Goro's guide to the med school app process, 2016 version

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Goro

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Some tips for you. Grab a cup of coffee, pull up a chair.

  • Applying early is good. The earlier, the better. But don’t freak out if you’re not submitting by end of July. Most Admissions deans don’t get started at work until after Labor Day. By end of September, it's probably too late for MD schools (unless you’re a stellar candidate), but FYI, the DO cycle is longer (up to Dec or even Jan!) I'll make some DO-specific posts in the pre-osteopathic forum later.

  • Do NOT apply to a school that you don't want to go to. It's one thing to not like a place after an interview, but, really, do your homework.
  • Think about where the schools are. Mayo and Rochester are not merely cold in the winter, but Siberian cold. Tulane, on the other hand, is hot and sauna-like in the summer (but with great food). Consider your support groups, if you're leaving home for the first time. I literally have lost students to homesickness.


  • If you don't have your MCAT in (or some other crucial requirement), it's OK to start applying. The verification process can take a long time, so if you can get that out of the way, so much the better. Apply to an unrealistic reach school.


  • Don't know where to apply? Do your homework. MSAR Online is a mandatory resource. The money it will save you from not applying to even one wrong school (for you) will more than make up for the cost of MSAR.


  • More and more med schools accept CC credits. Again, MSAR is useful in telling you who does, and who doesn't take the coursework. Here's a rule of thumb.


    -If you go to a CC and then to a UG school, that's fine.
    -If you go to a CC as a non-trad to get the pre-reqs, for for grade repair as a DIY post-bac, that's also fine.
    -If it appears that you're avoiding your UG school's rigorous weeding courses by taking them at CCs, then that's going to raise some eyebrows.


  • Apply strategically! What I mean is look over the MCAT AND GPAs of the schools you're interested in, and apply to those whose median scores are close to your own. Do NOT apply to a school if your numbers are <10th percentile of matriculants. The people who get into Yale with a 29 MCAT are either URM, legacies, veterans, or have something really spectacular about their story.


  • My suggestion is that if you're 2-3 points below the school's median, you're in striking distance, but consider your numbers carefully. Apply smart and apply once. But the higher the pole you want to climb, the slipperier it will get.


  • In light of the above, there's "reach", and then there's "unrealistic". Be realistic.


  • If your GPA is under 3.4, I recommend NOT applying now, unless you live in an area where the state schools have their 10th-90th percentiles stretching down to 3.3. An example is U AR or U MO-KC. Better to take a post-bac or SMP and get the GPA into a competitive zone. Oh, and I'm not impressed with the n=1 stories of "my cousin got into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA". There always will be outliers.
  • If you do well in a SMP/post-bac (GPA >3.6 AND have a MCAT > 33), then there are med schools that reward reinvention, even if your cGPA is <3.4! Search for my other posts for lists of those.


  • A great GPA is not going to make up for a poor MCAT, and vice versa.


  • The average MD matriculant nationwide has a GPA of 3.69 +/- 0.25 for the past few years and an MCAT of 31 (roughly 509-511 on the new exam). Remember these numbers.


  • Know your target schools, beyond the numbers. Many schools are mission driven, like Howard, UCR, SIU, Mercer and Central Michigan.


  • Look up how many public schools accept out-of-state students, and what percentage are these of the class? MSAR tells you this in the Acceptance Information tab. Many schools (ex. Mercer, UND, USD, U NM, LSU, U MS) will highly favor in-state residents, to the exclusion of OOSers. Those OOS students taken at, say, U IA or U AL, most likely come from neighboring states. So don't apply to U HI just because you'd love to go to med school in HI. Have the bona fides for HI. My rule of thumb is if >10-20% of the matriculants are from OOS, it might be worth applying. But be > avg.


  • In that vein, think very carefully about "ties" to a state. Growing up in a place and then moving away is fine. Wife's family lives there? Not fine.


  • Have as any eyeballs as possible go over your app. There's no excuse for spelling, grammar or thoughtless mistakes on your PS. And for God's sake, when you cut and paste, remove school A's name and replace it with B for the app for school B. As in sports, where the team that makes more mistakes will lose, the apps with the fewest mistakes get received kindly.


  • Don't use your PS to explain why you got bad grades. It's for "Who are you?” for "Why Medicine?" and how you got to that decision.


  • Do NOT write in your PS or secondary about what you think we want to see...write about your passions and what drives you. Write about what makes you interesting.
  • The “diversity” prompt for secondaries (as in "How will you add to the diversity of our class"?) is NOT about your ethnic background. It’s about what unique thing do you bring to the entering Class? Think of it this way: if I asked your three best friends “what’s the coolest thing about you?” what would they say?
  • Give some serious thought to the “Tell us about a time you failed” or “What is the biggest obstacle that you overcame?” prompts of secondaries. I believe a lot of people get weeded out by this one for being superficial, or coming across as over privileged. Yes, I know some of you have charmed lives, but if the biggest hurt in your life was getting a C or B for the first time, that’s not going to go down very well. Not everyone goes experiences the death of a loved one, or goes through something traumatic, but really, what has challenged you the most? Moving away from home to go to college? Dealing with people of a very different culture? Confronting your own prejudices? These prompts are valuable because they make you think about yourself. Remember, to those who are given much, much is expected.


  • So avoid writing something that would make a screener or interviewer think "that's it??" A example would be “I’m diverse because I went o school with lots of Asian kids”
  • If English is NOT your native language, have some native English speakers go over your app.


  • Many schools send out secondaries whether you're competitive or not. They can be a tax on the hopelessly clueless, or over-optimistic.


  • Have the right ECs. You need ECs. There are tons of people on SDN who bitch and moan about them. Well, tough. Each school gets thousands of apps for some 100-250 seats. How do we winnow down the pool? The answer is something that hyperachievers with no people skills hate hearing: you have display your altruism and humanity, your willingness to serve others, that you know what you're getting into, and that you know what a doctor's day is like.

  • It's not only about GPA and MCATs...it's about the rest of the packet. All the people you're competing with are academically clones of each other. So the guy with 1000 hrs in the lab and 100 hrs shadowing (and who thinks shadowing counts as volunteering) but no other clinical experience doesn't know what he's getting into, hasn't shown anything altruistic and will be passed over for someone who reads to poor children, or brings coffee to the dialysis patients in hospice. 4.0 automatons are a dime-a-dozen. Stats may get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.
  • Always keep in mind that it's about what med schools want, not what you want. An in the end, it's about the patients.

  • If you're doing this because your parents are pressuring you to do it, stop right now, grow a spine and/or some balls, and tell them that this isn't for you. You'll just save yourself a lot of misery later. Better yet, get them accounts on SDN so they can see what it takes to get into med school.


  • It's a scary process. And that's OK. Keep in mind that this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. Patience is a virtue.


  • One or two bad grades in your app isn't going to kill you. Neither will parking tickets. Schools don't care about your parking tickets either.


  • Not all IAs will kill you either, especially if they occurred when you were young and stupid, and now have grown. AdCom members were young and stupid once too. But the key thing is to own your transgressions, and don’t make excuses for them.


  • If you have a felony in your background (especially a crime against a person), or multiple offenses, especially DUI, stop right now. Your medical career is over.


  • In light of the above, even if you have had your juvenile records sealed, expunged, or sent to the Planet Zool, do a background check to make sure they’re really sealed. Not all of these things disappear, and if there’s any hint that you’re hiding something, you can be rejected, have your acceptance rescinded (it’s happened) or be expelled. Be truthful. You get a box to explain things. Explain well and OWN your transgressions; learn from them as well.


  • If you have an institutional action (IA) for cheating, stop right now. Your medical career is over. Now, there's cheating and then there’s cheating. Plagiarism is not the same as merely forgetting some footnotes. Having someone take an exam for you is, well, lethal.
  • A cheating IA means you should either find another career or first engage in 5-10 years of some honest, virtuous position of responsibility.


  • Always have a backup plan.


  • Know what's in your app. Do NOT lie. Do NOT embellish. If you did research, know what it was about.


  • If you're still collecting LORs, simply ask "do you know me well enough to write me a good LOR?"


  • It's OK to have had a poor semester, or even a poor year, if you have overcome that with straight A’s since then. People believe in redemption, and let's face it, we like come from behind stories.


  • This process is not a zero-sum game. If you have a 3.5 GPA, and your cousin Jane has a 3.7, you're still competitive. You're not competing for the same seat, just a seat.



    "Where do I apply?"
    My rough rule of thumb:
    MCAT > 36 (518) and GPA > 3.6: anywhere.
    GPA >3.5; MCAT <35 (515) all except high tier schools
    GPA >3.4, MCAT < 33 (511), lower tier

    Look up and use the LizzyM score, or consider WedgeDawg’s rubric:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/wedgedawgs-applicant-rating-system.1131149/

    MCAT < 29 (505-507), newest schools only (except Va Tech, Hofstra and Central MI..the latter wants in-state only).
    MCAT <27 (504): strongly suggest re-take.


    The minimum MCAT ideally should be 30 with 10/10/10 or a 510 on the new exam.


    And to all of you, good luck!

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Thanks for the writeup @Goro! I do have a question though.

If you don't have your MCAT in (or some other crucial requirement), it's OK to start applying. The verification process can take a long time, so if you can get that out of the way, so much the better. Apply to an unrealistic reach school, not your dream or favorite.

I have typically heard to apply to your state school when you are submitting your primary application without your MCAT. Why are you suggesting to apply to an unrealistic reach school instead?
 
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@Goro, what do you think is the latest that a reasonable (non-superstar) candidate could apply DO?
 
Many thanks for catching the numbers error; I have fixed that.

While Admission Deans may know the caliber of schools, most Adcom members will not. While I know that Rice is an excellent school with a rotten football team to prove it, other faculty colleagues will not know this, and see a 3.4 and merely think "not a good GPA".

Some people will also think "a 3.4 is a 3.4 is a 3.4" no matter what school produced the student.

@Goro
Thanks for the guide! One thing you might want to note is a 36 is a 518 on the new scale, whereas a 516 is closer to a ~34.
Also, regarding the 3.4 GPA, I'd say that would be true if you didn't go to a school that has a strong undergraduate reputation. Some UGs have median GPAs for their successful students, which are substantially lower than the national MD matriculant by 0.2+


My mistake; I misread something my wise colleague gonnif posted. I will fix.

I have typically heard to apply to your state school when you are submitting your primary application without your MCAT. Why are you suggesting to apply to an unrealistic reach school instead?
 
Third time reading this in 3 years. Finally applying and I feel like I know it all already. I guess that's a good thing.
 
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Thanks for the writeup @Goro! I do have a question though.



I have typically heard to apply to your state school when you are submitting your primary application without your MCAT. Why are you suggesting to apply to an unrealistic reach school instead?
Your state school is valuable. It is often the school most likely to accept you. It is one of your most important "Safety" schools. If your MCAT score comes back low, you will 1) release those scores to the school automatically and 2) become a reapplicant if you withdraw from the cycle. You don't want either happening to your most valuable school.
 
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Your state school is valuable. It is often the school most likely to accept you. It is one of your most important "Safety" schools. If your MCAT score comes back low, you will 1) release those scores to the school automatically and 2) become a reapplicant if you withdraw from the cycle. You don't want either happening to your most valuable school.

That's great to know! Glad I read this before submitting my application. :)
 
The Gospel according to St. Goro.

Let us pray (for the incoming applicants).
 
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FWIW, I have a friend who is applying as well and has a DUI on his record. He emailed a couple of schools and asked them how he should report it. They told him that he should wait until he had an acceptance and that each student gets a chance to disclose anything before the background check is done. In the state he got the DUI, it is neither a misdemeanor nor a felony but actually a traffic violation. I'm curious as to what the consensus is here? Is a DUI really a death sentence?
 
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Your state school is valuable. It is often the school most likely to accept you. It is one of your most important "Safety" schools. If your MCAT score comes back low, you will 1) release those scores to the school automatically and 2) become a reapplicant if you withdraw from the cycle. You don't want either happening to your most valuable school.

Being a reapplicant isn't the WORST thing ever. In fact, the state next to mine accepts 30% of their class from reapplicants. That could be an exception though. I'm definitely not applying to my state school until I see my score.


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So don't apply to U HI just because you'd love to go to med school in HI
lolling bc i did literally just that. right before i submitted apps, i thought, "it would be nice to go to hawaii" and added it last second.
 
"Don't use your PS to explain why you got bad grades. It's for "Who are you?” for "Why Medicine?" and how you got to that decision."
Will it be ok- if, in one part of my essay, I describe about my experience (through a difficult time (or obstacle) that I overcame) and talk about why that obstacle and mistake resulted in lower grades (along with why medicine and my passions?)
 
That's better saved foe the common secondary prompts that ask about stuff like this.

Trying to explain bad things about your grades in secondaries always read like excuses to me.



"Don't use your PS to explain why you got bad grades. It's for "Who are you?” for "Why Medicine?" and how you got to that decision."
Will it be ok- if, in one part of my essay, I describe about my experience (through a difficult time (or obstacle) that I overcame) and talk about why that obstacle and mistake resulted in lower grades (along with why medicine and my passions?)
 
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@Goro
That's better saved foe the common secondary prompts that ask about stuff like this.

Trying to explain bad things about your grades in secondaries always read like excuses to me.

Even if its a legitimate reason, you would still view it as an excuse? should we just not talk about it altogether?
 
The PS is for explaining why you want to be in medicine
it is not for explaining issues that may have affected your academic record, whatever those reasons may be.
Sorry @gonnif, I meant in the secondary, not the PS.
 
I've seen advice on here that it's ok to submit LORs as late as August as long as you submit your primary early. Can you still get an II without LORs or are you at a disadvantage?
 
I've seen advice on here that it's ok to submit LORs as late as August as long as you submit your primary early. Can you still get an II without LORs or are you at a disadvantage?
LORs are a part of the secondary, not the primary.

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LORs are a part of the secondary, not the primary.

Sent from my SM-G925V using SDN mobile

So even if you're not complete (have submitted secondary, but not LOR), can you still get a II. Or do schools only look at your app after everything is in?
 
LORs are a part of the secondary, not the primary.
What are you talking about? You literally identify your LORs individually on the primary. No secondary asks about LORs.

To answer the original question, no school is going to give you an II without reading your LORs. Tell your writers to get them in by first week of August. Hard deadline, it helps their planning too. That being said, what you're reading is probably people saying that IF your letters wind up being late, it's okay. Not going to be the deciding factor unless they come in like October lol
 
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What are you talking about? You literally identify your LORs individually on the primary. No secondary asks about LORs.

Yes you can identify your LORs and which schools they go to before you submit your primary, but no school will care during initial screening. When you submit your secondary is when your letters need to be in, and you can add and assign letters all the way until AMCAS closes in 2017.

And quite a few schools do ask about LORs in the secondary (for whatever reason).

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  • The “diversity” prompt for secondaries (as in "How will you add to the diversity of our class"?) is NOT about your ethnic background. It’s about what unique thing do you bring to the entering Class? Think of it this way: if I asked your three best friends “what’s the coolest thing about you?” what would they say?

Does this mean we should not write about cultural diversity? I had some cool stuff in my family that I wanted to talk about that I couldnt in my personal statement (length constraints)
 
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Pay attention: Trying to explain bad things about your grades in secondaries always read like excuses to me.

Unless it was a really bad grade. I had an F on a transcript and not explaining that would have been weird as hell. But for a string of C's or something, I'm not sure what can possibly be explained. That being said, I owned my part in why I got an F. I think a lot of applicants might accidentally make it sound as if they were making excuses.

I think going with the template of "1. What happened 2. what you should have done 3. what will you do to make sure this never happens again " is a good way to talk about bad grades.

EDIT: And off topic but I just had to talk about this in this thread, even if it's jumping the gun a bit. PLEASE be courteous to EVERYONE on interviews. I heard some really sad stories about interviewees ganging up and making fun of other applicants and stuff, and it was really disheartening.
 
@Goro would your advice then be to just say nothing about bad grades unless asked directly in an interview?
 
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@Goro would your advice then be to just say nothing about bad grades unless asked directly in an interview?
This is also my suggestion. Watching a premed explain away a C is one of the most pathetic conversations I've heard (at a mock interview, though). Just plain pitiful and pathetic. Few people have real excuses that warrant special mention like death of a loved one before test or debilitating disease (not self-diagnosed depression). Even if they had one of those and it affected like TWO grades out of 40, is it mature judgment to spend precious application space explaining that? No, it is not.
 
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My situation is more a bunch of low grades in my first couple years followed by a bunch of straight As.
 
Some tips for you. Grab a cup of coffee, pull up a chair.

  • Applying early is good. The earlier, the better. But don’t freak out if you’re not submitting by end of July. Most Admissions deans don’t get started at work until after Labor Day. By end of September, it's probably too late for MD schools (unless you’re a stellar candidate), but FYI, the DO cycle is longer (up to Dec or even Jan!) I'll make some DO-specific posts in the pre-osteopathic forum later.

  • Do NOT apply to a school that you don't want to go to. It's one thing to not like a place after an interview, but, really, do your homework.
  • Think about where the schools are. Mayo and Rochester are not merely cold in the winter, but Siberian cold. Tulane, on the other hand, is hot and sauna-like in the summer (but with great food). Consider your support groups, if you're leaving home for the first time. I literally have lost students to homesickness.


  • If you don't have your MCAT in (or some other crucial requirement), it's OK to start applying. The verification process can take a long time, so if you can get that out of the way, so much the better. Apply to an unrealistic reach school.


  • Don't know where to apply? Do your homework. MSAR Online is a mandatory resource. The money it will save you from not applying to even one wrong school (for you) will more than make up for the cost of MSAR.


  • More and more med schools accept CC credits. Again, MSAR is useful in telling you who does, and who doesn't take the coursework. Here's a rule of thumb.


    -If you go to a CC and then to a UG school, that's fine.
    -If you go to a CC as a non-trad to get the pre-reqs, for for grade repair as a DIY post-bac, that's also fine.
    -If it appears that you're avoiding your UG school's rigorous weeding courses by taking them at CCs, then that's going to raise some eyebrows.


  • Apply strategically! What I mean is look over the MCAT AND GPAs of the schools you're interested in, and apply to those whose median scores are close to your own. Do NOT apply to a school if your numbers are <10th percentile of matriculants. The people who get into Yale with a 29 MCAT are either URM, legacies, veterans, or have something really spectacular about their story.


  • My suggestion is that if you're 2-3 points below the school's median, you're in striking distance, but consider your numbers carefully. Apply smart and apply once. But the higher the pole you want to climb, the slipperier it will get.


  • In light of the above, there's "reach", and then there's "unrealistic". Be realistic.


  • If your GPA is under 3.4, I recommend NOT applying now, unless you live in an area where the state schools have their 10th-90th percentiles stretching down to 3.3. An example is U AR or U MO-KC. Better to take a post-bac or SMP and get the GPA into a competitive zone. Oh, and I'm not impressed with the n=1 stories of "my cousin got into Harvard with a 3.0 GPA". There always will be outliers.
  • If you do well in a SMP/post-bac (GPA >3.6 AND have a MCAT > 33), then there are med schools that reward reinvention, even if your cGPA is <3.4! Search for my other posts for lists of those.


  • A great GPA is not going to make up for a poor MCAT, and vice versa.


  • The average MD matriculant nationwide has a GPA of 3.69 +/- 0.25 for the past few years and an MCAT of 31 (roughly 509-511 on the new exam). Remember these numbers.


  • Know your target schools, beyond the numbers. Many schools are mission driven, like Howard, UCR, SIU, Mercer and Central Michigan.


  • Look up how many public schools accept out-of-state students, and what percentage are these of the class? MSAR tells you this in the Acceptance Information tab. Many schools (ex. Mercer, UND, USD, U NM, LSU, U MS) will highly favor in-state residents, to the exclusion of OOSers. Those OOS students taken at, say, U IA or U AL, most likely come from neighboring states. So don't apply to U HI just because you'd love to go to med school in HI. Have the bona fides for HI. My rule of thumb is if >10-20% of the matriculants are from OOS, it might be worth applying. But be > avg.


  • In that vein, think very carefully about "ties" to a state. Growing up in a place and then moving away is fine. Wife's family lives there? Not fine.


  • Have as any eyeballs as possible go over your app. There's no excuse for spelling, grammar or thoughtless mistakes on your PS. And for God's sake, when you cut and paste, remove school A's name and replace it with B for the app for school B. As in sports, where the team that makes more mistakes will lose, the apps with the fewest mistakes get received kindly.


  • Don't use your PS to explain why you got bad grades. It's for "Who are you?” for "Why Medicine?" and how you got to that decision.


  • Do NOT write in your PS or secondary about what you think we want to see...write about your passions and what drives you. Write about what makes you interesting.
  • The “diversity” prompt for secondaries (as in "How will you add to the diversity of our class"?) is NOT about your ethnic background. It’s about what unique thing do you bring to the entering Class? Think of it this way: if I asked your three best friends “what’s the coolest thing about you?” what would they say?
  • Give some serious thought to the “Tell us about a time you failed” or “What is the biggest obstacle that you overcame?” prompts of secondaries. I believe a lot of people get weeded out by this one for being superficial, or coming across as over privileged. Yes, I know some of you have charmed lives, but if the biggest hurt in your life was getting a C or B for the first time, that’s not going to go down very well. Not everyone goes experiences the death of a loved one, or goes through something traumatic, but really, what has challenged you the most? Moving away from home to go to college? Dealing with people of a very different culture? Confronting your own prejudices? These prompts are valuable because they make you think about yourself. Remember, to those who are given much, much is expected.


  • So avoid writing something that would make a screener or interviewer think "that's it??" A example would be “I’m diverse because I went o school with lots of Asian kids”
  • If English is NOT your native language, have some native English speakers go over your app.


  • Many schools send out secondaries whether you're competitive or not. They can be a tax on the hopelessly clueless, or over-optimistic.


  • Have the right ECs. You need ECs. There are tons of people on SDN who bitch and moan about them. Well, tough. Each school gets thousands of apps for some 100-250 seats. How do we winnow down the pool? The answer is something that hyperachievers with no people skills hate hearing: you have display your altruism and humanity, your willingness to serve others, that you know what you're getting into, and that you know what a doctor's day is like.

  • It's not only about GPA and MCATs...it's about the rest of the packet. All the people you're competing with are academically clones of each other. So the guy with 1000 hrs in the lab and 100 hrs shadowing (and who thinks shadowing counts as volunteering) but no other clinical experience doesn't know what he's getting into, hasn't shown anything altruistic and will be passed over for someone who reads to poor children, or brings coffee to the dialysis patients in hospice. 4.0 automatons are a dime-a-dozen. Stats may get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.
  • Always keep in mind that it's about what med schools want, not what you want. An in the end, it's about the patients.

  • If you're doing this because your parents are pressuring you to do it, stop right now, grow a spine and/or some balls, and tell them that this isn't for you. You'll just save yourself a lot of misery later. Better yet, get them accounts on SDN so they can see what it takes to get into med school.


  • It's a scary process. And that's OK. Keep in mind that this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. Patience is a virtue.


  • One or two bad grades in your app isn't going to kill you. Neither will parking tickets. Schools don't care about your parking tickets either.


  • Not all IAs will kill you either, especially if they occurred when you were young and stupid, and now have grown. AdCom members were young and stupid once too. But the key thing is to own your transgressions, and don’t make excuses for them.


  • If you have a felony in your background (especially a crime against a person), or multiple offenses, especially DUI, stop right now. Your medical career is over.


  • In light of the above, even if you have had your juvenile records sealed, expunged, or sent to the Planet Zool, do a background check to make sure they’re really sealed. Not all of these things disappear, and if there’s any hint that you’re hiding something, you can be rejected, have your acceptance rescinded (it’s happened) or be expelled. Be truthful. You get a box to explain things. Explain well and OWN your transgressions; learn from them as well.


  • If you have an institutional action (IA) for cheating, stop right now. Your medical career is over. Now, there's cheating and then there’s cheating. Plagiarism is not the same as merely forgetting some footnotes. Having someone take an exam for you is, well, lethal.
  • A cheating IA means you should either find another career or first engage in 5-10 years of some honest, virtuous position of responsibility.


  • Always have a backup plan.


  • Know what's in your app. Do NOT lie. Do NOT embellish. If you did research, know what it was about.


  • If you're still collecting LORs, simply ask "do you know me well enough to write me a good LOR?"


  • It's OK to have had a poor semester, or even a poor year, if you have overcome that with straight A’s since then. People believe in redemption, and let's face it, we like come from behind stories.


  • This process is not a zero-sum game. If you have a 3.5 GPA, and your cousin Jane has a 3.7, you're still competitive. You're not competing for the same seat, just a seat.



    "Where do I apply?"
    My rough rule of thumb:
    MCAT > 36 (518) and GPA > 3.6: anywhere.
    GPA >3.5; MCAT <35 (515) all except high tier schools
    GPA >3.4, MCAT < 33 (511), lower tier

    Look up and use the LizzyM score, or consider WedgeDawg’s rubric:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/wedgedawgs-applicant-rating-system.1131149/

    MCAT < 29 (505-507), newest schools only (except Va Tech, Hofstra and Central MI..the latter wants in-state only).
    MCAT <27 (504): strongly suggest re-take.


    The minimum MCAT ideally should be 30 with 10/10/10 or a 510 on the new exam.


    And to all of you, good luck!

Lorde Goro,

Is there a way to find out exactly what schools are 'mission based'? Every school has a mission statement on the MSAR, but few of them like Rush are specifically service oriented, etc.

I have used the search bar and looked at your old posts, but is there any definitive list of "Our mission to do X comes first. Stats are secondary" schools?
 
Yes. There are some secondary prompts that ask for these types of things directly, and other prompts are like "anything else you want to tell us?"

Just to clarify - you would or would not mention the grades in "tell us anything else" type prompts?
 
Go to their websites?

Offhand, you have specific regional missions:
Mercer
SIU
TCMC
Va Tech
UCR
U SD
U ND
CUNY Med
East TN
NEOMED

These like overall service:
Netter
Gtown
Tulane
Rush
Loyola
Creighton

Service for minority populations:
the HBCs

Religiously based:
Loma Linda


Is there a way to find out exactly what schools are 'mission based'? Every school has a mission statement on the MSAR, but few of them like Rush are specifically service oriented, etc.

I have used the search bar and looked at your old posts, but is there any definitive list of "Our mission to do X comes first. Stats are secondary" schools?



I would use the prompt, especially when one has a bad semester or year. But a single F? That's being overanxious to explain. Save that for interviews, or unless there is a prompt specifically asking about poor academic performance.

Just to clarify - you would or would not mention the grades in "tell us anything else" type prompts?
 
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So, I saw your rough rule of thumb is if you are MCAT > 36 (518) and GPA > 3.6, can generally apply anywhere. I have a 3.65 and 519, but some of the reach schools that I am interested in have 10th percentile GPAs of 3.7. Should I still take those off my list for being a bad stats fit?
 
A 519 MCAT score is nothing to sneeze at. If you have a good research EC, aim high. Somebody has to be in the < 10th %ile, why not you? Did you have a good rising GPA trend? That also helps.

If you wish to be more conservative, play the field as follows:

Pitt OR Northwestern
NYU OR Sinai
Harvard OR Yale

etc

Definitely have these:
Your state schools
Emory
Hofstra
Rochester
Dartmouth
Keck
BU



So, I saw your rough rule of thumb is if you are MCAT > 36 (518) and GPA > 3.6, can generally apply anywhere. I have a 3.65 and 519, but some of the reach schools that I am interested in have 10th percentile GPAs of 3.7. Should I still take those off my list for being a bad stats fit?
 
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@Goro Wouldn't a 514 be considered a 33 and a 508 a 30? From what I've seen posted a 510 translates to a 31-32.

Also, what would you suggest for those who fall in between categories (GPA>3.5 but <33)? I'm guessing the "apply to all except high tier schools" applies.

GPA >3.5; MCAT <35 (515) all except high tier schools
GPA >3.4, MCAT < 33 (511), lower tier

TIA!
 
Best to apply to schools whose median stats are closest to your own, and have a window of 0.2 GPA points and 2-3 MCAT points. Keep in mind that your chances will be best at your state school, unless you live in CA.


@Goro Wouldn't a 514 be considered a 33 and a 508 a 30? From what I've seen posted a 510 translates to a 31-32.

Also, what would you suggest for those who fall in between categories (GPA>3.5 but <33)? I'm guessing the "apply to all except high tier schools" applies.

GPA >3.5; MCAT <35 (515) all except high tier schools
GPA >3.4, MCAT < 33 (511), lower tier

TIA!
 
Out of curiosity, is 511 considered a 33 or a 31? On your Avg MD matriculation, you suggested 511 falls within range of 31 but in your rule of thumb for applying you listed 33 (511).

Secondly, duke, washu, and chicago would be considered high tier schools right?
 
A 519 MCAT score is nothing to sneeze at. If you have a good research EC, aim high. Somebody has to be in the < 10th %ile, why not you? Did you have a good rising GPA trend? That also helps.

If you wish to be more conservative, play the field as follows:

Pitt OR Northwestern
NYU OR Sinai
Harvard OR Yale

etc

Definitely have these:
Your state schools
Emory
Hofstra
Rochester
Dartmouth
Keck
BU

I have a MS in Chemistry and 8 years total research experience, 3.83 grad GPA and 3.75 undergrad sGPA. Glad to see many of the schools that I have already picked on that list! I do have a past MCAT from 2011 which was a 28. I'm definitely hoping to attend a research-focused school.

Thank you for your reply!

EDIT: GPA was pretty consistent every year of UG
 
@Ehwic I was wondering the same thing.

Just out of curiosity @Goro

1) Which schools would you consider high-tier and which ones would you consider mid-tier?

2) Should we be applying to schools where our GPA and MCAT fall within 0.2 and 2-3 of the median respectively, but a single subsection score falls either at or below the 10%. I ask because I have heard multiple things about how ADCOMs will look at the new mcat and there is no updated data on MSAR.
 
Ask five people about this and you're going to get six answers.

My picks for the top tier:

Harvard
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
U Chicago
U Penn
U VA
U MI
UCSF
Baylor
JHU
Pitt
Northwestern
NYU
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Sinai
Cornell
Duke


Medium tiers:

USC/Keck
Case
Mayo
Hofstra
Rochester
Emory
Dartmouth
Albert Einstein
Emory
BU
UCLA
UCSD
U IA

1) Which schools would you consider high-tier and which ones would you consider mid-tier?

It's going to depend upon the school. VR/CARS will probably get cut the most slack, Bio the least, but individual screeners or Adcom members will have their own prejudices.


2) Should we be applying to schools where our GPA and MCAT fall within 0.2 and 2-3 of the median respectively, but a single subsection score falls either at or below the 10%. I ask because I have heard multiple things about how ADCOMs will look at the new mcat and there is no updated data on MSAR.[/QUOTE]
 
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