Goro’s guide to interviews

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Goro said:
You're competing with 7000-15000 other applicants. Give the Admissions staff time to wade through the pile to get to your app. Start worrying if you haven't heard anything by Thanksgiving.
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I needed this rn. I have been an anxious mess because I haven't heard back. Thanks Goro!
 
What exactly is a 4.0 automaton and what would alternative careers be for them? A dime a dozen, really? They seem pretty scant in the workforce.
 
A 4.0 automaton is an exaggerated way of mentioning "someone who looks good on paper." Someone with great grades and who can go through all of the motions, but doesn't click socially, usually because they lack some basic social skills due to focusing so much on their grades. Basic social intelligence is very important in fields with lots of communicating parts - not so much in research or certain parts of academia - and HIGH social intelligence is a godsend.

I would addend that to include that much of what the world considers to be good social skills can alternately be viewed as leadership traits. We don't have to be actively in leadership roles to lead other people. I'm leading you through my words right now, and if I'm not being a good enough leader (for our short attention spans in text 😛), you will skim on. Having the ability to see what is bothering other people, their motives in mentioning certain things, or understanding their frustrations are all important things to consider when trying to help them or ask them for help. I don't think adcoms appear to eat up leadership so much because they are looking for a "healthcare team leader," but because it is one way of gauging social intelligence. I bet that most of the club captains and presidents they see look pretty cute to them from where they're standing.
 
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As a followup to raffi's spot on answer, there are six competencies that medicals school want in their students and graduates, and ditto for residency programs. Five of the six are humanistic domains.
Mastery of scientific knowledge is but 1/6th.

My quote on 4.0 automatons was actually once said by a medical school dean.


raf1ki said:
A 4.0 automaton is an exaggerated way of mentioning "someone who looks good on paper." Someone with great grades and who can go through all of the motions, but doesn't click socially, usually because they lack some basic social skills due to focusing so much on their grades. Basic social intelligence is very important in fields with lots of communicating parts - not so much in research or certain parts of academia - and HIGH social intelligence is a godsend.

I would addend that to include that much of what the world considers to be good social skills can alternately be viewed as leadership traits. We don't have to be actively in leadership roles to lead other people. I'm leading you through my words right now, and if I'm not being a good enough leader (for our short attention spans in text 😛), you will skim on. Having the ability to see what is bothering other people, their motives in mentioning certain things, or understanding their frustrations are all important things to consider when trying to help them or ask them for help. I don't think adcoms appear to eat up leadership so much because they are looking for a "healthcare team leader," but because it is one way of gauging social intelligence. I bet that most of the club captains and presidents they see look pretty cute to them from where they're standing.
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And federally mandated!

In case anyone is wondering:
The 6 general competencies are:

  • Patient care
  • Medical Knowledge
  • Professionalism
  • Systems-based Practice
  • Practice-based Learning
  • Interpersonal and Communication Skills
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043418/

News to me, thanks Goro. Anyone who wants essay clues should read the above document...
 
Hmm...I thought they were more of academic robots—not necessarily weak in people skills but weak in anything outside of GPA. I'm more of an introverted individual but not to the point to where I'd consider myself an automaton. I'm competent at communicating with people at a professional level but just a bit weak when it comes to discussing personal life stuff with others my age.
 
Hm maybe its a good thing I went to all of those parties instead of studying during my freshman and sophomore years!


(not really)
 
Kurk said:
Hmm...I thought they were more of academic robots—not necessarily weak in people skills but weak in anything outside of GPA. I'm more of an introverted individual but not to the point to where I'd consider myself an automaton. I'm competent at communicating with people at a professional level but just a bit weak when it comes to discussing personal life stuff with others my age.
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I think people underestimate or overestimate themselves to an extent. Social skills are valuable professionally past what you would consider a professional level. Don't sell yourself short, but always try to improve upon them.
 
Does anyone have any insight on how to handle the "tell me about yourself" question? I assume they don't want us to ramble on about where we grew up and how many siblings we have, etc. What direction should we go with this?
 
turtles43 said:
Does anyone have any insight on how to handle the "tell me about yourself" question? I assume they don't want us to ramble on about where we grew up and how many siblings we have, etc. What direction should we go with this?
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I used a modified version of my standard diversity essay.
 
turtles43 said:
Have you interviewed anywhere yet?
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OH JEEZ! I had this and the Albany Medical College thread open at the same time. AMC has "Describe yourself" as a secondary essay. Sorry about that.

For the interviews, I do plan to give brief intro to my family and where I grew up, then transition to moving to Boston for college, and then what made me want to do medicine. Basically a very general overview of how I got from my mom's uterus to the medical school interview.
 
ChrisMack390 said:
OH JEEZ! I had this and the Albany Medical College thread open at the same time. AMC has "Describe yourself" as a secondary essay. Sorry about that.

For the interviews, I do plan to give brief intro to my family and where I grew up, then transition to moving to Boston for college, and then what made me want to do medicine. Basically a very general overview of how I got from my mom's uterus to the medical school interview.
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That sounds like a good strategy. I tend to overthink these things so that's what I am trying to avoid!
 
How much time should we spend when answering the "why medicine" question? I don't want it to sound like I'm rambling. Does it make sense to explain how I didn't know what I wanted to do as an undergrad and what eventually led me to apply to medical school (specific classes, experiences, professors, etc.)?

Thanks!
 
raf1ki said:
I think people underestimate or overestimate themselves to an extent. Social skills are valuable professionally past what you would consider a professional level. Don't sell yourself short, but always try to improve upon them.
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So is it okay if I talk like Ben Carson during interviews or in general?
 
I'm going to be honest here, I speak similarly to Ted Cruz, Hillary, and Ben Carson during interviews. I feel like people think I'm being fake but that's just how I am. I'm not going to speak to my boss like how I would speak to my friend.
 
Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? I thought you were making a joke directed at my post.
 
Why does it take so long to hear back? The suspense is killing me 🙁
 
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raf1ki said:
Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? I thought you were making a joke directed at my post.
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I mean like I tend to speak like a seasoned politician mixed with the gentle tone of Ben Carson. I'm afraid that I might come off as being fake. How are you supposed to speak then?
 
I'm surprised to see adcoms (specifically @LizzyM and @gyngyn ) saying that their schools accept >=3 people to get 1 matriculant. At a lot of the schools I am interviewing at, the MSAR says they interview about 3 people to 1 matriculant. That means just about everyone gets in...
 
ChrisMack390 said:
I'm surprised to see adcoms (specifically @LizzyM and @gyngyn ) saying that their schools accept >=3 people to get 1 matriculant. At a lot of the schools I am interviewing at, the MSAR says they interview about 3 people to 1 matriculant. That means just about everyone gets in...
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This is school dependent but you are correct if they send out 3X acceptances for matriculants and only conduct 3X matriculant interviews logic would dictate that everyone interviewed gets accepted at those schools.
 
My school gets about 6000 apps
We interview ~500
we accept ~250
We seat ~100.

As you can see, people decide at different time points after the II to go elsewhere.

Some state schools really love their IS applicants.


ChrisMack390 said:
I'm surprised to see adcoms (specifically @LizzyM and @gyngyn ) saying that their schools accept >=3 people to get 1 matriculant. At a lot of the schools I am interviewing at, the MSAR says they interview about 3 people to 1 matriculant. That means just about everyone gets in...
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libertyyne said:
This is school dependent but you are correct if they send out 3X acceptances for matriculants and only conduct 3X matriculant interviews logic would dictate that everyone interviewed gets accepted at those schools.
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Thanks for checking my math, but my ability to multiply isn't what I am skeptical/surprised about lol

I guess I should feel confident that unless I do or say something incredibly stupid I will get accepted to most of these places...
 
Goro said:
My school gets about 6000 apps
We interview ~500
we accept ~250
We seat ~100.

As you can see, people decide at different time points after the II to go elsewhere.

Some state schools really love their IS applicants.
Click to expand...

Certainly people decide to go elsewhere, and for competitive applicants with several options that's no surprise. The surprise is that schools, especially the top their schools Lizzy and Gyn work at, are accepting nearly every candidate they interview. Kind of calls into question even bothering to interview them - there has to be a cheaper and faster way to identify the occasional weirdo or sociopath.
 
ChrisMack390 said:
Certainly people decide to go elsewhere, and for competitive applicants with several options that's no surprise. The surprise is that schools, especially the top their schools Lizzy and Gyn work at, are accepting nearly every candidate they interview. Kind of calls into question even bothering to interview them - there has to be a cheaper and faster way to identify the occasional weirdo or sociopath.
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Yeah, i think CASper is exactly what you are talking about.

I also had this epiphany for the first time after interviewing and digging into the statistics. That almost everyone interviewed will be accepted. It is a weird conclusion to reach, however ,that being said, its an opaque process where who knows how many acceptances were sent out at most schools per matriculant. The LizzyM and Goro schools may be unusual for their characteristics . UMich is a good example where 180 IS applicants interviewed 120 accepted an 100 matriculated with ZERO movement on the waitlist.
 
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libertyyne said:
Yeah, i think CASper is exactly what you are talking about.
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Ya I thought of CASper, but Tulane, NYMC, RWJ still do in person interviews. WMed does an online assessment and a phone interview that serve the same purpose as CASper and they still do interviews as well.

Will in person interviews ultimately be replaced? Or is the real purpose of the interview day to convince students to come to your school, not really to interview them? Even in that case, accepted students days and such would accomplish the same purpose.
 
Can you give me examples of such schools???


ChrisMack390 said:
Certainly people decide to go elsewhere, and for competitive applicants with several options that's no surprise. The surprise is that schools, especially the top their schools Lizzy and Gyn work at, are accepting nearly every candidate they interview.
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Goro said:
Can you give me examples of such schools???
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Loyola interviews 480 and matriculates 159. They interview 135 OOS students and matriculate 94. That says to me that they either accept nearly everyone they interview or they are incredibly good at predicting who will actually matriculate.

Robert Woods Johnson interviews about 600 and matriculates about 200. Perfect example where if they are really accepting at a 3:1 ratio they are accepting just about everyone.

UAZ-Phoenix interviews 300 and matriculates 80. Again, a 3:1 ratio would mean they are accepting 240/300.

U-Vermont, U-Pitt, Case Western, Mayo, WMed, Oakland B all seem to accept between 50 and 80% of their interviews.


This data, at least the way I'm reading it, reinforces the notion that if you get an interview and aren't a sociopath you are probably getting in. SDN often says that is not true though.
 
If you look at US News and World Report (or USnooze and World Distort, as one adcom on here likes to put it 😉 ) you can find the actual numbers of interviewees and accepted students, rather than just matriculated students. For many top schools, these numbers indicate that roughly 25% of interviewees are accepted, but there are some significant deviations in both directions. The catch is that you have to have a paid subscription to USNews to see this info...of course, being the neurotic premed that I am, I got the subscription.

Edit: My question is, the conventional logic is that at the interview stage, you're not competing against the other interviewees, just yourself. I've seen it said on SDN that schools could afford to accept all their interviewees if they wished....is this significantly less true for top schools with a post-interview acceptance rate of 25%?


ChrisMack390 said:
Loyola interviews 480 and matriculates 159. They interview 135 OOS students and matriculate 94. That says to me that they either accept nearly everyone they interview or they are incredibly good at predicting who will actually matriculate.

Robert Woods Johnson interviews about 600 and matriculates about 200. Perfect example where if they are really accepting at a 3:1 ratio they are accepting just about everyone.

UAZ-Phoenix interviews 300 and matriculates 80. Again, a 3:1 ratio would mean they are accepting 240/300.

U-Vermont, U-Pitt, Case Western, Mayo, WMed, Oakland B all seem to accept between 50 and 80% of their interviews.


This data, at least the way I'm reading it, reinforces the notion that if you get an interview and aren't a sociopath you are probably getting in. SDN often says that is not true though.
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coffeeandcodeine said:
If you look at US News and World Report (or USnooze and World Distort, as one adcom on here likes to put it 😉 ) you can find the actual numbers of interviewees and accepted students, rather than just matriculated students. For many top schools, these numbers indicate that roughly 25% of interviewees are accepted, but there are some significant deviations in both directions. The catch is that you have to have a paid subscription to USNews to see this info...of course, being the neurotic premed that I am, I got the subscription.
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In every example I just cited, >25% of the interviewees matriculate to the school. The acceptance rate is obviously higher than the matriculant rate.

The only real source is the MSAR. I'm sorry you actually gave money to US News.
 
Right, my intention wasn't to contradict your info, I'm sorry if it came off like that. I'm just saying that if you'd like more specific information about post-interview acceptance rates at individual schools, the MSAR doesn't provide that data, so I'd actually recommend US News (their numbers are solid, even if their ranking methodology can be questionable). For some schools, it certainly seems true that if you aren't a sociopath, you'll be accepted, but for others it's a bit less certain.



ChrisMack390 said:
In every example I just cited, >25% of the interviewees matriculate to the school. The acceptance rate is obviously higher than the matriculant rate.

The only real source is the MSAR. I'm sorry you actually gave money to US News.
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upload_2016-9-21_10-57-58.png

The negative means they literally do not send out enough II's to be able to send out acceptances to 3X matriculants.
 
ChrisMack390 said:
Loyola interviews 480 and matriculates 159. They interview 135 OOS students and matriculate 94. That says to me that they either accept nearly everyone they interview or they are incredibly good at predicting who will actually matriculate.

Robert Woods Johnson interviews about 600 and matriculates about 200. Perfect example where if they are really accepting at a 3:1 ratio they are accepting just about everyone.

UAZ-Phoenix interviews 300 and matriculates 80. Again, a 3:1 ratio would mean they are accepting 240/300.

U-Vermont, U-Pitt, Case Western, Mayo, WMed, Oakland B all seem to accept between 50 and 80% of their interviews.


This data, at least the way I'm reading it, reinforces the notion that if you get an interview and aren't a sociopath you are probably getting in. SDN often says that is not true though.
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Case accepts 50% post II. I have no idea why you think Mayo accepts 50-80% lol they accept 25% post interview, having one of the lowest MD post-II acceptance rates. They're looking to increase their IIs this year also, so the number will stay the same or lower.
 
GrumpyGus said:
Case accepts 50% post II. I have no idea why you think Mayo accepts 50-80% lol they accept 25% post interview, having one of the lowest MD post-II acceptance rates. They're looking to increase their IIs this year also, so the number will stay the same or lower.
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If case hands out 3X as many acceptances as it has matriculants then it acceptance rate is 60% post II.
 
libertyyne said:
If case hands out 3X as many acceptances as it has matriculants then it acceptance rate is 60% post II.
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And I am saying Case's acceptance rate is actually 50%. The 3x rule is not a law. You can assume schools accept 1.5-3x... Really depends on the school.

The better the school, the higher their yield is and the lower their acceptance rate is. For example, Harvard interviews 813 students, accepts 225 for a class of 165. That's a 27% acceptance rate and a 1.36x acceptance rate.

Hopkins interviews 686, accepts 271 for a class of 120. 39% acceptance rate and 2.25x acceptance rate.

UWash interviews 825, accepts 291 for a class of 245. 35% acceptance rate and 1.18x acceptance rate.

I could go on forever. It's highly variable.
 
GrumpyGus said:
And I am saying Case's acceptance rate is actually 50%. The 3x rule is not a law. You can assume schools accept 1.5-3x... Really depends on the school.

The better the school, the higher their yield is and the lower their acceptance rate is. For example, Harvard interviews 813 students, accepts 225 for a class of 165. That's a 27% acceptance rate and a 1.36x acceptance rate.

Hopkins interviews 686, accepts 271 for a class of 120. 39% acceptance rate and 2.25x acceptance rate.

UWash interviews 825, accepts 291 for a class of 245. 35% acceptance rate and 1.18x acceptance rate.

I could go on forever. It's highly variable.
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Where are you getting this data from ?
 
libertyyne said:
Unrelated, how reliable is that data? Most of these schools do not publish this data themselves.
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USNWR won't just make up info if they dont have it. Quite a few schools do not have info on it. I think most don't publish it to seem more selective for whatever reason.
 
GrumpyGus said:
USNWR won't just make up info if they dont have it. Quite a few schools do not have info on it. I think most don't publish it to seem more selective for whatever reason.
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I wasnt sure if they were using some sort of messed up data collection method to claim the numbers , like survey a bunch of premeds or applicants and extrapolate their results.
 
libertyyne said:
I wasnt sure if they were using some sort of messed up data collection method to claim the numbers , like survey a bunch of premeds or applicants and extrapolate their results.
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They are. They MSAR is the only real source.
 
cryhavoc said:
What is your opinion on blushing without any stuttering or other signs of embarrassment? Sometimes when I'm nervous I turn bright red, but all other signs of nervousness are absent. I've given speeches and presented projects without a single bit of stuttering or nervousness, but later learned I was red during the presentation.

I can't really control it, it just happens sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.
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Sorry for quoting you from a year ago, but I recently had an interview where I choked on water mid-question. I apologized to my interviewer for being nervous (first interview) as I tried to catch my breath in between coughing fits. I can't seem to stop replaying it in my head, but it probably (hopefully?) won't be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.....
 
CastleWolfenstein said:
Sorry for quoting you from a year ago, but I recently had an interview where I choked on water mid-question. I apologized to my interviewer for being nervous (first interview) as I tried to catch my breath in between coughing fits. I can't seem to stop replaying it in my head, but it probably (hopefully?) won't be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.....
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At least you probably stood out(?)
 
I know it probably felt really embarrassing, but as long as you managed to be articulate during the rest of your interview, your interviewer probably found it endearing/amusing. I highly doubt anyone would hold it against you!

CastleWolfenstein said:
Sorry for quoting you from a year ago, but I recently had an interview where I choked on water mid-question. I apologized to my interviewer for being nervous (first interview) as I tried to catch my breath in between coughing fits. I can't seem to stop replaying it in my head, but it probably (hopefully?) won't be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.....
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CastleWolfenstein said:
Sorry for quoting you from a year ago, but I recently had an interview where I choked on water mid-question. I apologized to my interviewer for being nervous (first interview) as I tried to catch my breath in between coughing fits. I can't seem to stop replaying it in my head, but it probably (hopefully?) won't be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.....
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I don't think choking is a faux pas in and of itself, but how you handle it is important. If you can make your interviewer laugh with you about it, then I don't think they'd ding you for it. If you look like a nervous mess, then that probably went into the negative column.
 
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