GoFundMe - legit embarrassing question

[itscomplicated]

First of all, I'm sorry - I wasn't sure which forum was the best choice as this is a transition between residency & practice question. Second, it might have been a reasonable Confidential Consult but I take it that's not a thing anymore. But, I'd really like some advice before I do something that could be incredibly stupid. And, although it might be okay to quote specific things for emphasis or clarification, please don't quote the whole thing as I may regret this immediately...

I'm in a financial bind, post-residency, and unemployed. Regretfully, I didn't take care of some necessary expenses during residency (like applying for my license, etc) because I assumed that I would get a job offer that would cover moving expenses and licensing fees (and I was applying to multiple states). Although any financial advice is certainly appreciated - trust me that I've already explore most normal options (loans, borrowing from family, debt management, liquidating anything, credit lines, and even bankruptcy). I'm getting decent job interviews, but now most places are treating the fact that I don't have an active license as a giant red flag. And, frankly, every time I get a small chunk of change (consulting work, tax return, borrowing what I can), it immediately goes out the door for living expenses. (And I exhausted unemployment).

Maybe it's modern mentality, but I did think that maybe I could make a compelling case on GoFundMe, although I realize that there are major downsides to doing so. I feel like if I could just get all of my licensing fees and professional expenses (which I have developed a budget for), I could eliminate a lot of stress and desperation, and actually have much better luck in securing offers.

I'm asking you anonymously if this is a bad idea. I was actually going to float this by some trusted friends, and this was the email that I drafted:

I'm limiting this post to a very small number of close friends and colleagues, and a few more senior folks that I trust. The common feature is that I trust your advice, and I also trust that you'll keep this confidential. I may even delete this shortly if I start to have second thoughts. But, frankly, I need some guidance. For now, though - I'm going to limit this request to a specific topic.

As a professional, do you think it's excessively embarrassing and/or unprofessional to use a crowd-sourcing platform to raise funds for professional expenses to get started? I'd be glad to explain further (off-line) about how I got to be in the position I'm in. But, ultimately, I'm finding myself in a predicament until I get all of the basics taken care of (licensing, board exams, etc.). And, I realize that I should have taken care of this during residency but I was under the impression that my job offers would take care of a lot of these expenses (along with relocation and signing/start up, etc.).

To be clear, I'm not asking you on this specific list for donations. But, if I go with "GoFundMe", I will ultimately be hitting up my social network (by definition, that's how they work). I feel like I can publicly share a reasonable list of what I need to do, with budget. But, there's definitely a humiliation factor, as I'm now an unemployed [identifying characteristics] but still cannot get a job (and the feedback that I'm getting is that I should have had all of these ducks in a line beforehand). And, I really don't have family (or credit) resources that I can further draw on.

I don't fully understand Crowd-sourcing, but my intention would be to be able to repay anyone who made donations. Or alternatively (if they preferred), I would commit X number of hours of doing pro-bono volunteer work as repayment.

I am applying for non-clinical jobs as my primary plan, with the understanding that I should just save up for these fees and take care of them as I can afford to. However, I also realize that in the medical community, these gaps in clinical work / employment start to look suspicious, and I'm afraid of accumulating too many red flags if I'm ever going to work in medicine.

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[Lostin_space]

First of all, I'm sorry - I wasn't sure which forum was the best choice as this is a transition between residency & practice question. Second, it might have been a reasonable Confidential Consult but I take it that's not a thing anymore. But, I'd really like some advice before I do something that could be incredibly stupid. And, although it might be okay to quote specific things for emphasis or clarification, please don't quote the whole thing as I may regret this immediately...

I'm in a financial bind, post-residency, and unemployed. Regretfully, I didn't take care of some necessary expenses during residency (like applying for my license, etc) because I assumed that I would get a job offer that would cover moving expenses and licensing fees (and I was applying to multiple states). Although any financial advice is certainly appreciated - trust me that I've already explore most normal options (loans, borrowing from family, debt management, liquidating anything, credit lines, and even bankruptcy). I'm getting decent job interviews, but now most places are treating the fact that I don't have an active license as a giant red flag. And, frankly, every time I get a small chunk of change (consulting work, tax return, borrowing what I can), it immediately goes out the door for living expenses. (And I exhausted unemployment).

Maybe it's modern mentality, but I did think that maybe I could make a compelling case on GoFundMe, although I realize that there are major downsides to doing so. I feel like if I could just get all of my licensing fees and professional expenses (which I have developed a budget for), I could eliminate a lot of stress and desperation, and actually have much better luck in securing offers.

I'm asking you anonymously if this is a bad idea. I was actually going to float this by some trusted friends, and this was the email that I drafted:

I don't get it. You finished residency in good standing right? And are getting job offers? Unless you are waiting for a license in a state that takes a long time to license you can certainly live off credit cards for a month or two. You can pay licensing fees by cc too. You have no one that can help out? How close are you in getting a job?

 

[itscomplicated]

I don't get it. You finished residency in good standing right? And are getting job offers? Unless you are waiting for a license in a state that takes a long time to license you can certainly live off credit cards for a month or two. You can pay licensing fees by cc too. You have no one that can help out? How close are you in getting a job?

I had several interviews in different states during the last 6 months of my residency, but didn't get those jobs. I'm now 9 months out from residency (used up 6 months of unemployment), board-eligible in my specialty. I'm still applying for a variety of jobs, and getting interviews. But, no current job offers. Several places have almost come out and said that they'd hire me, except for the fact that I don't have an active license. And some of them specifically said that they are only interviewing me as a courtesy as I have a fairly impressive CV, but would not likely consider hiring me to a clinical position without having my license in hand. The most recent job that I was interviewed for (that would be an awesome match for me, and I already have a lot of connections within their "organization") said that they would allow a 3 month leeway from the hire date to get licensed.

Without too much identifying information, I'll also just point out that I'm in a relatively small discipline, so there aren't a zillion job postings. But, I'm applying for a substantial proportion of the ones I'm qualified for.

But, yeah - credit cards are not an option (already maxed) and already in financial doomsday survival mode.

 

[itscomplicated]

...How close are you in getting a job?

Also, like I mentioned in the part I quoted (that was going to be an email to my friends before I decided to try anonymous advice first), my primary plan at this point is to try to get *any* work so that I can deal with living expenses and saving up for fees as I can. I really don't want to "beg" for money, particularly from friends, colleagues, and more importantly, people who might ultimately be employers. But, when applying for clinical jobs, I know you have to justify every gap that you're away from medicine, and one of my concerns is that the longer I drag this out, the harder it will be to convince someone to hire me.

[also, not that major, but could you unquote my original post please? - like I said, I might decide this was a bad idea to even discuss].

 

[LucidSplash]

You could consider a loan from Lending Company or Prosper or such. You can check what you'll be approved for without a hard hit on your credit report.

 

[Lostin_space]

Any reason why you did not get licensed/jobs during your last few months of residency? Also to be honest something seems odd. Lots of residents are in the process of applying for licenses and not licensed by the time interviewing for jobs comes around. It seems like you are getting decent # of interviews but just need a license, for which many jobs pay for. ummm.

I would say get a loan so you can apply for licenses then. Any type of medical job will require some type of licensing so can't get anything without a license. Why not apply for a cheap fast license, say like IN, which typically is done in like 2-3 weeks, do some moonlighting once that comes through, save up, and continue your job hunt?

Otherwise I guess gofundme seems fine

 

[itscomplicated]

You could consider a loan from Lending Company or Prosper or such. You can check what you'll be approved for without a hard hit on your credit report.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it. I'm pessimistic, as my credit sucks and as I said, I currently do not have full-time employment (or collateral, or a cosigner). But, it's worth a shot.

 

[Lostin_space]

Like I said, get a cheap, quick license, and start working.

 

[itscomplicated]

Any reason why you did not get licensed/jobs during your last few months of residency? Also to be honest something seems odd. Lots of residents are in the process of applying for licenses and not licensed by the time interviewing for jobs comes around. It seems like you are getting decent # of interviews but just need a license, for which many jobs pay for. ummm.

I would say get a loan so you can apply for licenses then. Any type of medical job will require some type of licensing so can't get anything without a license. Why not apply for a cheap fast license, say like IN, which typically is done in like 2-3 weeks, do some moonlighting once that comes through, save up, and continue your job hunt?

Otherwise I guess gofundme seems fine

Clearly, I should have applied for more jobs during residency. I had two prospects that seemed like they were going to make offers but I didn't get them. Again, not trying to identify myself. But, in my specialty, we can apply for jobs in a closely related specialty (which both of these jobs were). At the time, I really expected to get something more in what "I wanted to do" but these jobs were too tempting. But, in general, the "related" specialty has many more job opportunities and generally is more lucrative.

And, yes - when I was interviewing as a resident, no one seemed concerned that I didn't have an active license. But, now 9 months out, it's basically "What the hell is wrong with this person?". So, aside from this as proof of my prior decision making, I'm already starting out on a bad foot.

But, thank you for the IN suggestion. Although my plan was to apply for a license in my current state (which is known to have a slow turn-around time), I realize that any active license would be a step in the right direction. I'm quite open to VA or IHS jobs in general. And, I also assume I could start moonlighting / locums in urgent care relatively quickly after having the license in hand (even if it meant relocating).

 

[itscomplicated]

Like I said, get a cheap, quick license, and start working.

Was typing my response at the time but seriously - thanks for the advice

 

[smq123]

First off, I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

Second, you wouldn't be the first physician that I've seen post something on a GoFundMe site. I don't know if you'll get any donations, but anything is better than nothing.

Otherwise, I agree with getting ANY state license and working in an urgent care ASAP. If you could get something through locums, that'd be even better.

 

[rokshana]

i don;t get it...why not just call a locums company and work locums...they will get your license for you.

and 9 months out of residency and no license? why just not apply for it...short of a few states, most states give a license with in 9 months...something is not kosher in this story...

 

[DrBowtie]

This story just seems bizarre.
A license isn't very expensive in the grand scheme of things and especially at the opportunity cost of a six figure job.

I'm shocked that such a small hoop as getting a license would be a reason to not get a job. (Assuming you have a clean record).

Drive for Uber, Deliver pizza, work at Starbucks.

Also based on the posts, I wonder if they are Nuc Med.

 

[itscomplicated]

i don;t get it...why not just call a locums company and work locums...they will get your license for you.

and 9 months out of residency and no license? why just not apply for it...short of a few states, most states give a license with in 9 months...something is not kosher in this story...

Thank you for the locums advice. Honestly didn't know that. Most of my interactions with locums folks have been through recruiters. And, since folks since to insist that the backstory is important, I'll mention that I started out in IM and changed fields. So, my original NPI is listed as IM, and the vast majority of recruiters that contact me directly are approaching me for IM jobs.

[And pre-emptive apology for snark, as I realize that I came here asking for advice, so I'm trying not to be overly sensitive about the responses]

And, I'm not sure why it's not obvious from what I said, but I have not yet applied for my license specifically because of the cost. I thought I was being clear that I cannot afford this (and yes - I accept full culpability that it was poor decision making on my part not to take care of this when I was making those big "residency" bucks, but I didn't expect to be out of work for more than a month let alone 9. It's not that it would take 9 months turn-around, even in this god-awful state.

This story just seems bizarre.
A license isn't very expensive in the grand scheme of things and especially at the opportunity cost of a six figure job.

I'm shocked that such a small hoop as getting a license would be a reason to not get a job. (Assuming you have a clean record).

Drive for Uber, Deliver pizza, work at Starbucks.

Also based on the posts, I wonder if they are Nuc Med.

[Again, apologies for any snark read into this]

Maybe people are misleading me, but I've had interviewers specifically tell me that this is the main reason that they didn't offer me the job despite being over-qualified for what they were looking for. And, agreed. It's a small opportunity cost, but I can't pull money out of my rectum. I've had living expenses for these 9 months, and I've exhausted most of my resources during this time. I have been doing part-time gigs (mostly consulting), and I specified that I'm very likely going to end up working in a non-clinical position to save up [and yes, it may very well end up being in the service industry or temping, because when I apply for most other jobs in my area of expertise, they realize that I'm only planning to work with them as a bridge to a clinical job - wouldn't you consider it odd to hire an MD for something that requires a BS?

Not a bad guess as far as specialty, though. Probably roughly the same size and equally obscure compared to the majority of specialties.

Sorry for sounding bitchy, though. Clearly I'm not in a situation I'm proud about if I'm contemplating begging for money. But I do appreciate the feedback.

 

[DrBowtie]

Tough anonymous love here:

You were too proud for 9 months to just suck it up and get ANY job and now want to beg anonymous people for what you could have easily made in a couple months on a crappy side gig. That will never look favorable.

 

[deleted480308]

it's the kind of thing I would forward to my friends to laugh at if I say this gofundme rolling in my FB feed....

take literally anything that will pay you anything and get your junk together

 

[itscomplicated]

Tough anonymous love here:

You were too proud for 9 months to just suck it up and get ANY job and now want to beg anonymous people for what you could have easily made in a couple months on a crappy side gig. That will never look favorable.

Fair enough. I did want to know what impression I'd be giving off if I do this.

To make it worse, from what I've looked into, is that GoFundMe is specifically *not* anonymous. You can only promote and request donations from your social networks. So, I'd be publicly admitting to everyone I know that I'm a screw up.

But, yes. I clearly started off with too high expectations. I had (within the last year) turned down opportunities because they weren't "what I wanted to do" because I felt like I paid my dues. But, I'm definitely more humble now and have been consistently casting a wider net with my applications during this time. But, it's also not that I was sitting around eating bon-bons on unemployment this whole time. I was working on things that I thought would be worthwhile in building my reputation - just unfortunately they didn't pay.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

You do realize if you had gotten your license while in residency, they would have reimbursed you back, right? Were you that hard on with the expenses that you couldn't afford it with residency money when everyone else seems to be able to do so?

 

[itscomplicated]

You do realize if you had gotten your license while in residency, they would have reimbursed you back, right? Were you that hard on with the expenses that you couldn't afford it with residency money when everyone else seems to be able to do so?

My program most certainly would not. My colleagues all paid out of pocket. Maybe it's a specialty thing.

But, yes - my money management is apparently a long-standing issue because I was constantly broke during residency - again on those "big bucks", and one of my co-resident occasionally helped me out with temporary loans during residency (as he was a single dude from a wealthy family but frugal). I honestly do not think that I live outside of my means for a family my size. But, I'm not quite sure how much more frugally I could have lived (during residency or during this time) while still making all of the "normal" living expenses.

 

[WinslowPringle]

It looks like a Texas license is about $900. Indiana temporary license about $300. Iowa is about $500. California is about $1200. Is there something I'm missing? Are you talking about sums of money much larger than that?


So, you need to make money. What sort of temp jobs have you done? What are you doing on that front? Not to be a jerk but what about fast-food or retail or cleaning or those random Craigslist gigs? (Some of which pay more per hour than my residency pay, anyway...) What about tutoring? With an MD, you can be a teacher at a community college - summer session might need some anatomy or bio assistant profs.
Do you have anything you can sell? TV, furniture, clothes? Plasma?

And you need to decrease expenses. What do you consider 'normal' living expenses? Can you cut them at all?
-Do you own a car? Can you sell it for a cheaper car - or bike or public transport? If you lease a car (which isn't something I'd recommend, but...) is it the absolute cheapest vehicle you can lease?
-What are you spending on food each month? Are you eating out? Rice and beans ain't glamorous, but it's cheap calories.
-Where are you living? Unless you are homeless and crashing on friends' couches, can you rent a cheaper place?
-And what about cable and internet and a smart phone? Cable should absolutely go. Internet - get it at a library. Smart phones - get a dumb phone or at least make sure that you have explored the cheaper options outside of AT&T/Sprint/Verizon.
-Have you checked out some of the frugal-living and finance resources out there? Mr. MoneyMustache, Early Retirement Extreme, White Coat Investor, Bogleheads.... Ultimately, long-term, what are you doing to get your money management under control?

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I applied and recieved my license in May/June and was able to start my job in August without any problems. I'm not sure why this is a big issue unless they want you to start today.

 

[michaelrack]

Look at the locums websites or contact a locums company about a position. They will license you. Then work locums for a few months while looking for a more permanent job.

 

[deleted480308]

My program most certainly would not. My colleagues all paid out of pocket. Maybe it's a specialty thing.

But, yes - my money management is apparently a long-standing issue because I was constantly broke during residency - again on those "big bucks", and one of my co-resident occasionally helped me out with temporary loans during residency (as he was a single dude from a wealthy family but frugal). I honestly do not think that I live outside of my means for a family my size. But, I'm not quite sure how much more frugally I could have lived (during residency or during this time) while still making all of the "normal" living expenses.

you need to read whitecoatinvestor, clark howard and dave ramsey if you were borrowing money from a co-resident

you have an budgeting issue that won't dissappear just because you finally get a job. good luck

 

[doc05]

I'm gonna call "bs" on this one. obviously a troll. nothing about this story makes any sense.

 

[mvenus929]

How big is your family? If it's just you, I don't understand how you couldn't make it through residency on a resident salary. And if it's not just you, what other income revenue do you have and where is it going?

It sounds like your issues are far deeper than you are letting on, and you need to reevaluate your priorities yesterday. You need to be cutting every single cent you can. No eating out, no Starbucks, bike when you can, live in the cheapest place you can find, and start taking on odd jobs to make money to get a license. The fact that you don't have a license this far out from residency is a big red flag, especially because all sorts of people get them right after finishing intern year so they can moonlight. So, that is your first hurdle to correct.

Then, start looking into Dave Ramsey to figure out how to get yourself out of debt. For all his flaws, he has the simplest and most effective philosophy for debt management. Mr. Money Moustache is also a good option to look at, though you'll be focused more on the frugal side of things than the savings side, because your savings should be going to your debt.

 

[rokshana]

Thank you for the locums advice. Honestly didn't know that. Most of my interactions with locums folks have been through recruiters. And, since folks since to insist that the backstory is important, I'll mention that I started out in IM and changed fields. So, my original NPI is listed as IM, and the vast majority of recruiters that contact me directly are approaching me for IM jobs.

[And pre-emptive apology for snark, as I realize that I came here asking for advice, so I'm trying not to be overly sensitive about the responses]

And, I'm not sure why it's not obvious from what I said, but I have not yet applied for my license specifically because of the cost. I thought I was being clear that I cannot afford this (and yes - I accept full culpability that it was poor decision making on my part not to take care of this when I was making those big "residency" bucks, but I didn't expect to be out of work for more than a month let alone 9. It's not that it would take 9 months turn-around, even in this god-awful state.



[Again, apologies for any snark read into this]

Maybe people are misleading me, but I've had interviewers specifically tell me that this is the main reason that they didn't offer me the job despite being over-qualified for what they were looking for. And, agreed. It's a small opportunity cost, but I can't pull money out of my rectum. I've had living expenses for these 9 months, and I've exhausted most of my resources during this time. I have been doing part-time gigs (mostly consulting), and I specified that I'm very likely going to end up working in a non-clinical position to save up [and yes, it may very well end up being in the service industry or temping, because when I apply for most other jobs in my area of expertise, they realize that I'm only planning to work with them as a bridge to a clinical job - wouldn't you consider it odd to hire an MD for something that requires a BS?

Not a bad guess as far as specialty, though. Probably roughly the same size and equally obscure compared to the majority of specialties.

Sorry for sounding bitchy, though. Clearly I'm not in a situation I'm proud about if I'm contemplating begging for money. But I do appreciate the feedback.

pennsylvania license 80 bucks..really? you can't "afford" 80 bucks??

that's like my patients saying they can't afford the 4 dollars for their metformin....

 

[itscomplicated]

pennsylvania license 80 bucks..really? you can't "afford" 80 bucks??

that's like my patients saying they can't afford the 4 dollars for their metformin....

That's amazing to me, and obviously new information. See Winslow's post for a range of applications fees that I'm more familiar with.

But PA must be a little strange: https://physicianlicensing.com/pennsylvania/

Fees:

• Application Fee: $35 (AMG)/$85 (IMG)
• Background Check Fee : N/A
• License Renewal: $360

I'm not sure why the initial application would be so cheap, and the renewals more on the order of other states. But, I'd be glad to work in PA so I'll investigate this further.

 

[smq123]

That's amazing to me, and obviously new information. See Winslow's post for a range of applications fees that I'm more familiar with.

But PA must be a little strange: https://physicianlicensing.com/pennsylvania/



I'm not sure why the initial application would be so cheap, and the renewals more on the order of other states. But, I'd be glad to work in PA so I'll investigate this further.

I suspect that it is partly because in Pennsylvania, all medical licenses expire on December 31st of every even numbered year. It doesn't matter if the license was issued on December 1, 2016, it will expire 30 days later.

 

[itscomplicated]

I appreciate the budgeting advice from the others. I'm not going to go point-by-point. But, yes... I'm already made some of those changes in my life. And, some are not applicable or feasible changes. And, some I really need to take a hard look at.

Family size is 2. Household income significantly changed when I relocated us for residency, but agree - that's not a decent justification for us both remaining below our earning potential.

Again, though - I didn't know how to best use locums to my advantage. Seemed like it was a dead-end since most of my interactions were them contacting me for positions that weren't appropriate. But, I'll check to see if there are more locums companies that work in my specialty.

I'm gonna call "bs" on this one. obviously a troll. nothing about this story makes any sense.

Most certainly not trolling. This is my life, but I'm glad it's nonsensical to you.

Part of me definitely regrets making this thread because it's kind of depressing (I mean, beyond feeling bad about being in this situation, it's good to have a reality check, but a little frustrating when some of the comments seem to disregard what I already explained).

But, on the positive side... thank you for some good advice. And, it definitely reaffirmed my concerns that doing something like GoFundMe publicly would be met with negatively. At least I didn't embarrass myself further.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

That's amazing to me, and obviously new information. See Winslow's post for a range of applications fees that I'm more familiar with.

But PA must be a little strange: https://physicianlicensing.com/pennsylvania/



I'm not sure why the initial application would be so cheap, and the renewals more on the order of other states. But, I'd be glad to work in PA so I'll investigate this further.

You should still be able to handle the other licensing fees noted above, most of which are under 1000 bucks each. If you've been through residency and don't have a spare 1000 bucks to rub together...well i think it's already been established that you're bad with finances. I'm pretty sure I had a spare grand in my bank account back in college. I'd say try lendingclub or prosper for a short term small loan that has a better rate than a credit card...it'll pay off in the long run.

 

[itscomplicated]

You should still be able to handle the other licensing fees noted above, most of which are under 1000 bucks each. If you've been through residency and don't have a spare 1000 bucks to rub together...well i think it's already been established that you're bad with finances. I'm pretty sure I had a spare grand in my bank account back in college. I'd say try lendingclub or prosper for a short term small loan that has a better rate than a credit card...it'll pay off in the long run.

Noted. By my calculation, my belief is that I needed $2300 to get all of the ducks in a line. (But, given the trend of the thread, I'm not going to list out each expense because I have a feeling it will get nit-picked, and I'm quite sure that in my situation these are things I needed to have in place - I have been talking to my advisors since well before residency ended, even though apparently I wasn't getting the most complete advice along the way).

But, yes - I will work on our money management because I rarely had over a $1000 in savings, and although I don't think we're more prone to any life catastrophes than anyone else, something always seems to come up to wipe us out. But, yes - I hear that excuse all the time so I realize part of budgeting is making allowance for all of that "life" that is bound to happen...

 

[BigRedBeta]

This is one of the more remarkable book smarts vs street smarts cases I've seen...

1) You are in control of your NPI profile, you don't need to get a new one because you changed specialties. Go here: https://nppes.cms.hhs.gov/NPPES/Welcome.do

2) Do you understand the reasoning of the jobs you're applying to and why they are skipping over you? Credentialing for hospitals usually takes 6-8 weeks, 4 if you're lucky, but it can't take place until you have a license to practice in that state. If you're in a state like Texas, California or Florida - states well known for prolonged waits for licensing then you're essentially telling the practice you can start working for them in September. And that assumes that you have all your documents ready and can submit tomorrow, which is not feasible for anyone. It's not a red flag or some sort of marker that you're not going to be a good doc...it's timing and when can you start. If they need someone now, you're a terrible option.

3) Locum tenens is your ONLY option at this point. You need income and someone that will take care of details for you. I had a permanent job lined up but it didn't start until 6 months after I finished training. Locums companies will be able to tell you which states have the fastest turnaround times on licensing (Indiana is really fast in my experience) and do an extraordinary job of getting things pushed through as they often have placements that are on tight deadlines. And they will pay for everything, I got 2 different State Licenses and 2 DEA numbers paid for by locums companies. They obviously pay for travel and hotel while you're on assignment, too. Personally, I had the best luck with CompHealth and felt like they provided the most support...and I got my money faster with them than the other companies I went through.


4) Whatever your home state is, or where you want to practice, you need to be pulling that application now. The amount of paperwork for licensing and credentialing is immense. You need your transcripts from medical school, some states want college transcripts, you need all of your residency certificates, your board certification shingle, may need personal references, procedure logs, proof of malpractice coverage from residency, proof of vaccination, your last TB test...all things that if you don't have immediately on hand will take time to get.

 

[itscomplicated]

This is one of the more remarkable book smarts vs street smarts cases I've seen...

1) You are in control of your NPI profile, you don't need to get a new one because you changed specialties. Go here: https://nppes.cms.hhs.gov/NPPES/Welcome.do
....

4) Whatever your home state is, or where you want to practice, you need to be pulling that application now. The amount of paperwork for licensing and credentialing is immense. ....

Thank you - #2 & #3 are both helpful insights.

#1 - I know about managing my NPI, though. I changed it when I changed specialties. I don't know, however, how often recruiters pull data from the NPI database. I easily get 10 emails a day from recruiters for IM jobs. But, I actively have to look for things in my current specialty. I never get (well, rarely) get anyone coming to me with something specialty appropriate. But, I always assumed that it's because of my poorly connected specialty.

#4 - I'm not the most organized person, but I do have most of that ready to go, as I've needed it before and was given the list of what the states and/or FCVS would need (or those couple of places that seemed like they were close to offering me a position).

Maybe one point of clarification that would help me: If a state accepts FCVS, do you have to pay both their fees and FCVS? Or is that a way to streamline the costs?

 

[rokshana]

I suspect that it is partly because in Pennsylvania, all medical licenses expire on December 31st of every even numbered year. It doesn't matter if the license was issued on December 1, 2016, it will expire 30 days later.

yeah, that happened to me...licensed march of 2012 and expired dec 2012, but they renewed me for free...for 2 years..so licensed from 2012 to 2014 for 80 dollars...but yeah the 2nd renewal was more expensive (but 360 is still pretty cheap as licenses go).

 

[rokshana]

Again, though - I didn't know how to best use locums to my advantage. Seemed like it was a dead-end since most of my interactions were them contacting me for positions that weren't appropriate. But, I'll check to see if there are more locums companies that work in my specialty..

because you would have a J O B...really? you are 9 months unemployed and you are being picky?

 

[rokshana]

Thank you - #2 & #3 are both helpful insights.

#1 - I know about managing my NPI, though. I changed it when I changed specialties. I don't know, however, how often recruiters pull data from the NPI database. I easily get 10 emails a day from recruiters for IM jobs. But, I actively have to look for things in my current specialty. I never get (well, rarely) get anyone coming to me with something specialty appropriate. But, I always assumed that it's because of my poorly connected specialty.

#4 - I'm not the most organized person, but I do have most of that ready to go, as I've needed it before and was given the list of what the states and/or FCVS would need (or those couple of places that seemed like they were close to offering me a position).

Maybe one point of clarification that would help me: If a state accepts FCVS, do you have to pay both their fees and FCVS? Or is that a way to streamline the costs?

did you finish a IM residency and are able to practice? then guess what? work IM until; you can find the job in your specialty...smh? how does that not make sense to you?? sure you could be more selective say the month or 2 out of residency, but now? IM hospitalist locums pays well -easily 130-160/HOUR...an HOUR..one days work and you could pay for practically any license. THEN you have the "luxury" to keep looking for something in your specialty...

and locums companies have people who process the paperwork and have the clout to expedite things since they deal with the medical boards on a daily basis.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I did not use FCVS at any point. I've heard horror stories from people using it trying to get licenses done in a timely fashion that hadn't already had everything certified with the service. FCVS makes sense if your residency program had everyone submit documents at the beginning of the final year of training or you were really on top of things, otherwise it's just another agency to wait on. I don't believe it will save you any time at this juncture and could potentially delay your licensure application. You can always ask the locum tenens company reps their opinions on the matter. The states where I saw them talk about an FCVS option, usually offered a slightly reduced cost, but they still want their fees for the rest of the work they are doing to review and process your application.

 

[itscomplicated]

because you would have a J O B...really? you are 9 months unemployed and you are being picky?

Okay - I deserve the snark since I was overly sensitive before... But...

did you finish a IM residency and are able to practice? then guess what? work IM until; you can find the job in your specialty...smh? how does that not make sense to you?? sure you could be more selective say the month or 2 out of residency, but now? IM hospitalist locums pays well -easily 130-160/HOUR...an HOUR..one days work and you could pay for practically any license. THEN you have the "luxury" to keep looking for something in your specialty...

and locums companies have people who process the paperwork and have the clout to expedite things since they deal with the medical boards on a daily basis.

If you'll recall from my first response to you today, I mentioned:

Thank you for the locums advice. Honestly didn't know that. Most of my interactions with locums folks have been through recruiters. And, since folks since to insist that the backstory is important, I'll mention that I started out in IM and changed fields. So, my original NPI is listed as IM, and the vast majority of recruiters that contact me directly are approaching me for IM jobs.

So, no... I did *not* finish IM. I changed residencies to a different field. I understand that I would have little difficulty finding a job if I was BE/BC in IM. There are literally thousands of IM jobs. I however, cannot pursue jobs that aren't reasonable for my specialty, right? Am I being that obtuse? I realize I'm trying to be vague to protect my anonymity. But, I feel like people are reading a lot into my vagueness.

 

[mvenus929]

So, no... I did *not* finish IM. I changed residencies to a different field. I understand that I would have little difficulty finding a job if I was BE/BC in IM. There are literally thousands of IM jobs. I however, cannot pursue jobs that aren't reasonable for my specialty, right? Am I being that obtuse? I realize I'm trying to be vague to protect my anonymity. But, I feel like people are reading a lot into my vagueness.

Your wording was vague. Some people complete residency in one field and then switch to another field. Some start out in one residency and halfway through switch to something else. Some start out in a prelim year and then go to something else. You didn't explain which case was yours, hence the question if you finished an IM residency or not.

 

[rokshana]

Your wording was vague. Some people complete residency in one field and then switch to another field. Some start out in one residency and halfway through switch to something else. Some start out in a prelim year and then go to something else. You didn't explain which case was yours, hence the question if you finished an IM residency or not.

exactly...so you can't do hospitalist...fair enough...so not knowing your specialty, its harder to say if there is any locums out there...other than pathology, there is usually something out there so worth looking into...

you could look to see if any one is looking for some one to do physicals say for spots PE, or medicare, etc..if you have had at least a year in clinical medicine you should be able to do this.

 

[Raryn]

I don't get it. You need on the order of $1000 to get a license in any given state. In *nine months* as an educated individual with a bachelors and a doctorate, you haven't thought of a single way to scrape together a grand? I mean honestly, I get it that you must have no family that can possibly help you, but your situation is still flat out absurd. Not to mention you said there's *two* of you. I presume that the second is some kind of SO, so what you're saying is that two presumably reasonably able adult individuals can't scrape together a (very temporary) $1000. In addition, it's taken you the same nine months for you to even think about possible alternatives to just blindly searching for a job and then figuring out licensure.

If you really can't think of any way to get the money as a fully trained subspecialty physician, get the money from a temp job, a payday loan place, a cash advance on a credit card, or anything else. I suppose anything else does also include begging whatever friends/social network you have... but I'd probably look at doing that privately first. Do you have any close friends from residency that *do* have jobs and would be willing to loan you $1k? I know that with almost any of my co-residents, after 3 years in the trenches together, I'd do it.

 

[Law2Doc]

This thread is likely bogus, or OP has some big red flags they aren't saying. But if $for a license is the only thing keeping you from a lucrative job, that's one of the few times racking up high credit card interest might make sense.

 

[caffeinemia]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the world's oldest profession... I'm sure there are employment opportunities everywhere.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Noted. By my calculation, my belief is that I needed $2300 to get all of the ducks in a line. (But, given the trend of the thread, I'm not going to list out each expense because I have a feeling it will get nit-picked, and I'm quite sure that in my situation these are things I needed to have in place - I have been talking to my advisors since well before residency ended, even though apparently I wasn't getting the most complete advice along the way).

But, yes - I will work on our money management because I rarely had over a $1000 in savings, and although I don't think we're more prone to any life catastrophes than anyone else, something always seems to come up to wipe us out. But, yes - I hear that excuse all the time so I realize part of budgeting is making allowance for all of that "life" that is bound to happen...

You should have at least 6-10 months (better if 12 mo) living expense saved up in an account that is LIQUID (better if hybrid account where you can make something like 1%) for these possible catastrophic events. I have 10K and I make 1% on top at the end of the year. It's not much, $100, but it's better than just sitting there not making anything and I can pull $$ from it if I ever need to.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the world's oldest profession... I'm sure there are employment opportunities everywhere.

Much harder for a dude unless he's just looking like Brad Pitt.

 

[itscomplicated]

Your wording was vague. Some people complete residency in one field and then switch to another field. Some start out in one residency and halfway through switch to something else. Some start out in a prelim year and then go to something else. You didn't explain which case was yours, hence the question if you finished an IM residency or not.

Fair enough. I'm sure I was being overly sensitive when I read it, but the wording seemed harsh.

...you could look to see if any one is looking for some one to do physicals say for spots PE, or medicare, etc..if you have had at least a year in clinical medicine you should be able to do this.

Thanks. Reasonable suggestions. I assumed I could work urgent care as soon I was licensed. But, another user PM'ed me about [the place that commonly advertises about Medicare home health assessments]. I had spoken with them before and they did *not* offer to pay my fees for either state we discussed. But, they kept calling me back to see if I had applied yet.

So, I will contact them again to see if they are willing to help out. [And yes.... I clearly understand that otherwise I should do whatever I need to do to pay it myself. Message received, just in case anyone else felt the need to point that out again ]

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I did not use FCVS at any point. I've heard horror stories from people using it trying to get licenses done in a timely fashion that hadn't already had everything certified with the service. FCVS makes sense if your residency program had everyone submit documents at the beginning of the final year of training or you were really on top of things, otherwise it's just another agency to wait on. I don't believe it will save you any time at this juncture and could potentially delay your licensure application. You can always ask the locum tenens company reps their opinions on the matter. The states where I saw them talk about an FCVS option, usually offered a slightly reduced cost, but they still want their fees for the rest of the work they are doing to review and process your application.

I used FCVS while I'm in residency. It was pretty easy, but I stayed on top of them, just like I did with the licensing folks. Stuff that takes 3-6months only took me 1-2 months. Furthermore, follow-up use is super easy. Just click and submit, pay their fee and voila, done.

Of course, I'll have to update that information as soon as I graduate from residency.

 

[itscomplicated]

...I suppose anything else does also include begging whatever friends/social network you have... but I'd probably look at doing that privately first. Do you have any close friends from residency that *do* have jobs and would be willing to loan you $1k? I know that with almost any of my co-residents, after 3 years in the trenches together, I'd do it.

Snipped but yes - all good advice. Just responding that my friend (from residency who I mentioned above) recently did offer to help me out (without me asking directly). I just felt bad about asking for so much money from a single person, even though I intended to pay him back if I borrowed it. For some reason, I thought it would be more palatable to ask for small chunks from more people, considering I have a large network of physician friends (who are obviously better at life than I am). Clearly, that would go over like a lead balloon, based on the feedback here. So, like I said... I guess this thread helped me make a more public ass of myself, so thank you all for that.

 

[itscomplicated]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the world's oldest profession... I'm sure there are employment opportunities everywhere.

Much harder for a dude unless he's just looking like Brad Pitt.

Honestly, I figured that recommendation would be coming, given the way the thread was going That or selling crack. I'm pretty sure I can find legal temp work before it comes to that. Plus I'm not a people person so male escort probably wouldn't suit me very well...

[There I go, being picky again... I'll work on that ]

 

[itscomplicated]

You should have at least 6-10 months (better if 12 mo) living expense saved up in an account that is LIQUID (better if hybrid account where you can make something like 1%) for these possible catastrophic events. I have 10K and I make 1% on top at the end of the year. It's not much, $100, but it's better than just sitting there not making anything and I can pull $$ from it if I ever need to.

Thank you. Sound advice, and will obviously try to do that in the future. I didn't feel like I had time to moonlight during residency but perhaps I should have. I had some consulting side work but wasn't a lot.