GPA on AMCAS application

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by CareRx, Sep 30, 2002.

  1. CareRx

    CareRx Member

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    I am a sophomore now and thinking about re-taking g-chem in a state or a city college (to save a few dollars) and NOT transferring the grade to my university (they do not accept credits from other colleges). I understand that it will not affect my GPA in the university I will be graduating from. Just wondering if it can bring up my GPA on AMCAS application (in case of a better grade, otherwise I will not submit it). Does it make sense? Can it work? Thanks in advance.
     
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  3. tBw

    tBw totally deluded

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    1. You must submit all grades at all schools to AMCAS.

    2. It will help (assuming it's a better grade) in that *both* grades will be included into calculating your AMCAS GPA. However, it will not replace the earlier grade.
     
  4. GreenBeret

    GreenBeret Junior Member

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    I have a question..and my situation is as follows. I went to U of Iowa when I was 18. Flunked out, never went to class, garnered a TRUCKLOAD of "F's". 10 years later, I enter U of GA as a freshman (not claiming any credits from before, or even mentioning U of I), have raced thru, have a 4.0 GPA, and I have 60 credit hours thus far. Now I am seeing on AMCAS that I am required to submit all my course work????? 30 credit hours of "F's" will destroy me. It's just a part of my life I'd rather forget..i was a kid...I wasn't ready. Then I joined the military, got out, went to school as a grown up *smile* and look what I've accomplished.

    My question is: if i don't give them reason to go looking, why is AMCAS (with over 35,000 applicants) going to go scouring the nation and Canada looking for schools I've attended? I'm just inclined to not say anything about it -- there's no record on anything anywhere except at U of I, and I owe them money, so they wouldn't release my transcript anyway...LOL...If my application looks hunky-dory, why would they think otherwise?

    I know I sound awful. Go ahead...crucify me for thinking unethically. What I think is unethical is that AMCAS will essentially demolish my chances for med school because of something that I did 11 years ago. IS there a timelimit or anything?

    I'm severely depressed after I saw that on AMCAS. It's a terrible choice: either reveal it and be screwed, or not reveal it, and feel guilty, and (off off chance) they might find out about it and I'll still be screwed..

    Advice is kindly appreciated. And yes, I have changed the names of schools to protect the innocent (that'd be me) :)

    HELP! Anyone who has interacted with AMCAS..I'd appreciate a response. :(
     
  5. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg 1K Member

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    be careful....but I think you should know how to be covert, greenberet... ;)
     
  6. tBw

    tBw totally deluded

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    I think it's better to be honest about it, mainly because if you are, I really don't think it will be a big deal - there is TEN YEARS between the person you were then and the person you are now. I think schools would if anything look positively on someone who turned things around like that and with ten years in between there is a clear distance between you and those Fs. If you are dishonest though that says something about who you are *today* and that could be a much bigger obstacle if at any time it did come out.
     
  7. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    I have to agree with the above poster, be honest. You never know whom is on the adcom of X or Y med school ,who knows they may know you personally from somewhere. And why lie? with your experience (SF medic?), upward trend in grades, and maturity the adcoms will see that you have indeed changed for the better. You may want to go to www.oldpremeds.net, lots of non-trads that are in med school, and residency with subpar gpa. Good luck!
     
  8. doctamon

    doctamon Member

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    Green Beret,

    I find myself in a situation similar to yours. Lotsa bad grades in my previous life, but superlative grades etc. after "growing up". I was told by numerous people not to even consider withholding grades (not that I would or could since I finally returned to the same school and got my degree so all my grades are on thesame transcript). I recently heard of a student being tossed out of a local school as an MS2 after they discovered he had left grades off his app.
    I was told that admissions committees would look favorably on such improvement but I doubt if they will even glance at my app with such a poor overall GPA. There should be a special category for people like us, but I haven't found one yet.:confused:
     
  9. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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    Green Beret, As much as I'd like to hope you didn't have to, I think you should put the bad grades on AMCAS. It would be worse to be caught committing admissions misconduct (as in the thread about the law school girl who did so)... I would hope the adcoms can look past the youthful indiscretion and see how you've changed. It might even make a good essay.

    Similarly, CareRx, I think you'd have to put it on AMCAS, rather than putting it on there based on how you do.

    -RA
     
  10. An Yong

    An Yong Senior Member

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    Just curious,

    Don't many schools do automatic initial screening through some magic formula of mcat and GPA? In which case, 30 credit hours of F's would be kind of detrimental. But I have to agree with the post above and say that reporting it would be the better thing. After all, you claimed you matured in those ten years, is dishonestly witholding grades a mature way of acting? Not only that, but you'll have to go through medical school worrying if someone ever finds out, and that can put a severe burden on your academic performance.

    Good Luck!
     
  11. Andrew_Doan

    Andrew_Doan Doc, Author, Entrepreneur
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    I'm not sure I want physicians who lie and are dishonest. If you lie to get into medicine, then sooner or later, it will catch up to you. The demands of medical school and residency training are far greater than the classes taken during undergrad.
     
  12. Jonkst

    Jonkst Senior Member

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    My opinion, choose one school that you're going to apply to, and are not terribly interested in, and call and ask. All of these adcoms are people too, so just call and say "I'm an older applicant and I have a question." If they say you're screwed, don't apply there, and don't mention it, if they say its cool, we like to see someone who's turned their life around, then, well, that's you're answer.

    I'm sorry, I'm not big into guessing what these people are thinking, so why not call and know for sure.
     
  13. SMW

    SMW Grand Member

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    If you call you will not get to talk to the "adcom" but just someone who's answering the phone. I doubt that you will get any answer other than what the rules require. And the rules require that you report all schools attended and grades received on AMCAS. You will probably want to apply to lots of lower tier and unranked schools, but I think that as other posters have indicated, your academic comeback and your being honest will count for a lot. Best of luck to you! :)
     
  14. MaggieD

    MaggieD Member

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    I literally have an identical situation to yours. I got 32 credit hours of C's, D's & F's from a community college and got dismissed. Stupid teenager, etc. Then I joined the Army (Infantry) and 4 years later entered school again. I'm rocking my classes now, I have a 3.8 post screw-off GPA, but those F's are murderous on my transcript. According to AMCAS I have like a 2.6 GPA. I wish I knew what to tell you, but I really don't know how the Adcoms will react to people like us. I mean, I'm just hoping my app gets read and gets past the screening. What I can't do is lie about it. Some of the credits (C's) transferred, and besides, I'm sure they would toss me for lying.
    Best of luck...don't hesitate to contact me.
     
  15. abw

    abw Senior Member

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    Here's a little hope about F's on transcripts:

    My junior year I did a semester abroad in the summer, but had to leave early because of a family emergency. The program wouldn't issue W's, so instead I got three F's on my transcript. I was really nervous about applying to med school , but I explained the bad grades in my AMCAS statement. I received secondaries from all but one of the schools that I applied to that didn't send secondaries to everyone. Also, I've received 3 interviews (However, God only knows if I have a chance for acceptance)

    One thing an M1 told me at my last interview was that the schools are picking colleagues, not a basketball team; meaning that they want the best future doctors not necessarily the best statistics. I say you should include your original grades, and devote a paragraph in your essay to show how much you have improved yourself. If you did, it would show your growth, maturity, persistence and honesty.

    Just a thought!
     
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  17. GreenBeret

    GreenBeret Junior Member

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    I appreciate SINCERELY all of the above responses. IF I KNEW they would read my personal statement, I wouldn't sweat it. Like the above poster said though, I am SUCH A KICK*SS student now. Chem major, ex-military, great school, 4.0...who knows how I'll do on the MCAT, though...LOL. I want to go to a top 25 school. maybe top 10. And if you just looked at me now, rather than ELEVEN years ago, I'd make it. The bad part is that none of the analogies posted really relate, save for the last one. I DIDN'T transfer grades, and no one knows me down here...literally, it was 11 years ago, a forgettable experience, and I'm 1500 miles away. I'm just speaking logistically, not ethically (like the above poster condemned me for *smile*)...why COULDN'T i just start from age 27? It's not like there's a national data base of enrollment in colleges/universities for U.S., Canada, etc..???

    What a quandry..i REALLY wish I hadn't read that on AMCAS. :)
     
  18. abw

    abw Senior Member

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    Green Beret,

    I completely understand your situation, and it is a really tough choice (I wasn't condemning you at all). Another thing that might help is to discuss your old grades with your premed committee (after you make your decision). From what I understand, LOR's mean everything. If you have letters that emphasize your great current stats, everything should be ok. Also, I remembering my pre-med advisor saying that she could take special steps to let the schools know my case beforehand so they did not to dismiss me by calculating my stats in a formula. I didn't apply to any top 25 schools, so I can't vouch for how they work. But then again, I only had single digit mcat scores, so I knew I didn't stand much chance. Good luck with your decision, like I said, it is a really tough choice.
     
  19. MaggieD

    MaggieD Member

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    That is about the most ignorant post I have ever seen on SDN. I don't think it is possible for you to come across a more of a conceited jerk.
     
  20. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    Greenberet how do you know that someone on the adcoms may not know you? I know two SF guys that are now in med school and could be sitting on some adcom somewhere by the time you apply. Who is to say that maybe they do know you from whatever group you were assigned to, and somehow know of your not so hot grades? You really do not know whom is on the adcom of shools that you apply to (I know this is not likely but still). Aside from the grades if you are previous military you have to submit AARTS (folks be careful about this and do not forget) so every military school ever attended regardless if the credit transferred to your undergrad school or not has to be reported on AMCAS, believe me this is even more of a nightmare. I know this was off topic but just more hoops to jump through. Ethically you should report your grades and if you are so kick *$$ as you state, then you have nothing to worry about. There are med students with really subpar gpa (Oldmandave from OPM) that did get into med school with very low gpa even after they went for another degree. Anyways good luck.
     
  21. Andrew_Doan

    Andrew_Doan Doc, Author, Entrepreneur
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    Green Beret,

    Not all programs use a set formula to screen people out. Perhaps some programs will weed you out because of GPA alone, but others may give you a chance. What is your average GPA now in the sciences and non-sciences? If you flunked out of U of Iowa, then you shouldn't have that many courses. Most of your GPA average should be pulled by your courses at your most recent academic program. In addition, it's a combination of BOTH MCAT scores and GPA that will be first looked at in screening applicants. What are your MCAT scores? If you want to prove to the admissions committee that you're a new student, then you need to score high on the MCAT and demonstrate your new academic strengths.
     
  22. MaggieD

    MaggieD Member

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    efex101, when you submitted your AARTS transcripts, how did they affect your GPA, if at all? Are they treated as pass/fail?
    Thanks for the heads up about those, I had forgotten all about them.
     
  23. silver_eyes

    silver_eyes Senior Member

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    i am kind of in the same boat,
    i ama soph, last year i had okay grades.not really, got an f in math and g chem, but got a 's and b's in the humanites....gpa..barley a 2.0.

    i took g chem over the summer...got a c. will the f show up in amcas? is it bad?
     
  24. GreenBeret

    GreenBeret Junior Member

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    Maybe I should clarify....the reason i got the "F's" is because I just STOPPED GOING after the first few weeks...LOL. Seriously, I think it's about 20 credit hours of F's...a few from the first semester (again just stopped going to class....didn't understand about dropping/adding, etc) and the rest ALL of second. :)

    So if, imperator, you are thinking that I once had sincerely failed those subjects (like piano, voice, and music theory...I used to be a music major...LOL) that's incorrect, but I was unclear. Yes, I technically failed, but it was a lack of responsibility/maturity at the time on my part to not drop the classes. It certainly had no bearing on whether or not I could do the work.

    I was just rather non-plussed over the subject line "I don't believe people can change that much." ELEVEN YEARS? BEING IN COMBAT??? That can change people JUST a little. :) I also disagree where my not wanting to go to piano class when I was 18 and garnering an "F" for it, has any real impact on the well-being of my future patients. That's a BIT of a stretch. But I still appreciate that you responded, imperator. And everyone else.
     
  25. drumming207

    drumming207 Sucka Foo

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    imperator, i understand your point, but just realize it is HIGH SCHOOL after all. most people in high school don't have a clue what is going on or who they are. i feel that although i did very well in high school, this does not reflect the physician i will become. people drastically change throughout life (and PAST high school, so one hopes)-- just realize that your young years as a high schooler do not equate to who you are NOW at this point in your life (or the physician you are striving to become). we all grow up, have everchanging ideals, and realize things that are truly important to us as the journey continues. GreenBeret, i feel for you--- i would contact amcas and see what they say. just remember, it is best to be honest and what's done is done. you can mold the future, so forget (or try to) about the past. i know that is easier said then done...

    :)
     
  26. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    MaggieD the AARTS classes will not affect your gpa at all for if any were transferred to your u-grad they were probably transferred as P/F classes, the ones that did not transfer will also be considered P/F. I have not applied yet but I read the huge PDF file or whatever that explains all the minutae of filling out AMCAS and it was a whole section for ex-military folks. Also my friend who did apply was prior service and had to do the whole shabang. Remember also that AARTS or whatever office it is has to also send AMCAS an AARTS transcript, so get on the ball early. Make sure you have an AARTS check the rank, name, because mine has me as SPC and I got out as Sgt. AMCAS has to have that transcript as well to make sure that what you put down is the correct info, now why AMCAS needs this AARTS stuff who knows. I guess some colleges will give you transfer credit from Army courses (but at my school the only course that actually gave me credit for my major was PE!) and any course seen as transfer by AMCAS requires a transcript from that individual school or in this case the Army. It is a pain in the rear to say the least. Hope this helps and does not confuse you more. Also, if you put down that you are prior service they know that you should have AARTS, so do not try to get over on this one (he he), it could hold up your application forever....
     
  27. GreenBeret

    GreenBeret Junior Member

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    Hey efex:

    I graduated AIT with a 98.9 from the Academy at Ft. Sam Houston. That's the only military education I got...do I need to turn that in too? My college didn't give me any credit for it...mainly because i didn't ask..i'd rather take the courses for easy A's and keep the GPA up. :)

    How do i go about getting that? I just wanted to make sure what you are talking about (AARTS) and what I am talking about are the same thing.
     
  28. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    AARTS has like all your schools for example basic, ait, pldc, if you are SF then q course, SEARS, etc. Regardless if those credit transferred or not most schools will at least give you credit for PE, then AMCAS wants it. You can access your AARTS online here is the link what also may be helpful is if you go to www.aamc.org and under AMCAS print out or read that huge file on how to fill out AMCAS. There is a whole section on there that will describe the whole AARTS process. Yeah it sucks because my only schools were like basic, pldc, ait, and a couple of other bs.
     
  29. blike

    blike Senior Member

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    Hogwash. The guys mistakes are 11 years behind him. That would be like analyzing my mistakes as an 8 year old, and then holding them against me now, saying I could make the mistakes again. He has obviously demonstrated he has matured academically.

    Give me a break. If he isn't accepted, then there won't be any future patients. And him not getting accepted ISN'T in the best nature of "future patients". You don't know how good of a doc anyone will be.

    --

    To comment on the original post, I would be honest. It seems as if you've distanced yourself from your past and the adcoms will likely recognize that. You've done your best, and it will pay off! Good luck!
     
  30. GreenBeret

    GreenBeret Junior Member

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    Blike:

    Thanks for the positive post. I appreciate that. I talked to one of my mentors who used to be on the admissions committee at a med school. He says there they would take note of the 11 year gap, and calculate a new GPA based off what I have NOW. They'd see that I woke up, and fulfilled my potential. Basically, he told me to not worry about AMCAS, for now. They (the ad coms)do scrutnize everything carefully, but my MCAT score will tell the tale. :) Talk about pressure...

    BRING IT ON. :)
     
  31. imperator

    imperator Member

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    So he probably has matured, but he still is more likely to make mistakes again than someone who has always gotten A's. This is a statistical fact - there is no contention.

    And no, comparing an eight year old to a nineteen year old is not equivalent to comparing a nineteen year old to a thirty year old. An eight year old's brain brain has not fully developed whereas the brain of a nineteen year old has finished developing. Try reading some physiology, numbnuts.

    This will undoubtedly go down as one of the most profound quotes of our generation.

    I never said that now, not having applied to medical school, a rejection would be in the best interest of his potential patients. I said that if he is rejected, then that rejection would be would be in the best interest of his potential patients. While you're taking the physiology course, maybe you could also try some rhetoric or logic courses to learn how to reason.

    Good point. So why does HMS even look at grades - or whole applications for that matter? They should just put the name of everyone who wants to pay the "application fee" in a huge bin and pull them out during a televised event just like Powerball. Hey, I bet FOX would host it. I also bet Harvard would be able to make more money than not screening for secondaries! Isn't that the point of medical school - to make money, right? Since no one knows how to make anyone into a good doctor.
     
  32. silver_eyes

    silver_eyes Senior Member

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    what about me?
     
  33. SMW

    SMW Grand Member

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    Yes, the F will have to be listed on AMCAS. All classes and grades have to be listed, regardless of whether the class was retaken. 2 F's are not going to look good at all. I would think you would need a very strong upward trend in grades (like mostly A's) to overcome your weak start. I hope you're buckling down. Good luck! :)
     
  34. blike

    blike Senior Member

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    imperator,

    Why make things personal? You argue quite like my younger brother. Attacking only my argument is not enough, you must put me down as well. Believe me, it makes your points seem stronger. ;)

    Lets start by reviewing your statement.

    If it means you aren't accepted then consider it in the best nature of your future patients. They are more important than you getting an MD at the end of your name.

    We'll start with the first sentence: you said "If it means you aren't accepted then consider it in the best nature of your future patients". Note the use of "future patients" in the same sentence as him being "rejected". Now, applying a bit of logic, there are no future patients if he is rejected.

    To which you replied:

    I said that if he is rejected, then that rejection would be would be in the best interest of his potential patients. .

    No, you said future patients; hence my reaction. Please explain to me how a rejection is in the best interest of someone's potential patients; perhaps I missed it buried in the Ad Hominem attacks.

    First, my point was you personally are not in a position to judge whether or not it is in the best interest of his "future" patients. Second, adcoms are not in a position to judge how good a doctor will be based on his undergraduate transcripts alone. Great Grades doesn't mean Great Physician.
     
  35. MaggieD

    MaggieD Member

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    Blike, don't get to upset. imperator is just a troll, ignore him. How else could you explain his rationale?
     
  36. jwin

    jwin Senior Member

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    wow imp, i am shocked at your recent posts considering your high school background:

    one of imp's first posts
    "Hello, and thank you for reading my post! I will be a freshman this fall at the University of Wisconsin at Madison (go, uhmmm, badgers?). I did not work at all in high school (2.56 gpa) but am bright (1600 sat), and have decided this summer that I want to be a doctor. I am a Maryland resident, and my goal is to attend Johns Hopkins Medical School. I plan to be a classics major, to take the MCAT the April before my senior year, and to apply to JHU under the Early Decision Program at the earliest date possible. I will have a very high gpa and also hope to get a very high MCAT score. However, I am unsure what medically-related extracurricular activities to pursue in college. I will not apply to enter the MD/PhD program at JHU, just the MD program. Still, considering that JHU is a research-intensive school, will I be looked down upon if I do not contribute to some of the research projects at Wisconsin? Also, in terms of clinical experience, I am unsure what to do. I have heard of being an EMT, though I think I would have to wait till next summer to go through the training program. What could I do during the year? Thanks in advance."

    2.56 in high school is about like failing out of college, so i think you two are about in the same boat. perhaps you also have should consider applying your own kind words of advice to your own case
    imp said:
    "There was something in your psyche that caused you to do so badly before, some disconnect between action and reaction, that to some degree must still exist. Even if you are not aware of it now, there is still more of a possibility of you failing classes than someone who has gotten straight A's their whole life. This is an issue that needs to be addressed when you apply to medical schools. If it means you aren't accepted then consider it in the best nature of your future patients. They are more important than you getting an MD at the end of your name.
    (edited because the crappy mac I posted from can't do apostrophes)"

    unbelievable.
     
  37. GreenBeret

    GreenBeret Junior Member

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    Well I've decided to tell them about what happened 11 years ago in a land far far away, but i STILL say they'd never know it if I didn't tell them. How's AMCAS going to know, for heaven's sake...Like I said to someone else..it's not like there's a national database of enrollment in every college university in the US, Canada and beyond.

    So that's what I think. :) I'll take the high road, but could someone still explain to me a feasible way AMCAs itself would ever know about diddly if I didn't tell them. ;)

    I'm done ranting. :)

    And thanks imperator, for showing how childish you can be. I was thinking hard about your original post, but now I see your full of BS. :) Thanks to the above poster for posting his original messages. ;)
     
  38. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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    Good call Jwin. Maybe you shouldn't be a doctor either, imp...

    -RA
     
  39. imperator

    imperator Member

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    I'll respond in order.

    blike: I made things personal because I perceived your initial post as personal since you used the rough phrases "hogwash" and "give me a break", and you said that "If he isn't accepted, then there won't be any future patients." That statement is so obvious that I was offended that you felt it was necessary to write. However, if you were honestly confused by my use of "future" instead of "potential" and said what you said to attempt to establish clarity, then I sincerely apologize for my rudeness.

    You wrote:
    explain to me how a rejection is in the best interest of someone's potential patients;

    I believe a rejection is in the best interest of someone's potential patients because it means that are not fit for medicine, and if they had patients they would mistreat them. I will apply to enough medical schools to overcome the "crapshoot" effect, and if I am not accepted by any of them then I will assume that I am not fit for medicine and will pursue a different career path instead. Some people want to apply year after year to see if they get in - I have a different philosophy, however.

    You wrote:
    First, my point was you personally are not in a position to judge whether or not it is in the best interest of his "future" patients.

    For the gazillionth time, I never said I was personally in a position to judge whether or not it is in the best interests of his potential patients for him to be rejected. If he is rejected by the <i>admissions committe</i>, not <i>me</i> it <i>will</i> have been in the best interests of his potential patients. Do you finally understand, or do I need to explain it again? It should be very clear now.

    You wrote:
    Second, adcoms are not in a position to judge how good a doctor will be based on his undergraduate transcripts alone. Great Grades doesn't mean Great Physician.

    No admissions committee in this country will attempt to judge how good a doctor someone will be based on his undergraduate transcripts alone, and I don't think they should, but I, unlike Greenberet, think they are justified in seeing <i>complete</i> undergraduate transcripts because bad grades can be a red flag.

    MaggieD: Again you offer nothing but accusations. If you're going to insult me at least write something witty. Come on now.

    jwin: Do you even know how to read? Apparently you do not, because I quite clearly said that I said that I'm worried about the effect my high school performance will have on my possible performance as a doctor. I also said I was worried about the effect Greenberet's earlier college performance will have on his being a doctor because I believe poor grades, no matter when they are received, are important. Medical schools do not consider high school grades important. If they did, they would ask for them and I would happily send them when I apply. They do ask for all college grades, and that why Greenberet should send his. However, I consider my high school grades important in lieu of medical school admissions committees and that's why I worry about my possibly poor performance as a doctor. However, Greenberet does not consider all his grades important in lieu of medical school admissions committees and that is why I worry for his potential patients.

    Also, I appreciate the concern and applaud your research skills, but I would like to inform you that prior to matriculating at college fulltime I aced every class I took (much more than a semester's worth). I did not like my high school, disregarded the effect poor performance in my high school classes would have on my future, and chose not to work in them, thus guaranteeing me bad grades.

    Now in college fulltime, in addition to having aced the college classes I took previously, I am acing every class I'm taking - more than the normal credit load, mind you. I also just received the highest grade on the midterm in my calculus class of several <i>hundred</i>. So my GPA is well and good, currently standing at a 4.0, which is not almost failing out, but the highest you can get at my school (no A+'s).

    So no, Greenberet and I are not in the same boat because I only have an excellent college record and his is spotty. We are in the same boat in that we have both have received a rash of bad grades in the past. If there are any inconsistencies you perceive in my posts I would be happy to clarify them for you, but please read everything I write before responding.

    Greenberet: I truly find it despicable that you want to become a doctor and are trying to lie about yourself before you even go to <i>medical school</i>. Medicine is not like the military, my friend. The end is not more important than the means. Your credibility is always crucial and you want to create as human a relationship as you can with your patient. Lying about yourself is not a way to do that. Try watching Patch Adams sometime, it'll do ya good.

    Random Access: I never said he shouldn't be a doctor since he had low grades, I said he should send his low grades and if he is rejected on the basis of them he should assume it is in the best interest of the patients he would have been responsible for. I wrote it very clearly this time so that you can understand. I also would like to note that if I had to send high school grades and was rejected on the basis of them I would assume it was in the best interest of the patients I would have been responsible for, also.

    I understand that most of you are science majors, but the lack of reading comprehension skills on this board is truly mesmerizing. Before you all attack me, at least try to understand what I'm saying, please. drumming17 is the only one who read everything I wrote before responding. More of you should try doing just that.
     
  40. Curci

    Curci The Master Chief

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    Ok, man. That post was WAY too long. Does anyone care enough to read all of that? :laugh:

    Seriously, I disagree with much of what you said, Imp, just like most of the people following this thread. However, there was one thing you wrote that REALLY stuck out:

    If you get an interview and are ever asked "What will you do if you don't get in?" I would strongly advise you to NOT say this. The road to being a good physician is LONG and filled with many set-backs, many beyond your control. Therefore, a good doctor must be DEDICATED. A philosophy like this shows a lack of commitment on your part. This is very bad.

    This is aside from the arrogance that is evident in some of your posts. Statements like, I will definitely do very well on the MCAT, and get a 4.0 and definitely get into Hopkins display arrogance and a severe lack of maturity because they make it seem like you think you DESERVE to get good scores/acceptances just because you WANT them badly enough. This is not the way the world works. In fact, this kind of thinking is naive. That's ANOTHER "kiss of death."

    There is a difference between arrogance and self confidence, and it would be to your advantage to figure this out before you apply to med school. Of course, I'm a "behavioralist" and not a hard-core "geneticist," so maybe I'm just full of BS. :laugh:
     
  41. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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    Wow, so that wasn't masturbatory or anything. So who's conceited again?

    Blah blah blah...It was more of a minimal attempt at humor having no bearing on my reading comprehension.

    -RA
     
  42. doctamon

    doctamon Member

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    Okay, so anybody know of specific schools which don't use some sort of GPA-MCAT formula to decide who gets an interview (for those of us with "leftover" GPA's)?
     
  43. jenni4476

    jenni4476 Senior Member

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    Okay, so hello-I'm a newbie. I've actually been lurking around for a while but imperator finally pushed me to posting something. I just cannot stand to see faulty, judgmental thinking being perpetuated out there in the big, bad world.

    So the year's worth of bad grades on my transcript from five years ago is a "red flag"? Notwithstanding the fact that at the time I was in an abusive marraige, faced several injuries over the year, and finally had to go to a shelter and stop attending college even though it was too late to officially drop out?

    This was what made me want to be a doctor in the first place. Personally, I think I'm far stronger and more motivated than I would have been had I not gone through that. If you spend your life getting A's and being near-perfect, how will you know what life looks like from anywhere but the top? How will you know if you have any inner reserves of strength to draw on when times get tough?

    Imperator, I suggest you try, just for a minute, to put aside your insecurities and perfectionistic tendencies and realize that the past in and of itself DOES NOT MATTER no matter how bad or good it was as long as it's had some impact on where you are today. Take yourself as an example, your poor performance in high school distressed you and caused you to perform better in college. Therefore, you've obviously overcome whatever was causing difficulties for you and any time you waste now worrying about the past will take effort away from preparing for the future. Got that? However, if someone didn't learn and didn't try any harder b/c of it, then obviously the past has had no impact on the present and it needs to be given full weight in consideration. Ya see where I'm going with this?

    I personally will be using these bad grades as a full opportunity to illustrate the strength and determination I have gained from overcoming the circumstances behind them. I am not ashamed of them, nor do I flaunt the reason for them. It simply is part of who I am and why I want to be a doctor.

    Sorry my introduction to the boards had to come this way but....
     
  44. NatureGirl

    NatureGirl Junior Member

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    Imperator, I can hardly believe that last remark you made. It was childish and uninformed. Do you realize that being a physician is about "humanity",as well as science? You should never judge a person such as jenni4476 on something you do not understand. You obviously haven't a clue about the dynamics of an abusive relationship---it is absolutely incredible and to be commended that she had the courage to leave the relationship and make something of herself. Maybe you ought to lay off on some of the hardcore "genetics" and learn a little something about the real world and all of the amazing people that make it up.
     
  45. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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    "I believe you'd get your a$$ kicked saying something like that man."
     
  46. jenni4476

    jenni4476 Senior Member

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    Nature Girl-thanks for your support-the world needs more people like you.

    Imperator-maybe you should look up the definitions of "assertive" and "aggressive". I believe you are getting them mixed up.

    I chose then, and still choose now, to behave assertively. I stood up and refused to take the abuse anymore and got out. I did what was right for myself without hurting anyone else in the process.

    Had I chosen to behave aggressively and fought back (pointless since he was a foot taller and eighty pounds heavier) I would simply have been adding support to his notion that taking things out physically on another person is an acceptable way of coping with stress. I would also have been arrested myself for abuse and that would REALLY have impacted my future.

    Now, which of the above two types of individuals would you like to have as your doctor? I seriously question the judgment of anyone who agrees with the aggressive approach, and I would definitely not want them as my doctor.

    As far as my non-traditional status goes, what does that really matter? It simply means that I took the long road around, saw a good deal of the world and humanity in the process, and am now that much more clear as to what I want since I've already eliminated plenty of alternatives.

    Lest you think I'm some stuffy old lady and dismiss me out of hand, let me tell you I'm 26. I still get down and party with my friends frequently, I dance and race my car as hobbies, in short, I have a life probably pretty similar to yours. And I DON'T grade grub or brown nose, I ask my questions via email and I've never argued a grade. I haven't had to-I make sure I'm prepared and I've never had a low enough score on anything to make me worry.

    Instead of automatically reacting negatively to non-trads, why don't you realize that you may actually be able to learn something from us? After all, we once were "naive" too-I can prove it by the fact I got married at 18. I'm not ashamed to admit that I used to think I knew it all and fell flat on my face. At least now I realize how much I don't know and I take every opportunity to learn, from whoever or whatever. Sounds like you haven't learned this yet.
     
  47. DAL

    DAL no thank you

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    Ah man, after spending too much time reading this thread I had to chime in after RA quoted "Office Space". That was awesome RA, keep up the good work:)

    Congrats on your improvement GreenBeret! I'm sure that schools will look past your previous scores and see you for who you are now. Best of luck on the MCAT. Beyond the scores, it sounds like you have life experiences that will allow you to relate well to your patients and gain their trust. If accepted, I'm sure that will serve you well in the field of medicine.
     
  48. woolie

    woolie Intermountain West

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    Hey, what is going on here? This is like a bad slumber party gone wrong. Can we go back and start again?

    The original post-er made me think of a GenChem class I took about 10 years ago but had to drop because of work, etc. You see, even 10 years ago I was interested in medicine ... anyway, I never thought to include this on my amcas transcript. It's a "W", and I thought I would just ignore it since I have never been back to the school and it's just one class. Maybe I should put it down? I never even thought about this but you guys have made me paranoid ....
     

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