Graduate GPA
Started by DDSY
i'm thinking that they count everything... they'll probably take it into consideration where you did your post bac... like in a community college or a 4 year university or something.
Yeah, I was thinking that they look at everything. However, when I looking at the ADEA guide to dental schools, it seems like many dental schools only look at undergrad GPA, ie case. Of course, I think post-bac is included in undergrad, but not graduate or professional schools. However, many schools are also vague about this.
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Undergrad is key. Most grad programs boot you if you fail to maintain a 3.0, so I have been told by an adcoms member that they think it is easier to get a better GPA in grad school, and that most go up. In addition, the course work isnt as heavy etc. My experience personally was that many, if not all of my grad school courses were harder than my undergrad and I just worked harder at doing well in them. Still, I think for many schools, my 3.0 undergrad GPA will count more than my 3.6 grad GPA... unfortunately.
Actually I called a few schools in regards to that question. Specifically I asked what they looked at highly, a post-bacc or masters/graduate work. They clearly said a masters or taking graduate classes is looked upon better since it reflects your ability to handle the next level of classes. Schools I called for those interested were NYU, Buffalo, and Boston.
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I was told the same thing by a dental school
It seems illogical for admissions to weigh ugrad gpa heavier than grad gpa especially when grad classes are harder but that is what i have heared also. the reasoning that its easier to get a better GPA in grad school just based on the fact that if you dont have a 3.0 you get the boot is also kinda bs. So what if there is a gpa you have to maintain in order to not get the boot? having that condition doesnt necessarily make it easier to get a higher gpa because of it. i mean you still have to work your butt off in order to score a 3.6 like you did. Although i think someone going by the post bacc route would have to prove themself in all other areas besides grad gpa alone like DAT scores, extracurriculars and what not just to make up for a sh*tty ugrad gpa.
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Yeah, grad school is so much harder that it's merely a coincidence that all of these SDN'ers have awful undergad GPAs and then achieve 3.8's in grad school just a year later. That's just a coincidence right? Oh wait, they were just "immature" right or had "extenuating" circumstances. It had nothing to do with the fact that some of those undergrad classes were more difficult. They just bought some motivational books and achieved a two standard deviation improvement in GPA in "harder" graduate classes? And, I'm sure it's a coincidence that everyone with subpar undergrad GPA's and excellent Grad GPA's all say that grad school was harder. They are all telling the truth right becase I was really expecting some of them to say that grad school was easier.
So let me get this straight, it's so much harder to take have 1-2 yearsto finish a research project at your leisure and be graded on subjective criteria such as your advisors impression of you versus fighting with 400 students in weeders like Gen Chem, O-chem and Physics for an A. Is that why there is people starting threads about taking Gen Chem II online or taking pre-req's at community colleges? Coincidence right? Because we all know it's so much more difficult to compete with 20 people in a grad school program versus 300 in a class. Yes, why would an adcom give more weight to undergrad work? I guess the world will never know
You fail to separate thesis vs non thesis graduate degrees, I don't know what dental schools really take into account in terms of graduate GPA but kind sir let me tell you, graduate classes are NOT a walk in the park. Try to imagine the hardest semester you've had in undergrad and now up the level of difficulty of the material a few notches. That's what my graduate experience as been like. Add in the few classes where most of your fellow students are postdocs sitting in and you get very very humbled by the company you are in. Graduate school can be made as easy or as difficult as you want it to be, just take as many pertinent courses you're allowed per semester and bam you have a challenge right there. I'm not doing any research, that means all objective testing in all my classes. Yes you need to maintain a 3.0 but that is by no means facilitated by the faculty. I personally know 3 people who got kicked out because of failing grades.
You think undergrad is more difficult because there are 400 kids in a class vs 20 in a grad school and you have some more time to finish a research project? Gen. ChemII threads? hahaha...
You know that most grad programs discussed on these forums involve just about the same courseload and the same coursework as dental schools and med schools? Check out the dental forum, see how 'easy' their lives are. Grad programs are no walk in the park. Obviously each one differs, but I know many people who have gone through some biomed grad programs and have struggled tremendously - despite their hard work... There's no way you can say undergrad is easier because in most cases, it simply is not!
Aaahh, graduate school. .. I didn't expect it cause some contention. Anyhow, having experienced both sides of the universe, let me share some thoughts. I thought that undergrad definitely has more slackers than grad school. Grad students tend to be more focused, prob b/c they actually enjoy what they are doing/and that is their chosen area/career. Normally you have to maintain above a 3.0 for grad school, but that by no means is easier. I find grad school more frustrating many times than undergrad.
However, undergrad is no walk in the park either and the difficulty of the curriculum depends on who you have, where you go, the credits you signed up for, etc. Also grades can go all the way down and there is no conscious efforts by professors to give students close to/above a B. For example, in my physics class, the average grade on a typical exam was a 30/100. That in itself, can cause a significant amount of frustration (Of course the average final grade was raised to a B-).
However, undergrad is no walk in the park either and the difficulty of the curriculum depends on who you have, where you go, the credits you signed up for, etc. Also grades can go all the way down and there is no conscious efforts by professors to give students close to/above a B. For example, in my physics class, the average grade on a typical exam was a 30/100. That in itself, can cause a significant amount of frustration (Of course the average final grade was raised to a B-).
I couldn't agree more. I'm in my first semester of graduate school, and let me tell you it is extremely difficult to say the least! The expression is, is that graduate students 25 hours a day, 8 days a week. I literally study almost all day, and then go to class for three hours in the evening. Never have I been such a nerd. Not only do I study the majority of the day on Sundays, but have been known to throw in 5 hours study sessions on Saturdays! I have to sacrifice my college football 🙁
Anyways, before I go off on a tangent, it seems as if this thread has veered off course. To the initial poster, I really think graduate school is looked upon highly. Although I feel as long as you don't get C's, I don't think it's as much a numbers game as it was in undergrad. Simply because if you're in graduate school "only" to boost your grades, it will literally take almost two years of almost all A's to do so. Luckily I happen to be doing very well, and hope to continue to do so. This will prove to dental schools that I am a serious student and can truly handle the rigors of dental school. I have the feeling that many undergrads want to 'think' they can handle the work in dental school, but are in for a rude awakening. Graduate school is a whole new ballgame my friends; and to think dental is worse in terms of load, stress, and competition, well I'm sure you can agree with me that dental school is just in a different league!
Umm.. you DID sign up for grad school, right? You knew it would be more difficult than undergrad.
FYI, I study more than what you described for my undergrad courses. If I only studied 5 hours on a Saturday and Sunday, that actually would be quite a vacation.
FYI #2: my study habits are by no means unusual. I know plenty of people who put in 70+ hour weeks studying for undergrad. It's by no means uncommon. At least I know my hard work will get into dental school right away (and won't have to take a Master's just to give myself a chance to get into dental school...).
So studying throughout the week, then 5 hours on a Saturday, and starting to study on Sunday for the first time in your life sounds pretty relaxed compared to what a lot of people do. Not sure what you're whining about.
I dont think that post was whiny,I think you need to stop being so self-righteous. And it wouldnt hurt to be a little considerate,either(see bolded text).
Says the pot to the kettle.
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Oh? When did I ever come onto a thread of people in grad school getting their masters and state that i worked hard enough in ugrad to not have to go to grad school to get into d-school?
You missed the point. Whatever. I am not going to E-argue with anyone on the internets. Kthxbye!
You may not, but I will certainly pick a bone with you. Who said I never studied on Sundays? While Sunday was the day of rest for most of my friends, it certainly was not for me. I would normally take Friday and Saturdays off in undergrad for one of two reasons: 1) to get away from school, or 2) to DJ. I owned a business all through undergrad, was head philanthropy chair in my house, had many community services, and still managed to shadow several dentists.
Oh, and "FYI" I was not whining about anything; and uh yeah I "signed up" for graduate school. And for the record, I am taking very advanced courses which aren't offered in undergrad unless you are a so-called honors student. So with that in mind, yea ok I slipped up my sophomore year. I truly bit off more than I could chew. I maintained an increasing grade point for the rest of my years, topping off my senior year with a 3.8. I made some mistakes, but I'm human, who doesn't? I never said anything was easy, I just think some people may develop a false sense of security with the general sciences courses offered in undergrad. In no way was I criticising anyone and their studies nor complaining about my situation.
And your quote "At least I know my hard work will get into dental school right away (and won't have to take a Master's just to give myself a chance to get into dental school...)." Is really ignorant and rude buddy. I am so sorry I wasn't blessed with your god given ability to study for hours on end. And I am certainly not alone. Lots of people don't get in their first time applying. If anything, I should be admired more for my pursuit of dentistry rather than criticised for taking an alternative route to where I truly want to be. Something to think about before you poke at kids without your brilliant intellect.
Oh, and you don't "take a Master's." You attain a Master's through graduate study. Good luck to you sir.
And another thing, let's go ahead and break down my hours. I wake up at 7, and work out until 9. I study on campus from 10:30-6 every single day before my 3 hour class until 9. I get home at 9:30 only to squeeze another hour or sometimes two ore three if there is an exam in the near future.
Right there, that's averaging 8-10 hours of studying a day. If you do the math, which I'm sure by now you've already figured out since you're so brilliant, that's 40-50 hours a week of studying. Not to mention my wonderful weekends. Every now and then I can go out on a Friday, however, with midterms, papers, and presentations, that is certainly not an option. I will continue to study for my exams anywhere from 5-6 hours Saturday and AT LEAST 5 hours on Sunday. Put it all together and that's 50-60 hours a week of studying. Now you "say" you have friends who put in 70+ hours of studying a week, and I say that is a completely embelished number. And as for you my man, If you were to even put up the numbers of having your nose in a book as I do, you would not have a life outside of school. It's very simple because there's really not enough time in the day, unless you average 4 hours of sleep a night. So I will end with, "you're so priveledged to know people who study more than I do." Just remember, numbers aren't everything engineers. You DO need extra curriculars to spice up your application. And if you think you can get by with insane grades and great DATs, you are in the wrong place to criticise.
So my only advice is that if you are an undergrad, and study as much as I do, you MUST develop a new sense of balance in order to participate in extra curriculars. Because I truly do not have a life as of this semester, and don't see it getting any better. And for the record, I am not complaining. I knew I was fighting an uphill battle from the beginning. And it'll make my acceptance that much sweeter.
Right there, that's averaging 8-10 hours of studying a day. If you do the math, which I'm sure by now you've already figured out since you're so brilliant, that's 40-50 hours a week of studying. Not to mention my wonderful weekends. Every now and then I can go out on a Friday, however, with midterms, papers, and presentations, that is certainly not an option. I will continue to study for my exams anywhere from 5-6 hours Saturday and AT LEAST 5 hours on Sunday. Put it all together and that's 50-60 hours a week of studying. Now you "say" you have friends who put in 70+ hours of studying a week, and I say that is a completely embelished number. And as for you my man, If you were to even put up the numbers of having your nose in a book as I do, you would not have a life outside of school. It's very simple because there's really not enough time in the day, unless you average 4 hours of sleep a night. So I will end with, "you're so priveledged to know people who study more than I do." Just remember, numbers aren't everything engineers. You DO need extra curriculars to spice up your application. And if you think you can get by with insane grades and great DATs, you are in the wrong place to criticise.
So my only advice is that if you are an undergrad, and study as much as I do, you MUST develop a new sense of balance in order to participate in extra curriculars. Because I truly do not have a life as of this semester, and don't see it getting any better. And for the record, I am not complaining. I knew I was fighting an uphill battle from the beginning. And it'll make my acceptance that much sweeter.
No it's not.
Take 4-5 hours of class per day, and go home and study 6-7 hours during the week. Study throughout the day, both Saturday and Sunday. 70 hour week, right there. Still leaves time for hanging out during the evenings Friday, Saturday, and once in a while during the week. Mind you, engineering courses are very difficult, so that's why we study lots. Good luck with your master's
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I am in the department of biological sciences. It's a non-thesis program. I decided to go to graduate school because I wasn't accepted to dental school last year. After several sitdowns with adcoms, they recommend that I take more upper level courses. So I figured, why not work towards a master's.
What happened your sophomore year? Just curious, if you don't mind...
I transfered from industrial management to pre-dentistry. I had to double up on my sciences courses, and it was my first year living in a fraternity. It was very difficult for me to manage my time with my schoolwork, extra curriculars, and positions in the house.
