Giving notice at work

[devyn]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Everyone here always seems to have such good advice I figured I would ask you all!

I was accepted to UCD (Dublin) for the Fall and found out in May! I am beyond excited and can't wait to get to Ireland. I have been waiting to get govt loan approval before making the big announcement to most of my friends just in case for some reason I did not get the funds - thank god I did! I have a few other loose ends to tie up and a lot to do - I feel like my head might explode.

On to my question. I work at a specialty veterinary hospital as a technician and started this job in February. I took the job as it allowed me to be able to take pre-reqs for vet school as I work Fri - Mon 10 hour days plus it is a great place to work as I see a variety of cases working in critical care. I plan on working through July probably to the 25th, 30th at the latest. I want to take August off as I plan on leaving for Ireland the week of August 15th as I need to get there to find a place to rent with my dogs.

So when should I give notice. The vet practice has no idea that I applied for vet school at UCD as I really was not sure I had any chance of getting in, so I did not tell them. They knew that I had plans of going to vet school in the future, but that I still had pre-reqs to take. I do not want to burn any bridges, so my instinct would be to tell them sooner rather than later as I may want to work for them in the future should I decide to move back to US after vet school - you never know. It would be an amazing clinic to work at. But my parents and a few other people have told me that I should only give 2 weeks notice as if I give any more than that they might just decide to hire someone else in my place since I have only been there since Feb and then I would be out of funds for July that I need.

So what do you all think? 🙂

 

[Minnerbelle]

The vet practice has no idea that I applied for vet school at UCD as I really was not sure I had any chance of getting in, so I did not tell them. They knew that I had plans of going to vet school in the future, but that I still had pre-reqs to take. I do not want to burn any bridges, so my instinct would be to tell them sooner rather than later as I may want to work for them in the future should I decide to move back to US after vet school - you never know.

I don't want to be harsh or anything, but you say that you don't want to burn any bridges... but I kind of feel like you already did by not telling them... I understand that you didn't think you had any chance of getting in, but you could have told them just that! You knew when you applied to your job that you applied to vet school. Personally, I don't think that's a good way to start a cordial collegiate relationship that you want to nurture one day. Why would someone want to hire you later when you've already been a flake?

Did they have to train you? Or were you already a highly skilled technician? Did they ask you about applying to vet school when they interviewed you? Do you think your answers might have been a little deceptive but not wrong (perhaps answered "someday" to the question "are you looking to become a veterinarian?") Or did they not ask at all, and assume based on your coursework that you still had time to go?

There's a difference between what's legal and what's a nice thing to do. If you want any chance of ever working at this clinic again, I would personally talk to them ASAP and apologize for your lapse in judgment for not mentioning it as you really really didn't think it would have mattered. Be grateful for the opportunity they gave you, and apologize again for their inconvenience. That will give them a month to start looking for and interviewing someone. But you would risk losing your job early (esp if you work in an at-will state) depending on how they take the situation. Or you can look forward to working those two weeks of shame... (or even worse, use up your vacation time so you don't have to come in for a lot of it)

It's up to you. Networking is important in vet med since it's such a small profession, but I can kind of understand the whole self-preservation thing too.

 

[sunnyshine]

I would probably tell your job that you have been accepted and give them as much time as possible to find a suitable replacement. If you just spring it on them at the end they may feel as though you screwed them over and, as you said earlier, you don't want to burn any bridges. Additionaly, if this practice would just drop you like a hot potato as soon as they found out that you got accepted then maybe they aren't the best people to be working for. Also, I don't think they are legally allowed to fire you becuase you are soon going to be leaving. They may lay you off, but at that point you can file for unemployment. Someone with more managerial/business experience may feel free to correct my above statement, but I am pretty sure that is how it works.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Also, I don't think they are legally allowed to fire you becuase you are soon going to be leaving. They may lay you off, but at that point you can file for unemployment.

As far as I know, it depends on the state you work in. If it's in an at-will state, they can fire you without even giving you a reason if they want to (unless you can prove that there was foul play, in which case you can sue). Even if not, the employer can try and fire you for being deceptive, and it's up to you to contest that or sue or whatever... but I don't think it'll be a pretty job to work for in the aftermath. You can always file for unemployment whether you deserve it or not. It's up to the unemployment office people or whatever they're called to see if you qualify. It's also up to the employer to decide if they want to contest the file for unemployment or not.

These are worst-case scenarios by the way (and some of them are outragiously so), so don't assume that this is going to happen. But you never know...

And I have been wrong before, but I've looked into a lot of labor law type of things in the past so I think it's mostly correct.

 

[sunnyshine]

As far as I know, it depends on the state you work in. If it's in an at-will state, they can fire you without even giving you a reason if they want to.

Wow. I can't believe someone could fire you know and not even let you know why. I guess proper manners have no place in the world of business.

 

[devyn]

You knew when you applied to your job that you applied to vet school. Personally, I don't think that's a good way to start a cordial collegiate relationship that you want to nurture one day. Why would someone want to hire you later when you've already been a flake?

Actually when I applied to my job I had not applied to vet school as I applied to my job last summer and interviewed in August. At the time they did not have anything that fit for me. I checked back in with them in January and they had a tech position open with the perfect schedule for me to be able to take pre-reqs. At that time I was in the process of applying for UCD. I jumped at the tech job at the clinic as I needed to get back in the vet field to get more recent vet experience for vet school applications and I also needed to go back to school to take pre-reqs. My job at the time was not conducive to either. Perhaps I should have told them that I was applying to UCD, but I thought that they might not hire me then and I really had no idea what my chances were of getting in. My main focus was getting on the right path for getting into vet school in the future and taking pre-reqs, so I took the job. I planned on staying at the job for 1 1/2-2 years to take all the pre-reqs for vet school.

Did they have to train you? Or were you already a highly skilled technician? Did they ask you about applying to vet school when they interviewed you? Do you think your answers might have been a little deceptive but not wrong (perhaps answered "someday" to the question "are you looking to become a veterinarian?") Or did they not ask at all, and assume based on your coursework that you still had time to go?

No they did not train me as I already had experience as a technician, so I was set to hit the ground running. At the time that I interviewed (August) I let them know of my intentions to go to veterinary school and that I was in the process of taking going back to school to take pre-reqs for veterinary school. They were well aware of my intentions and why I wanted the job at their clinic. In fact, many of their technicians go on to vet school - 2 techs have already left earlier this spring headed to vet school this fall. Back in August I had no idea I would be applying to UCD's program. I am a non-trad applicant who has a BA and although I have a few science pre-reqs done I still have quite a few left to go to apply to any 4 year programs. I decided after tons of research to apply to UCD's 5 year program as I had all of the pre-reqs for it and was hoping it might be a way for me to start on my vet school degree sooner.

Sorry for the drawn out explanation, but maybe that will help you understand a little where my head was at. I can understand where you are coming from and perhaps I should have said something sooner, but my parents have made me so paranoid when it comes to workplace stuff like that that I was worried that they might let me go within my first 90 days on the job and I needed the job in order to survive. California is an at-will state, so they can let you go at any time. I definitely have never been seen as flaky and I stayed at my previous job for 3 years, so I don't tend to jack people around - or at least that is never my intention. It would be nice to know how they will react.

 

[LetItSnow]

Wow. I can't believe someone could fire you know and not even let you know why. I guess proper manners have no place in the world of business.

Believe it or not, "at will" employment is more common than not; in most states non-bargained (i.e. not unionized) employees can be terminated without cause at the discretion of the employer. (Most companies, though, will either offer you separation pay or try to have thorough HR documentation about why they're terminating. It just covers their butts.)

You are right, proper manners don't have much place in business anymore. I could tell you horror stories about the way my company has gone about layoffs for the last decade. I understand reducing your staff, but you can do it with some compassion. One year my company's largest round of layoffs came two weeks after Thanksgiving. "Hey, hope you had a great Thanksgiving, have a nice Christmas trying to find a job at the worst possible time of year! Suckerz!"

For about six months another year they laid people off every Friday. You'd come to work and, if there was a blue folder on your desk, you knew that they hit your spot on the org chart with their dart. I've still not figured out how I survived that year.

They quit doing the blue folders when some fool decided it'd be funny to start randomly throwing blue folders on desks Friday mornings.

That period got so bad you'd be stunned at how many people started getting 'sick' on Fridays just because they couldn't handle the stress of coming in. I've never seen management utterly demolish morale and reduce productivity so effectively.

Anyway.... businesses can be run well, or they can be run brutally. It's just a cold hard bummer.

Woah. Sorry. I just exploded all over SDN a little bit. My apologies... brought back some bad memories.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Sorry for the drawn out explanation, but maybe that will help you understand a little where my head was at. I can understand where you are coming from and perhaps I should have said something sooner, but my parents have made me so paranoid when it comes to workplace stuff like that that I was worried that they might let me go within my first 90 days on the job and I needed the job in order to survive. California is an at-will state, so they can let you go at any time. I definitely have never been seen as flaky and I stayed at my previous job for 3 years, so I don't tend to jack people around - or at least that is never my intention. It would be nice to know how they will react.

no worries, I was just giving you the worst-case scenario based on the info you gave (and thus the questions in the middle). There are a lot of people who come here and post some delusional ideas so I had no idea where you fit. it seems like you had genuine intentions, and it looks like you gave the clinic some valued service, which is different from someone who went in with the intention of getting trained and then abandoned ship before they could pay back the clinic's investments. you know your boss and those you work with best. you can probably predict better than anyone else how everyone will respond. who knows, maybe they'll congratulate you and be happy for you, and thankful that you let them know in advance. is there someone at the workplace that you can trust fully to keep their confidence for now, and have them weigh in? just be careful who you talk to, because some people who are loyal to the clinic might tip your boss off... which could be disastrous for you.

do you have any other jobs that you might be able to acquire in the short term just in case (i know i know, stupid question in a bad economy)? if there is a big, well funded shelter near you, it might be worth contacting their vet dept to see if they need temporary help. summer can be a very hectic time with high worker turnover. esp if you're a skilled technician who doesn't need much training at all, they might jump at the opportunity? or even something as crappy as nannying/childcare for a month... some of those pay really well (though you wouldn't get benefits, but temporary health insurance is really cheap). i know it doesn't sound appealing, but it might give you a peace of mind just so you can get the courage to let your employer know. Chances are, they'll be happy to keep you as long as they can esp if the practice is busy now.

sorry... not much help.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Anyway.... businesses can be run well, or they can be run brutally. It's just a cold hard bummer.

Yeah, true that. (Your ex-workplace sounds a lot like my bf's workplace, btw).

But at the same time, employees can also screw the owners big time especially in small businesses like a 1-2 doctor vet hospital, so I guess it goes both ways.

 

[Dye It Purple]

So when should I give notice. The vet practice has no idea that I applied for vet school at UCD as I really was not sure I had any chance of getting in, so I did not tell them. They knew that I had plans of going to vet school in the future, but that I still had pre-reqs to take. I do not want to burn any bridges, so my instinct would be to tell them sooner rather than later as I may want to work for them in the future should I decide to move back to US after vet school - you never know. It would be an amazing clinic to work at. But my parents and a few other people have told me that I should only give 2 weeks notice as if I give any more than that they might just decide to hire someone else in my place since I have only been there since Feb and then I would be out of funds for July that I need.

So what do you all think? 🙂

Hey Devyn! I can relate to your situation as I picked up a new job at the animal shelter (I'm an RVT, btw) in November of last year following vet school application submissions and this created similar complications for me (though the parallel is not perfect, I admit). As soon as found out I was accepted to the first vet school I got into, I let my employer know straight away, as I too hadn't really let them in on what I was up to. Just like you I am a dedicated and reliable California worker who always wants to maintain good ties with former employers, so naturally coming to them with this information gave me pause. Nonetheless, upon learning of this news they congratulated me, gave me a hug, and wished me well in my studies. As soon as I decided when I wanted my last work day to be, I let them know again. I gave them about 5 weeks advanced notice. I ran the risk of being fired by having done this, but they actually very much appreciated it. It gave them more time to work their way through the hiring process and find a better candidate than they might have otherwise under a tight two week crunch. Now, I can't assure you you'll get the same results, but my advice would be to let to them know what's going on now. They may respect you all the more for it. I think it's unlikely you'll be fired and you may even get to stick around long enough to help train your replacement before you go. On the other hand, it's your livelihood and if you would be in very bad shape having to leave sooner than later, maybe it's best to wait. In one of the worst economic climates in American history, self-preservation is a priority. I know you don't want to burn any bridges, but there will be many more doors open for you in five years time when you re-enter practice as a vet. How much of a grudge can they hold for all those years anyway? I dunno. That's my two cents. Best of luck!

 

[StormWater]

Devyn-
I've hired quite a number of people over the years and maintained a staff of 4-7 scientists and engineers. I would really want to know as soon as possible so that I could start trying to find a qualified replacement.

If this is the type of place you may want to come back to during summers or once you graduate, they're not going to fire you for giving notice. On the unlikely chance that they do fire you, best to know now that you can't count on them in the future.

The longer you take to tell them, the less trustworthy you're going to appear to them.

 

[Dsmoody23]

2 weeks notice is the standard for quitting any job. Unless you lied about how long you'd be staying or accepted costly training without making your intentions clear, you have absolutely nothing to feel bad about if you stick to that standard.

But, it sounds like you're pretty close to the ethics line on disclosing your plans.

Giving longer notice than required almost always hurts the employee, in my experience. Either they'll get someone else to fill the hours you're vacating, while you lose them, or just passively ramp down your work time in anticipation of your departure. Either way, they know you've already started to move on, and who can blame them for doing the same?

 

[sunnyshine]

Believe it or not, "at will" employment is more common than not; in most states non-bargained (i.e. not unionized) employees can be terminated without cause at the discretion of the employer. (Most companies, though, will either offer you separation pay or try to have thorough HR documentation about why they're terminating. It just covers their butts.)

You are right, proper manners don't have much place in business anymore. I could tell you horror stories about the way my company has gone about layoffs for the last decade. I understand reducing your staff, but you can do it with some compassion. One year my company's largest round of layoffs came two weeks after Thanksgiving. "Hey, hope you had a great Thanksgiving, have a nice Christmas trying to find a job at the worst possible time of year! Suckerz!"

For about six months another year they laid people off every Friday. You'd come to work and, if there was a blue folder on your desk, you knew that they hit your spot on the org chart with their dart. I've still not figured out how I survived that year.

They quit doing the blue folders when some fool decided it'd be funny to start randomly throwing blue folders on desks Friday mornings.

That period got so bad you'd be stunned at how many people started getting 'sick' on Fridays just because they couldn't handle the stress of coming in. I've never seen management utterly demolish morale and reduce productivity so effectively.

Anyway.... businesses can be run well, or they can be run brutally. It's just a cold hard bummer.

Woah. Sorry. I just exploded all over SDN a little bit. My apologies... brought back some bad memories.

I am really sorry to hear about the terrible situation that you went through. I find it deplorable that your company didn't seem to value their employees at all and pretty much made a game out of firing them (and at the worst possible time of the year no less).

 

[that redhead]

There are two ways to approach this. The first is to wait and give only two weeks of notice. This isn't a nice thing to do to the hospital because they'll need to find/hire/train a new person in a short period of time. I doubt they'd be appreciative of the scramble and they would not look favorably on your return. The second is to tell them the next time you're in and risk them phasing you out of hours/money as they train a replacement which is entirely fair but not necessarily how you want it to work out.

I think the right thing to do is to tell them right away and be apologetic about not telling them sooner and hope for the best.

 

[awaring1]

You could always stretch the truth a bit and tell them that you were just accepted off the wait-list and you thought you had no chance so that is why you didn't tell them earlier.

This is of course, not the most honest option.

 

[Samoa]

Most places in healthcare will treat you well if you're leaving to pursue their field's seminal degree, and will not end your employment early no matter how much notice you give.

It's a matter of professional courtesy toward a future colleague. (Also, your bad experience can significantly affect their recruiting ability, so it's also a matter of self-interest for them to allow you to stay as long as you need.)

 

[twelvetigers]

Aww, samoa's posting on our boards. 😍

 

[Samoa]

Aww, samoa's posting on our boards. 😍

Wolves need vets too 😀

 

[devyn]

Definitely a lot of good advice here. I am waiting to hear on one final loan and I should hopefully hear this week. Once that is done I will give notice to my job which will give them about a month warning and I will hope that they will keep me on through that time! Sadly I do not have another job to take on for only a month if they decide to let me go early.

fingers crossed it all works out! 🙂

 

[Robdude]

I gotta say, I feel like people bend over backwards for their employers in the vet-med field.

Read your employment contract and see what it says about termination. Wait. What's that? You don't *have* a contract? You were never offered a contract?

Your state might be different, but here in Colorado (and many other states) employment is considered 'at-will'. I work full-time, but they could fire me tomorrow for no reason at all. I don't have a contract. They don't have to give me notice. They don't have to pay severance. Nothing.

Over the years, I've seen lots and lots of employees jump through imaginary hoops to avoid offending people. My girlfriend killed herself trying to make her company happy while she was going to school; one day they pulled her aside and told her they had to make cut-backs and not to come in anymore. My current employer decided to do 'restructuring' and same story, Friday at 5pm some people were told not to come in on Monday (or ever).

My favorite (true) story is from when I was working at Allstate. There were rumors of layoffs and my Boss's Boss called a big meeting and told everyone in the division that it was absolutely not true. We all had nothing to worry about. The *VERY NEXT DAY* he got canned.

I've never heard of a company saying, 'Hey Rob - we're going to fire you this upcoming third Friday'. Maybe it happens....but I've never seen it.

I'm also going to Ireland, but I wanted to continue getting paid until I leave. I could have told my boss 12 months ago that I was probably leaving the state; but why? So they could find a replacement and let me go early? That may or may not have happened, but there isn't any benefit on my end. I'll keep working until the Friday I decide I've worked enough and send out a professionally worded e-mail saying that I won't be employed there anymore - in the exact same fashion as the e-mail that got sent out after a handful of my coworkers were let go a few months ago.

"Everyone, So-and-so is no longer working for $OUR_COMPANY. Please talk to $OTHER_GUY about any work related items So-and-so was responsible for"

Just my two cents.
Congrats on getting in!

 

[LetItSnow]

I've never heard of a company saying, 'Hey Rob - we're going to fire you this upcoming third Friday'. Maybe it happens....but I've never seen it.

I don't want to undercut your message, because in general .... I think yer right. Companies are run nowadays with the attitude that people are just another resource like paper, electricity, and phone lines. You add them when needed, cut them when you don't, and you don't give any more consideration to the human than the paper - just another type of "resource".

That said .... I've been in the telco industry for 15 years and while we did go through a period where people were let go with no warning, it was always with a severance package.

We're going through some more layoffs now (due to a merger), and virtually everyone I know who has been let go has been given an open-ended "you'll be let go between now and the end of the year. You can go at a time of your choosing between now and then, or you can wait for us to pick the date." Either way, they get severance (and our severance package is generous).

It's actually been a refreshingly compassionate way to do layoffs, if such a thing is possible. Sure beats the heck out of the old "gosh, I wonder who will be left on the island after this Friday" routine that we went through years ago (and thanks, Sunnyshine, but really it was worse for others - at least I survived!). 🙂

Anyway... it's been my experience that, at least in the telco industry, severance is more the rule than not, even though legally our employment is at-will. Typically, it all depends on the HR policies the company has in place; they do have an obligation to follow them, and any employee of any company ought to be able to look at the policies governing their employment. For many years now, there's been a guy that works near me who makes a habit of checking the severance policy every week just to make sure HR didn't slip a change in. 🙂

Certainly other industries could be better/worse!!

 

[Robdude]

I don't want to undercut your message, because in general .... I think yer right. Companies are run nowadays with the attitude that people are just another resource like paper, electricity, and phone lines. You add them when needed, cut them when you don't, and you don't give any more consideration to the human than the paper - just another type of "resource".

That said .... I've been in the telco industry for 15 years and while we did go through a period where people were let go with no warning, it was always with a severance package.

We're going through some more layoffs now (due to a merger), and virtually everyone I know who has been let go has been given an open-ended "you'll be let go between now and the end of the year. You can go at a time of your choosing between now and then, or you can wait for us to pick the date." Either way, they get severance (and our severance package is generous).

It's actually been a refreshingly compassionate way to do layoffs, if such a thing is possible. Sure beats the heck out of the old "gosh, I wonder who will be left on the island after this Friday" routine that we went through years ago (and thanks, Sunnyshine, but really it was worse for others - at least I survived!). 🙂

Anyway... it's been my experience that, at least in the telco industry, severance is more the rule than not, even though legally our employment is at-will. Typically, it all depends on the HR policies the company has in place; they do have an obligation to follow them, and any employee of any company ought to be able to look at the policies governing their employment. For many years now, there's been a guy that works near me who makes a habit of checking the severance policy every week just to make sure HR didn't slip a change in. 🙂

Certainly other industries could be better/worse!!

I appreciate the alternate perspective. Honestly, it's good to hear some of the positive experiences people have instead of just hearing the worst.

My GF's experience was with a small animal clinic; and truthfully, a lot of went on there was pretty shady. Now that I think about it, the Allstate guy who got canned, he was pretty high up on the Org chart so I bet he probably did get a severance package. Either they didn't give him any notice or he was a great actor.

 

[Dsmoody23]

Most un-certified tech or assistant jobs are basically glorified minimum wage positions. Unless you have an uncommon relationship with your employer, I would definitely suggest not making the mistake of overvaluing yourself. I've known dozens of people who assumed they were some variety of indispensable, or tight with the boss, and got canned with little or no notice.

It sounds harsh, but they could fire you tomorrow and have someone else working your job by the end of the week. And from a business standpoint, sometimes that's the best decision.

As a low income employee, especially trying to sack some money away before school, you owe them exactly as much as they owe you. Which is essentially nothing beyond the standard consideration of a 2 week notice.

 

[rubygirl]

obviously every job is different, but my experiences have been that being upfront about vet school is not a bad thing. perhaps if you were leaving for a different reason it would be different, but I have found that letting clinics know that i am applying and letting them know when something changes has been beneficial. in my current situation i didnt think i got in so i moved out west form the east coast to live and then was accepted. My past employer had asked that i just keep them up to date when i knew more. i told them i was moving west to work and they were sad to see me go and did hire a replacement before i left, but didn't cut my hours, the other girl had to be trained anyways, so why not train her while i was still around to help. In the vet world it seems courteous to inform about happenings with vet school, but that is jut my two cents

 

[sunnyshine]

I really think the decision of whether or not to inform a company of your quitting depends on the particular relationship that you have with the people, particularly the management, in that company. In my first post to devyn I suggested that he/she be honest with his/her employer about leaving mainly because that is what I did at my clinic. Yet, from reading the other posts in the thread, I can see that not everyone has been fortunate enough to find a place of employment as comfortable as I have. I let my practice know very early on that I had every intention of applying to veterinary school and that as such I may be quitting in the near future. They accepted my decision and were very supportive. The doctors I worked with even took special time to show me different things of interest, such as special surgical procedures, and gave me tons of advice for getting into vet school. My whole vet team has really been more of a family for me. Like any other practice we would get crunched in our profits for a time being, but rather than fire someone we would all just take cutbacks in our hours. I guess I kind of got a lucky break. Yet I am not dumd enough to think that this is the case at every place of employment, especially in today's economy. So I think the decision of whether or not to let a practice know about your intentions really depends on how much you trust that practice. If you trust the people you work with and are comfortable with taking the risk that you might get canned early becuase of your decision to go to vet school then tell the practice because it might get you an advantage at work, as it did for me by allowing me to get alot of advice and mentoring from the vets I worked with. Alternatively, if you don't trust your place of employment or are not willing to take the risk, then don't tell them. As Dsmoody23 said, you really don't owe them anything except 2 weeks notice and that's only if you want to be polite.