Going to Medical School After Dental School

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I had a research mentor in college who followed the same path in the late 70s and 80s. 4 years dental, 4 years medical, and then many years of residency and fellowship to become a Head and Neck Surgeon specialized in Oncology. He grew up with a father who was a dentist. He tried so hard to convince me while I was still in college in the late 90s to go to medical school, said he had been to both and had friends in both and the opportunity in medicine was just so much greater. That may have been true in 1998, but I wonder if he would still say the same thing today.
At the end, is that more or less the same thing as doing omfs and doing a H&N fellowship?

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You could study for and take the cbse to bolster your med school app lol
That’s an interesting idea really. I’m sure the CBSE would make the MCAT look silly. Imagine applying to medical school with a 70+ CBSE score. At that point though if someone is at all interested in OMS you might as well do that. The income is too good
 
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Y’all are crazy. If you think dental school is boring, you have no idea how bored you’ll be in med school where half of it is teaching yourself from videos and half is glorified shadowing. Ask dual degree OMFS guys how going through med school is like after finishing dental school.

Most people don’t like dental school. World of private practice is much different. If you really can’t stand it, become an oral pathologist. Or specialize to limit yourself to one aspect of dentistry.
I am not coming from the side of what's more/less boring. I am coming from the fact that unlike many dental students in my class, I actually enjoyed the first two years of biomedical classes more than clinic itself. This is why I say I would align more with medicine because it is more cognitive-based rather than mere handskills. This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does while also having lower salary, and to become an MD anesthesiologist is literally just one more year of residency than dental anesthesiology. So I will essentially go through the same number of years it takes to become an MD- anesthesiologist just without all the extra benefits. This is why I feel like I screwed myself.
 
I am not coming from the side of what's more/less boring. I am coming from the fact that unlike many dental students in my class, I actually enjoyed the first two years of biomedical classes more than clinic itself. This is why I say I would align more with medicine because it is more cognitive-based rather than mere handskills. This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does while also having lower salary, and to become an MD anesthesiologist is literally just one more year of residency than dental anesthesiology. So I will essentially go through the same number of years it takes to become an MD- anesthesiologist just without all the extra benefits. This is why I feel like I screwed myself.
Why do you think the basic sciences in medical school have much to do with clinical medicine? I have heard from many physicians that they don't utilize it and learn their trade in residency.
 
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I am not coming from the side of what's more/less boring. I am coming from the fact that unlike many dental students in my class, I actually enjoyed the first two years of biomedical classes more than clinic itself. This is why I say I would align more with medicine because it is more cognitive-based rather than mere handskills. This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does while also having lower salary, and to become an MD anesthesiologist is literally just one more year of residency than dental anesthesiology. So I will essentially go through the same number of years it takes to become an MD- anesthesiologist just without all the extra benefits. This is why I feel like I screwed myself.
Maybe you did pick the wrong path, but you’re on the path now. Trying to undo the decision would take an entire lifetime to recover from. It’s too much time and debt. And honestly I think you would also find Medicine lacking in day-to-day cognition. Most specialities are working off algorithms.

Look into oral pathology. Or just bite your tongue and treat dentistry like a job like most do.
 
Why do you think the basic sciences in medical school have much to do with clinical medicine? I have heard from many physicians that they don't utilize it and learn their trade in residency.
I am not saying it has to do with clinical medicine, I am just saying medical specialities offer better lifestyle than dentistry
 
Maybe you did pick the wrong path, but you’re on the path now. Trying to undo the decision would take an entire lifetime to recover from. It’s too much time and debt. And honestly I think you would also find Medicine lacking in day-to-day cognition. Most specialities are working off algorithms.

Look into oral pathology. Or just bite your tongue and treat dentistry like a job like most do.
Yeah you're right, do you know much about dental radiology?
 
I am not coming from the side of what's more/less boring. I am coming from the fact that unlike many dental students in my class, I actually enjoyed the first two years of biomedical classes more than clinic itself. This is why I say I would align more with medicine because it is more cognitive-based rather than mere handskills. This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does while also having lower salary, and to become an MD anesthesiologist is literally just one more year of residency than dental anesthesiology. So I will essentially go through the same number of years it takes to become an MD- anesthesiologist just without all the extra benefits. This is why I feel like I screwed myself.
Have you shadowed both an MD and dental anesthesiologist? I’ve spent a significant time with both and I can tell you dental anesthesiologists have a much better lifestyle. They’re not slaves to a hospital system and have very similar incomes.
 
I am actually looking into this seriously lol. Where do you even think I would be able to put that on my med school app?
I would write it in a personal statement and then personally email admissions and state your motivation and that you want the committee to consider your CBSE score
 
I am not coming from the side of what's more/less boring. I am coming from the fact that unlike many dental students in my class, I actually enjoyed the first two years of biomedical classes more than clinic itself. This is why I say I would align more with medicine because it is more cognitive-based rather than mere handskills. This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does while also having lower salary, and to become an MD anesthesiologist is literally just one more year of residency than dental anesthesiology. So I will essentially go through the same number of years it takes to become an MD- anesthesiologist just without all the extra benefits. This is why I feel like I screwed myself.
Dental anesthesiologists are booked out for months. I would not be surprised if they cleared 600-700k.
 
Dental anesthesiologists are booked out for months. I would not be surprised if they cleared 600-700k.
CRNA salaries are like half of that for a good job, I'd be shocked if dental anesthesiologist are anywhere near that. I'm sure it can be done, but that would be the exception. Someone correct me if I'm off the mark here.
 
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I am not saying it has to do with clinical medicine, I am just saying medical specialities offer better lifestyle than dentistry
Really depends on each person's situation. There is as much variance within a specialty as there is between them.
 
CRNA salaries are like half of that for a good job, I'd be shocked if dental anesthesiologist are anywhere near that. I'm sure it can be done, but that would be the exception. Someone correct me if I'm off the mark here.
Do CRNA’s really make 300k? Wow apparently I chose the wrong path…
 
This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does
Out of curiosity, what encroachment are dental anesthesiologists facing? No really, I want to know. Because on the medical side, there is A LOT. I would know, I have worked alongside anesthesiologists and CRNA's for the last several years.
I am just saying medical specialities offer better lifestyle than dentistry
Say what? I've mostly only worked in hospital settings, but most specialties in medicine do not offer a "better" lifestyle than dentistry. If you've never had an exhausting job that didn't require late shifts and weekend shifts, or call, then yes, dentistry may seem like it's not a good gig... because you just may not know any better, you've never had a crappy lifestyle job to begin with. But if you have some perspective on life regarding working in healthcare (usually gained by working said shifts), then I don't think that medicine offers a better lifestyle than dentistry.
Have you shadowed both an MD and dental anesthesiologist? I’ve spent a significant time with both and I can tell you dental anesthesiologists have a much better lifestyle. They’re not slaves to a hospital system and have very similar incomes.
This. I've never met a dental anesthesiologist, but on the medical side, they don't have the nice hours like dentists do.

And all this talk about CRNA as a career option... someone needs to put their foot down and tell you all what a lot of you don't seem to be getting. Everyone looks at CRNA and thinks "okay, this many years of this, this many years of that, and then salary of this, wow that's cool, that could (or could have, in the past) been an option for me..." when that's missing most of the big picture. It's not like going to medical school or dental school and then choosing that specialty. No. You have to go to nursing school FIRST, and be a NURSE FIRST. If you cannot tolerate this fact, then you can't choose CRNA as a viable option. And not just any nurse, you have to be in critical care. This is grueling, back-breaking, emotionally wrenching work a lot of the time, no matter how you look at it. And if you're a brand-new nurse, you more than likely will be working nights. And every other weekend. And some of them take call. And let's not even get into the specialties of ICU that are out there, like surgical or CVICU. Let's pick a medical ICU, shall we? You come in at 7 pm on a Friday night, ready to work the weekend. The nurse on day shift gives you report on your patient. "Dude they've been circling the drain all day, vital signs are this and that, and family wants them to be a full code. Deuces, new guy/gal" and they up and promptly leave. The next 12 hours you don't get a chance to sit, drink a sip of water, piss, or do remotely anything other than a futile attempt to keep this patient alive longer than they have to be, running codes here and there, breaking their ribs as you do compressions, family's there still wanting you and the team to keep going. It is now 7 am on a Saturday morning. Patient didn't survive. You now have to spend an extra 2 hours charting all the things you did, and the dead body paperwork hospitals require you to do. It is 9 am, you are exhausted, thirsty, hungry, and you got to go home to sleep and come back again later tonight for another round. And you have to do this for 1-2 years, 3-5 years at certain competitive CRNA programs, just to have a shot to get in. "Oh that's okay, Chief's Pineapple, I'll work in a PICU instead for my nursing experience to get into CRNA school" you tell me. Your first day off orientation you get a baby for a patient, who's mom is anti-vax, and has spread whooping cough to her baby. Hearing those coughs as that baby can't even breathe... they have videos on YouTube, if you can even stomach watching it. This is life in the ICU. For medicine or dentistry, you can have no healthcare experience whatsoever, and go to college and then become a physician or dentist. Not as a CRNA. You have to do critical care nursing. If you can't do this, you can't do CRNA. Rant over.
 
Out of curiosity, what encroachment are dental anesthesiologists facing? No really, I want to know. Because on the medical side, there is A LOT. I would know, I have worked alongside anesthesiologists and CRNA's for the last several years.

Say what? I've mostly only worked in hospital settings, but most specialties in medicine do not offer a "better" lifestyle than dentistry. If you've never had an exhausting job that didn't require late shifts and weekend shifts, or call, then yes, dentistry may seem like it's not a good gig... because you just may not know any better, you've never had a crappy lifestyle job to begin with. But if you have some perspective on life regarding working in healthcare (usually gained by working said shifts), then I don't think that medicine offers a better lifestyle than dentistry.

This. I've never met a dental anesthesiologist, but on the medical side, they don't have the nice hours like dentists do.

And all this talk about CRNA as a career option... someone needs to put their foot down and tell you all what a lot of you don't seem to be getting. Everyone looks at CRNA and thinks "okay, this many years of this, this many years of that, and then salary of this, wow that's cool, that could (or could have, in the past) been an option for me..." when that's missing most of the big picture. It's not like going to medical school or dental school and then choosing that specialty. No. You have to go to nursing school FIRST, and be a NURSE FIRST. If you cannot tolerate this fact, then you can't choose CRNA as a viable option. And not just any nurse, you have to be in critical care. This is grueling, back-breaking, emotionally wrenching work a lot of the time, no matter how you look at it. And if you're a brand-new nurse, you more than likely will be working nights. And every other weekend. And some of them take call. And let's not even get into the specialties of ICU that are out there, like surgical or CVICU. Let's pick a medical ICU, shall we? You come in at 7 pm on a Friday night, ready to work the weekend. The nurse on day shift gives you report on your patient. "Dude they've been circling the drain all day, vital signs are this and that, and family wants them to be a full code. Deuces, new guy/gal" and they up and promptly leave. The next 12 hours you don't get a chance to sit, drink a sip of water, piss, or do remotely anything other than a futile attempt to keep this patient alive longer than they have to be, running codes here and there, breaking their ribs as you do compressions, family's there still wanting you and the team to keep going. It is now 7 am on a Saturday morning. Patient didn't survive. You now have to spend an extra 2 hours charting all the things you did, and the dead body paperwork hospitals require you to do. It is 9 am, you are exhausted, thirsty, hungry, and you got to go home to sleep and come back again later tonight for another round. And you have to do this for 1-2 years, 3-5 years at certain competitive CRNA programs, just to have a shot to get in. "Oh that's okay, Chief's Pineapple, I'll work in a PICU instead for my nursing experience to get into CRNA school" you tell me. Your first day off orientation you get a baby for a patient, who's mom is anti-vax, and has spread whooping cough to her baby. Hearing those coughs as that baby can't even breathe... they have videos on YouTube, if you can even stomach watching it. This is life in the ICU. For medicine or dentistry, you can have no healthcare experience whatsoever, and go to college and then become a physician or dentist. Not as a CRNA. You have to do critical care nursing. If you can't do this, you can't do CRNA. Rant over.


I agree with everything you are saying, I looked into doing the CRNA route prior to Dental/Med and OMFS and decided it wasn’t an easier path by any means to achieve what I wanted.

That being said this rant seems a little out of place because I dont think anyone was really downplaying CRNA as being tough, just as a comparison point. Its definitely not a viable option for the person wanting to switch.
 
That being said this rant seems a little out of place
Sure, I may have been a little over the top in order to prove my point, but I see a lot of posts on this forum regarding other career choice options, and people will just throw out CRNA as one of the options. But it just irks me a little, that it's simply not that "easy" to just consider it as a choice like any other. For example, we all know the costs of dental school nowadays, and people will just throw out the national scholarship or HPSP... as if one can just sign up for those willy-nilly, that they are ready for the taking, and that they are "just" financial options, when really they have life-altering things attached to them (being in the military and subject to the government's orders or having to relocate to a place that they have no desire to move to, like for the national one).

There's ramifications to these career choices and financial options, and I don't see that aspect stressed as much as it should, in my opinion.
 
I am not coming from the side of what's more/less boring. I am coming from the fact that unlike many dental students in my class, I actually enjoyed the first two years of biomedical classes more than clinic itself. This is why I say I would align more with medicine because it is more cognitive-based rather than mere handskills. This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does while also having lower salary, and to become an MD anesthesiologist is literally just one more year of residency than dental anesthesiology. So I will essentially go through the same number of years it takes to become an MD- anesthesiologist just without all the extra benefits. This is why I feel like I screwed myself.

That's a sour attitude to have toward dental anesthesiology. If you are serious about it, you need to do more research into the field. They are in quite high demand. They create their own jobs so you're not going to find ads for practices and hospitals trying to hire anesthesiologists if that's where

Have things changed? I thought dental anesthesiology was 2 years of residency and medical was 4 years.

There are other specialties that are more cognitive based with less emphasis on hand skills. Orthodontics actually is quite cognitive but not on a biomedical level. Other fields with even less hand skills would be Oral Radiology which someone mentioned, Oral Pathology, Oral Medicine, and the giant cluster that is TMD. TMD patients are everywhere and almost no one wants to touch them because it's like the lost specialty in between dentistry and medicine.
 
Why not oral pathology residency??!
 
Why not oral pathology residency??!
Not interested in pathology and looking at histology slides all day...

Out of curiosity, what encroachment are dental anesthesiologists facing? No really, I want to know. Because on the medical side, there is A LOT. I would know, I have worked alongside anesthesiologists and CRNA's for the last several years.
By encroachment I mean CRNA's that do not work in hospitals and are in states that allow them to administer anesthesia without supervision. Also I literally shadowed a dental sedation center with a MD anesthesiologist running the sedation there. That is not to say every dental center will have them but just wanted to point that out...

Also I really appreciated you sharing that perspective on the CRNA route...
Dental anesthesiologists are booked out for months. I would not be surprised if they cleared 600-700k.
Can anyone confirm this?
That's a sour attitude to have toward dental anesthesiology. If you are serious about it, you need to do more research into the field. They are in quite high demand. They create their own jobs so you're not going to find ads for practices and hospitals trying to hire anesthesiologists if that's where
Sorry didn't mean to put that sour attitude as I really am considering the DA route, I was just wondering whether or not it will become the same thing as general dentists in 10 years in regards to saturation aspect on top of other professions (MD anesthesia, CRNA) that are able to work at dental practices
 
Not interested in pathology and looking at histology slides all day...


By encroachment I mean CRNA's that do not work in hospitals and are in states that allow them to administer anesthesia without supervision. Also I literally shadowed a dental sedation center with a MD anesthesiologist running the sedation there. That is not to say every dental center will have them but just wanted to point that out...

Also I really appreciated you sharing that perspective on the CRNA route...

Can anyone confirm this?

Sorry didn't mean to put that sour attitude as I really am considering the DA route, I was just wondering whether or not it will become the same thing as general dentists in 10 years in regards to saturation aspect on top of other professions (MD anesthesia, CRNA) that are able to work at dental practices
This is what other dental specialists have told me. However I do know a periodontist who would only use an MD for anesthesia because he thought a DA didn’t have the same life saving ability. I think that’s ignorance on his part. Anytime you have super specialized skills you’re going to make a bleep ton of money. There’s a reason there is a demand for DAs and why the programs exist. DAs are a small community you need to get in touch with people in their network and ask the right questions
 
This is why I am looking into dental anesthesiology. However, the thing that frustrates me is that it faces a lot more mid-level encroachment than medical anesthesiology does
In the US, CRNAs administer the majority of general anesthesia when compared to MD anesthesiologists. This is a fact.



 
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I'm really not trying to be toxic so I apologize if I am coming across that way with the doubts I have, I'm not trying to be negative and actually really appreciate everyone's input
Honestly if dentistry is not your calling and you don't want to be a dentist, there is nothing in the world that can stop you from becoming a doctor. Best of luck!
 
Sorry yappy, but I just can't resist myself...

Look dentalchamp, I told you on another thread how to embrace the suck as best you could with your schooling. If you can't do that, ain't nothing stopping you from dropping out, taking the MCAT, doing the process to get into medical school, and so on. And yes, I'm sure DA's make a good amount of money (citation needed), especially since there aren't as many DA residency programs to begin with (citation needed), and if you're like the traveling ortho who can go to far-flung places, I am positive you can make exceptional bank (also a conjecture).

Regarding anesthesia as a medical profession, they have encroachment issues, sure, but a lot of big cities also need a lot of anesthesiologists. This is because the major private practice groups have sold out to private equity (they're everywhere), and a lot of them have quit due to the BS of dealing with them. Where to, I can't say, but my hospital group lost a lot of anesthesiologists from the group that staffed our OR's. I would be surprised if the OMFS residents on this forum around the country haven't seen something to this effect, but I can't say for sure if academic centers are facing the same issues. Regardless, if you want to do anesthesia as a MD/DO, you definitely need to do your homework on your free time.
 
Sorry yappy, but I just can't resist myself...

Look dentalchamp, I told you on another thread how to embrace the suck as best you could with your schooling. If you can't do that, ain't nothing stopping you from dropping out, taking the MCAT, doing the process to get into medical school, and so on. And yes, I'm sure DA's make a good amount of money (citation needed), especially since there aren't as many DA residency programs to begin with (citation needed), and if you're like the traveling ortho who can go to far-flung places, I am positive you can make exceptional bank (also a conjecture).

Regarding anesthesia as a medical profession, they have encroachment issues, sure, but a lot of big cities also need a lot of anesthesiologists. This is because the major private practice groups have sold out to private equity (they're everywhere), and a lot of them have quit due to the BS of dealing with them. Where to, I can't say, but my hospital group lost a lot of anesthesiologists from the group that staffed our OR's. I would be surprised if the OMFS residents on this forum around the country haven't seen something to this effect, but I can't say for sure if academic centers are facing the same issues. Regardless, if you want to do anesthesia as a MD/DO, you definitely need to do your homework on your free time.
Quote by Mark Manson who gives amazing perspectives. Another amazing person Emmanuel Acho would say to do what you're good at and or like to do and the "opportunities will find you."
 
Not interested in pathology and looking at histology slides all day...


By encroachment I mean CRNA's that do not work in hospitals and are in states that allow them to administer anesthesia without supervision. Also I literally shadowed a dental sedation center with a MD anesthesiologist running the sedation there. That is not to say every dental center will have them but just wanted to point that out...

Also I really appreciated you sharing that perspective on the CRNA route...

Can anyone confirm this?

Sorry didn't mean to put that sour attitude as I really am considering the DA route, I was just wondering whether or not it will become the same thing as general dentists in 10 years in regards to saturation aspect on top of other professions (MD anesthesia, CRNA) that are able to work at dental practices
Do you REALLY want to administer anesthesia the rest of your life? I get it. You can make more money than a dentist. Not to step on CRNA, DA or medical anesthesiologists .... but I just don't see that kind of work as fulfilling. Just my opinion. I originally wanted to go into medicine. But I just didn't want to deal with life and death scenarios nor did I want to spend my time in a hospital setting.

Dentists build things. They improve the lives of many patients. I get it. Working as a dentist in a saturated area can make you feel like a dental technician. But having a nice private practice in a rural or semi rural area helping patients can be very fulfilling.

Or consider a dental specialty.

Just my opinion.
 
Do CRNA’s really make 300k? Wow apparently I chose the wrong path…

No autonomy in CRNA.

Dentistry has a great autonomy. You can choose to not get out of bed tomorrow. CRNA must come to work rain or shine. What price would you put on that?

The grass is always greener on the other side.
 
Do you REALLY want to administer anesthesia the rest of your life? I get it. You can make more money than a dentist. Not to step on CRNA, DA or medical anesthesiologists .... but I just don't see that kind of work as fulfilling. Just my opinion. I originally wanted to go into medicine. But I just didn't want to deal with life and death scenarios nor did I want to spend my time in a hospital setting.

Dentists build things. They improve the lives of many patients. I get it. Working as a dentist in a saturated area can make you feel like a dental technician. But having a nice private practice in a rural or semi rural area helping patients can be very fulfilling.

Or consider a dental specialty.

Just my opinion.
In my personal preference I find it fulfilling to provide services to those who usually can't get it at a normal dental office setting. For example, kids who are very hard to work with, special needs, or adults with bad phobias. Also since I started clinic in dental school, I find myself very exhausted from talking to many people everyday... again thats just me
 
Sure, I may have been a little over the top in order to prove my point, but I see a lot of posts on this forum regarding other career choice options, and people will just throw out CRNA as one of the options. But it just irks me a little, that it's simply not that "easy" to just consider it as a choice like any other. For example, we all know the costs of dental school nowadays, and people will just throw out the national scholarship or HPSP... as if one can just sign up for those willy-nilly, that they are ready for the taking, and that they are "just" financial options, when really they have life-altering things attached to them (being in the military and subject to the government's orders or having to relocate to a place that they have no desire to move to, like for the national one).

There's ramifications to these career choices and financial options, and I don't see that aspect stressed as much as it should, in my opinion.
Everything you've said I couldn't agree more. My sister is a CRNA and believe me, it was a long road and she was top of her class from nursing school, may have been top 5 with a lot of accolades. Was an ICU nurse for 5 years and in that time I really urged her to consider CRNA. Glad she finally did it. Let it be known...CRNA's do very well...I am in residency in NYC and I think our CRNA's at my hospital prob do make 250+ and maybe 300. I can tell you my sister is right at the 200 mark right out of school in a more rural hospital with great benefits in SC. She will have a fantastic life and make more than enough money to live comfortably and I am most certainly happy for her, she earned it. With that but said....anesthesiologist make more (if we are looking straight at just income). I've heard from so many people that say otherwise, could they potentially make more than an anesthesiologist? Sure, I suppose they can. Also, depending on the state, they have to work under an MD (it varies amongst state regulations and laws).
 
At the end of the day, as long as you can make enough money to live whatever you consider to be a comfortable lifestyle and you get personal and professional fulfillment from it, that should be your goal. I used to have a six-figure job in another state, and then I moved to another state with a much lower paying job. But I'm happier here. Even though at the higher-paying job I also lived in a much better area on top of it, I didn't much care for my job, if I had to be honest. Now I make less money and to be frank, I don't care for my new location at all. But nonetheless I'm happier here and feel somewhat more fulfilled. That's worth it for me.

People like Cold Front and TanMan, for example, wouldn't be happy unless they had their own autonomy, to let them succeed however they best saw fit. A CRNA can make good income, especially in expensive cities (unlike dentistry, which has to deal with saturation and such, nurses usually make more money in the expensive cities compared to being a nurse in more rural areas). But you are still an employee, a cog in the machine. Some people won't find that fulfilling no matter the good wages. It's all up to the individual person to decide what is best for them.
 
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