Go DO or apply again MD

[tofuuu]

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I definitely understand where @FriendlyFH is coming from. DO isn't for everyone. I definitely know physicians and students who are happy with DO but I also know people who feel bitter and regretful. I personally didn't apply to any DOs. Not because I view DOs as being inferior to MDs. Your degree doesn't define what kind of doctor you end up turning out to be. But because I am a very prideful person (I admit it's one of my flaws) and know I would feel very sensitive about how others view me because of my degree. We all agree that there are people out there that view DO as being a step down from MD. Whether that's true or not will always be up for debate. However, that view isn't going to change anytime soon. If that bothers you, then you might have to go through your career feeling like you need to prove yourself to other people every single time the whole MD vs. DO talk comes up. I don't know about you, but that sounds awfully stressful to me. When I become a doctor, I think i'll have enough things to worry about. The last thing I want to worry about is how my colleagues view me based on my degree. I was also told by a DO physician that it is harder (but not impossible) to get into residency programs for some of the more competitive specialties.

My advice to you is to be honest with yourself. If you're okay with the challenges that come with being a DO, then take the acceptance and run with it! If you realize that you're not okay with settling, then take at least 2 years to do what you need to do and apply again.

 

[FFH]

I honestly question someones desire to be a physician if they aren't willing to go DO.

Not so quick with your judgment I'd suggest. It depends on why the person is unwilling to go DO. If the person can't make it into MD program and still won't go to DO, then yes. If the person want something that DO program don't offer and the said person can have the ability to get into MD with a couple years of extra work and he or she is willing to wait, then no.

 

[j4pac]

Not so quick with your judgment I'd suggest. It depends on why the person is unwilling to go DO. If the person can't make it into MD program and still won't go to DO, then yes. If the person want something that DO program don't offer and the said person can have the ability to get into MD with a couple years of extra work and he or she is willing to wait, then no.

If they are UNWILLING to go to DO...I question whether or not they are dedicated to becoming a physician. And I question whether or not they are going into the profession for the right reasons.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

I definitely understand where @FriendlyFH is coming from. DO isn't for everyone. I definitely know physicians and students who are happy with DO but I also know people who feel bitter and regretful. I personally didn't apply to any DOs. Not because I view DOs as being inferior to MDs. Your degree doesn't define what kind of doctor you end up turning out to be. But because I am a very prideful person (I admit it's one of my flaws) and know I would feel very sensitive about how others view me because of my degree. We all agree that there are people out there that view DO as being a step down from MD. Whether that's true or not will always be up for debate. However, that view isn't going to change anytime soon. If that bothers you, then you might have to go through your career feeling like you need to prove yourself to other people every single time the whole MD vs. DO talk comes up. I don't know about you, but that sounds awfully stressful to me. When I become a doctor, I think i'll have enough things to worry about. The last thing I want to worry about is how my colleagues view me based on my degree. I was also told by a DO physician that it is harder (but not impossible) to get into residency programs for some of the more competitive specialties.

My advice to you is to be honest with yourself. If you're okay with the challenges that come with being a DO, then take the acceptance and run with it! If you realize that you're not okay with settling, then take at least 2 years to do what you need to do and apply again.

"Settling" for DO? Nice. #byefelicia

 

[LizzyM]

Maybe "a big difference" in the 2022 income, but not a big one at all in terms of life time income.

Frankly, I'm a little disappointed to hear that on this matter, income difference, especially a small one, was all that the famous LizzyM had to say.

What did you want me to say? Making a high income in 2022 makes it more likely to earn a life-time high income, or require fewer years to reach a total lifetime income of X compared with someone who takes the same job but starts years later.

What is the difference between becoming a practicing DO in 2022 or becoming a practicing MD in 2024?.... Maybe $300,000 earned while you are still young. Put 5% in a tax deferred retirement plan and have it earning interest for 2 years longer than it otherwise would.

@FriendlyFH, you made your choices and you want others to validate that choice but that choice isn't the best choice for everyone. In practical terms, there is little difference between DO now or MD later aside from the year in which one becomes an attending.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Why did you apply DO if you weren't 100% willing to go?

In his defense, this is very easy to say once you have an acceptance in hand.

A lot of us remember being in OPs position. At the beginning of the cycle you just want ONE acceptance. Doesn't matter if it's MD or DO. If my VR score hadn't kept my MCAT under 30 I would have applied MD too.

The problem is once people get an acceptance they get greedy and want more. It's human nature.

I just got my Cardiopulm grade back and I wish it was a tad higher.

I knew the first time he posted his stats in Pre-DO that he would want MD.

---

If I was in your shoes I would do the best I could to improve my application and reapply.

There are times I wish I had retaken the MCAT and pushed for MD.

OMM can be a PITA at some institutions. Luckily my school doesn't push it down our throats. I was texting another SDN member and he was telling me how absurd the requirements are at his school on OMM competencies. It's ridiculous and gets in the way. I have a couple of friends who were enthusiastic about OMM in the beginning. Now they think it's a major waste of time.

From what I've heard, that's not entirely true. What about certain specialties and high caliber residency programs that DO students have limited access to?

Ask sylvanthus or cliquesh what they think.

Dude I hear ya I do, but premeds in general are clueless about what is going in with this stuff. They will continue to apply to DO schools in droves. SDN is a bit different than the real world

Wrong, there is DO discrimination out there even in fields that aren't considered to be competitive. I don't know how many times I have pointed this out, but even in EM, 25% of PDs will NOT interview DOs. Even with awesome boards. They just won't. Take a look at the PD survey sometime.

Even with 250s USMLE step 1 and 2, 700ish comlex 1 and 2, national leadership, great class rank, etc etc etc I had to apply to twice the number of MD programs to get the same number of interviews as an MD student with lower stats.

Pretending there is no discrimination and it is "all about individual performance" is overly simplistic and naive.

There are 3 reasons to apply DO:

1) You couldn't get into an MD program.
2) You are limited geographically due to family, house whatever.
3) You are just really into OMM for some reason.

Otherwise MD is the way to go, but this discussion has been done to death.

No. I know someone that had a 260, multiple pubs in derm, all honors, super hot, etc. They applied to every single Acgme derm program. They got 3 interviews and did not match. They did end up matching aoa derm the following year.

I believe cliquesh also had a step 1 >250. There is a post in his history about his experience interviewing for a residency. When applicants are borderline he ALWAYS tells them to go MD.

Edit:

Thanks, nontradca, hah.

I had a 250 usmle, a 600's on level 1 and 700's on the level 2. I applied to roughly 60 programs and got roughly 40 interviews. I would imagine you will fair similarly (25 to 40 invites). You are fine with 60 programs and probably would be fine with fewer. I personally think it's worth applying to 60ish programs. It will give you peace of mind and you'll be surprised by which places grant you interviews.

You will match anesthesia. Don't worry about it too much.

Not exactly. I've interviewed at some really good programs, but there are other programs, some top programs, some middle tier, and some bottom tier programs, that will not even consider my application because Im a DO. That's just the way it is. I seriously doubt no amount of hard work or board scores could ever change it.

The USMDs I was talking about were interviewing at programs out west and in the south that instantly rejected me. So, it's not the end of the world being a DO, but there is definitely an inequality between DOs and MDs, even in "DO friendly" fields.

Ugh, I can't find the detailed post he made about his experience. He essentially said he had to apply to a lot more places and interviewed with MDs that had much lower stats than his.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I politely beg to differ. The post only mentioned it might be troublesome to work on the app more and to reapply. What difference that I mentioned do not apply? please clarify? 😵

I'm quoting from a different post:
"Thanks for the feedback all. Honestly I don't know if I can put myself through another two years of pre med hell. You all have been through it so you understand what it is like. It is hell. And to top things off, it would feel even more crappy to do this as I'm older (no offense to the older folks). I would just be extending my 20s with another few years of pre med purgatory; might as well have just taken those years off to do something completely different."

And later I replied that this difficult process can become a nightmare if you lack motivation.

For a lot of applicants, there really isn't much of a difference between MD and DO. I've had classmates who took the DO acceptance over another cycle and were happy with their decision. They wanted to speed up the process more than anything. They weren't very concerned with maximizing their earnings.

On the other hand, if your goal is to be a fellowship trained academic specialist( with perhaps more $$), then MD is the more favorable path. And these were the differences I was referring to. Obviously, if the OP expressed a desire for rad onc and/or a high income, then the responses would have been different.

 

[tofuuu]

"Settling" for DO? Nice. #byefelicia

OP is considering re-applying because he/she only has a DO acceptance and wants to see if he/she will have better luck with MDs next time. What that tells me is that OP would have chosen MD if he/she had a choice. So yes, I think that's called settling.

 

[FFH]

What did you want me to say? Making a high income in 2022 makes it more likely to earn a life-time high income, or require fewer years to reach a total lifetime income of X compared with someone who takes the same job but starts years later.

What is the difference between becoming a practicing DO in 2022 or becoming a practicing MD in 2024?.... Maybe $300,000 earned while you are still young. Put 5% in a tax deferred retirement plan and have it earning interest for 2 years longer than it otherwise would.

I am disappointed because you ditched aside all those valuable things one can gain from taking a longer gap year(s) other than the concern for a relatively small amount of money. In your logic, no one should take gap years to enhance app, to know more about medicine as a profession, to know about themselves. no resident should ever bother to take a year longer to do more research to get into a more competitive residency program. No one should ever do a prestigious fellowship, or a long residency, because that means a delay in income! Maybe no one actually should choose to go to med school at all, as far as immediate financial reward is concerned!
I guess I was wrong in hoping for more. After all you are the queen of cold numbers.

@FriendlyFH, you made your choices and you want others to validate that choice but that choice isn't the best choice for everyone.

You advice of going DO is a great advice and you want others to validate that advice but your advice isn't the best one for everyone. There are people who have chosen differently and who are inherently happy about their choices. Talking about me seeking validations, I think I'm doing quite well in general without yours. If you can avoid making negative assumptions about my motivations and instead assume that everyone here is trying to help OP that'd be great though. 😉

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

@FriendlyFH, fwiw I usually advocate for the extra time to strengthen an app. But I don't think the OP wants any part of it. Or maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm jealous that you were recently in LA 😛

 

[jl lin]

It's clear some people have never studied Shakespeare. " A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." It's about what you do. You make it \--MD or DO--what you want it to be for your patients and you. Yea there is other junk to be annoyed about; but everyone is dealing with that--both DOs and MDs.

Didn't any of you ever read about the early history of medicine and becoming a physician in the US? Do you know why physicians moved into including the title of Dr.? Does the influence of Europeans and others that went to university to have their ailments considered sound familiar? I am not against physicians having doctoral degrees; but reading about the history of it might give you a little perspective. Start pre through post Flexner.

 

[pink/\floyd]

Ok so I am a reapplicant who only applied to MD schools last cycle. I had no luck during the cycle and of course I was terribly disappointed. People asked me to apply to DO schools right about this time of the year.. But I didn't apply. Why? Because: 1) I never shadowed a DO and 2) I didn't really know much about osteopathic schools.

I decided that I would improve my application to the best of my ability and reapply day 1, so that I never have any regrets in the future or any "what if I did this" thoughts. I also extensively shadowed a DO (10+ months in the ED) and realized, that there was absolutely no difference between how MDs and DOs practiced. To me they were both equally good physicians.

My point is.. I went into the cycle 100% okay with the idea that if I only got into a DO school, I would happily attend. OP, you should have thought about the consequences before applying. That being said, you should be ecstatic to get into med school! It is getting harder and harder to get into med school each year, and it is a real achievement to get in! I agree with what others above me have said "RUN with your acceptance"! There is absolutely no guarantee you would get into your school of choice next round.

 

[LizzyM]

I applied both MD and DO this cycle with no luck on the MD side. I'm still relatively young and wanted to know if you all think it's worth taking a few years and fighting again for that MD spot, i.e post bac/new mcat/ new personal statement. Basically a new application.

I'm not really sure what I want to do but kind of sure that it's nothing extremely competitive. In my shoes, would you just run with the DO acceptance or take more time and apply MD? I really can't figure this out

Edit - I applied DO this cycle and was okay with it but as it becomes more certain I'm a little apprehensive

I am disappointed because you ditched aside all those valuable things one can gain from taking a longer gap year(s) other than the concern for a relatively small amount of money. In your logic, no one should take gap years to enhance app, to know more about medicine as a profession, to know about themselves. no resident should ever bother to take a year longer to do more research to get into a more competitive residency program. No one should ever do a prestigious fellowship, or a long residency, because that means a delay in income! Maybe no one actually should choose to go to med school at all, as far as immediate financial reward is concerned!
I guess I was wrong in hoping for more. After all you are the queen of cold numbers.

Let's start at the beginning for the sake of @FriendlyFH.

An applicant applied this year. He is not sure what he wants do do but it's nothing extremely competitive. The OP is not interested in competitive residency or a prestigious fellowship. He wants to be a doc.

He has been admitted to a medical school but wonders if he should decline the offer and reapply with the hope of getting into a different school.

One should apply when one is ready to go to medical school. If you apply and get in, go. Any of the dithering about could I, should I go to a different type of school should be settled before you submit an application.

 

[49249700]

Just some thoughts...

I'm currently in an MD program, but applied DO as well. I shadowed an OMM specialist for a summer and its truly amazing stuff that should be appreciated. I definitely plan to do CME and learn the techniques later on because it is really that cool and actually works (I heard patients confirm this everyday) - although I've heard the majority of osteopathic physicians unfortunately do not use OMM in their practices even though it is so practical and applicable.

During an MD interview, I was asked what I would do if I was accepted to both and how would she know that my true interests weren't to actually go DO. I told her I wouldn't pick based on whether the school was MD/DO, but base my choice on which school was a BETTER FIT for me. She seemed very pleased with that answer...and I think that should be a general guideline when making acceptance decisions. So yeah, you could wait and reapply MD, but you should think if you might be happier/perform better at the DO school you've been accepted to already than at the MD schools you may or may not get into in the future.

Also, if you decide not to take an acceptance if you get at least one, aren't you basically blacklisted after that? So that means you couldn't apply DO again. That should be another consideration if you think you may not get an acceptance to an MD school in the future.