Help please or I’m giving up

[jmiam2]

I still think a post in WAMC thread would be very helpful for you @jmiam2. I’m curious about your vet experiences thus far (not animal, but vet) and what has drawn you to this field. Like others have said, you’ve got to be OK with GP work in theory because while the field of vet med as a whole is increasingly specialty-focused, GP is about the only true “fall back” there is.

My personal story includes not matching to my specialty of choice and putting in five years of GP work. I found it to be a lot more interesting and fulfilling than I had originally expected (and that was with a couple thousand SAGP clinic hours by the time of application) but I am infinitely happier now that I found my way back to my original intended specialty.

A love for animals is essential in this field, absolutely. But it is nowhere near enough to sustain yourself for the long haul, no matter what specialty you enter. You need to derive satisfaction from other aspects of your job, whether it’s forming special relationships with clients and patients, contributing through specific research, interacting with and educating the public, etc. Those of us in this profession face enormous hurdles when it comes to compassion fatigue, mental health and work-life balance; do not sign yourself up for this ride out of sheer stubbornness to succeed when you were told you could not because it will absolutely backfire in the end.

I have vet experience in shelter and GP, I have an interview at a SPCA hospital next week where the position is specifically designed for someone to be mentored by the new vet, the new vet starting there really wanted to mentor someone so it’s the perfect opportunity plus they will be training me to become a tech. I started late because I didn’t decide I wanted to go to vet school until junior year so I had to catch up on experience. My drive other than loving the zoo/aquatic animals is that I want to help species conservation, with the amount of damage that’s been done to this planet, I feel responsible to be part of the solution, that is a really big driving force for me is to help give back to wildlife because they were here before us and we have done so much harm and damage and I really feel passionate about it. I even want to eventually open up my own wildlife rehabilitation center and give pre-vet and vet students the opportunity to work with me and give them the experience they need to pursue their passions like the vets I work with now have given me. I have been given so many amazing opportunities and I want to make sure other students like me get the same opportunities that’s also a big deal to me. It’s not just about working with cool animals it’s much deeper than that. When I was a kid my dream was to go to Antarctica and save the walruses. I planned fundraisers, I did research and I got bullied because of it but my passion for helping wildlife and conserving species has never gone away. I understand that I can do that without being a vet but I really love medicine and it’s the perfect combination.

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[DVMDream]

I have no problem working with people, I wouldn’t be ok tell someone to take they’re pet somewhere else to be put down because they’re moving and the pet is healthy. I would want to pay for parents who couldn’t afford treatment and I can’t do that for every low income family. It has nothing to not liking people it’s those common situations that I don’t want to deal with.

In zoo med the pet owner still exists. It just exists in multiple people from the other zoo staff to the board of directors, to the trustees and you as the vet typically don't get a ton of input on what happens to the animals. Sure they take into consideration what you say but from those that I know who work in zoo med the ultimate decision on how an animal is treated or isn't lies with the board of directors/trustees.

So basically your pet owner goes from 1 person or maybe a family to an entire upper management within a corporation.

This same thing exists in shelter medicine too except add in then trying to appease the animal rights activist volunteers as well.

You don't stop dealing with humans it is just a different set/dynamic of humans.

 

[max_wildlife]

I have vet experience in shelter and GP, I have an interview at a SPCA hospital next week where the position is specifically designed for someone to be mentored by the new vet, the new vet starting there really wanted to mentor someone so it’s the perfect opportunity plus they will be training me to become a tech. I started late because I didn’t decide I wanted to go to vet school until junior year so I had to catch up on experience.

try not to stress about starting late -- in terms of small animal, it seems you have more experience than i did when i was a junior in undergrad. i'm 30 and only in my first year of vet school. i wasn't totally sure about it until 26 or so, after working in the wildlife field for a while and recognizing the things i wanted to change/impact. i used to worry about it a lot. now it doesn't bug me as much.

My drive other than loving the zoo/aquatic animals is that I want to help species conservation, with the amount of damage that’s been done to this planet, I feel responsible to be part of the solution, that is a really big driving force for me is to help give back to wildlife because they were here before us and we have done so much harm and damage and I really feel passionate about it. I even want to eventually open up my own wildlife rehabilitation center and give pre-vet and vet students the opportunity to work with me and give them the experience they need to pursue their passions like the vets I work with now have given me. I have been given so many amazing opportunities and I want to make sure other students like me get the same opportunities that’s also a big deal to me. It’s not just about working with cool animals it’s much deeper than that. When I was a kid my dream was to go to Antarctica and save the walruses. I planned fundraisers, I did research and I got bullied because of it but my passion for helping wildlife and conserving species has never gone away. I understand that I can do that without being a vet but I really love medicine and it’s the perfect combination.

you're not alone. it's good to be a person that wants to heal the planet. i also understand what you wrote earlier about needing to have adrenaline and thrive in a chaotic environment. believe me, i get that. i'm just a student. and i'm not a zoo person, but i am solidly a wildlife person and by no means want to discourage you. i'm also skeptical that i have any place in gp myself. i've heard it's more exciting than it seems, but i'm stubborn about it. i do acknowledge it's there if i need it, but i look at it like my journalism degree; if i ever need to fall back on it i'd probably have to start as a beat reporter -- stuff that i wouldn't normally want to write about. not ideal for me, but it's there if i need it.

that said, i think having more or less an 'income plan' doesn't mean giving up your main plan. it doesn't necessarily have to be gp. i know i'll have a couple specific opportunities once i'm done with school, but i also know i won't make enough to survive on them. this is a regular conversation with my supervisors/mentors, who are wildlife vets but also had alternate ways to make money. if it helps, they're currently encouraging me to specialize in pathology/epi or further pursue academia after vet school {which also doesn't have much cash but would allow an avenue to continue my wildlife research}. i'm helping them start a new wildlife center, which is fascinating but slow progress and has already been in process for years. everything they're encouraging me to do has the intention of enriching the field. so you're right; through the different branches of medicine there are definitely creative ways to help wildlife. i think it's just about finding your angle. and hopefully the angle pays.

for zoo stuff, i've only worked at one smaller aza-accredited zoo, and the vet rotated through every week or so while working private practice most of the time. so i can't shed much light on that. but to your original post asking if anyone ever failed a course - I never got the Fs on my transcript, but I did withdraw from organic chem twice. got berated about it a bit in an interview. again, i'm in my first year of vet school now and it's been fine.

 

[jmiam2]

try not to stress about starting late -- in terms of small animal, it seems you have more experience than i did when i was a junior in undergrad. i'm 30 and only in my first year of vet school. i wasn't totally sure about it until 26 or so, after working in the wildlife field for a while and recognizing the things i wanted to change/impact. i used to worry about it a lot. now it doesn't bug me as much.

you're not alone. it's good to be a person that wants to heal the planet. i also understand what you wrote earlier about needing to have adrenaline and thrive in a chaotic environment. believe me, i get that. i'm just a student. and i'm not a zoo person, but i am solidly a wildlife person and by no means want to discourage you. i'm also skeptical that i have any place in gp myself. i've heard it's more exciting than it seems, but i'm stubborn about it. i do acknowledge it's there if i need it, but i look at it like my journalism degree; if i ever need to fall back on it i'd probably have to start as a beat reporter -- stuff that i wouldn't normally want to write about. not ideal for me, but it's there if i need it.

that said, i think having more or less an 'income plan' doesn't mean giving up your main plan. it doesn't necessarily have to be gp. i know i'll have a couple specific opportunities once i'm done with school, but i also know i won't make enough to survive on them. this is a regular conversation with my supervisors/mentors, who are wildlife vets but also had alternate ways to make money. if it helps, they're currently encouraging me to specialize in pathology/epi or further pursue academia after vet school {which also doesn't have much cash but would allow an avenue to continue my wildlife research}. i'm helping them start a new wildlife center, which is fascinating but slow progress and has already been in process for years. everything they're encouraging me to do has the intention of enriching the field. so you're right; through the different branches of medicine there are definitely creative ways to help wildlife. i think it's just about finding your angle. and hopefully the angle pays.

for zoo stuff, i've only worked at one smaller aza-accredited zoo, and the vet rotated through every week or so while working private practice most of the time. so i can't shed much light on that. but to your original post asking if anyone ever failed a course - I never got the Fs on my transcript, but I did withdraw from organic chem twice. got berated about it a bit in an interview. again, i'm in my first year of vet school now and it's been fine.

Thank you so much everything you said helps a lot!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

The head vet of the zoo I did an externship at spends approximately 50% of his time dealing with people that range from the other 3 vets/2 techs to the animal care staff to the board of trustees to the media when **** hits the fan. He shmoozes a lot for donations. The animal care staff can act much like pet owners when it comes to the individuals they care for.

Though she is not on here much, @pinkpuppy9 might have the most extensive experience trying to get into zoo med and may be able to shed light on the journey. 3 people from my school have gained zoo med residencies in the last 5 years that I know of. And we have quite an extensive networking system and wildlife/exotics capabilities. Probably one of the best schools for that aspect. That's 3 people who made it to residency when arguably 400 people started as wanting zoo med in that time.

Not for nothing, one should be okay with going into GP since approximately 60-70% of veterinary students go into GP.

As per usual, I'm late to this party as I rarely login these days like you said I'm not reading the whole thread so I am sure everyone has already covered everything, but I'll ramble a bit.

I actually landed a zoo internship this year, I'm super stoked (and also still shocked that I actually got one on my first try). It's super competitive, and some of the best people I know are still trying to get their first internship, or a residency after their 2/3/4th internships.

Zoo med is for sure full of human interaction. A zoo vet actually can't do anything without running it by the keeper of the animal, area supervisor, curator of the department, and sometimes the other vets. I personally know one vet who was fired over his sh*tty attitude towards everyone else. Not that I am implying that you are gonna have a bad attitude in any way, but saying 'I don't want to deal with pet parents' isn't going to fly in almost any aspect of vet med. In *my* experience, the only specialties that have zero client contact are radiology and sometimes pathology. I would consider this before you continue your path...if you are not looking to deal with people in highly emotional situations, this field may not work super well for you as its almost unavoidable. Even zoo vets have to deal with people during emotional times - that includes keeper/animal care staff, non-animal contact zoo staff, and the media.

For those that are saying there are no jobs in zoo med...I don't agree. Getting a residency sucks, but if you follow the AAZV careers page, there are multiple listings every month. You have to be flexible in terms of location to succeed in this field. I've actually been applying to them alongside internships and have interviewed for multiple (they all stated to try again after I did an internship, but still I got interviews). You do NOT need a residency to succeed in this field, although IMO you have more opportunities with a residency under your belt. Also IMO, if you just want to work in a zoo/aquarium, you statistically have better odds doing so as a keeper or aquarist...something worth seriously considering, and I often wonder if I should have stuck with that plan B in my undergrad phase.

In terms of my plan B to zoo med, I've been comfortable in ER which honestly makes sense. A lot of what zoo vets do on a daily basis is put out various fires, which is what ER vets do. ER carries the benefits of better work/life balance (unlikely to have on call, 3-4 days/week, not a lot of patient follow up work) and a markedly better salary. I was going to maybe change locations, but stay in ER for the forseeable future if I didn't get an internship this year. Every day is different in ER - you do see a lot of the same (vomiting/diarrhea), but I've never felt 'bored' with it.

Another thing I want to add in - you won't learn enough in any vet school to hit the ground running in zoo, aquatics, or fisheries/wildlife. I went to Illinois which is probably in the top 3-5 schools for zoo/exotics focused individuals, and I am still taking a TON of out-of-pocket CE to get myself in this field. I've done MarVet, SeaVet, the Purdue course, the Wilds/Columbus Zoo course, and am finishing the UF aquatics certificate this semester. It takes dedication and work (and money), and it's completely okay to change your mind in the future. For example, I think my class of ~120 had 30-40ish people that came in wanting to do zoo medicine. As far as I know, only 3-4 of us still are trying to get there. Once you get into substantial debt and are exhausted after 8+ years of schooling, it's okay to seek a better lifestyle.

For the most part I believe this is just about as competitive as zoo med, so I wouldn’t necessarily consider aquatics a back up plan to zoo med unless you are planning on fish-only in a fishery for a state DNR, then it might be slightly more possible with a lot of leg work during school.

Honestly more competitive, just based on the fewer number of aquariums/fewer aquarium vet positions.

Anyways OP, this crowd basically has said it all. Message me anytime if you want to chat more, I'll try to be more present and check my inbox just in case haha.

 

[SkiOtter]

I actually landed a zoo internship this year, I'm super stoked (and also still shocked that I actually got one on my first try). It's super competitive, and some of the best people I know are still trying to get their first internship, or a residency after their 2/3/4th internships.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!

Thank you <3 I feel like a dirty, dirty imposter though. Also, most of my zoo med knowledge went into brain storage over the last 3 years so I'm a bit panicked!

 

[SkiOtter]

Thank you <3 I feel like a dirty, dirty imposter though. Also, most of my zoo med knowledge went into brain storage over the last 3 years so I'm a bit panicked!

You got this!!!!
Fake it til you make it if you have to 😂

 

[that redhead]

@pinkpuppy9 congratulations!!

 

[SardonicWit]

Thank you <3 I feel like a dirty, dirty imposter though. Also, most of my zoo med knowledge went into brain storage over the last 3 years so I'm a bit panicked!

This keeps me going. 😂 Congratulations! You're clearly doing something right, so give yourself some credit!

 

[Christina Dages]

Seconding this. I had multiple Cs, 2 Ds, 1 F, and 2 withdrawals on my transcripts and I will be starting vet school this fall. I did retake the class I got the F in. When I was applying, I just had to double check which schools looked at what GPAs. My overall GPA was okay, but I believe my last 45 was lower than some schools would have accepted.

What school did you get accepted to?

 

[futuredogtor614]

What school did you get accepted to?

I applied twice. My first cycle I was accepted at Ross and waitlisted at Illinois (which is my IS school) and RVC. My second time I was accepted at Illinois. I should also add I had over 5k hours of veterinary experience, as I've been in the field since late 2015.

 

[Christina Dages]

Congrats! And thank you for the reply. I will be a first time applicant this cycle and I’m very nervous as I have a similar situation with grades. I am looking to apply to University of Arizona and mostly likely Ross and St George as back ups. I

I’m a little confused about GPAs. Is overall cumulative every college class taken? If so I have a 3.01. For U of A my overall prereq GPA is 3.05 and science gpa (prereqs) is 2.86. They will look at 2.75 and up. I have over 15,000 vet hours with varied experience. I’m an RVT and have been for 8 years. I am 29 but have been in hospitals since I was 16. I also taught an AVMA accredited vet tech program for 4 years. I will have 3 letters of recc from DVMs that I most recently worked with and I’m confident they will be very strong. Also confident in my writing skills for essay prompts.

Any thoughts? Or know anyone at U of A?

 

[SkiOtter]

Is overall cumulative every college class taken?

Yes. Every college class you have ever taken in your life will be counted and you need to send EVERY transcript. Even for that 1 art class at community college. Even for all those dual enrollment courses you took at a CC in high school. Everything. People have gotten denied because they did not put every transcript in.