its very important...

 

[Brorthopedic]

Haha, oh geez. As an aspiring surgeon, my performance in my surgery clerkship is highly important to me as an applicant to the most competitive integrated programs. Once I'm in, I wont give a shi*. Believe me, I wish I didnt have to strive for perfection but in this situation I feel its very important...

You probably said the same thing when you were applying to med school. Things don't change. Once you become a resident, you'll have new hoops to jump through and you'll gladly do it.

 

[FlameBroiledDoc]

To give a little perspective as someone who's been through it, your problem as a med student or a resident is not going to be people criticizing you to your face. If that happens, you should be thankful, because at least you'll have something to go on before your final evaluation. Far more common is nobody telling you there's a problem, and you end up blindsided come evaluation time. Hospitals and other health care settings are rife with gossip and mistrust and passive-aggressiveness and outright cowardice - always have been, always will be.

Want a better evaluation? Work your rear end off. Learn everything you can about the patients assigned to you, and be aggressive in seeking opportunities without being pushy or rude. Get to know the nurses by name, and ask for their thoughts and concerns about your patients.

You might not get honors evaluations every time - as noted above, some docs just don't do it - but it's very unlikely you'll be surprised in a bad way.

 

[SpikesnSpookes]

You probably said the same thing when you were applying to med school. Things don't change. Once you become a resident, you'll have new hoops to jump through and you'll gladly do it.

You are right, I didn't expect this coming into med school obviously. But I feel like once I am in a residency and have my career path decided, I won't be as hurt by getting a poor grade.

The comments on my evaluation were all excellent, but my grade is calculated from a series of many bubbles that attendings have to select. It's not an issue of being blind-sided or having an evaluator not tell me things to my face - I just got a grader who did not give me a perfect grade by choosing the top bubbles like a lot of surgeons at our general surgery institution do for other students. I just got unlucky.

 

[HungryHydrogen]

When applying to medical school, I'm sure we all said at one point "once I'm in, I won't have to worry so much about my future anymore". As clerks, we look to residency as the new period of decreased uncertainty and career guarantee. But as residents, we'll be exposed to the even more subjective nature of job and fellowship selection. It only gets less objective along the way...personally, I see the solution as to work on how we cope with uncertainty and to try our absolute best at every step.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yeah but how would you feel if someone told you you sucked to your face
Most people don't want to do that, except ob

I'd rather be told up front and sooner to my face so I can improve, rather than be slipped a paper telling me I suck later and not being able to do anything about it. Of course, from the attending's standpoint they want to avoid a confrontation, since its no skin of their back if you just 'pass.'

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Appeal the grade, you have nothing to lose.

 

[bannie22]

welcome to life

 

[Anicetus]

Life isn't fair, but that's like saying you should expect to get cancer because life isn't fair. DUH!

Evaluatoins do have to be accurate and honest, though.

No. It's like saying just cuz you worked your darn hardest and received good appraisal doesn't mean you should receive better evals.

Subjectivity is the hardest thing for us students to accept probably because it's what most of what real life is like. Life is a lottery that is unfair. You could be born to be baron trump or you could be born to an HIV positive mother who just got Ebola before you were born.

That's extreme, but nothing should be deserved in life as much as we try to make things as fair and equal as possible.