Going to India for med school?

[434420]

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I'm a grade 11 student from Canada and recently my uncle suggested that I go back to India for med school to save time and become a better doctor. I understand where he's coming from, because if I go to school there I won't have to do undergrad and that way I'll start working 4 years earlier. And also, since there are so many more patients and India has such a fast pace, I'd be a lot better with clinical skills and dealing with patients. (My uncle can do things in 2 hours that would take his colleagues 8 hours, and he says it's the education difference.) I also really miss India and would love to go back, but I'm not sure if it's the right choice.

If I do go back, I won't be able to get residency in dermatology or radiology here because they rarely even take students from here, right? How long does the USMLE take to write/pass? What is the real difference between staying here and going there? Is 4 years really a big deal or should I just stay here and take the "usual" route? Another thing I'm concerned about is reputation. It seems really shallow but I'm worried that people will think my parents sent me to India because my marks were bad or something (they're not, I'm in the top 10% of my class)... and I don't want that to reflect badly on them because marks are such a huge thing for South Asians. :/ It sounds awful, I know. But reputation shouldn't be an issue, right? Kids who don't get admitted to India's schools go to Ivy League schools instead.

I'd really appreciate any input that you guys could give me. Thanks in advance!

 

[DrYoda]

I can't specifically comment on Canada, but in the US there is discrimination against foreign medical graduates. It can be a challenge for them to get any residency here, derm would be off the table.

I'd be a lot better with clinical skills and dealing with patients. (My uncle can do things in 2 hours that would take his colleagues 8 hours, and he says it's the education difference.) I also really miss India and would love to go back, but I'm not sure if it's the right choice.

Did he walk to school uphill both ways?

 

[CeeEstee0]

Be careful accepting advice from family members. Their intentions are often good, but they tend to have very colored opinion. Also keep in mind that the game has changed SIGNIFICANTLY since your uncle was in the position that you are in. It is incredibly difficult for FMG's to match into the U.S. specialties, let alone the elite ones such as Derm, Radiology, and Ortho etc. I would advise going to undergrad in the US or Canada.

 

[belle54321]

I think the years that you will save by going to an Indian medical school will be offset by the extra numbers of years that you will spend trying to get into a residency in Canada or US. Like others have said, it is not only radiology or derm that will off-limits to you, but even IM or peds residency will be harder to obtain. So, if your grades are good enough for med school in Canada or US, then please don't try to save yourself a few years for a lifetime of regrets.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Do you want to work in India? Then go to medical school in India
Do you want to work in Canada? Then go to a LCME accredited MD school.

It's unlikely you will get a residency in the US after doing your education in India. And your uncle's experience can be dismissed as an anecdote, you'll receive a better and stronger education at a continental medical school in the states an be trained to work in the technology and procedures common here.

 

[434420]

Thanks everyone for your opinions; it's nice to see both sides of the coin.
Actually, my uncle got residency right away and so did his classmates from India. And he finished it in 2008, so it wasn't too long ago. Has a lot changed since then? And people have also told me that residency is easy to get if you have connections, which I do. But about the residencies that are hard to get -- is there any way I can study those later on, whether I stay here or go to India?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It has got worse. A lot worse.

 

[deleted197541]

I can't speak to Indian schools but I can speak, to a certain degree, of Pakistani schools and their graduates' experiences. I personally think it is most definitely NOT a good idea to go overseas for medical school for several reasons. For one, as others have pointed out (and as you seem to know as well), attaining a residency position as an IMG (International Medical Graduate - I don't know if you've heard of the term) is becoming exceedingly difficult. Students from Pakistan and India have a very tough time getting a residency position, especially in something like dermatology or radiology. Usually the IMGs who get positions in these specialties, from what I've seen, are absolutely brilliant and incredibly hard working - but the opportunities also need to be present for them to do research and US/Canadian rotations. Most IMGs need high step scores (95+ from what I've been seen) to attain positions in family medicine, psychiatry, and internal medicine. The more competitive specialties are definitely not practical for the majority of IMGs from Pak/India.

I don't know which Indian medical schools you are wanting to attend (All India Institute?) but there are only certain medical schools that can compare to the rigor of the US medical schools (this is my opinion). Agha Khan University in Pakistan and All India Institute of the Medical Sciences seem to be on par - but my knowledge of these schools is limited. I believe these schools also have strong connections to schools in the US, which helps for clinical rotations.

The other thing about "saving" time needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If your school is not teaching towards the Steps, then you will likely have to take time after graduating to study for them - especially if you don't go to one of the best medical schools in the country. I know Pakistanis who took an additional 3 years to study for the Steps and do a house job (like intern year) in order to have a back-up plan. By the time they start their residency, they have taken 8 years since starting medical school.

Anyway, my recommendation is to stay in Canada, attend a good undergraduate university there or come to the US if you feel like it, and apply to US/Canadian medical schools. Univ. of Toronto is a wonderful institution. You will definitely get the training to become a competent doctor in the US/Canada and you will avoid the hassles IMGs have to endure when applying. I asked myself the same question when I was in high school and, to be honest, I think the best medical students are in the US and Canada. That is just my opinion, however.

 

[SirGecko]

Most IMGs need high step scores (95+ from what I've been seen) to attain positions in family medicine, psychiatry, and internal medicine.

Just fyi no one uses the two digit score to talk about step scores. It means nothing. (it is an artifact of a few state boards requiring a two digit score. The three digit score is the one that people use.

 

[deleted197541]

Just fyi no one uses the two digit score to talk about step scores. It means nothing. (it is an artifact of a few state boards requiring a two digit score. The three digit score is the one that people use.

You're right but several IMG's from Pak/India use it to discuss their scores. That's the only reason why I mentioned it. I guess they see it as a percentile score, even though it isn't.

 

[nonstop]

My parents immigrated from India and on a recent trip to India, I talked to some doctors about how the job market is doing. It's HORRIBLE. Firstly there is an oversupply in the cities and no one wants to work in the villages. So the government keeps graduating many med students hoping that they would practice rural med but all of them just flock to the cities. A doctor starting out (after residency and everything) makes, brace yourself, $12,000 per YEAR. That's low even by Indian standards. And establishing your practice is extremely difficult since, again, there's a oversupply.

My family personally knows doctors/surgeons from India who have emigrated to the Western world and are okay with working as taxi drivers (or other menial jobs) since they make 3-5 times as much as what they would be making practicing in India.

 

[PharMed2016]

My parents immigrated from India and on a recent trip to India, I talked to some doctors about how the job market is doing. It's HORRIBLE. Firstly there is an oversupply in the cities and no one wants to work in the villages. So the government keeps graduating many med students hoping that they would practice rural med but all of them just flock to the cities. A doctor starting out (after residency and everything) makes, brace yourself, $12,000 per YEAR. That's low even by Indian standards. And establishing your practice is extremely difficult since, again, there's a oversupply.

My family personally knows doctors/surgeons from India who have emigrated to the Western world and are okay with working as taxi drivers (or other menial jobs) since they make 3-5 times as much as what they would be making practicing in India.

I have a friend with me in pharmacy school with the same situation. He was a doctor back in India but couldn't get a US residency.

🙁

 

[plumhill]

My parents also encouraged me to go to medical school in India, but I felt awkward about doing so since I'm a total ABCD 🙂 I have one friend going to med school in Pakistan and one in India, and both of them seem to be doing quite well, and really like it there.

Anyhow, it's definitely going to be difficult to get into a residency here, but from what I've seen and heard, you MAY have a better chance at a fellowship here, post-residency. You're going to have to get reaccredited (which can be a total pain). One thing I will say, however, is that the education you receive in India is going to be excellent. Even in non-primary care fields, there is a lot of attention to patient care and conduct, and the Indian doctors who practice in the US are considered to be some of the best (at least around where I live).

 

[Law2Doc]

.... Even in non-primary care fields, there is a lot of attention to patient care and conduct, and the Indian doctors who practice in the US are considered to be some of the best (at least around where I live).

just FYI, medicine is very much a service oriented industry, and if you don't learn how to practice medicine according to the local customs, you will be poorly regarded, no matter how much you know. As a result many foreign educated folks who know a ton of medicine and have a lot if experience in their own country do horribly when they come to the US. I don't know about where you live, but the bias against IMGs when trying to get residencies isn't because they are "some of the best". It's because they are lightyears behind their US counterparts in terms of interfacing with US patients the way that US patients expect, in terms of the kind of healthcare teams we use here, in terms of the hierarchy, the expectations, hospital social cues, etc. Medicine simply isn't the same everywhere. The bugs and meds may be the same but the patient interrelations aren't. It's sort of like taking the worlds best rugby player and sticking him into the NFL. Both games involve tackling and a ball, but being good at one doesn't mean you are good at the other.

 

[A7X]

My parents want me to go to India as well, but I refused lol.

 

[434420]

I'm seriously so confused... everyone has different opinions! I really appreciate your help though, so thanks! =)

Ok, so let's say I DID go to India. Would I save any time? & if I needed to get residency here what would I have to do? EXACTLY. Like, what kinds of marks, what other things... would having an internship in research or working in a hospital (like volunteering) help at all? & would it be at all possible to get into dermatology, radiology, cardiology?

 

[MIAYO]

I'm seriously so confused... everyone has different opinions! I really appreciate your help though, so thanks! =)

Ok, so let's say I DID go to India. Would I save any time? & if I needed to get residency here what would I have to do? EXACTLY. Like, what kinds of marks, what other things... would having an internship in research or working in a hospital (like volunteering) help at all? & would it be at all possible to get into dermatology, radiology, cardiology?

You definitely would not save the 4 years you are imagining because like the others have said you need to study for the boards. No matter how well you perform there is no guarantee that you will be able to come back. Rads and derm are out of the question. You would be lucky to get ANY spot in the USA. Cards is fellowship after IM. I'm not sure for fmgs are looked at regarding fellowships.

 

[45408]

Even in non-primary care fields, there is a lot of attention to patient care and conduct, and the Indian doctors who practice in the US are considered to be some of the best (at least around where I live).

I have not come to the same conclusion, and I would be careful about assuming such things before traipsing to the other side of the planet to go to school, thinking you won't have any trouble coming back to this side without incident.

 

[flatearth22]

India and any other foreign country except those that have strong ties with US schools (like Ben Gurion for example) are probably the worst places to train if you intend on coming back to the US. Even worse than Carib schools because at least Carib schools give you rotations in the US where you learn something about how US healthcare works and can make connections with PD's and such.

US MD > DO >>>>> Carib >>>>> other foreign schools IMO

 

[Wakaaa]

My friend is currently doing this. He is an American Indian, he's bored out of his kind all alone now in India. "I'll start 4 years early." You wont really start that much earlier. Foreign students need to apply, get accepted, and pass board exams to get license. I forgot whether or not a foreign doctor needs to do residency again the U.S. I think it is required of foreign doctors

 

[Valadi]

Coming from a similar background as you I will state resolutely: don't listen to what your family is telling you. I don't know why, but South Asians/Asians love to over-generalize and find 'shortcuts'. Quick lesson, there are no shortcuts.

The path to MD is beaten and well-paved for a reason. Unless you're accepted into a killer foreign school (Oxford, Cambridge) you're going to be fighting an uphill battle that'll make your life very hard, very fast. Take a look into the FMG threads started in the USMLE, General Residency and ERAS/NRMP Match forums. They're not talking about what a cake-walk it is to come back and practice. Maybe it's different in Canada, but I doubt it. The Royal College is just as rigorous as the American Boards so residencies will likely be equally selective and cautious of fruit they haven't tasted before.

Canada has some very highly regarded schools that will allow you to practice there, in the states, or basically anywhere else.

 

[Attending1]

This thread is old, but some honest advice for anybody in similar position as the OP:

If you want to practice in the US, you better go an LCME MD school in the US

Foreign schools may/ may not have better clinical exposure, you may save 2 years whatever, but the truth of the matter is that U.S. residency programs trust LCME AMG grads more than anyone else

As an IMG/ FMG you'd struggle to get a competitive specialty spot - except if you have stellar scores / influential recommendation letters / research etc

A U.S. school will orient you better for US residency

BTW, if you plan to pay for MBBS in India, I've heard that the costs can range upto USD 200000