GPA and OD success

[nvega13]

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Hi!

I just completed my first year of optometry school and didn't do as well as I had hoped (GPA approx. 3.2). Many people at my school are really competetive, and are always talking about having to do well so they can belong to BSK. I was just wondering how important are grades in optometry school as far as determining success, as well as salary, as a future optometrist? Also, which grades are important for determining fourth year externship placement and for doing a residency after you graduate?

Thank you!

 

[eyestrain]

I was just wondering how important are grades in optometry school as far as determining success, as well as salary, as a future optometrist?

As far as I know, not very important

 

[4Eyes]

From what I hear, there's pretty much no correllation.

It can matter with residency if you choose to pursue one, but there are a lot of other factors, and your GPA has a couple of years to go up, too. It really depends on the location. I know of former residents that got like a 306 on Part I of boards, and they were fine residents and fine doctors in general.

Here, grades played no role in landings 4th year externships as far as I know.

If it makes you feel any better...my first semester of school sucked grade-wise for some personal reasons. But after that the grades went up up UP....

So don't be discouraged. Also, sometimes the super competitive students can make a lot of noise. Just keep working hard and focus on the learning. You will be fine! 🙂

 

[Opii]

From what I hear, there's pretty much no correllation.

It can matter with residency if you choose to pursue one, but there are a lot of other factors, and your GPA has a couple of years to go up, too. It really depends on the location. I know of former residents that got like a 306 on Part I of boards, and they were fine residents and fine doctors in general.

Here, grades played no role in landings 4th year externships as far as I know.

If it makes you feel any better...my first semester of school sucked grade-wise for some personal reasons. But after that the grades went up up UP....

So don't be discouraged. Also, sometimes the super competitive students can make a lot of noise. Just keep working hard and focus on the learning. You will be fine! 🙂

Just stay out of probation. If you want to put your own practice your final GPA won't matter. If you want to go to residencies, heck, you don't even have to pass the boards, schools turn down real doctors for brown nosing students anyday.

 

[Ben Chudner]

As far as I know, not very important

In some cases, there is an inverse relationship between GPA and clinic success. When I graduated from Berkeley in the late 90's, some of the worst clinicians, especially in regards to how they related to patients, were the students with the highest GPA's.

 

[rpames]

In some cases, there is an inverse relationship between GPA and clinic success. When I graduated from Berkeley in the late 90's, some of the worst clinicians, especially in regards to how they related to patients, were the students with the highest GPA's.

I agree completely Dr. Chunder. Not all the 3.75+er were bad, but a strange number of them really stunk in clinic. Where as, the 3.0 guys were some of the best.

I have not heard of one student in my class having an interview when GPA came up.

Just stay off probation!

 

[r_salis]

Just stay off probation!

Does probation stay on your record? I thought it was just a "warning" of sorts.

 

[rpames]

Does probation stay on your record? I thought it was just a "warning" of sorts.

I have no idea. I just say stay off of probation b/c that just shows you are not trying hard enough. If you are smart enough to get in, you can at least maintain a 2.0.

 

[luckyfool]

so it's better to be "street smart" rather than "book smart". did i get it right?

 

[iheartojos]

I have no idea. I just say stay off of probation b/c that just shows you are not trying hard enough. If you are smart enough to get in, you can at least maintain a 2.0.

I read on their website that Berkeley is a 3.0, are there any other schools that have a 3.0 minimium?

 

[Opii]

Yes, some schools are 3.0 schools. Pacific is another one that comes to mind. They respect their students. They send their students out into the real world some decent transcripts to make the school look good. Any school out there giving out a high number of low grades is either trying to make money with their students by having them retake their classes over and over again in the summer, don't care about the image of the school, don't care about keeping a bond with their soon to be collegues, they shouldn't be surprised the students, after they graduate, snub that school never sending them allumni money.

 

[cpw]

Any school out there giving out a high number of low grades is either trying to make money with their students by having them retake their classes over and over again in the summer, don't care about the image of the school, don't care about keeping a bond with their soon to be collegues, they shouldn't be surprised the students, after they graduate, snub that school never sending them allumni money.

do you have any facts to back this up ? any at all ? I don't know of ANY school intentionally failing students to "make more money".

 

[cpw]

Hi!

I just completed my first year of optometry school and didn't do as well as I had hoped (GPA approx. 3.2). Many people at my school are really competetive, and are always talking about having to do well so they can belong to BSK. I was just wondering how important are grades in optometry school as far as determining success, as well as salary, as a future optometrist? Also, which grades are important for determining fourth year externship placement and for doing a residency after you graduate?

Thank you!

Being in BSK REALLY doesn't matter. I thought it did when I was in school, but once you're out no one even asks what your GPA was. The only reason I could see it being important is if you're trying to gun for a very competitive residency.

 

[rkl_OD2be]

I have no idea. I just say stay off of probation b/c that just shows you are not trying hard enough. If you are smart enough to get in, you can at least maintain a 2.0.

Wow...At UMSL, you're on probation for anything below 2.5...

 

[KHE]

Hi!

I just completed my first year of optometry school and didn't do as well as I had hoped (GPA approx. 3.2). Many people at my school are really competetive, and are always talking about having to do well so they can belong to BSK. I was just wondering how important are grades in optometry school as far as determining success, as well as salary, as a future optometrist? Also, which grades are important for determining fourth year externship placement and for doing a residency after you graduate?

Thank you!

I have not had to hire many ODs but the few times I have, GPA was not even on the radar screen of things to ask about. If you have a license to practice, you have more than enough knowledge to be a competent doctor.

What I was looking for was someone who could make the office money. And that means someone who is likeable, has a strong presence and carries themselves well so that they can relate to and interact well with patients and staff. That is much more important in getting yourself a good position than knowing minute details about serpiginous retiopathy or Eales disease.

 

[IndianaOD]

In some cases, there is an inverse relationship between GPA and clinic success. When I graduated from Berkeley in the late 90's, some of the worst clinicians, especially in regards to how they related to patients, were the students with the highest GPA's.

The latest issue of Optometric Education researched the link between GPAs and critical thinking skills (basically the largest determinate of providing good patient care). There was a high correlation between these two factors. Almost universally the students with the worst GPAs are some of the worst clinicians, IMHO.

No you don't have to have a 4.0 to be a decent clinician, but I'd rather my doctor took their school seriously and had some critical thinking skills.

 

[4Eyes]

I think he was getting at those who are SO academically oriented that their communication skills are somewhat lacking. Another major factor in OD success, at least in the business sense, is chairside manner. Just an example. So not discounting grades really...of course there's a lower limit to that grades/clinical ability relationship. (Is this the idea? Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth....)

I don't know. I busted my rear for my classes, but I was also okay with the fact that my 3.9+ days were very much over.

 

[alferec]

One of the optometrists I'm working with right now for my internship told me that the A students become good researchers, the B students become good clinicians, and the C students get rich. Anybody heard of that before? I don't know what to make of that saying...

 

[Ben Chudner]

The latest issue of Optometric Education researched the link between GPAs and critical thinking skills (basically the largest determinate of providing good patient care). There was a high correlation between these two factors. Almost universally the students with the worst GPAs are some of the worst clinicians, IMHO.

No you don't have to have a 4.0 to be a decent clinician, but I'd rather my doctor took their school seriously and had some critical thinking skills.

Critical thinking skills is not the largest determinate of providing good patient care. It may be the largest determinate of providing competent patient care, but good patient care is something entirely different. My point was that the bedside manner of some of my classmates with the highest GPA's was not nearly as good as that of the students with lower GPA's. While I am sure the 4.0 students have become fine doctors, I would be willing to bet that the most successful doctors from my graduating class had lower GPA's.

 

[KHE]

Critical thinking skills is not the largest determinate of providing good patient care. It may be the largest determinate of providing competent patient care, but good patient care is something entirely different. My point was that the bedside manner of some of my classmates with the highest GPA's was not nearly as good as that of the students with lower GPA's. While I am sure the 4.0 students have become fine doctors, I would be willing to bet that the most successful doctors from my graduating class had lower GPA's.

Again...it boils down to who is going to make money for my office and me?

A candidate who has a high GPA and can rattle of the most obscure details of the most obscure conditions, but is cold and/or creepy or has no personality or presence is simply not going to make it because patients won't come back and (more importantly) won't refer family or friends. All the critical thinking skills in the world are not going to overcome that.

A candidate who looks into the eye and is clueless about what they see but can tell the patient "You know Mrs. Jones. I've never seen that before and I'm not sure what it is so I'm going to refer you out to a wonderful specialist and we'll get to the bottom of this" in a nice and comforting way is going to earn the trust (and referrals) of that patient much more easily even if they didn't immediately rattle off the answer to the patients condition.

Like I said before, the few times I have had to hire ODs, their GPA wasn't even on the radar screen of things to ask about.

The ONLY way to build a practice, IMHO is through patient referals. Nothing else works. Advertising, glad handing other docs, speaking engagements etc. etc. are all mildly helpful and might get you a short term bounce here and there but the only thing that works long term is patient referals. And if they don't like you, you can be the most brilliant guy in the world but you aren't going to make it.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Again...it boils down to who is going to make money for my office and me?

A candidate who has a high GPA and can rattle of the most obscure details of the most obscure conditions, but is cold and/or creepy or has no personality or presence is simply not going to make it because patients won't come back and (more importantly) won't refer family or friends. All the critical thinking skills in the world are not going to overcome that.

A candidate who looks into the eye and is clueless about what they see but can tell the patient "You know Mrs. Jones. I've never seen that before and I'm not sure what it is so I'm going to refer you out to a wonderful specialist and we'll get to the bottom of this" in a nice and comforting way is going to earn the trust (and referrals) of that patient much more easily even if they didn't immediately rattle off the answer to the patients condition.

Like I said before, the few times I have had to hire ODs, their GPA wasn't even on the radar screen of things to ask about.

The ONLY way to build a practice, IMHO is through patient referals. Nothing else works. Advertising, glad handing other docs, speaking engagements etc. etc. are all mildly helpful and might get you a short term bounce here and there but the only thing that works long term is patient referals. And if they don't like you, you can be the most brilliant guy in the world but you aren't going to make it.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.