GI bill extend through first semester?

[82Scout]

I'm currently an MD applicant and I utilized most of my GI bill during undergrad and prerequisites. I have the 100% AD post 9/11 GI bill and I paid the $600 kicker while in service. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the protocol for GI bills that will be exhausted mid semester at a medical program. Will the VA pay through that semester and would the school still honor the yellow ribbon agreement?

Thanks in advance!

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[forumname1]

I don't know precisely but because the VA counts down to the day, they most likely will prorate not only your month stipend by also the tuition.

But the best information will be to call them and ask.

Edit: Prorate probably isn't the best word. They will cut the tuition down to the day the benefits end as well as the stipend.

 

[BC_89]

I'm currently an MD applicant and I utilized most of my GI bill during undergrad and prerequisites. I have the 100% AD post 9/11 GI bill and I paid the $600 kicker while in service. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the protocol for GI bills that will be exhausted mid semester at a medical program. Will the VA pay through that semester and would the school still honor the yellow ribbon agreement?

Thanks in advance!

I presume the $600 kicker was under the Montgomery GI Bill and not the Post 9-11. In which case, that kicker bonus does not transfer over (nor refunded) when using the Post 9-11.

If you used all of your Montgomery GI Bill benefits (36 months) then used an additional 12 months of Post 9-11 then your done. The VA won’t pay out to the end of the semester. If however you have only used 36 months of educational benefits (in this case: Post 9-11), then the VA will pay you out to the end of the semester no questions asked.

The VA goes by a 36 month, 36 month-semester extension, and 48 month rule (Montgomery + Post 9-11). What this means is if you started and finishing your benefits in the middle of a semester under the 36 month rule, then the VA will pay-out your benefits to the end of that term. This is because in total, you’re entitled to a max of 48 months of education entitlements. Since you’ll only need 40 months to finish a term (~4 additional months), your well within the limit. Once the term is over, the benefits stop. The 48 month rule is if you used 36 months from Montgomery AND received an extension of 12 months on post 9-11. But remember, if your 48th month is in the middle of a semester that’s it. You cannot break the 48 month rule.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

 

[82Scout]

I presume the $600 kicker was under the Montgomery GI Bill and not the Post 9-11. In which case, that kicker bonus does not transfer over (nor refunded) when using the Post 9-11.

If you used all of your Montgomery GI Bill benefits (36 months) then used an additional 12 months of Post 9-11 then your done. The VA won’t pay out to the end of the semester. If however you have only used 36 months of educational benefits (in this case: Post 9-11), then the VA will pay you out to the end of the semester no questions asked.

The VA goes by a 36 month, 36 month-semester extension, and 48 month rule (Montgomery + Post 9-11). What this means is if you started and finishing your benefits in the middle of a semester under the 36 month rule, then the VA will pay-out your benefits to the end of that term. This is because in total, you’re entitled to a max of 48 months of education entitlements. Since you’ll only need 40 months to finish a term (~4 additional months), your well within the limit. Once the term is over, the benefits stop. The 48 month rule is if you used 36 months from Montgomery AND received an extension of 12 months on post 9-11. But remember, if your 48th month is in the middle of a semester that’s it. You cannot break the 48 month rule.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Perfect thanks for the info. I used 34 months of post 9/11 and have 2 months left. Should be enough to cover the first semester of medical school then!

 

[BC_89]

Perfect thanks for the info. I used 34 months of post 9/11 and have 2 months left. Should be enough to cover the first semester of medical school then!

Yes. So long as you have 1 day into another semester, the VA will extend the coverage to the end of that term. As long as the VA covers their portion of payments, then your program will still deliver on their portion of payments through your Yellow Ribbon Program.

Congrats and good luck in medical school

 

[MusicDOc124]

Also, regardless of time left, tuition for the semester will be paid fully. Even if you run out on day 2. This is even if you used 48 months. You won’t continue getting BAH at that point if that much time was used, but tuition would be paid, not prorated.

 

[sundevilnontrad]

Just an aside, for those unaware, and for OP, changes to look into.

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.benefits.va.gov

More Benefits for Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) Programs
VA will provide up to nine months of additional Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to certain eligible individuals who:

• have or will soon exhaust entitlement of Post-9/11 GI Bill program.
• apply for assistance, and
• are enrolled in a program of education leading to a post-secondary degree that, in accordance with the guidelines of the applicable regional or national accrediting agency, requires more than the standard 128 semester (or 192 quarter) credit hours for completion in a standard, undergraduate college degree in biological or biomedical science; physical science; science technologies or technicians; computer and information science and support services; mathematics or statistics; engineering; engineering technologies or an engineering-related field; a health profession or related program; a medical residency program; an agriculture science program or natural resources science program; or other subjects and fields identified by VA as meeting national needs.
• has completed at least 60 standard semester (or 90 quarter) credit hours in a field listed above, or has earned a post-secondary degree in one of these fields and is enrolled in a program of education leading to a teaching certification.

Priority would be given to individuals who are entitled to 100 percent of Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits and to those that require the most credit hours.
VA can pay each eligible individual the benefits for up to nine additional months, but the total may not exceed $30,000. VA will not be authorized to issue any Yellow Ribbon payments.
These additional benefits cannot be transferred to dependents.
This expansion becomes effective on August 1, 2019.

 

[KaBoom'd]

Just an aside, for those unaware, and for OP, changes to look into.

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.benefits.va.gov

More Benefits for Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) Programs
VA will provide up to nine months of additional Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to certain eligible individuals who:

• have or will soon exhaust entitlement of Post-9/11 GI Bill program.
• apply for assistance, and
• are enrolled in a program of education leading to a post-secondary degree that, in accordance with the guidelines of the applicable regional or national accrediting agency, requires more than the standard 128 semester (or 192 quarter) credit hours for completion in a standard, undergraduate college degree in biological or biomedical science; physical science; science technologies or technicians; computer and information science and support services; mathematics or statistics; engineering; engineering technologies or an engineering-related field; a health profession or related program; a medical residency program; an agriculture science program or natural resources science program; or other subjects and fields identified by VA as meeting national needs.
• has completed at least 60 standard semester (or 90 quarter) credit hours in a field listed above, or has earned a post-secondary degree in one of these fields and is enrolled in a program of education leading to a teaching certification.

Priority would be given to individuals who are entitled to 100 percent of Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits and to those that require the most credit hours.
VA can pay each eligible individual the benefits for up to nine additional months, but the total may not exceed $30,000. VA will not be authorized to issue any Yellow Ribbon payments.
These additional benefits cannot be transferred to dependents.
This expansion becomes effective on August 1, 2019.

I posted this in the forever GI bill thread but it looks like we're out of luck



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[MusicDOc124]

So this will cover someone during undergrad (ie premed) and residency, but not the in-between (Med school itself)?

 

[KaBoom'd]

My guess is "medical residency" is poorly phrased and anyone applying beyond an undergraduate degree will not be included. I was also rejected because I won't exhaust my GI bill until August 2020. I'll re-apply late spring/early summer and try to squeak through but I'm not hopeful at this point. Has anyone else recently applied?


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[MusicDOc124]

I looked into it before, and residency is included though somehow. They actually specify in the document things like "internal medicine, family medicine, psychiatry, surgery, etc."

 

[sundevilnontrad]

I looked into it before, and residency is included though somehow. They actually specify in the document things like "internal medicine, family medicine, psychiatry, surgery, etc."

So bottom line is no extension when you are in medical school, after you exhaust benefits?

 

[MusicDOc124]

Even with STEM, there is an overall cap which i believe is the same 48 month cap that one gets with Voc rehab - or really any combo with the exception of an extension with an SEH under Voc rehab. @BC_89 any clarification on this?

 

[BC_89]

So bottom line is no extension when you are in medical school, after you exhaust benefits?

According to what has been quoted a few times on here from the VA portal site Under STEM programs:

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.benefits.va.gov

You may be eligible with the extension provided that you originally qualified for 100% of GI Bill from day 1 (not 80% - 10% benefits). Yes, medical school should be included as it is under their own context principle documentation but at the expense and interpretation of the VA on who get's a priority. As for @KaBoom'd (which I appreciate you sharing the VA letter) I would try again when you're well within 180 days of running out of your GI Bill. As for the secondary reasoning of your graduate degree choice, they are wrong and I would refute that if that was the only point they stated. However, they can always say that you did not make the cutoff based on a panel decision of what veteran deserves / qualifies for education payments.

This next portion is my own opinion and may not be true for some but it is worth knowing with this new entitlement: VA is really about saving the money and so if it comes down to someone in medical school verses another wanting to get a teaching certificate as explicitly listed for coverage under the STEM entitlement, who are they going to pick? Likewise for those in residency or other healthcare professions beyond that of a bachelors. This is why I do not believe we will see of much people qualifying for this extension in medical school unless the pool of applicants during your time is low (ie apply between admissions and semesters when most applicants are focused in their current schooling).

Even with STEM, there is an overall cap which i believe is the same 48 month cap that one gets with Voc rehab - or really any combo with the exception of an extension with an SEH under Voc rehab. @BC_89 any clarification on this?

You're Correct. Unless it has been verified by your certifying school official that you are currently under a Severe Employment Handicap quotient, you are still under the same Educational Cap as any other program.

 

[82Scout]

I called the VA, they said the STEM extension only applies to someone enrolled in an undergraduate degree or teaching credential and meets the other criteria. They confirmed this will not work for medical school

 

[BC_89]

I called the VA, they said the STEM extension only applies to someone enrolled in an undergraduate degree or teaching credential and meets the other criteria. They confirmed this will not work for medical school

That's interesting:

Now the question is why would they even mention medical residency and other health professions in their outline? Then the translation would be delivered as one person going back to a teaching or undergrad degree after pursuing a medical residency. I don't believe any of us have heard of someone going to a medical residency just to go backwards to be a teacher.

My feeling tells me that a lot of the VA reps are not fully sure of what this entails either. I think I'll give them a call this week as well and see how this is justified (being a new program and all).

 

[KaBoom'd]

@BC_89 I'll be trying again in the spring following along in the interim to see what other people get back over the next 6 months. FWIW I have the full post 9/11 GI bill and was denied voc rehab due to 10% disability rating.

 

[BC_89]

I called the VA, they said the STEM extension only applies to someone enrolled in an undergraduate degree or teaching credential and meets the other criteria. They confirmed this will not work for medical school

This is what I was afraid would happen with a new scholarship tied to veterans running out of the GI Bill within 180 days:

I also called the VA Education & Benefits Center and sure enough I was told the "opposite" that medical students are covered if they meet the GI Bill Depletion Criteria. That said, I believe 100% that they told you the opposite as well (which is what I was afraid would happen to me).

It sounds like to me at face value, medical students are covered assuming there is a "cap" on the scholarship (first come first serve mentality). I'm hoping someone uses this scholarship while in a healthcare profession within the year to give us an update of how it worked in their favor.

As per usual (my opinion) when a VA benefit change or creation takes place, confusion starts the first 6 months before the edges get scraped off. We are only on week 2 of this brand new program....

 

[82Scout]

This is what I was afraid would happen with a new scholarship tied to veterans running out of the GI Bill within 180 days:

I also called the VA Education & Benefits Center and sure enough I was told the "opposite" that medical students are covered if they meet the GI Bill Depletion Criteria. That said, I believe 100% that they told you the opposite as well (which is what I was afraid would happen to me).

It sounds like to me at face value, medical students are covered assuming there is a "cap" on the scholarship (first come first serve mentality). I'm hoping someone uses this scholarship while in a healthcare profession within the year to give us an update of how it worked in their favor.

As per usual (my opinion) when a VA benefit change or creation takes place, confusion starts the first 6 months before the edges get scraped off. We are only on week 2 of this brand new program....

Interesting thanks for the update. I will have to follow up and submit an application once I get my GI bill going at med school in 2020. On a side note, a good friend I was in the service with just started his phD in biochemistry and he submitted his claim for this program a month ago. I would assume he will be in the same category as us and will also update when they get back to him.

 

[sheezy]

I'll be using the MGIB or post 9/11 for the residency (intern year at NMCSD provided eligibility, HPSP paid off w/four operational years), so hopefully the extension will apply in the case of anything over the 36 months (i.e. 4 year programs, fellowships, etc).

I'd be excited to hear if anyone has been able to do this already if they were near their last year of using it.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I'll be using the MGIB or post 9/11 for the residency (intern year at NMCSD provided eligibility, HPSP paid off w/four operational years), so hopefully the extension will apply in the case of anything over the 36 months (i.e. 4 year programs, fellowships, etc).

I'd be excited to hear if anyone has been able to do this already if they were near their last year of using it.

You might be among the first as it's not a very old program, not many people know that it can be applied to residency/fellowship as OJT for the BAH/etc, and enough people have used voc rehab which already went beyond the 36 months of GI Bill.

Let us all know how the process goes, and if it works out for you!