- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Messages
- 99
- Reaction score
- 96
I'm finishing up organic lab in my very last semester. Pre reqs are light-years easier as a senior, I'm crushing these kiddos
Got Caught Cheating on Exam, Is my pre-med career over?
- Thread starter throwawaycheater
- Start date
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 9,906
- Reaction score
- 10,039
I too took a low level intro organic course, when I was in high school. I still got rocked by ochem 2. Ochem 1 wasn't that bad, but Ochem 2...
I'd just wait until you take the real thing before brushing off the course that a ton of pre-meds struggle with. And maybe ochem just makes sense to you and you do well in the regular courses. I got A+'s in both semesters of calc-based physics, but I know a lot of people struggle with physics, so I'm not going to say it was easy and straightforward just because physics makes sense to me.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2013
- Messages
- 623
- Reaction score
- 242
"Sorry" works.
Go to the professor and say exactly what was said in the OP. The tone was perfect. Admit mistake, explain why but say that's not an excuse. Offer contrition and any possible form of amends. Take an F for the class to avoid the ethics violation.
The trickier question is how to explain the F later. Do you admit to getting caught cheating? Make up a story? You'll have to explain it, for sure.
http://www.antivaccinebodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2013
- Messages
- 229
- Reaction score
- 252
I think compassion goes both ways. What if the next impulsive decision is when he's treating my best friend or my sister? Other bad/stressful things are going to happen to OP. I don't think he's a bad person just not someone adcoms are going to want holding a life in his hands.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2013
- Messages
- 623
- Reaction score
- 242
I got my JD from a big, respectable state university law school. Cheating was rampant. As an undergrad it never bothered me because so few classes were norm-referenced to the class section you were sitting in. But law school clings to their absurd, archaic ways, and one of them is that every single exam, in every single class is norm-referenced against the kids sitting in the room with you. And the cheating made my blood boil since those were kids directly harming my performance through their dishonesty.
I think there's just a fundamental difference between certain people's temperaments and life-outlook when it comes to stuff like that. Some people just go to "cheat" or to "get advantage however I can" in life and others don't. They're less risk-averse, more selfish, whatever you wanna call it. But whereas I (and it sounds like you) react to a stressor by going "oh this is hard, so I need to work very hard to succeed" other people's gut reaction is "oh this is hard how do I dodge this or make it easy on myself".
Not to be overly stereotypical about it, but it kind of didn't surprise me that there were a lot more of the latter type of people in law school 😛
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
Loved General Chemistry hated Organic Chemistry, mainly bc I have difficulty visualizing organic chem structures in 3-D.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
Not at all. The point is that there are TONS of applicants who don't have cheating issues, and right now medical school is a seller's market. Esp. now w/the emphasis on "professionalism" by medical school faculty, OP has blackballed himself if this incident is put as an IA on his transcript.
Not saying he hasn't; I'm just arguing that everyone on here saying that the OP wouldn't be trustworthy around patients is unnecessarily smug. The system works how the system works and I am not commenting on the admissions process. I AM commenting on the people who suggest that the OP is inherently somehow less worthy than those of us who made our impulsive and unprofessional decisions in other areas. This is not only smug and hypocritical, but hurtful to the OP. That's all I'm saying. He doesn't need to hear right now how his "dishonorable ass" should be kicked out and that nobody would want him treating their sibling. To be honest, I wouldn't want IlDestriero as my doctor if this is how he treats somebody in distress, unless his comment was one of his impulsive unprofessional moments. 😉 Which we all have occasionally, and which I understand, and which I won't hold against somebody (so we're cool, IlDestriero!).
With that, I'm off of this thread! I think it's been hijacked enough.
With that, I'm off of this thread! I think it's been hijacked enough.
OP, someone very close to me is a teacher. One of the greatest satisfaction a teacher could have is seeing how students learn from their mistakes, make that as a turning point and become a better person in the future.
I won't pass any judgement on you. You have realized you did a grave mistake and already beat yourself up. You are also doing the right thing to own your failure. It takes a mature person to own up, learn from shortcomings and to move forward. Contrition and humility go along way in life. Having done a mistake will make you more compassionate to other people's imperfection.
It's a bitter learning experience.. I know for me, one the times when I learned the most was when I messed up and was given second chance to make up for it.
Be open to receive any consequences. I hope you can still pursue your medical career, but even if it didn't go your way, I wish you the best, OP.
I won't pass any judgement on you. You have realized you did a grave mistake and already beat yourself up. You are also doing the right thing to own your failure. It takes a mature person to own up, learn from shortcomings and to move forward. Contrition and humility go along way in life. Having done a mistake will make you more compassionate to other people's imperfection.
It's a bitter learning experience.. I know for me, one the times when I learned the most was when I messed up and was given second chance to make up for it.
Be open to receive any consequences. I hope you can still pursue your medical career, but even if it didn't go your way, I wish you the best, OP.
My orgo 1 professor was the seat of the chem department, she was harsh. She would laugh during our exams. Long story short just like everyone else said, apologize and ask how you can prove to her it wont happen again.
When she laughed during the exams, did she rub her hands together with an evil, wild look in her eyes?
LOLI never understood professors like this. Education is about growth and understanding. A course can be challenging, but that's different than making it torture. Whatever. I had a microb professor that was clearly carrying a grudge b/c he didn't make it into med. school--and it was in part due to a serious illness. At the end of the day, I honestly felt worse for him than the students. Some people get bitter after tragedy and hard situations, and some get better. I killed his written exam; which was WOW-and I had to literally write it--pages--talk about hand cramp. I think it just about killed him to give me an A. Later, though, I found out he had some more tragedy with one of his children. Humans are complicated.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
Professors as a whole find premeds to be insufferable. Exhibit A: Pre-Allo of SDN. Are there PhD professors who didn't make it to med school and did teaching instead. Maybe. I think it's just less than what people think.When she laughed during the exams, did she rub her hands together with an evil, wild look in her eyes?
I never understood professors like this. Education is about growth and understanding. A course can be challenging, but that's different than making it torture. Whatever. I had a microb professor that was clearly carrying a grudge b/c he didn't make it into med. school--and it was in part due to a serious illness. At the end of the day, I honestly felt worse for him than the students. Some people get bitter after tragedy and hard situations, and some get better. I killed his written exam; which was WOW-and I had to literally write it--pages--talk about hand cramp. I think it just about killed him to give me an A. Later, though, I found out he had some more tragedy with one of his children. Humans are complicated.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2013
- Messages
- 623
- Reaction score
- 242
Ding ding!
And we have a winner. jl lin has won the thread. Pack it up and head to the after party.
D
deleted407021
OP's been quiet. I wonder how he's taking the news.
Wait. You are making a blanket statement that everyone has cheated in college--and it's about being unlucky?
Even if this were true, which it is not, it has NOTHING to do with luck.
See go ahead and laugh, but some of us really believe that there is nothing that we do that is missed by God. And even if you totally don't believe that, consider this. Everywhere you go, pretty much, there are videos watching you--this is definitely true in the hospital. This is true in various offices and clinics. Heck, this is true in patients' homes where they received care, evaluation, and treatment from nurses. In the hospitals, for example, many intensive care units, you are watched like a hawk--even whilst others are busy with their own patients and situations. On the computer, every keystroke is monitored. And there are usually always people that can hear what you say and are like a little bird that can carry it to someone else. Things can be misinterpreted or even correctly understood: eg., "That fat, ugly, drug-seeking biatch is a @#$%ing waste of my life." Mouth off like that, yes. That may well come back to haunt you.
Heck, I have had patients in comas that were not expected to live. While orienting new RNs to cases can be tricky. One young stud RN thought that he was a cute smart azz and was very flip and disrespectful with the, then, comatose patient. I gave him the 411 on being very careful, b/c patients will surprise, and later the will recall what you said or did. 5 days later the lady awoke, quiet unexpectedly, and began to speak. She saw him (stud RN) and looked at me and said, "I do not want him as my nurse." She was adamant. She remembered his disrespectfulness of her.
Now I say all this to make a point. What we do ALWAYS has consequences. We may not even see them right away. But that is a sobering thought to a healthcare provider or physician--at least it should be.
OP, I don't give up on you; but never, ever assume that the consequences of your actions will not come back to visit you. You may get away with a thing or two; but now you risk developing a pattern--a pattern that will determining who you are, which is more than a title. It's a lot about what we do and why. Is this who you want to be?
Seriously, this is about some old fashioned repentance. I don't know what they will say or what your restitution will be; but a mere "I'm sorry" isn't going to make people believe you have changed. It's a start, but you have your work cut out for you. When you lose trust and credibility, you lose A LOT, and no 4.0 will ever make up for that.
Success means that you need to have the integrity not to screw up what you have done. A poor grade is not worse than poor integrity. None of us is perfect, but you have to find a way to make this right. You have to sit and talk with the dean.
BTW, people that cheat and seem to get away with it will ultimately have to realize that cheating is not a viable game plan. Are you going to cheat on med school exams, shelves, steps, board exams?? It's a no brainer that this approach cannot work in the long run. Plus, you have to live with feeling like a fake.
Last edited:
Sure. Point is, it happens. When I was in nursing school, professors would say that the hooking up between nurses and doctors was low. LOL. Whatever. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen a lot more than people know.
People are, yea, complicated, and sometimes stupid about what they do. Anyone with half a brain knows that mixing work and um pleasure is going to give you problems in most situations. But everyone thinks they are the exception and not the consequential rule.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
Uh, your professors weren't too smart then. It happens a lot - esp. in the surgery specialties where residents are working very long and hard hours in the hospital with high stress and residents need lovin that's quick.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2014
- Messages
- 49
- Reaction score
- 110
I don't think there are many successful academics who got where they were simply because they couldn't hack in in the med school admissions process...earning a tenured faculty position is no easy task, and it requires a lot of passion and commitment in its own right.
As someone who's taught a bit in a college environment with lots of pre-med/pre-law/pre-vet types, I think the premed hate is mostly tied to the immense amount of frustration that this type of student can generate. It's annoying when a student fights for every single missed point in a 2000 point course, for example. Also, (certain) pre-professional students are way less interested in learning stuff, per se, then they are in getting A's. They're the ones who are always asking whether something's going to be on the test, and if you ever answer 'NO' their eyes glaze over as they pull out their phones. It's disheartening to see that lack of curiosity in a college student, especially since these students tend to be pretty smart. I know not every pre-med/pre-law/pre-vet is like this, but enough are that everyone gets tarred with that brush.
In contrast, some of the best students are engineering students. I think this is because they're smart students in a program where grades matter a lot less, so they'll actually take courses that interest them and try to get something out of them.
I don't either. I wasn't saying that. I am sorry. Somehow, I think I gave the wrong impression. Point is, the fellow could be a major hardazz at times; but as I said. He, like most people, is/are complicated. He had other issues besides the med school thing. I don't hold grudges against people. I may learn as Maya Angelou stated--about believing what people show you. But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater with people. It's a tough tightrope to work sometimes.
But no. I didn't mean by any means to imply, lol, that most professors are out to get those accepted to med school. That would just be ridiculous. I do think the evil, "Let's get em." approach to education is just, idiotic. I'm not about turning people off to learning--quite the opposite. At the same time, yes. Some people just look at everything that is hard or uninteresting to them and decide it's drudgery. I look at learning stuff as like an archeological dig. I think to be a good learner, you have to be a genuinely curious person, willing to get in there in get your hands dirty.
OMG, true DV. I worked CT surgery ICU for years. Um, yea. People "got busy" a lot there. My neck would start to hurt always looking the other way on that. LOL. And the long hours and working closely with each other is a big issue. Yea, I was married and I was still flirted with a lot. Had a number of marriage proposals. But it's also fun yet safer to flirt with the straight-laced nurse. She's going to keep you in line, b/c flirting itself is a game. I actually left a great job b/c of this kind of thing--nothing against the people. It just go to be too distracting. I loved the people I worked with and that job, but you have to do what you have to do. That's another thread leading to a hot novel. LOL
6
625233
DENY DENY DENY!!!!!!! I've learned my lesson from high school! DENY IT UNTIL YOU BELIEVE YOUR OWN LIE! Don't make it easy on them to stick it to you!! Ya ****ing *****!! Make sure they HAVE TO PROVE IT to the committeez
Seriously? I think the OP stated from the outset that the professor had proof. Still, um kind of messed up reply. Does taking the Billy Clinton approach really get you anywhere worthwhile?
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,071
- Reaction score
- 3,284
OP...do everything the opposite of what visibleghost is telling you to do...and you have a chance.
You may be kicked out of school over this...and lying about cheating may be the nail in that coffin for you. Apologize, take the F, tell them that you will get counseling for depression, and learn from you mistakes.
You may be kicked out of school over this...and lying about cheating may be the nail in that coffin for you. Apologize, take the F, tell them that you will get counseling for depression, and learn from you mistakes.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
It's natural. You have 2 people who are very stressed (nursing has its own stresses as well) and need to get it out and they do. I always had janitorial services change the blankets in the call room during internship for a reason bc of the prior person.
LOL.
D
deleted357625
You may have not read my other posts, noting it as a generalization, and it differs to the extent to which some would consider cheating. I guarantee there are many med students who have cheated in some manner before getting accepted and of course will never admit such a thing. And I guarantee applicants embellish/lie on their application a little bit to sound more appealing, is this horrible? No, I don't believe it's detrimental to anyone's overall, long-term character and y'all can cite all the fluff studies you want. I retract the wording "everybody," since it seems people tend to nitpick this word without understand the gist of what I was simply stating. People naturally do things to get ahead, doesn't necessarily mean some lose compassion for the work they love to do. Also, one would be assuming the best physicians in the world or all the "behavioral" studies of future medical students/physicians that maintain a good behavior long-term haven't cheated simply by stating they haven't. It's not the end of the world if one did. People lie and cheat, as to the extent, that of course matters in terms of how immoral the action is. Considering the competitive nature of medicine, of course I can see how cheating will negatively affect you amongst people who haven't, however it can be remedied maybe by a gap year proving some sort of integrity and again doesn't necessarily define you long-term.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yea, what's a lawyer going to do? And especially if there is an academic honesty acceptance of behavior and consequence form, which the student probably signed. Again, there was no option at my university. You had to sign it--in various forms. You also had to use for every graded submission. Have people probably broken their word? Sure. But if they get caught, there is absolutely no defense, other than if they actually DID NOT do it--truly false accusation.
OP, I say deal with it. Go to professor and dean, admit your wrongdoing. Don't worry about if other people got away with it. They are not you OP. This is about you. If they want to be squirrely and it seems they have gotten away with for now, don't worry. Their ways will catch up with them sure as sunrise and sunset.
You have admitted you participated in this--on an open forum. You admitted even the course in which it happened. This is a greater lesson for you. Take the F, make restitution and ownership, and move on. This is not the end of your life. It is the beginning. You are and will be a better person for accepting this, learning from it, and moving onward. If this situation makes you a better person in the sense that you are willing to do your own work and accept responsibility, you will have won in the long run. Seems like you panicked under pressure. But you can be better than this. Good luck.
Last edited:
None of this has to do with the individual-you or the individual-OP, or the individual-me. That's what matters here. You, OP, and I, we can choose not to cheat.
Life is only going to let you cheat so much and so far. Study history. It's our friend. My power is to change what I can do with me. Plenty of people justify/rationalize many things--even very heinous things. The whole "others have done it a lot too" rationalization is as lame as road kill.
At the end of the day, you have to sleep and wake up with yourself. I worry about those that can push their conscience down or away--or those for whatever reason that seem not to have one. You can be the biggest genius ever. What value is it without conscience and internal integrity? At this point, the OP has to exercise his/her own soul and spirit and pray that he/she hasn't rendered them brain dead. Everything else is crap.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2007
- Messages
- 5,737
- Reaction score
- 5,490
Of course I was kidding. How could I possibly patronize hookers when I was on probation for getting caught the very first time I used cocaine.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 987
- Reaction score
- 233
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
So then who is the person that does it called?
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 987
- Reaction score
- 233
uh....... you got me
Sanitation Engineer? (joking) I've learned their names and try not to call them janitor.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2009
- Messages
- 17,237
- Reaction score
- 13,030
Well yeah, but I'm saying just like the occupations doctor, dentist, accountant, lawyer, etc. What would they be called? Of course you wouldn't refer to their occupation when addressing them.uh....... you got me
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2014
- Messages
- 987
- Reaction score
- 233
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I guess I don't know.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 861
- Reaction score
- 769
professor probably wants you to own up to your mistake and truly understand what you did here. In a class filled with students whose very careers might depend on passing this class or not, giving yourself an unfair advantage is clearly not ethical and shows extreme selfishness contradictory to the qualities of a future physician. I'm sorry to be blunt but there is no sugar coating this.
Pray that your teacher doesn't report it. Take the F and deal with IA's letter. Although I have to ask why didn't you just withdraw from the class if you were doing poorly to compel you to cheat?
W > F > IA
Pray that your teacher doesn't report it. Take the F and deal with IA's letter. Although I have to ask why didn't you just withdraw from the class if you were doing poorly to compel you to cheat?
W > F > IA
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2014
- Messages
- 257
- Reaction score
- 91
Cheating in orgo would actually require more effort than studying. You would have to stare and copy someone else's mechanism. That would require extraordinary vision, a long neck, and the added effort of not making it obvious.
.
.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2012
- Messages
- 348
- Reaction score
- 262
Haha that made me laugh. I actually like learning mechanisms in Ochem. Pure memorization to regurgitate. It's the concepts and naming of insanely complex compounds that kill me. Anyways, looking through this whole thread, I feel really bad for the OP. All we can say is to learn from that very grave mistake, whatever the consequences may be. I take it that IA in cheating is the equivalent to the mark of Cain in the academic world.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 1,556
- Reaction score
- 1,278
lol she walked with her hands behind her back. I think she was a bitter pre-med. Orgo 1 at my university is a huge weeder class. We started off with 500 kids in lecture. Dropped down to 100 by the end, and i remember her email saying that only 60 percent of us passed. Talk about harsh! sad part, i knew people in there that it was their third time repeating the classWhen she laughed during the exams, did she rub her hands together with an evil, wild look in her eyes?
I never understood professors like this. Education is about growth and understanding. A course can be challenging, but that's different than making it torture. Whatever. I had a microb professor that was clearly carrying a grudge b/c he didn't make it into med. school--and it was in part due to a serious illness. At the end of the day, I honestly felt worse for him than the students. Some people get bitter after tragedy and hard situations, and some get better. I killed his written exam; which was WOW-and I had to literally write it--pages--talk about hand cramp. I think it just about killed him to give me an A. Later, though, I found out he had some more tragedy with one of his children. Humans are complicated.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2013
- Messages
- 1,233
- Reaction score
- 247
didnt read the rest of the thread, but curious... how did you cheat?
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2013
- Messages
- 796
- Reaction score
- 913
Just a fun fact: one of my profs in college would use forensic techniques to prove cheating. Yep, she went that far.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2013
- Messages
- 613
- Reaction score
- 710
What exactly is a 'forensic technique'? The only thing that comes to mind is fingerprints, but I can't imagine why someone else's would be on yours (usually people just glance at someone else's exam).
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2013
- Messages
- 796
- Reaction score
- 913
This wasn't on a test but an assignment. She used a microscope to analyze some page markings and ink.
LOL. Prof goes into CSI mode.
“The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles, but to irrigate deserts.”
― C.S. Lewis
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2014
- Messages
- 278
- Reaction score
- 222
Any news OP? I realize it's only been a few days, but being at the tail end of a semester I would think something like this would be pushed through before winter break starts.
- Joined
- May 20, 2014
- Messages
- 354
- Reaction score
- 265
I agree. OChem 1 is logical, like mathematics. OChem 2 is a lot of memorization of products and reactants, since the actual mechanisms become too complex. I wasn't a big fan of Orgo 2. Still got an 'A' though, barely, and largely due to momentum from Orgo 1.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 1,556
- Reaction score
- 1,278
i always tell people take one immediately after the other dont.
D
deleted407021
Does he even care or have we been trolled?
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2014
- Messages
- 257
- Reaction score
- 91
I hope it is just a troll. Some people may not be able to handle this stress and should probably be under 24/7 watch to prevent them from doing the unthinkable.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2013
- Messages
- 796
- Reaction score
- 913
She really missed the point on that one. If memory serves, it was just a 20-30 point assignment too.
