Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention (updated for 2021)

[Potential_Second_Run177]

Hi everyone here,

I came to this thread on advice from a friend of mine, and want to pursue an MD or DO while having a low uGPA following a 2 year DIY postbacc.

I'm a mixed ORM/ORM, graduated from a small liberal arts school with a dismal 2.69 GPA and gen bio degree. I have a serious chronic illness (undiagnosed at the time) and made my own mistakes as well. Following graduation, I received a diagnosis and started on a medicine/therapy regimen that completely changed everything. I spent 2 years recovering/saving/working before returning for a DIY postbacc/second bachelor's @ my state's flagship school.

Transferred the few classes I did well in and have a post-bacc 3.7 GPA w/2 semesters to go. Took prereqs and many upper-division courses: dev bio, genetics, biochem, anatomy, biostats, biological modeling, cell/mol bio, physics, honors thesis, etc. I'm also working in a pretty well-known research lab doing computational genetics research where I received an HHMI grant, published a preprint, and presented at a couple conferences under my PI's guidance.

I have ok community service, pretty great research experience, not a lot of clinical service but I was an EMT several years back. Save for the MCAT, are there any factors I should seriously focus on to help with my chances of a potential acceptance?

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[Goro]

Hi everyone here,

I came to this thread on advice from a friend of mine, and want to pursue an MD or DO while having a low uGPA following a 2 year DIY postbacc.

I'm a mixed ORM/ORM, graduated from a small liberal arts school with a dismal 2.69 GPA and gen bio degree. I have a serious chronic illness (undiagnosed at the time) and made my own mistakes as well. Following graduation, I received a diagnosis and started on a medicine/therapy regimen that completely changed everything. I spent 2 years recovering/saving/working before returning for a DIY postbacc/second bachelor's @ my state's flagship school.

Transferred the few classes I did well in and have a post-bacc 3.7 GPA w/2 semesters to go. Took prereqs and many upper-division courses: dev bio, genetics, biochem, anatomy, biostats, biological modeling, cell/mol bio, physics, honors thesis, etc. I'm also working in a pretty well-known research lab doing computational genetics research where I received an HHMI grant, published a preprint, and presented at a couple conferences under my PI's guidance.

I have ok community service, pretty great research experience, not a lot of clinical service but I was an EMT several years back. Save for the MCAT, are there any factors I should seriously focus on to help with my chances of a potential acceptance?

Get in some more clinical experience either now or when you finish your post-bac work.

 

[Scarlet>Fire]

Thank you Goro for the wonderful guide and advice.

To those wondering if this is still possible, I'd encourage you to make that decision yourself. It's your life to live, and there are some pretty incredible reinvention stories out there.

 

[medschoolhopefuI]

Hello,

I have a couple of questions regarding reinvention.

For context I am in my last semester at a T10 university with a GPA of 3.32, my AMCA sGPA will likely be lower, at around 3.0 because I retook 3 classes that I had failed in freshman/sophmore year. I have an upward trend with my last 3 semesters being 3.6+ and I am FLI/URM with good ECs but I know the low grades are hard to overcome so I am planning on doing a DIY post-bacc.

I have a post-grad clinical research position at the university I am graduating from so I would only be able to take 2 classes per semester and money would be a concern. My question is whether I could take those classes in an online format (no pre-reqs) or is that looked down upon. Also, my pre-professional advisor is telling me I should try to bring my undergrad GPA up to a 3.6 but that would take ~50 credits (best case) and I just don't think that's feasible for me.

 

[Goro]

Hello,

I have a couple of questions regarding reinvention.

For context I am in my last semester at a T10 university with a GPA of 3.32, my AMCA sGPA will likely be lower, at around 3.0 because I retook 3 classes that I had failed in freshman/sophmore year. I have an upward trend with my last 3 semesters being 3.6+ and I am FLI/URM with good ECs but I know the low grades are hard to overcome so I am planning on doing a DIY post-bacc.

I have a post-grad clinical research position at the university I am graduating from so I would only be able to take 2 classes per semester and money would be a concern. My question is whether I could take those classes in an online format (no pre-reqs) or is that looked down upon. Also, my pre-professional advisor is telling me I should try to bring my undergrad GPA up to a 3.6 but that would take ~50 credits (best case) and I just don't think that's feasible for me.

Since loads od schools (including med schools ) are still online, your going online won't be a problem.

 

[driidrii]

@Goro I have a couple questions regarding myself and reinvention.

NY Resident

USC Graduate

Gender: Male

Ethnicity: African American (Caribbean)

Major: Human Biology
Cumulative GPA: 3.33 (freshman year 2.575, sophomore year 3.471, junior year 3.687, senior year 3.62)
AMCAS science gpa: 3.14 (freshman year 1.900, sophomore year 3.370, junior year 3.488, senior year 3.66)

MCAT Score(s): Taking 6/16

Research Experience: 1 year of Biomechanics Research (330 hrs), ranging from assisting D1 Track and Field Athletes during Olympic Qualifiers to assisting Graduate Researchers with their Thesis.

Employment History:

Clinical Experience (paid or volunteer):
Direct Support Professional: 2400hrs
Specimen Collector at a Chemical Dependency Clinic: 720hrs
Student Athletic Medicine Assistant: 720hrs

Non-Clinical Experience (paid):
Library Student Assistant: 117hrs
760 hrs across as Mentor/Advisor/Tutor/Teaching Assistant to 7th/8th graders

Physician Shadowing: 24 hours (MD- Family Medicine)

Non-Clinical Volunteering:
126hrs as a Mentor/Advisor/Tutor to local High School Students

Other Extracurricular Activities:
Eboard on a Pre-Health Club

For a gap year job, I plan to work as a clinical research coordinator or a research associate.

Here are my questions.

1. I plan on taking the MCAT for June 16. I haven't started the AAMC FLs yet but based on my Kaplan FL averages I'm in the 505-510 range. Should I still apply this cycle despite my scores being released July 17th?

2. While I am a NY resident, I went to high school in CT for all four years. Furthermore, I went to school in CA and filed taxes there as well. Would I qualify for IS bias for both of those states?

3. Even though I don't have substantial volunteer experience, I do have 760 hrs where I was an advisor, mentor, tutor to 7th and 8th graders over the summer to prepare them for high school. Will this be seen favorably?

 

[Goro]

Here are my questions.

1. I plan on taking the MCAT for June 16. I haven't started the AAMC FLs yet but based on my Kaplan FL averages I'm in the 505-510 range. Should I still apply this cycle despite my scores being released July 17th?

Apply to a throwaway school to get verified. Based upon your GPAs, have some DO schools on your eventual list. Appl;y once you have your MCAT score.

2. While I am a NY resident, I went to high school in CT for all four years. Furthermore, I went to school in CA and filed taxes there as well. Would I qualify for IS bias for both of those states?

NY: Yes
CT: probably
CA: No

3. Even though I don't have substantial volunteer experience, I do have 760 hrs where I was an advisor, mentor, tutor to 7th and 8th graders over the summer to prepare them for high school. Will this be seen favorably?

Were they underprivileged children?
For your gap year, suggest continue volunteering, especially with communities of color.

 

[driidrii]

Apply to a throwaway school to get verified. Based upon your GPAs, have some DO schools on your eventual list. Appl;y once you have your MCAT score.

NY: Yes
CT: probably
CA: No

Were they underprivileged children?
For your gap year, suggest continue volunteering, especially with communities of color.

Yes they were underpriviledged children of color in both instances

 

[Goro]

Yes they were underpriviledged children of color in both instances

You're good to go in that area, then

 

[swim97]

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro. Here's my transcript.

View attachment 354882


Male URM, Dominican, LOW-SES, first-gen. No MCAT yet. Dealt with addiction, depression, anxiety and a few other things throughout undergrad. It was a ****show but I am glad I am still alive.

I did a career-change to Electrical Engineering because I ruined my post-bacc (Yr 5) with a medical withdrawal. I did not want to risk an SMP either given my withdrawals. I relocated to NYC where I had access to therapy and that completely changed my life. If I wanted to start over again for DO or even state-MD what should I do about my GPA? I have heard some med schools do consider the graduate degree. Should I target those?

View attachment 354883

The MD schools will not count your MS GPA.
Without an MCAT score, it's a fool's errand to make lists.

You're OK with DO, they count any MS degree GPA

But you do need to prove that you can handle med school. I don't see that proof yet. Hence, do a DIY post-bac or an SMP.

 

[Themanso88]

@Goro have you heard of Texas academic fresh start, deletion of classes 10 years or older. My case is different from most people ,I got kick out of school back in 2012 and returned back in 2016 finished with a 2.92 in 2018. My goal is to go to Texas this summer become a resident and then attend college during the fall of 2023. I have to repeated a few science classes. I am not sure how I will do a DIY post BAC because you have to have a major to access upper levels courses.l want to increase GPA be well prepared for the MCAT i sacrificed a lot of years and want to do this right
I have to repeat
Gen chem 1,2
Ochem1
Physics 1
might retake bio 1,2 and biochem 1, because I did not learn it well
here my stats
Im a 33 y.o black male
2.92 B.S in chemistry
8 hours of shadowing EM physician( my goal is to get over 1000s with different specialties)
5000 hours of EMT B
6000 Hours of CNA
1.5 year of working as a supervisor at COVID-19 testing sites.

 

[jhmmd]

@Goro have you heard of Texas academic fresh start, deletion of classes 10 years or older. My case is different from most people ,I got kick out of school back in 2012 and returned back in 2016 finished with a 2.92 in 2018. My goal is to go to Texas this summer become a resident and then attend college during the fall of 2023. I have to repeated a few science classes. I am not sure how I will do a DIY post BAC because you have to have a major to access upper levels courses.l want to increase GPA be well prepared for the MCAT i sacrificed a lot of years and want to do this right
I have to repeat
Gen chem 1,2
Ochem1
Physics 1
might retake bio 1,2 and biochem 1, because I did not learn it well
here my stats
Im a 33 y.o black male
2.92 B.S in chemistry
8 hours of shadowing EM physician( my goal is to get over 1000s with different specialties)
5000 hours of EMT B
6000 Hours of CNA
1.5 year of working as a supervisor at COVID-19 testing sites.

When did you take the bolded classes? Have you taken a practice MCAT test yet? Worrying about your GPA is just as important as worrying about your MCAT score.

Some of the classes you are re-taking are very basic classes (bio 1, bio 2, gen chem 1, gen chem 2, etc.) and I have to say that this worries me. These are not nec. weeder classes like ochem 1 & 2. Unless you have a very compelling reason for doing so poorly in these rudimentary classes (and you have remedied the problem), then I would say that you should re-evaluate.

I wish you the best of luck with everything.

 

[KnightDoc]

@Goro have you heard of Texas academic fresh start, deletion of classes 10 years or older.

This has nothing to do with AMCAS or AACOMAS. It will allow you to start a new TX UG degree without the baggage of your old grades, but med schools require all coursework to be reported. They don't offer fresh starts, and failure to disclose will doom your application when they discover your old coursework in the clearinghouse.

So, basically, do whatever you need to do to reinvent yourself, but forget the possibility of making believe the old grades don't exist, unless the school will allow you to retroactively withdraw after all these years. Good luck!!

 

[Themanso88]

When did you take the bolded classes? Have you taken a practice MCAT test yet? Worrying about your GPA is just as important as worrying about your MCAT score.

Some of the classes you are re-taking are very basic classes (bio 1, bio 2, gen chem 1, gen chem 2, etc.) and I have to say that this worries me. These are not nec. weeder classes like ochem 1 & 2. Unless you have a very compelling reason for doing so poorly in these rudimentary classes (and you have remedied the problem), then I would say that you should re-evaluate.

I wish you the best of luck with everything.

The bolder classes was taken in 2007 to 2010
I have to repeat those because it's 10 years old once I do fresh start
Bio 1 and 2 and biochem was taken 2016 and 2018
Yeah those classes I didn't do bad in but it's just that I forgot a lot

 

[Themanso88]

This has nothing to do with AMCAS or AACOMAS. It will allow you to start a new TX UG degree without the baggage of your old grades, but med schools require all coursework to be reported. They don't offer fresh starts, and failure to disclose will doom your application when they discover your old coursework in the clearinghouse.

So, basically, do whatever you need to do to reinvent yourself, but forget the possibility of making believe the old grades don't exist, unless the school will allow you to retroactively withdraw after all these years. Good luck!!

Thanks I spoke with someone at TDMSAS
I can only apply to Texas med schools
And they will look at the new GPA

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks I spoke with someone at TDMSAS
I can only apply to Texas med schools
And they will look at the new GPA

Since you are not already a TX resident, I urge you to think long and hard, and weigh the costs and benefits of doing this. The coursework is so old that it is unlikely that it will kill you, no matter how bad it is, if you successfully reinvent yourself, even without the fresh start. Weigh this against the fact that TX residents have below average med school acceptance rates.

Even though TX residents receive a huge advantage IS as compared to OOS applicants to TX schools (due to TX schools being required to enroll at least 90% of the class IS), they still only matriculate 27.3% IS, and a miserable 5.5% OOS, for a below average combined 32.8% acceptance rate. The average is 36.3%.

Given these numbers, it hardly seems worth disrupting your life just to chase the fresh start (unless you were relocating to TX anyway), but, of course, YMMV. Good luck!

 

[jhmmd]

The bolder classes was taken in 2007 to 2010
I have to repeat those because it's 10 years old once I do fresh start
Bio 1 and 2 and biochem was taken 2016 and 2018
Yeah those classes I didn't do bad in but it's just that I forgot a lot

...well if you did do badly in these courses and need to re-take them, then it's time that you address the problem. You are not going to excel unless you figure out why it was a flop the first time around. It's unclear from your post if you simply have a bad memory or didn't study hard enough. Maybe try working with your university's counseling center. Sometimes these places offer things like free tutoring and academic counseling. Again I wish you the best with this.

 

[Themanso88]

Since you are not already a TX resident, I urge you to think long and hard, and weigh the costs and benefits of doing this. The coursework is so old that it is unlikely that it will kill you, no matter how bad it is, if you successfully reinvent yourself, even without the fresh start. Weigh this against the fact that TX residents have below average med school acceptance rates.

Even though TX residents receive a huge advantage IS as compared to OOS applicants to TX schools (due to TX schools being required to enroll at least 90% of the class IS), they still only matriculate 27.3% IS, and a miserable 5.5% OOS, for a below average combined 32.8% acceptance rate. The average is 36.3%.

Given these numbers, it hardly seems worth disrupting your life just to chase the fresh start (unless you were relocating to TX anyway), but, of course, YMMV. Good luck!

I like your advice
But my thing is if I can't really get into med school I can do PA school if I can't do PA school I'll just get a masters in something. The thing is my overall my GPA is so screwed up I can't even go to grad school.
Once you do fresh restart post secondary schools grad school ,pharmacy school, dental school will look at the newly established GPA, But that only applies for schools in Texas. Yeah I'm relocating.

 

[Themanso88]

...well if you did do badly in these courses and need to re-take them, then it's time that you address the problem. You are not going to excel unless you figure out why it was a flop the first time around. It's unclear from your post if you simply have a bad memory or didn't study hard enough. Maybe try working with your university's counseling center. Sometimes these places offer things like free tutoring and academic counseling. Again I wish you the best with this.

Yeah I did poorly my first few years back in 2007 to 2012 I couldn't pass anything not even liberal study classes. I eventually I got kicked out, but I came back to school in 2016 and I started passing multiple science classes. I should've stayed an extra two years and took advanced classes but money was very tight so I hurried up and graduated. I had to work full-time job and had to pay for school because I maxed out financial aid so grades that could've been high became B's and C's
I have a trend my grades we're getting better every semester.
I finally learn how to study effectively
I tried studying for the MCAT but it was impossible. I realized it was a lot of stuff that I didn't know so I started taking online refresher class Chad videos to relearn chemistry and organic chemistry....
Basically I know when back to does classes it won't be challenging.

 

[wannabe_doc_]

school list advice? have I done enough to improve?

what med schools would you recommend?
mcat 517

stem gpas

Freshman	2.25 (16) credits
Sophomore	4.00 (4)
Junior	3.75 (16)
Senior	3.80 (20)
Postbac	3.61 (52) 3.7 last 44 credits

regular GPAs

Freshman	2.50 (24)
Sophomore	3.75 (16)
Junior	3.57 (28)
Senior	3.73 (44)
Postbac	3.61 (52)

over 2000 clinical hours
current clinical research RA, no pubs, over 2000 hours research
over 2000 hours volunteering
white female not disadvantaged
nontrad youth mental health--> premed, graduated undergrad in 2017

 

[Goro]

school list advice? have I done enough to 2000 clinical hours
current clinical research RA, no pubs, over 2000 hours research
over 2000 hours volunteering
white female not disadvantaged
nontrad youth mental health--> premed, graduated undergrad in 2017

You've done a great job at reinvention!
I suggest
Mayo
Emory
Hofstra
BU
Tufts
Gtown
Temple (maybe)
Drexel
Albany
Netter
NYMC
GWU
SLU
U VM
CREIGHTON
SETON hall
NovaMD
TCU.UNT
Your state schools
Gtown
U MIAMI
WAKE
ROSY FRANKLIN
RUSH
LOYOLA
Any DO school except those on my Bad Boy list, and those new ones that haven't graduated a class yet.

 

[shikshack]

So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling.

But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take both time and money. And always remember that you’re in a marathon now, not a sprint. The following advice holds true for people considering MD and DO. I strongly recommend that you keep both in mind, and the latter is more tolerant of reinvention.

EDIT: An even better summary to the next paragraph is provided by the wise HomeSkool here: Simple rules for retaking courses

Here’s what you need to do :

a) Contact your UG school's Registrar and see if you can get retroactive withdrawals for the failed classes. This is a thing at some schools and the worst that they'll tell you is "no".

b) IF you have F/D/C- grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). In addition, many schools require a C or higher grade in pre-reqs. Naturally, this will vary from school to school.

If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. There is no need to retake a C unless you are very weak on the material and you need it for MCAT. Never, ever retake a B or B-.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

c) There are MD schools that reward reinvention. All DO schools do. The DO path will be a little easier, but both still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

d) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level (for some people this is mathematically impossible), but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum. So do not worry that your cGPA will be 3.2 upon applying after finishing your post-bac/GPA. Rising GPA trends are always looked highly upon, and many med schools weight the last 2-3 years more than the entire cGPA.

e) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school

5) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

As to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP:

A formal post-bac program is geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well. You get faculty guidance in this and some programs seem to be feeders to med schools for non-trad students. They will cost more though.

Now, you can do the same thing on your own by simply taking continuing education courses at any nearby college. A four year school will be preferable to a community college (CC), but if costs are an issue, then a CC will be OK. This path is what is known here in SDN as the “DIY post-bac.” Costs will be less, but there’s no guidance.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Epidemiology
Histology
Immunology
Medical and/or Molecular Genetics
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

An SMP (special master’s program) is one that offers medical school classes, or material that’s taught in medical school. There are some two year SMPs, but I don’t see any advantage to these over one year programs.

These can be a backdoor into med school, and you get real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty.

The down side is that the tuition will be more considerable. You may also have to relocate in order to attend one. Also, if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has an added-value component, like some research venue. Thus, SMPs are more high risk, but also high reward.

I don't give recommendations as to individual SMPs or post-bac programs, because they're pretty much a dime-a-dozen.. You should go for:

1) the cheapest tuition
2) a program given at a host medical school
3) is one year in length
4) has the best linkage deal.

One final word of warning: Do NOT take the MCAT while enrolled in an SMP. We’ve seen students do this, and it leads to disaster. Some programs require an MCAT, so that solves the problem (although they may have a minimum score requirement!).

And remember, med schools aren’t going anywhere, and in fact, by the time you apply, several more will have opened their doors.

Good luck!

Hello @Goro, need your advice please. Thanks for this thread.

• I did Bachelors in Cell bio and Neuroscience with 3.0 cgpa and 511 mcat. One F and 3 C's
• Worked as a CNA for 6 months
• Shadowed a surgeon/oncologist, pediatrician and a cardiologist -almost 200 hours
• Research scholar article in the process of publication
• Research intern for 3 years
• Did tutoring at elementary school- 6 weeks
• Volunteer work at soup kitchen, hospital, global brigades, etc.
• Accepted to MHS in Microbiology and Immunology @Johns Hopkins and ACHS @ Temple

Questions:

1. Should I apply to MD/DO this cycle or next cycle?
2. MHS or ACHS ?

Thank you so much!

 

[Goro]

Hello @Goro, need your advice please. Thanks for this thread.

• I did Bachelors in Cell bio and Neuroscience with 3.0 cgpa and 511 mcat. One F and 3 C's
• Worked as a CNA for 6 months
• Shadowed a surgeon/oncologist, pediatrician and a cardiologist -almost 200 hours
• Research scholar article in the process of publication
• Research intern for 3 years
• Did tutoring at elementary school- 6 weeks
• Volunteer work at soup kitchen, hospital, global brigades, etc.
• Accepted to MHS in Microbiology and Immunology @Johns Hopkins and ACHS @ Temple

Questions:

1. Should I apply to MD/DO this cycle or next cycle?
2. MHS or ACHS ?

Thank you so much!

Your chances are lethal this cycle. Doing poorly in the CBN MS program is not a good sign. What was the reason for the poor performance.

I don't make recommendations as to SMPs other than pick the one that's cheapest, shortest and has the best linkage

 

[shikshack]

Your chances are lethal this cycle. Doing poorly in the CBN MS program is not a good sign. What was the reason for the poor performance.

I don't make recommendations as to SMPs other than pick the one that's cheapest, shortest and has the best linkage

I did Bachelors in CBN.
Now debating between MHS or ACHS for gpa enhancement.
please guide.

 

[Goro]

I did Bachelors in CBN.
Now debating between MHS or ACHS for gpa enhancement.
please guide.

Ahhh, my mistake on UG degree, mea culpa.
I have already given you my advice on the SMPs

 

[DS7086]

Trying to decide if I should just apply next year's cycle or need to do some post-bac work for another year instead. I'm an older non-traditional applicant so my profile is already weird on top of an unimpressive GPA:

Non-traditional applicant in 30's. Finished undergrad 9 years ago and worked successfully in biological research at major "name recognition" research institutions from then until now. Not exactly selective with MD schools, but am particularly trying to stay in the northeast region if I can.

Non-Medical Community Service: 40 (science outreach events for high schoolers)
Non-Medical Employment: 5000 (service industry job while in undergrad)
Medical Community Service: 200 (standard volunteering at a hospital, but it was more than 5 years ago at this point)
Medical/Clinical Employment: 2200 (PICC assistant and clinical research associate. Will be 4200 by start of med school)
Research: 14,300* (5 middle author papers, 1 published in Science, rest are high-ish impact. 2 poster presentations, 1 middle author abstract where I only supplied the data/did the experiments. I also have about 40 "acknowledgments" in papers and would probably just mention this in the description of one of my research jobs somewhere)
*Some of these hours can also potentially be split out into leadership as I led/managed a research facility if that's a better strategy.
Teaching: 80 (wrote and taught graduate level biological imaging labs)
Shadowing: 200 hours across 5 disciplines
3.2c/3.1sGPA (upward trend, took about triple the required science/math coursework required for med school applicants, disadvantaged background explaining my struggle-bus GPA at beginning. My degree is in analytical chemistry with a biology minor and my C's are in Quantum Physics, Analytical Chemistry 2, and most damagingly Organic Chem 2)
MCAT 520 on my best full length practice test (so I'm gonna pretend I can replicate that on the real thing for the purposes of this)

Do I need to do a post-bac after graduating so many years ago with a pretty unimpressive GPA? For financial and timeline reasons I'm trying to avoid doing so if there's a realistic chance of admissions success without one. Should I only be applying to DO's with my GPA? My interest is in pathology so I'm not trying to match into something hugely competitive like neurosurgery.

 

[Goro]

Trying to decide if I should just apply next year's cycle or need to do some post-bac work for another year instead. I'm an older non-traditional applicant so my profile is already weird on top of an unimpressive GPA:

Non-traditional applicant in 30's. Finished undergrad 9 years ago and worked successfully in biological research at major "name recognition" research institutions from then until now. Not exactly selective with MD schools, but am particularly trying to stay in the northeast region if I can.

Non-Medical Community Service: 40 (science outreach events for high schoolers)
Non-Medical Employment: 5000 (service industry job while in undergrad)
Medical Community Service: 200 (standard volunteering at a hospital, but it was more than 5 years ago at this point)
Medical/Clinical Employment: 2200 (PICC assistant and clinical research associate. Will be 4200 by start of med school)
Research: 14,300* (5 middle author papers, 1 published in Science, rest are high-ish impact. 2 poster presentations, 1 middle author abstract where I only supplied the data/did the experiments. I also have about 40 "acknowledgments" in papers and would probably just mention this in the description of one of my research jobs somewhere)
*Some of these hours can also potentially be split out into leadership as I led/managed a research facility if that's a better strategy.
Teaching: 80 (wrote and taught graduate level biological imaging labs)
Shadowing: 200 hours across 5 disciplines
3.2c/3.1sGPA (upward trend, took about triple the required science/math coursework required for med school applicants, disadvantaged background explaining my struggle-bus GPA at beginning. My degree is in analytical chemistry with a biology minor and my C's are in Quantum Physics, Analytical Chemistry 2, and most damagingly Organic Chem 2)
MCAT 520 on my best full length practice test (so I'm gonna pretend I can replicate that on the real thing for the purposes of this)

Do I need to do a post-bac after graduating so many years ago with a pretty unimpressive GPA?

Yes

For financial and timeline reasons I'm trying to avoid doing so if there's a realistic chance of admissions success without one. Should I only be applying to DO's with my GPA?

Hard to advise without an MCAT score. On GPA alone, you'd be rejected from my school and many others.

My interest is in pathology so I'm not trying to match into something hugely competitive like neurosurgery.

Irrelevant at this point

 

[DS7086]

Yes

Hard to advise without an MCAT score. On GPA alone, you'd be rejected from my school and many others.

Irrelevant at this point

Any use in retaking courses I already took in your recommended list of DIY post-bac courses that I already got A's or B's in? I did a very science heavy degree so I already took the majority of those in my undergrad (but years ago). I can take some of the niche ones I don't have if I can find a college that offers them. I bolded all the ones I took in my undergrad (all A's/B's). I could take Quantum Physics/Analytical Chem/Organic Chem again as well if it's worth doing for a C (not C-)

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Epidemiology
Histology
Immunology
Medical and/or Molecular Genetics
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio (2 Semesters)
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

 

[Goro]

Any use in retaking courses I already took in your recommended list of DIY post-bac courses that I already got A's or B's in?

I can't recommend that unless the schools you apply to put an expiration date on them (which I doubt).

I did a very science heavy degree so I already took the majority of those in my undergrad (but years ago). I can take some of the niche ones I don't have if I can find a college that offers them. I bolded all the ones I took in my undergrad (all A's/B's). I could take Quantum Physics/Analytical Chem/Organic Chem again as well if it's worth doing for a C (not C-)

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Epidemiology
Histology
Immunology
Medical and/or Molecular Genetics
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio (2 Semesters)
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

An SMP might be a better choice for you.

 

[DS7086]

I can't recommend that unless the schools you apply to put an expiration date on them (which I doubt).


An SMP might be a better choice for you.

Thanks! I was hoping to skate by with my science heavy undergrad coursework\medical research career\solid MCAT but a SMP is probably more realistic.

 

[prabhleen1]

Hello @Goro! I first off want to thank you for all of your amazing advice throughout the years, I have been religiously following your advice for the past 2 years in the hopes of bettering my chances of going to medical school. (Also I love your profile image, I own two black cats myself!)

I realize you get many of these posts, but I was hoping you could take a quick look at my stats/story and give me your opinion on how I stand for applying to medical schools in the summer of of 2023.
(I am a CA resident, with strong ties to new york and Connecticut, I am an ORM.)

Stats:
Freshman year sgpa - 1.0 (4 courses)
Sophmore year sgpa - 3.2 (4 courses)
Junior year sgpa - 3.0 (4 courses)
Senior sgpa - 4.0 (3 courses)
Cumulative gpa when graduating - 3.4
Cumulative science gpa when graduating - 2.7
first yr postbacc sgpa - 4.0 (14 courses)
second year post bacc sgpa - 4.0 (16 courses)
total sgpa now - 3.5
(postbacc done at UCLA and UCSD, taking advanced bio and chem courses)
MCAT - 518


@Goro - Do you think I would be a solid applicant for the 2023 application cycle? And if yes, which MD and DO schools do you think would be realistic goals for me? I have read many of your reinvention posts, an I really hope that with all of my recent A's in all of these advanced courses, medical schools will see that I am more than capable of handling medical school. Also is a 518 mcat score range high enough to solidify a spot in a medical school? Or should I try to aim higher? And if no, what do you think I should work on in my application?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this! And thank you for all of your advice, it has been so helpful throughout the years.

 

[Goro]

Hello @Goro! I first off want to thank you for all of your amazing advice throughout the years, I have been religiously following your advice for the past 2 years in the hopes of bettering my chances of going to medical school. (Also I love your profile image, I own two black cats myself!) I realize you get many of these posts, but I was hoping you could take a quick look at my stats/story and give me your opinion on how I stand for applying to medical schools in the summer of of 2023. (I am a CA resident, with strong ties to new york and Connecticut, I am an ORM.)

Background:
I went to University of California, San Diego for an undergrad BS in psychology (got my degree from 2016-2020). During that time, I took many pre-med pre-reqs coincidentally out of curiosity (not because I wanted to go to medical school at the time). I took bio courses and different chem courses because I was genuinely curious about them, and it fulfilled the UCSD GE requirements I had to meet. At the time (my first two years of undergrad) I did not have a desire to go to medical school. And during my first 2 and a half years at university, my dad was extremely ill, and since UCSD was 90 minutes away from his home and hospital, I spent a lot of my time caring for him. Now that I have matured, I realize that I should have deferred from going to UCSD for one or two years to take care of my father full time. However, I was immature and naïve and took some difficult courses (such as science courses to fulfill my GE requirements) while spending 75% of my time caring for my dad. I ended up doing quite poorly in those science classes. After my father recovered, I finally understood that I wanted to go into the medical field. (There is much more to this story but I will leave that for my personal statement). I shadowed doctors, PA's, nurses, respiratory techs, etc. and decided that I wanted to/and could be a physician. However my science grades from undergrad were 100% going to hold me back. I took some time to reflect on my poor undergrad gpa, and decided a DIY post bacc made the most sense for my financially. (PS asked the registrar's office at UCSD for retroactive withdrawals recently sadly they said no).

Stats:
My cGPA after completing my degree was 3.4 and my sGPA was a 2.7. I have spent the past 2 years working three part time jobs to make money to pay for DIY post bacc classes. (The first job I work at a non-profit where I advocate for international Sikh rights and mental health for Sikh women, the second job I have is that I take care of autistic children as a respite worker, and the third job I clean peoples' homes). While working these three part time jobs I have been able to pay for UCLA and UCSD extension courses. I have already taken 21 courses (getting all A's or A+'s in these classes), and these courses are the advanced courses you recommend in your posts (each course varies from 3-5 units). If I continue to take 3 courses a quarter, I will raise my sGPA to a 3.5 (and around 120 units) by the 2023 summer application cycle. I have started to prepare for the mcat as well and my practice tests have me in the 516-519 range. I realize it is a bit foolish to ask you this without a concrete mcat score, however I have been consistently testing in this range form my practice tests.

EC's:
My primary extracurriculars are (forgive me for not giving much detail into each one, I will just list each activity in an effort to be concise):
Volunteer Assistant to Physicians: I created an initiative where young adults, who are a part of a non-profit can volunteer to assist physicians in caring for homeless/severely underprivileged individuals in many different communities. This group has been great in allowing myself, and other aspiring physicians like myself, to get clinical experience as well as understand the immense health disparities faced by underprivileged individuals on a daily basis. These physicians are all, like myself, part of a non-profit. = 900 + hours and counting
Respite Worker - I took care of autistic children's medical (I was trained), physical, and emotional needs for 3 years. = 600 hours
Research at a hospital - I worked with patients and doctors researching various topics (2 publications in medical journals not first author, 2 upcoming publications) = 500 + hours and counting
Tennis Coach - free tennis lessons twice a month for underprivileged children in my community for the past four years (I have also created a small coalition of professional tennis coaches that will join me on certain weekends to also train the children) = 450 + hours and counting
Advisor - free college application guidance counselor in underprivileged children in my community as well as Sikh children who are not in my immediate community. (The past 4 years) = 400 + hours and counting
Covid Medical Supplies Coordinator: I worked with a non-profit to bring covid supplies to impoverished areas throughout california and new york. = 300 hours
There are a few other extracurricular but these are my primary ones.

Miscellaneous:
I have shadowed physicians (150 hours), nurses (60 hours), PA's (80 hours) and respiratory tech's (50 hours)
I have given a speech to the United Nations and was published in their volume of United Nations: Human Development in the Context of Current Global Challenges.
I speak 3 languages.


@Goro - Do you think I would be a solid applicant for the 2023 application cycle? And if yes, which MD and DO schools do you think would be realistic goals for me? I have read many of your reinvention posts, an I really hope that with all of my recent A's in all of these advanced courses, medical schools will see that I am more than capable of handling medical school. Also if I get in the 516-519 mcat score range, will that be high enough to solidify a spot in a medical school? Or should I try to aim higher? And if no, what do you think I should work on in my application?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this! And thank you for all of your advice, it has been so helpful throughout the years.

Sincerely,

Please edit your post to delete your name for anonymity sake

Please use your paragraph function. The wall of text is difficult to read.

Please delete your reasons for doing poorly. I have read too many of these in my job.

Please give your year by year GPAs.

Delete your ECs. Save those for a WAMC post.

I just need the basic stats.

 

[prabhleen1]

Please edit your post to delete your name for anonymity sake

Please use your paragraph function. The wall of text is difficult to read.

Please delete your reasons for doing poorly. I have read too many of these in my job.

Please give your year by year GPAs.

Delete your ECs. Save those for a WAMC post.

I just need the basic stats.

@Goro I am so sorry!
I have edited my post and pasted it below:
Hello @Goro! I first off want to thank you for all of your amazing advice throughout the years, I have been religiously following your advice for the past 2 years in the hopes of bettering my chances of going to medical school. (Also I love your profile image, I own two black cats myself!)

I realize you get many of these posts, but I was hoping you could take a quick look at my stats/story and give me your opinion on how I stand for applying to medical schools in the summer of of 2023.
(I am a CA resident, with strong ties to new york and Connecticut, I am an ORM.)

Stats:
Freshman year sgpa - 1.0 (4 courses)
Sophmore year sgpa - 3.2 (4 courses)
Junior year sgpa - 3.0 (4 courses)
Senior sgpa - 4.0 (3 courses)
Cumulative gpa when graduating - 3.4
Cumulative science gpa when graduating - 2.7
first yr postbacc sgpa - 4.0 (14 courses)
second year post bacc sgpa - 4.0 (16 courses)
total sgpa now - 3.5
(postbacc done at UCLA and UCSD, taking advanced bio and chem courses)
MCAT - 518


@Goro - Do you think I would be a solid applicant for the 2023 application cycle? And if yes, which MD and DO schools do you think would be realistic goals for me? I have read many of your reinvention posts, an I really hope that with all of my recent A's in all of these advanced courses, medical schools will see that I am more than capable of handling medical school. Also is a 518 mcat score range high enough to solidify a spot in a medical school? Or should I try to aim higher? And if no, what do you think I should work on in my application?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this! And thank you for all of your advice, it has been so helpful throughout the years.

 

[Goro]

@Goro I am so sorry!
I have edited my post and pasted it below:
Hello @Goro! I first off want to thank you for all of your amazing advice throughout the years, I have been religiously following your advice for the past 2 years in the hopes of bettering my chances of going to medical school. (Also I love your profile image, I own two black cats myself!)

I realize you get many of these posts, but I was hoping you could take a quick look at my stats/story and give me your opinion on how I stand for applying to medical schools in the summer of of 2023.
(I am a CA resident, with strong ties to new york and Connecticut, I am an ORM.)

Stats:
Freshman year sgpa - 1.0 (4 courses)
Sophmore year sgpa - 3.2 (4 courses)
Junior year sgpa - 3.0 (4 courses)
Senior sgpa - 4.0 (3 courses)
Cumulative gpa when graduating - 3.4
Cumulative science gpa when graduating - 2.7
first yr postbacc sgpa - 4.0 (14 courses)
second year post bacc sgpa - 4.0 (16 courses)
total sgpa now - 3.5
(postbacc done at UCLA and UCSD, taking advanced bio and chem courses)
MCAT - 518


@Goro - Do you think I would be a solid applicant for the 2023 application cycle?

Yes, absolutely

And if yes, which MD and DO schools do you think would be realistic goals for me?

List will follow. In a meeting now

I have read many of your reinvention posts, an I really hope that with all of my recent A's in all of these advanced courses, medical schools will see that I am more than capable of handling medical school. Also is a 518 mcat score range high enough to solidify a spot in a medical school?

Absolutely!!!!

Or should I try to aim higher? And if no, what do you think I should work on in my application?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this! And thank you for all of your advice, it has been so helpful throughout the years.

 

[prabhleen1]

Yes, absolutely

List will follow. In a meeting now

Absolutely!!!!

Thank you so much @Goro !!
I look forward to hearing back from you! Sorry to disturb you during your meeting!

 

[prabhleen1]

Thank you so much @Goro !!
I look forward to hearing back from you! Sorry to disturb you during your meeting!

Sorry @Goro for bombarding you with so many questions. I had a quick question about what schools I should apply to.

I realize that as a CA resident I am at a bit of a disadvantage. Due to the fact that the public medical schools in CA are extrememly difficult to get into. Should I even bother applying the the UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, UCI medical schools? I cannot apply to UCR because I do not live in the inland empire.

 

[Goro]

Sorry @Goro for bombarding you with so many questions. I had a quick question about what schools I should apply to.

I realize that as a CA resident I am at a bit of a disadvantage. Due to the fact that the public medical schools in CA are extrememly difficult to get into. Should I even bother applying the the UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, UCI medical schools? I cannot apply to UCR because I do not live in the inland empire.

UCSF for sure

 

[prabhleen1]

UCSF for sure

Ok thank you @Goro ! I will make sure and add UCSF to my MD list. Are there other private MD and DO institutions you would recommend I apply to, especially given my low GPA and the fact that I am not straight out of undergrad and that I have been in the work force for 2 years?

Thank you so much again!

 

[Goro]

Thank you so much @Goro !!
I look forward to hearing back from you! Sorry to disturb you during your meeting!

It was a boring meeting.
I suggest:
Columbia
Case
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
Temple (maybe)
UCSF
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI
Any DO program. Start list with both Westerns, TUNCOM, TUCOM.CA, AZCOM, and PacNW. I can't recommend LMU, ARCOM, RVU, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if possible.

 

[prabhleen1]

It was a boring meeting.
I suggest:
Columbia
Case
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
Temple (maybe)
UCSF
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI
Any DO program. Start list with both Westerns, TUNCOM, TUCOM.CA, AZCOM, and PacNW. I can't recommend LMU, ARCOM, RVU, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if possible.

Thank you so much @Goro ! I really appreciate your help and advice! Sorry the meeting was boring 🙁.

 

[driidrii]

@Goro I have a couple questions regarding myself and reinvention.

NY Resident

USC Graduate

Gender: Male

Ethnicity: African American (Caribbean)

Major: Human Biology
Cumulative GPA: 3.33 (freshman year 2.575, sophomore year 3.471, junior year 3.687, senior year 3.62)
AMCAS science gpa: 3.14 (freshman year 1.900, sophomore year 3.370, junior year 3.488, senior year 3.66)

MCAT Score(s): Taking 6/16

Research Experience: 1 year of Biomechanics Research (330 hrs), ranging from assisting D1 Track and Field Athletes during Olympic Qualifiers to assisting Graduate Researchers with their Thesis.

Employment History:

Clinical Experience (paid or volunteer):
Direct Support Professional: 2400hrs
Specimen Collector at a Chemical Dependency Clinic: 720hrs
Student Athletic Medicine Assistant: 720hrs

Non-Clinical Experience (paid):
Library Student Assistant: 117hrs
760 hrs across as Mentor/Advisor/Tutor/Teaching Assistant to 7th/8th graders

Physician Shadowing: 24 hours (MD- Family Medicine)

Non-Clinical Volunteering:
126hrs as a Mentor/Advisor/Tutor to local High School Students

Other Extracurricular Activities:
Eboard on a Pre-Health Club

For a gap year job, I plan to work as a clinical research coordinator or a research associate.

Here are my questions.

1. I plan on taking the MCAT for June 16. I haven't started the AAMC FLs yet but based on my Kaplan FL averages I'm in the 505-510 range. Should I still apply this cycle despite my scores being released July 17th?

2. While I am a NY resident, I went to high school in CT for all four years. Furthermore, I went to school in CA and filed taxes there as well. Would I qualify for IS bias for both of those states?

3. Even though I don't have substantial volunteer experience, I do have 760 hrs where I was an advisor, mentor, tutor to 7th and 8th graders over the summer to prepare them for high school. Will this be seen favorably?

Update: just got my score back from the MCAT 514 (129/128/128/129). Can I still apply this cycle or should I wait next year?

 

[Goro]

Update: just got my score back from the MCAT 514 (129/128/128/129). Can I still apply this cycle or should I wait next year?

Depends upon the rest of your app. 514 is a great score! Congrats!

Post in WAMC forum for recommended school lists. This thread isn't for that.

 

[coderdocter]

Hi @Goro, I'm looking for advice on a Canadian non-trad path forward. Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to be asking about Canadian paths, but here are my stats in case you can provide some guidance or advice:

• Late 20's Canadian software engineer
• B.Sc in Combined Biology & Psychology at University of Victoria, 2011-2016
  • 1st year: 3.80/10 or 2.6/4 (5 courses each semester)
  • 2nd year: 3.22/10 or 2.38/4 (5 courses 1st semester, 4 courses 2nd)
  • 3rd year: 3.56/10 or 2.52/4 (5 courses 1st semester, 4 courses 2nd)
    • 3rd year summer: 2.0/10 or 2.0/4 (1 course)
  • 4th year: 3.88/10 or 2.65/4 (5 courses 1st semester, 4 courses 2nd)
    • 4th year summer: 3.0/10 or 2.3/4 (1 course)
  • 5th year: 1.86/10 or 1.86/4 (3 courses 1st semester, 4 courses 2nd)
  • cGPA 3.29/10 or 2.4/4
• Turned my life around after university, started software engineering in 2017, was awarded a Canadian 30 Under 30 Software Engineer this year, and am now feeling ready to pursue medicine
• Looking to pursue a reinvention path that satisfies the following:
  • Online courses that can be taken while working full-time, either part-time at 2 courses per semester or full-time at 3
  • Only considering Canadian universities at the moment due to cost
• Questions:
  • Would it be advisable to take the MCAT before a post-bacc to validate my reinvention/candidacy?
  • What would be the best post-bacc program and at which school?

Thank you for your help.

 

[sailorcosmo]

In the process of reinventing myself, and when I apply I will have reinvented for a little over 1 year. Is this long enough? I'm not asking for GPAs sake (I will have a ~3.5 cGPA, not ideal but it is what it is), I'm asking if that is a long enough time to show adcom that I am a better student, or if they will think that's too short?

Eta: in credits, it would be ~83 credits of reinvention.

 

[prokofiev]

@Goro
Undergraduate - BS Chem

Freshman Year: 2.154 (cGPA: 2.154)
Sophomore Year: 3.004 (cGPA: 2.633)
Junior Year: 3.146 (cGPA: 2.825)
Senior Year: 3.514 (cGPA: 2.949) ( Fall Semester Medical Withdrawal (on transcript) + Untreated Seasonal Affective + COVID)
Post-Bacc: 3.733 (cGPA: 3.030) ( Fall Semester Medical Withdrawal (on transcript) + Untreated Seasonal Affective + COVID)
------------------------------------
Final Undergrad: cGPA: 3.03, sUGPA: 2.90


Graduate - MS Computer Science (T20, if that matters)
1st Sem - 3.533
2nd Sem - 3.9
3rd Sem - 4.0
----------------
Final Graduate: cGGPA: 3.84

MCAT: 517

Clincal (~600 hrs):
3 Years as a ER Volunteer (400+ hrs), Medical Assistant: (200+ hrs).

Non-Clinical (~200 hrs):
Few months in Food Pantry, Few months in mentorship program

State: NY. Am a URM (Dominican), First-Gen, Low-SES, Non-Trad,
Specializing in ML/AI in Medicine (Thesis in CV & Radiology, currently in that lab).

With the two sem withdrawals do I need an SMP (Ruined Post-Bacc) to save my sGPA? I spent a lot on a masters already haha
I don't care about MD vs DO too much (Should I? I'm interested in Rads). I'm totally fine with applying only DO.

 

[Goro]

Prokofiev, you'll be fine

 

[Calizboosted76]

In the process of reinventing myself, and when I apply I will have reinvented for a little over 1 year. Is this long enough? I'm not asking for GPAs sake (I will have a ~3.5 cGPA, not ideal but it is what it is), I'm asking if that is a long enough time to show adcom that I am a better student, or if they will think that's too short?

Eta: in credits, it would be ~83 credits of reinvention.

Thats plenty of credits. Just make sure it is an upward trend and you have the MCAT to match.

 

[spicypumpkin]

@Goro , I want to express my gratitude for your advice over the years. I graduated college four years ago with a 3.25, and I now hold an acceptance to an MD school (and am waiting to hear back from an interview at a T20). I doubt I would be in this position without your clear guidance and willingness to tell the truth, even if it stung a bit at the time. Thank you for helping me to achieve what I had once thought to be impossible!

 

[Goro]

@Goro , I want to express my gratitude for your advice over the years. I graduated college four years ago with a 3.25, and I now hold an acceptance to an MD school (and am waiting to hear back from an interview at a T20). I doubt I would be in this position without your clear guidance and willingness to tell the truth, even if it stung a bit at the time. Thank you for helping me to achieve what I had once thought to be impossible!

🙂🙂🙂

Congrats!!

Now go read this:

• Goro's Guide to Success in Medical School (2019 edition)