Graduate Coursework

[berkeleyvala]

Well, its getting late in the cycle, and I'm on several waitlists, but while I'm hoping for the best, I should prepare for the worst.

One of the weaknesses on my application is my GPA. My overall is 3.42, while my BCPM is 3.2...I'm considering doing a masters in public health. My question is, would my graduate gpa stand apart from my undergraduate gpa? or would the graduate credit hours be calculated with my undergraduate gpa? How's this work?

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[Isoprop]

grad grades are seperated. they will be taken into consideration but will not make up for ugrad gpa.


the only graduate level classes that "count" are SMPs. check out the post-bacc forum. check out the official guide to special masters program and the post-bacc faqs stickies on top.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=346106
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=114425

 

[Blade28]

Your undergrad GPA is separate from your graduate GPA. Unfortunately, high grades in a Master's program carry very little weight in the admissions process. The exception to this, as stated above, is an SMP program.

You're better off taking post-bac classes to improve your undergrad GPA.

 

[gman33]

MPH will not help your application.
Another year of UG upper-level science classes will (if you do well).

If that still doesn't work, try a SMP.

 

[RxnMan]

Well, its getting late in the cycle, and I'm on several waitlists, but while I'm hoping for the best, I should prepare for the worst.

One of the weaknesses on my application is my GPA. My overall is 3.42, while my BCPM is 3.2...I'm considering doing a masters in public health. My question is, would my graduate gpa stand apart from my undergraduate gpa? or would the graduate credit hours be calculated with my undergraduate gpa? How's this work?

Grad degrees are calculated separately from ugrad gpa. Getting a master's will help like doing a neat EC will help, but it won't help you in the GPA department.

 

[bioteach]

Look at my MDApps. If you need a GPA boost do not go for a master's degree. Its essentially a nice EC. Take undergrad upper-level science classes or an SMP.

 

[Pedsbro]

I'm a current student at the Cincinnati SMP (MS in Physiology)... I applied to med school and didn't get in, so I took this SMP and will be reapplying this June. SMP is definitely the way to go. To be fair, in talking to former admissions committee members who are part of our faculty in the SMP here, I would disagree with people saying a Masters degree is useless or that graduate GPA won't help or makeup for lackluster undergrad gpas, but it does matter what kind of Masters. I looked into MPH programs and if you look closely at the courses (at least for the programs I looked at), there aren't a lot of science courses to bring up that science GPA in an MPH. Keep this in mind when you look for degree programs. I do know several people who got into med school after getting an MPH (with lackluster undergrad gpa)...so to say it can't help is misleading in my opinion. But I think SMPs offer a better opportunity.
I would not take a post-bac...it's one year of more undergrad courses and all you get is a certificate (if that) to show for it. SMP's offer one year of graduate (and even medical) coursework and are built for applicants and re-applicants who need a boost in GPA, AND you get a masters degree out of it. However, getting back to the usefulness of masters degrees, the degree from an SMP puts some initials after your name, but if you don't get into med school, that SMP masters degree is not very useful in most other fields, because you don't have to do the benchwork research that's involved in all other masters degrees. An MPH will at least offer another career path for you. But SMP is still my recommendation...
Look at the list of SMPs and decide what's for you. If any of you have specific questions on the Cincy SMP program, feel free to ask. It is comparable to Georgetown's version (in many ways better, which is why I chose it over G-town, Boston U, and Tuft's programs) and I would highly recommend it. Here's something to think about it if you're set on MPH...Tuft's SMP offers a Masters in Biomedical Sciences for the first year, and if you'd like, you can take an optional second year and get an MPH also. MBS and an MPH in two years...not bad...

 

[TheBlueBlazer]

I agree that SMP is probably the way to go. I pretty much did everything wrong because of poor advising. After UG, I took a year off to work, and applied with a 3.2ish GPA and a 37 MCAT, and pretty good ECs. I got 3 interviews, no acceptances.

Because I didn't have the money to put into an SMP, I took some more (16 credits - the max we could) undergrad classes, and got all As, but barely dented my GPA. Because of timing, my MCAT scores became too old, and was forced to take it again, and raised my score 2 points.

I applied again, while doing my MPH, and got 4 interviews, 3 waitlists, and again no acceptances. With an 3.9 GPA in my MPH program, I've applied a third time, albeit late because I was told I had a VERY good shot at getting off the waitlist at one school and didn't have the $ to pay for AMCAS if I didn't have to. I have a DO acceptance, and am still waiting on Drexel (still regular admissions, not waitlist).

My good friend who had a comparable GPA and lower MCAT did the Georgetown SMP right after undergrad, and will be starting his fourth year of medical school when I start my first. I feel like the whole process has made me more sure that this is what I want to do, and more appreciative of the opportunity to go to medical school, and I believe that my MPH has been incredible helping me to understand "the system" a whole lot more, but the SMP is the way to go.

 

[Pedsbro]

I have similar stats myself. If you don't mind saying, do you know which schools your friend got accepted to after doing the SMP?

 

[LadyWolverine]

I disagree wholeheartedly with most of the nay-sayers on here who claim that a non-SMP masters degree will not help you get into medical school. I attribute most of my success in the application process to my M.S., and the opportunities that came from being involved in my program. I did not do an SMP. I did, however, take mostly science courses. There was a bit of both MPH- and policy-related coursework, but the vast majority was composed of statistics, biochem, immuno, micro, etc. (It is true that your graduate GPA is counted separately from your UG GPA. Still, if you can maintain a 4.0 in grad school, this will certainly reflect well on your application.)

Another important consideration is the atmosphere in which you will be working. I had a great experience in graduate school, a very low-stress, stimulating, and healthy class environment (which is much more than I can say for most SMPs), and incredible classmates and mentors. I was also able to stand out without being labeled a "gunner." Only a tiny minority of people in my program were there with the intent of ultimately going to medical school - most were PhD track, or graduating with M.S. to work in government or industry (I actually started out as a 1st-year PhD track student in Immunology & Micro). Many of my classmates were exceptional people with diverse backgrounds (career first responders/fire dept, DHS/DHHS/FDA, TIGR, etc.). Only a few were fresh-out-of-undergrad - most were older, with at least a few years of work under their belt. In terms of class composition, the SMP at the same school was a polar opposite.

SMPs are incredibly high-stress environments - perhaps even more so than medical school. I do not thrive in such cutthroat surroundings. I had to work hard and stand out in my program, but I never, EVER felt like I was competing against anybody but myself. I had plenty of time to volunteer at the hospital, shadow doctors, go to journal clubs and department talks, and actually have a life. And the connections that I was able to make led to some pretty compelling reference letters.

I don't understand why some people are so quick to dismiss M.S. programs as "neat EC"s. Had I opted to do the SMP at the same school, I probably would have ended up exactly where I am now.

 

[Pedsbro]

Those are some interesting generalizations about SMPs coming from someone who has never been in one!

 

[TheBlueBlazer]

I have similar stats myself. If you don't mind saying, do you know which schools your friend got accepted to after doing the SMP?

I assume this was directed at me? He did the G'town masters and is at G'town now. He basically sacrificed a year of his life to the library to do so, though. The program is not for someone who won't be able to get A's in a very competitive program.

I also don't think I gave enough attention to how eye-opening and valuable my MPH was, even though I think ultimately that it did very little to help my application. For me it was an ease/endpoint question. I'll be better off in the long-run doing things the way that I did, but at the expense of a hell of a lot of frustration in the short term.

 

[Pedsbro]

I assume this was directed at me? He did the G'town masters and is at G'town now. He basically sacrificed a year of his life to the library to do so, though. The program is not for someone who won't be able to get A's in a very competitive program.

I also don't think I gave enough attention to how eye-opening and valuable my MPH was, even though I think ultimately that it did very little to help my application. For me it was an ease/endpoint question. I'll be better off in the long-run doing things the way that I did, but at the expense of a hell of a lot of frustration in the short term.

Oh ok cool. I'm in the Cincinnati SMP right now and getting ready to apply. It's based off the G-town model, but much smaller, which is nice. G-town reserves spots in their med class for a number of their SMP students...unfortunately Cincy doesn't. I was curious to see if there were any other schools that gave him a chance because of his SMP.

 

[TheBlueBlazer]

I'm sure he would have, but the only place he ever wanted to go was G'town - grew up and went to HS all right there

 

[RxnMan]

I disagree wholeheartedly with most of the nay-sayers on here who claim that a non-SMP masters degree will not help you get into medical school. I attribute most of my success in the application process to my M.S., and the opportunities that came from being involved in my program...

I agree with much of LadyWolverine's comments. My MS also helped me get in into med school, and I also enjoyed the low-stress environment of a graduate school that wasn't involved with medicine. However, I know that pound-for-pound, my applications would have had a better response if my ugrad GPA was better. I also know that ADCOMs don't value a graduate degree compared to a good ugrad GPA. That's their values, not mine, but you have to play by their rules in order to get to the next level.