GPA vs MCAT

[277768]

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How do numbers work in this process?

What's more important GPA or MCAT? Obviously both is ideal.

But what is usually better to have?

a) 37/3.2 or 34/3.8

b) 34/3.0 or 28/3.9


Any feedback would be helpful. I just mean on average schools.

 

[Faziz]

GPA is a more consistent indicator of how well you handle academics. Therefore, a 3.9 GPA indicates that you are a very good student and you work hard consistently, whereas a 39 MCAT score indicates that you're a pretty good test taker. I'd say in both scenarios you presented, the higher GPA will be more likely to work in your favor (even if your MCAT score is a 28).

Hope that helps!

 

[armybound]

I think the 34/3.8 and 28/3.9 win those matchups

 

[flip26]

IMO:

A high GPA - with both overall and BCPM high - combined with any balanced MCAT 30+ (no section scores below 10), is a winning combination for the vast majority of med schools. I define "high" as 3.8+, and of course it would be even better 3.9+ (I would rather have that extra 0.10 than an extra MCAT point anytime).

 

[Contrarian]

I think the MCAT probably holds more weight when trying to compare academic potential of students from different undergrad institutions

 

[LizzyM]

a) 37+ 3.2(10)= 69 < 34+3.8(10)= 72

b) 34+ 3.0(10)= 64 < 28+ 3.9(10)= 67

Low MCAT and high gpa is often indicative of someone who works hard but doesn't test well OR a school that has grade inflation or little competition.

The high MCAT/low gpa combinations would need a closer look. If this was a non-trad or someone who had a terrible year due to a tragedy, it might be worth a deeper look into the transcript.

 

[SirGecko]

a) 37+ 3.2(10)= 69 < 34+3.8(10)= 72

b) 34+ 3.0(10)= 64 < 28+ 3.9(10)= 67

Low MCAT and high gpa is often indicative of someone who works hard but doesn't test well OR a school that has grade inflation or little competition.

The high MCAT/low gpa combinations would need a closer look. If this was a non-trad or someone who had a terrible year due to a tragedy, it might be worth a deeper look into the transcript.

+1 Lizzy M knows what she is talking about. You have to take the greater context of the scores into account. Plus those combined scores aren't even so it's obvious which of the two for those situations is better.

 

[JonBonesJones]

But what is usually better to have?

a) 37/3.2 or 34/3.8

b) 34/3.0 or 28/3.9

I think these are pretty poor examples.

Assuming average acceptance numbers are ~30/~3.6, in a) the first student has a well below average GPA, well above average MCAT, while the second student has strong numbers for both. In b) the first student has a very very low GPA, but a strong MCAT, while the second student has an excellent GPA and an MCAT just slightly below average.

An example of 33/3.45 to 28/3.8 seems more reasonable.

Personally, if given the choice between an aveMCAT/superGPA or superMCAT/aveGPA combo, I would absolutely pick the later.

 

[JJMrK]

a) 37+ 3.2(10)= 69 < 34+3.8(10)= 72

b) 34+ 3.0(10)= 64 < 28+ 3.9(10)= 67

Low MCAT and high gpa is often indicative of someone who works hard but doesn't test well OR a school that has grade inflation or little competition.

The high MCAT/low gpa combinations would need a closer look. If this was a non-trad or someone who had a terrible year due to a tragedy, it might be worth a deeper look into the transcript.

What do you consider low in this hypothetical low MCAT/high GPA situation?

 

[BerlinDude]

Adcom members have different opinions on the matter. I would always take a high MCAT over a high GPA.

The MCAT is the one thing in everybody's application that can easily be compared. A high MCAT score always beats a low MCAT score. However a high GPA does not always beat a low GPA. What was the courseload? What school? Was there a lot of grade inflation? What was the major? Were you working while taking classes? These are all mitigating factors. So I always think the MCAT is more important.

Additionally, it tests your knowledge at the time you are applying to med school, so for nontrads that is more relevant than GPA.

 

[flip26]

Adcom members have different opinions on the matter. I would always take a high MCAT over a high GPA.

The MCAT is the one thing in everybody's application that can easily be compared. A high MCAT score always beats a low MCAT score. However a high GPA does not always beat a low GPA. What was the courseload? What school? Was there a lot of grade inflation? What was the major? Were you working while taking classes? These are all mitigating factors. So I always think the MCAT is more important.

Additionally, it tests your knowledge at the time you are applying to med school, so for nontrads that is more relevant than GPA.

You need to define your terms here. Once someone achieves a 36 or 37 on the MCAT, there are diminishing returns for a higher score. Similarly it seems that once an applicant achieves around 3.85, there are diminishing returns for a higher GPA.

IMO: I would not want to play this game with anything less than a 10 in each subscore, or anything less than 30 total, on MCAT; seems to me a total MCAT score of "2X" is a red flag. As for GPA, I would not want to enter this process with anything less than 3.6 for overall or BCPM. Ideally, both your GPA and MCAT would be at or above the matriculant averages of 3.7/31, or at least one of them is. And for the Top 20-30 schools, I would not want anything less than 3.8/33...and higher would be even better.

 

[ezsanche]

GPA (Depending on one's courseload) > MCAT

 

[redsquareblack]

You need to define your terms here. Once someone achieves a 36 or 37 on the MCAT, there are diminishing returns for a higher score.

Quoted for truth. Once an applicant has reached a certain threshold MCAT score, i.e., "High Enough", a higher score no longer has much in the way of predictive power to differentiate applicants. So, the difference between a 36 and a 45 is not as significant as the difference between a 36 and a 27.

Once you get above 2 S.D. of the mean MCAT score, you're talking about very small differences between applicants, differences that may or may not be effectively meaningless.

 

[swamprat]

From first hand experience I can tell you that they weigh MCAT >>>>>>>>>> GPA .

 

[flip26]

From first hand experience I can tell you that they weigh MCAT >>>>>>>>>> GPA .

Not according to a recently published AAMC report entitled "Holistic Review in Medical School Admissions." This is a survey of med school admissions officers around the country...dig into it and you will see that GPA > MCAT if only just slightly...google it for yourself, or look here:

www.aamc.org/members/gsa/meetings/holisticreview.pdf

 

[c5212]

What do you consider low in this hypothetical low MCAT/high GPA situation?

i was just thinking the same thing... "if a 37 or 34 is a low MCAT score... i'm gonna have some issues down the road 🙁"

 

[LateBl00meR]

GPA (Depending on one's courseload) > MCAT

I think that the only way to consider gpa is in the context of the students major/courseload, so another element should probably be added to the Lizzy equation. Obviously a biomedical engineer would look more favorable than a art history major if they both have a 3.5 and similar MCAT.

 

[apumic]

I think that the only way to consider gpa is in the context of the students major/courseload, so another element should probably be added to the Lizzy equation. Obviously a biomedical engineer would look more favorable than a art history major if they both have a 3.5 and similar MCAT.

With a 3.5, both are somewhat below average. Neither is going to be looked upon particularly favorably, although in this case I would agree the engineering student may have somewhat of an advantage due to the fact that it may be a more difficult major and the GPA is borderline when it comes to acceptability. On the other hand, if the art history major had a 3.7 and the engineering student a 3.4, the art history major has a definite advantage (assuming equal MCAT scores).

 

[LateBl00meR]

On the other hand, if the art history major had a 3.7 and the engineering student a 3.4, the art history major has a definite advantage (assuming equal MCAT scores).

That seems to be the general consensus on SDN, that major and undergraduate institution doesn't really matter when it comes to gpa and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Does anyone have actual evidence to this or is it all hearsay?

 

[277768]

I can't believe Duke and Columbia would even give me an interview with a 34. Isn't it all 39s and 37s there?

I feel like the person here:

[YOUTUBE]1nzd0R_OeOc[/YOUTUBE][/QUOTE]

 

[shouldvestudied]

That seems to be the general consensus on SDN, that major and undergraduate institution doesn't really matter when it comes to gpa and it honestly doesn't make sense to me. Does anyone have actual evidence to this or is it all hearsay?

The only people who believe this are art history and psych majors themselves.

 

[JJMrK]

I can't believe Duke and Columbia would even give me an interview with a 34. Isn't it all 39s and 37s there?

I feel like the person here:

A 34 is a great score.

 

[DocMcCoy]

From first hand experience I can tell you that they weigh MCAT >>>>>>>>>> GPA .

...and from first hand experience I can tell you that they weigh GPA >>>>>>>>> MCAT. This can be beat to death while the argument is made in either direction.

 

[DocMcCoy]

😴 Take the advice from the SDN members that are/were members of ADCOMs and leave it at that.

 

[JJThomson]

a) 37+ 3.2(10)= 69 < 34+3.8(10)= 72

b) 34+ 3.0(10)= 64 < 28+ 3.9(10)= 67

Low MCAT and high gpa is often indicative of someone who works hard but doesn't test well OR a school that has grade inflation or little competition.

The high MCAT/low gpa combinations would need a closer look. If this was a non-trad or someone who had a terrible year due to a tragedy, it might be worth a deeper look into the transcript.[/QUOTE]

I think it is interesting that excuses are looked for in the person with the low GPA. Personally I am a single parent, work multiple part time jobs, attend school full time, and participate in multiple volunteer activities. Speaking for myself finding adequate time to prepare for the MCAT was difficult. Doing well in my classes (GPA) has always been my highest academic priority. 4 years of hard work should count for more than my MCAT score.

Besides, the variabilty among MCAT prep time should be considered. Is someone who studied for the MCAT for 6+ months after graduating and got a 36 really more prepared for medical school than someone who studied for 3 months while attending school full time and got a 30?

 

[LizzyM]

I think it is interesting that excuses are looked for in the person with the low GPA. Personally I am a single parent, work multiple part time jobs, attend school full time, and participate in multiple volunteer activities. Speaking for myself finding adequate time to prepare for the MCAT was difficult. Doing well in my classes (GPA) has always been my highest academic priority. 4 years of hard work should count for more than my MCAT score.

Besides, the variabilty among MCAT prep time should be considered. Is someone who studied for the MCAT for 6+ months after graduating and got a 36 really more prepared for medical school than someone who studied for 3 months while attending school full time and got a 30?

We look for explanations for every lopsided gpa/MCAT dyad. GPA>MCAT is going to suggest someone who doesn't test well or who did not prepare for the MCAT (there are also alternative explanations). Preparing and doing well on the MCAT may correlate with preparing and doing well on the board exams. Schools want applicants who are going to do well on the boards, ergo....

We don't choose between pairs of applicants. I have dozens of MCAT 36s while attending school full time so I don't find the 36 after 6 mos of studying to be a great catch.

 

[Compass]

We look for explanations for every lopsided gpa/MCAT dyad. GPA>MCAT is going to suggest someone who doesn't test well or who did not prepare for the MCAT (there are also alternative explanations). Preparing and doing well on the MCAT may correlate with preparing and doing well on the board exams. Schools want applicants who are going to do well on the boards, ergo....

We don't choose between pairs of applicants. I have dozens of MCAT 36s while attending school full time so I don't find the 36 after 6 mos of studying to be a great catch.

When you say look for, is that in an interview Q, or simply browsing their record for the source?

 

[LizzyM]

When you say look for, is that in an interview Q, or simply browsing their record for the source?

Much can be gleaned from the record and the LORs. Sometimes it can come up at interview but the applicant has to be considered quite stellar (top 10% or higher) to be selected for interview. We just don't have the resources to interview everyone whose application raises questions.

 

[randombetch]

a) 37/3.2 or 34/3.8 (uhh obviously this one)

b) 34/3.0 or 28/3.9

I say GPA is slightly more important.

 

[drvgood]

OK I'm looking for actual honest advice from people with experience, not encouragement or whatever. What concerns me most about my profile is my GPA - I'm a biomedical engineering student at a good school - very solid research, EC's, and MCAT (39) but my GPA is 3.5 and science GPA even lower than that (3.3).

Should I take a year off and improve my grades senior year? I hesitate to do this because it is pretty difficult to get A's in my classes...so I don't know if taking a year off would even boost my GPA at all.

Thanks for any advice/opinions!

 

[ezsanche]

It's easier to raise a low mcat score than to raise a GPA.

 

[drvgood]

It's easier to raise a low mcat score than to raise a GPA.

haha so true - i can testify to that first hand...

 

[runawayclock]

Not according to a recently published AAMC report entitled "Holistic Review in Medical School Admissions." This is a survey of med school admissions officers around the country...dig into it and you will see that GPA > MCAT if only just slightly...google it for yourself, or look here:

www.aamc.org/members/gsa/meetings/holisticreview.pdf

Kind of seems obvious since GPA is probably a better indicator than the MCAT for your long term study patterns.

but on that same document i'm surprised that the PS is not among the MCAT and GPA, and that medical volunteering experience isn't much further up than non-medical volunteering experience, at least for the interview offer conditions....

 

[zayka]

I think that schools look more at MCAT than GPA, although I think they shouldn't.

I think GPA should be more important. With GPA, it is an averaged evaluation of consistent performance. MCAT is a one-time exam, and just like in an experiment, you wouldn't base everything on a one time result - it must be replicated! However, the problem with GPA is that undergrad schools range in difficulty and the MCAT is an easy way to rank people. Ideally, I think someone should do a systematic "difficulty" ranking of programs if it is possible.

Yes, I did "bomb" my MCAT (at least compared to what I expected to get) if you were wondering, BTW. It was because of some stuff that happened right before the test and I didn't get much sleep. My school has grade deflation if anything, so this situation stinks a lot.

Therefore, my advice for the young'uns: don't underestimate the importance of the MCAT. Prepare as if your life depended on it. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst test-taking circumstances that may happen.

 

[LizzyM]

OK I'm looking for actual honest advice from people with experience, not encouragement or whatever. What concerns me most about my profile is my GPA - I'm a biomedical engineering student at a good school - very solid research, EC's, and MCAT (39) but my GPA is 3.5 and science GPA even lower than that (3.3).

Should I take a year off and improve my grades senior year? I hesitate to do this because it is pretty difficult to get A's in my classes...so I don't know if taking a year off would even boost my GPA at all.

Thanks for any advice/opinions!

Assuming you are white, applicants with your stats an 85% chance of being admitted somewhere. Factor in your major, your school, and your "solid research" and your chances of being admitted are higher than 85% assuming that you interview well and don't have any red flags in your LOR. Taking a year off to get your gpa to 3.6 would only improve your changes by about 5%, not worth sitting out a cycle, IMHO.

Go forth in confidence.

 

[dokein]

OK I'm looking for actual honest advice from people with experience, not encouragement or whatever. What concerns me most about my profile is my GPA - I'm a biomedical engineering student at a good school - very solid research, EC's, and MCAT (39) but my GPA is 3.5 and science GPA even lower than that (3.3).

Should I take a year off and improve my grades senior year? I hesitate to do this because it is pretty difficult to get A's in my classes...so I don't know if taking a year off would even boost my GPA at all.

Thanks for any advice/opinions!

Look at my MD apps profile. 3.5 and 39 is doable (although your science GPA is a bit lower), depending on the GPA trend.

It really, really, depends on your ECs and LOR and personal statement.

From what I can tell, GPA and MCAT counts for EVERYTHING to get you past an initial screen. If you have a 2.0 and a 20 on your MCAT, you're not going anywhere.

Once you're past that they will look at your ECs and the GPA and MCAT is really only used to determine whether you'll be able to succeed at their school.

Of course it still matters a little bit, but it probably will not determine your application.

 

[dokein]

Assuming you are white, applicants with your stats an 85% chance of being admitted somewhere. Factor in your major, your school, and your "solid research" and your chances of being admitted are higher than 85% assuming that you interview well and don't have any red flags in your LOR. Taking a year off to get your gpa to 3.6 would only improve your changes by about 5%, not worth sitting out a cycle, IMHO.

Go forth in confidence.

I don't know if you would agree, but if he has not yet shown an upward trend, taking a year off and getting all As would help considerably, more than what a 0.1 GPA would indicate.

 

[zetabetazeta]

Assuming you are white, applicants with your stats an 85% chance of being admitted somewhere. Factor in your major, your school, and your "solid research" and your chances of being admitted are higher than 85% assuming that you interview well and don't have any red flags in your LOR. Taking a year off to get your gpa to 3.6 would only improve your changes by about 5%, not worth sitting out a cycle, IMHO.

Go forth in confidence.

Hi, Lizzy. I have a question for you. If I take MCAT twice, are medical schools going to average these two scores, or are they going to take the higher score? This question has bothered me for quite a while..Some people told me it depends on each school. But I guess most schools will take my highest MCAT score, right?

OP, I personally think GPA is more important than MCAT when you look at the big picture. But you do need a decent MCAT (at least 30?).

 

[Handinhand]

How do numbers work in this process?

What's more important GPA or MCAT? Obviously both is ideal.

But what is usually better to have?

a) 37/3.2 or 34/3.8

b) 34/3.0 or 28/3.9


Any feedback would be helpful. I just mean on average schools.

There's too big of a gap between those GPAs, If you had a 3.6/38 and a 3.8/30, I would go with the 3.6. Once you get to a 3.3 and below, I think a high MCAT stops helping you out as much.

 

[Z4doc007]

I think gpa should be a lot more important bc it demonstrates someones academic capability something he or she will be displaying everyday in med school. Mcat is a one time exam and i personally know of many people who not only worked hard in thier undergrad careers but had the capability to get thier grades and a high GPA but were poor test takers and didnt perform so well on thier mcats. I dont think gpa just demonstrates someone whos working hard but the capability to handle their course load, something crucial in med school.

 

[Zona Pellucida]

IMO:

A high GPA - with both overall and BCPM high - combined with any balanced MCAT 30+ (no section scores below 10), is a winning combination for the vast majority of med schools.

Major FAIL for me so far 😛

 

[drvgood]

Assuming you are white, applicants with your stats an 85% chance of being admitted somewhere. Factor in your major, your school, and your "solid research" and your chances of being admitted are higher than 85% assuming that you interview well and don't have any red flags in your LOR. Taking a year off to get your gpa to 3.6 would only improve your changes by about 5%, not worth sitting out a cycle, IMHO.

Go forth in confidence.

Thanks for your input - I will certainly think more about applying this cycle!

 

[LizzyM]

I don't know if you would agree, but if he has not yet shown an upward trend, taking a year off and getting all As would help considerably, more than what a 0.1 GPA would indicate.

An upward trend isn't essential. Good school, tough major, equal parts B/B+/A-, and a top 5% MCAT is going to turn some heads regardless of trends or no trends.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi, Lizzy. I have a question for you. If I take MCAT twice, are medical schools going to average these two scores, or are they going to take the higher score? This question has bothered me for quite a while..Some people told me it depends on each school. But I guess most schools will take my highest MCAT score, right?

It varies by school and within a given school it can vary over time and it can vary among reviewers. You really can't say how it is going to be reviewed.

 

[Eta Carinae]

I think these are pretty poor examples.

Assuming average acceptance numbers are ~30/~3.6, in a) the first student has a well below average GPA, well above average MCAT, while the second student has strong numbers for both. In b) the first student has a very very low GPA, but a strong MCAT, while the second student has an excellent GPA and an MCAT just slightly below average.

An example of 33/3.45 to 28/3.8 seems more reasonable.

Personally, if given the choice between an aveMCAT/superGPA or superMCAT/aveGPA combo, I would absolutely pick the later.

👍

most med school admissions committees would agree with you as well.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

MCAT & GPA grid on the AAMC website:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

Tells you acceptance rates at different GPAs and MCAT scores.

 

[Eta Carinae]

I think gpa should be a lot more important bc it demonstrates someones academic capability something he or she will be displaying everyday in med school. Mcat is a one time exam and i personally know of many people who not only worked hard in thier undergrad careers but had the capability to get thier grades and a high GPA but were poor test takers and didnt perform so well on thier mcats. I dont think gpa just demonstrates someone whos working hard but the capability to handle their course load, something crucial in med school.

Regardless of what you think, MCAT score has consistently been shown to be the best predictor of med school performance.

Firstly, your GPA may indicate your dilligence in doing the "work" but the MCAT measures your actual intellectual capacity better than GPA. You can't influence your MCAT score really by studying harder. It as close as measuring IQ as there is, certainly closer than GPA.

And when it comes to studying medicine, let's face it- there is an intelligence/intellectual threshold that's required...and it's pretty high. There is a preponderance of scientific material you will be required to learn and assimilate in a short amount of time and retain for the entirety of your career.

This is highly unusual, but on one of my residency interviews for Anesthesiology, the department chairman mentioned that my MCAT score was another factor that influenced his selection of me.

Summary: MCAT matters more than GPA. A 4.1/4.0 will not negate the effect of a mediocre score.