gpa/where to go

[md2bknox]

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I was curious to know if your suppose to look at the carried credits which would be 126 for me or 96? Just wondering.
Also I am in a bind, I currently have a gpa of 2.09, due to some working and illness. I am thinking about doing a retroactive withdrawl from one of my semesters because it was ridiculous and I should have withdrew from it before, it's harder to get a retroactive withdraw. I have plenty of evidence though. If that were to go through I would definitely be at about 2.3.
Without the withdrawl I should graduate with 2.75 overall gpa. Good thing is that I really have not messed up with my bcpm because I have not taken them.
My plan is to take a master's in public health because I don't see myself in a hard science masters since I have not taken any hard sciences, I don't see them accepting me (or am I wrong). While I am taking my master's I do plan to take some hard sciences. I am going on my fifth year so there is but so much improving that I will do before I graduate. I want to apply for medical school but is his plausible, most public health programs are a year. I would be applying during the my master's program so I don't see how they would see any improvements. I do plan on applying to med school and SMPS at the same time. Should I not even waste the money and just apply to SMPS. I guess I am just wondering what I should apply for or where I should start going from graduation.
My gpa currently is a 2.09 overall. I don't see a reason to take over any classes unfortunately because they aren't premed classes? Just needed some opinions.

-can you apply for a hard science master's without any sciences? just an interest?

 

[tazlmc5]

I am in the a very similar situation. I am working a Hopkins and my GPA is about a 2.7 and I have about 7 credits left to take. So I am very nervous, due to various promotions at work and having to get a second job at the hospital, my GPA suffered. I do however have publications out of Hopkins and NIH, does anyone have any advice, I also plan on taking the MCAT in May. Any thought. I am also going to take a graduate class over the summer to help my GPA. Does anyone else have any advice?

 

[Jessica Stone]

I am in the a very similar situation. I am working a Hopkins and my GPA is about a 2.7 and I have about 7 credits left to take. So I am very nervous, due to various promotions at work and having to get a second job at the hospital, my GPA suffered. I do however have publications out of Hopkins and NIH, does anyone have any advice, I also plan on taking the MCAT in May. Any thought. I am also going to take a graduate class over the summer to help my GPA. Does anyone else have any advice?

I think it might be best if you tried taking more undergrad courses and lift your GPA above 3.0

I know Johns Hopkins is a tough school, but I think a 2.7 is too low for most medical schools. How do you think you'll do on your MCAT's?

 

[ChairmanMao]

I think it might be best if you tried taking more undergrad courses and lift your GPA above 3.0

I know Johns Hopkins is a tough school, but I think a 2.7 is too low for most medical schools. How do you think you'll do on your MCAT's?

Just to clarify a point: a sub 3.0 GPA, no matter from what type of school or major, is going to severly impact your chances of admissions. If you look through the MSAR or the AAMC's own website, you will see that the average GPA of accepted applicant is about 3.65 with a standard deviation of 0.3, the "acceptable borderline GPA" of applicant is about 3.3 (you can get by with a lower GPA if your MCAT is really high - like upper-30s or lower-40s). However, I would really recommend that you try to salvage your undergrad GPA before going to a Master's program. Medical schools do consider the difficulty and rigor of the school where you went to, however, there are a lot of applicants from Hopkins, Harvard, MIT, etc who have 3.7, 3.8, and 4.0 - so going to a competitive school is not going to make up for a low GPA. If you browse through the SDN forum, you will find many threads about doing "GPA damage control". There are many ways to improve your undergrad GPA, either by taking more classes or doing an SMP - however, I would say that you are probably putting the cart before the horse if you try to take the MCAT with anything less than a 3.0 since so many schools will automatically screen you out based on your GPA.

 

[NTF]

Just to reinforce Chairman Mao's point about the importance of repairing your UNDERGRAD GPA. Here's a new table I saw in Pre-Allo Forum:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/...-app-accpt.htm

Even with a 39-45 MCAT your chances are only 50% of getting in with a 2.7 GPA and they fall precipitously with each lower MCAT score range.

Your best bet is not to do a master's of any kind (unless it's an SMP with matriculation or interview benefits) but to take an extended post-bacc and repair that GPA as best you can while cultivating interesting ECs.

Good luck to you. I'll be rooting for you.

 

[airca12]

Even with a 39-45 MCAT your chances are only 50% of getting in...

But the overall acceptance rate is only 46% (according to the table and general statistics).

I think I'd be content with a 50% chance of acceptance. Apply to over 35 schools and you could snag an acceptance at that rate. It would worry me if my chances were under 38%.

I don't know. I think the table is highly misleading. In some categories the sample size was very small, so it's just not accurate. Plus there are a lot of other hidden variables in those numbers like residency and ethnicity.

Anyways, good luck.

 

[tazlmc5]

Thank you Airica, I think that there are additional factors that play a role in your acceptance, because even people with a low GPA, a GPA of 2.7 have a 21% chance of acceptance with a mid 30 MCAT score, so my question is: what is it that they have that allows them to be so unique that they are accepted?

 

[njbmd]

The entire application is considered and every application is considered within the context of that applicant's competitiveness with those who apply to a particular school. That being said, any numbers or statistics that are being tossed around were for past years. Every year, the uGPA (not graduate) has been increasing and those folks who are below 3.0 face a very steep hill in terms of medical school admissions. This year, at my two schools, people with 3.5 uGPA are being rejected because they are just not competitive enough. Bottom line: choose your school's widely and carefully because below 3.0 (no matter what MCAT score you have, publications etc) you are at a significant disadvantage.

Graduate school (MPH included) will not significantly increase your competitiveness for medical school if your uGPA (the only one that counts) is not competitive. If you can get break the 3.0, a strong performance in an SMP is a good option. Here, strong performance is the key because mediocre will kill your chances.

Keep in mind that most P.A. or pharmacy schools are requiring a minimum 3.0 uGPA for even consideration of your application which should give you some idea of where the uGPA for medicine has gone. Don't let anecdotal stories lull you into spending thousands of dollars in attempting admission into medical school (DO or MD) that has a very small chance of working for you. You would do much better putting that admissions application money into tuition for post bacc courses (not graduate except SMP) that would make you more competitive. In short,get yourself in better shape in terms of uGPA.

I am sitting here looking at an application of a person who has applied three times in a row with an uGPA of 3.2 (good LORs, research, a phone call from a PI at Hopkins) to whom we just cannot invite for interview with the group that we have yet to interview. In today's climate, that undergraduate GPA is just not competitive even with strong extracurricular activities. The applications are extremely competitive this year and that trend is not expected to drop. "But I will be that one exception" is just not sound thinking in this case. Realism has to set in at some point.

Yes, everything counts but extracurriculars do not offset a poor uGPA/MCAT. MCAT does not offset a poor uGPA. It's a tough situation but not an impossible situation. Under 3.0 (even under 3.5) is very, very difficult to overcome and statistics from past years don't count for individuals. This is a tough year and getting tougher with the poor economy and thousands looking at medicine as a "sure thing" to wealth.

With a poor uGPA your options are:

• Take more post bacc courses and get that uGPA into competitive range.
• Apply for and perform well in a Special Masters Program for medical school application enhancement.

The road ahead is not easy but anything worth doing is not going to be easy.

 

[ChairmanMao]

Thank you Airica, I think that there are additional factors that play a role in your acceptance, because even people with a low GPA, a GPA of 2.7 have a 21% chance of acceptance with a mid 30 MCAT score, so my question is: what is it that they have that allows them to be so unique that they are accepted?

I think you're missing the point here. As njbmd and nontradfogie are pointing out, the question you should be asking yourself is not how you can make yourself unique so that you can be accepted with a 2.7, but how you can pull and drag your GPA up to a 3.0 minimum (preferably a 3.5 or higher GPA) since that seems to be the minimum acceptable standard nowadways for an applicant straight out of school like yourself.

I wouldn't put much weight on the statistics that the AAMC post on their website because you don't know who those applicants with the 2.7 are or what hardships they've overcome. Granted, there was an applicant at my school a few years ago who got in with a 2.8, but he was orphaned at a young age and was homeless and living in the subways before he won a scholarship to study at my school. Besides that, have you taken the MCAT? Getting a mid-30 or high-30 score on that test is freaking tough. My point is that it is a lot easier and more effective to repair your GPA than to try any number of crazy things or extracurricular "gimmicks" to get the attention of the admissions committee (and believe me, a lot of people with higher GPAs have done or tried something unique to make their applications stand out).

 

[airca12]

With a poor uGPA your options are:

• Take more post bacc courses and get that uGPA into competitive range.

Is it acceptable to take postbac courses (other than the science prereqs) for the purpose of improving my cGPA? For instance, is it ok for me to take anthropology or sociology 101 (and the like) for easy A's to boost my cGPA? Does this look bad?

 

[FutureDrB]

Is it acceptable to take postbac courses (other than the science prereqs) for the purpose of improving my cGPA? For instance, is it ok for me to take anthropology or sociology 101 (and the like) for easy A's to boost my cGPA? Does this look bad?

Yes it's acceptable. However, you'd be better off retaking any courses that you received D's or F's in.

This is assuming you are doing so for DO acceptance since DO will allow grade replacement. If you are going MD route, then retaking courses will technically raise your GPA, but will not help you when you apply since MD application doesn't figure in only the replacement grades for courses retaken to get a higher grade, it still figures in the lower grade too.

That's what I'm having to do and you'll be amazed at how much it helps. I'm only retaking 1 semester of courses (15 hours -all F's - not that I did poorly, I just didn't officially withdraw that semester) and my GPA will go from a 2.2 to a 2.9... figure in my science pre-reqs and I'll be over 3.0.

You just have to do the math/grade calculations on your end and see what works best for you.

 

[Inspire Aspire]

This year, at my two schools, people with 3.5 uGPA are being rejected because they are just not competitive enough.

If I wasn't a positive thinking person this would be depressing....

However, you'd be better off retaking any courses that you received D's ....

I'm going to try hard not to think about this today as one of the two courses I would need to retake is Differential Equations. And honestly I was so happy to get out of it the first time that taking it again just seems like torture.

I'm going to go to my happy place now full of wonderfully interesting science study and no thoughts of the ugly math class.

 

[FutureDrB]

If I wasn't a positive thinking person this would be depressing....


I'm going to try hard not to think about this today as one of the two courses I would need to retake is Differential Equations. And honestly I was so happy to get out of it the first time that taking it again just seems like torture.

I'm going to go to my happy place now full of wonderfully interesting science study and no thoughts of the ugly math class.

Yes! Remain a positive thinker. (I too am in the same boat as you.) Take the statistics about 3.5 GPA's getting declined with a grain of salt. You have to realize how many people get accepted with higher GPAs than this, and lower GPAs than this. Remember the 3.5 is an average. So for every 4.0er there was a 3.0er.

Just check out the admission statistics for different schools here http://www.mdapplicants.com/ and hopefully that will help calm your nerves. Trust me, plenty of people are accepted with sub-3.5 GPAs, as well as sub-3.0 GPAs for that matter.

Just do what you have to do to get that GPA up in the 3.0 range and be sure to acquire a ton of volunteer and EC work to help counter the lower GPA. Oh, and write a knockout Personal Statement.