Graduates of unprestigious med schools at prestigious residency programs.

[Obnoxious Dad]

If someone from a lower tier medical school matches into a highly prestigious residency (this does happen), will that resident generally be looked down upon by his/her peers? Are there often subtle reminders that the resident did not go to Hopkins? Does anybody really care?

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[Substance]

Although I'm still a medical student, basic human nature would probably make sense here.

If you excelled in medicine at a plebian university enough to land a prestigious residency where you will be in the presence of well-to-do overachievers, these overachieving residents may resent you for being on the same level as them in spite of your humble training.

These residents may have entitlement issues, and feel that you are not entitled to the same residency as them because you come from a school of barbarians.

 

[gutonc]

Agree...overall, nobody will care. You will constantly hear statements from both staff and other residents that being with "when I was at Hopkins" but they probably won't even remember where you went to school...they're just being jerks and it has nothing to do with you.

The annoying thing is that you'll have patients who ask where you went to medical school but don't care where you did your residency (and where you actually got most/all of your useful training). I've heard attendings who went (as I did) to a lower-tier med school respond to that question by saying they trained at "Prestigious program X" where they went to residency or fellowship.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I don't know.

People in New York care. They care, literally, where you went to freaking nursery school (Epiphany, anyone? 92nd St Y?)

And if you're bad... watch out. We have one guy in a department I won't identify who is an absolute idiot and a terrible resident. All of us med students were like, wow, what is up with that guy? And then we found out where he went to medical school, and it absolutely reinforces every nascent prejudice anyone ever had. It's not his school, it's him, but the two have blended together in the public mind.

Normal people, however, shouldn't care.

 

[Substance]

Normal people, however, shouldn't care.

Therein lies the rub.

 

[dragonfly99]

Agree with wagy,
I have to think hard to even remember where 1/2 the people in my IM residency program went to med school.
Most patients don't have a clue about the medical training system either, though some might ask where you went to med school and/or residency.

 

[Finally M3]

No one cares. They care about the job you do. A fu*kup from an Ivy still means that you are a fu*kup.

 

[Doowai]

I went to a crappy Caribbean school and matched last year to a University Fam Med program. Lots of the residents were AMG grads and a few had matched into surgery, but resigned and entered Fam Med for lifestyle. While not real prestigious I experienced no prejudice - and many of the American grads expressed appreciation for my musculoskeletal knowledge gained from years of experience as a chiropractor.

But I asked my brother - he is an orthopedic surgeon, graduated at the top of his class from Hopkins, did residency at Hopkins, is now department chair at a major US university residency program, and 2 years ago was president of a national medical association, and is one of the major names in the certification of level 1 trauma facilities - he is a contributing editor of some major medial journals, travels to other countries to help them set up trauma centers and a bunch of other prestigious stuff. I asked him - he said no. If you make it into "the club" so to speak you are in. Once you are in the club you then ostracize everyone not in the club , but not those in the club for who they were prior to the club. From what he said, once you make it in you are one of "us".

 

[maceo]

If someone from a lower tier medical school matches into a highly prestigious residency (this does happen), will that resident generally be looked down upon by his/her peers? Are there often subtle reminders that the resident did not go to Hopkins? Does anybody really care?

you cannot be serious..... I certainly dont care.. the best resident at my program was from ROSS university in the carribean. Its all about attitude.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

you cannot be serious..... I certainly dont care.. the best resident at my program was from ROSS university in the carribean. Its all about attitude.

I am delighted to hear that nobody seems to care where you went to med school.

The reason I posed the question is that many posters in the pre allo forum seem to be totally preoccupied with med school prestige. If no one really cares where you went to school, this prestige mania seems a bit pointless.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am delighted to hear that nobody seems to care where you went to med school.

The reason I posed the question is that many posters in the pre allo forum seem to be totally preoccupied with med school prestige. If no one really cares where you went to school, this prestige mania seems a bit pointless.

That says it all.

Don't listen to pre-meds talk about what life is like as a resident or attending physician. They have no idea.

 

[Law2Doc]

Although I'm still a medical student, basic human nature would probably make sense here.

If you excelled in medicine at a plebian university enough to land a prestigious residency where you will be in the presence of well-to-do overachievers, these overachieving residents may resent you for being on the same level as them in spite of your humble training.

These residents may have entitlement issues, and feel that you are not entitled to the same residency as them because you come from a school of barbarians.

I agree with this statement. I'd say there are always going to be a-hole$ out there looking for someone to put down. By residency, they will be smart enough not to do it in your presence, but to say it doesn't happen would be a lie. I've certainly heard residents making out of earshot jokes about their peers.
(A lot of those premeds in pre-allo end up making it to residency, and some of them will be no wiser when they get there. I'd say pre-allo is actually a good barometer of the bias that exists out there, because those folks are still dumb enough to express it openly.)

But what do you care. You got to where you wanted to be, the same place those others got to. So you got the last laugh.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I agree with this statement. I'd say there are always going to be a-hole$ out there looking for someone to put down. By residency, they will be smart enough not to do it in your presence, but to say it doesn't happen would be a lie. I've certainly heard residents making out of earshot jokes about their peers.
(A lot of those premeds in pre-allo end up making it to residency, and some of them will be no wiser when they get there. I'd say pre-allo is actually a good barometer of the bias that exists out there, because those folks are still dumb enough to express it openly.)

But what do you care. You got to where you wanted to be, the same place those others got to. So you got the last laugh.

Agree. There are always going to be people who are snobs about their education - same ones who in med school brag about their "Ivy League" education and look down their noses at the rest of us mere mortals. But bottom line is, it doesn't really matter.

And as mentioned above, the people whose opinions I personally care about will evaluate me based on my knowledge, efficiency, and personality - not where I went to med school or undergrad.

 

[QofQuimica]

The reason I posed the question is that many posters in the pre allo forum seem to be totally preoccupied with med school prestige. If no one really cares where you went to school, this prestige mania seems a bit pointless.

Premeds tend to focus on the wrong things when they're choosing a med school. A lot of them are all hung up on USNWR rankings and what kind of didactics the school has for the first two years, which are arguably the least important two years of med school in terms of where you are when you take them. They also look at match lists, usually without any context to interpret them properly in terms of knowing how many of the med students got their first or second choices. I'm not knocking the premeds; I wasn't really thinking about things like where I'd be rotating or what kinds of resources are in place to help students get the residencies they want when I was applying either. But if I were going to apply to med school again, I'd definitely be less concerned about whether they have PBL versus lecture during the preclinical years, and more concerned about their ability to prepare me clinically and help me with residency placement. I ended up at a great school for those things, but in all honesty it was partly dumb luck.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Premeds tend to focus on the wrong things when they're choosing a med school. A lot of them are all hung up on USNWR rankings and what kind of didactics the school has for the first two years, which are arguably the least important two years of med school in terms of where you are when you take them. They also look at match lists, usually without any context to interpret them properly in terms of knowing how many of the med students got their first or second choices. I'm not knocking the premeds; I wasn't really thinking about things like where I'd be rotating or what kinds of resources are in place to help students get the residencies they want when I was applying either. But if I were going to apply to med school again, I'd definitely be less concerned about whether they have PBL versus lecture during the preclinical years, and more concerned about their ability to prepare me clinically and help me with residency placement. I ended up at a great school for those things, but in all honesty it was partly dumb luck.

You should keep in mind that usnews rankings, pbl vs. lecture, and other inane tidbits are precisely the sort of info that medical schools tell their applicants all about during interview days. As I look back on my interviews, not one school actually provided any pertinent information about what I'm actually concerned about as a medical student (albeit a preclinical one). The closest we ever got to hearing about clinical rotations was a quick walk through the hospital, which was preceded with the disclaimer "hospitals are all the same".

People generally judge based on the information given to them. To chalk it all up to "pre-med idiots" is to absolve admissions departments of any responsibility for the idiocracy that goes into decision-making.

 

[Law2Doc]

You should keep in mind that usnews rankings, pbl vs. lecture, and other inane tidbits are precisely the sort of info that medical schools tell their applicants all about during interview days. As I look back on my interviews, not one school actually provided any pertinent information about what I'm actually concerned about as a medical student (albeit a preclinical one). The closest we ever got to hearing about clinical rotations was a quick walk through the hospital, which was preceded with the disclaimer "hospitals are all the same".

People generally judge based on the information given to them. To chalk it all up to "pre-med idiots" is to absolve admissions departments of any responsibility for the idiocracy that goes into decision-making.

I agree with you that med schools are in part to blame about the skew of focus. But in all fairness most people in college aren't going to be focusing on what they will be doing in 3rd and 4th year, they are focused on what they will be doing next year. So schools basically know their audience and focus on what students can expect from day 1. I certainly know my eyes would gloss over if schools spent a lot of time talking about rotations and the residency process rather than what I could expect in first year. Because I (and most med students) was excited and nervous about starting med school, and not as focused on the end game. Rotations and residency applications are things you deal with years later. When starting med school you are worried about how you will fare there, maybe looking ahead to the boards, but certainly not further than that. Nor should you be. If the school has the usual rotations, says their graduates do well and are well prepared, that's really all you want to hear at that stage.

 

[Trifling Jester]

The PD etc will care during the application process. After that's over, however, your coworkers won't give a damn. Nobody cares where you went to med school as long as you carry your own weight.

-The Trifling Jester

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I am telling you though, at some institutions (my own included) that is unfortunately not the case. The culture here is equal parts New York and Ivy, and so probably a Perfect Storm of pretentiousness, but people really do stack each other up by pedigree. They can't fathom a world in which people don't put equal stock into the names of schools. They can't fathom why someone wouldn't have attended a top 10 medical school, or an Ivy college, or an exclusive prep school, or the right feeder preschool, unless they couldn't get in. And if you couldn't get in, that means you obviously aren't as good as the people who did get in.

Not justifying this in any way, but you will encounter prejudice at certain places. Let it roll off your back like water. It does come up, throughout residency-- I've seen uncomfortable jokes made about the training background of even senior/chief residents.

 

[QofQuimica]

People generally judge based on the information given to them. To chalk it all up to "pre-med idiots" is to absolve admissions departments of any responsibility for the idiocracy that goes into decision-making.

My point was that premeds focus on the wrong things because they don't have enough experience with how med school and residency work to know any better, not that premeds are idiots. L2D is probably right though that even if med schools provided premeds with clinical training info, most of their eyes would glaze right over. It's kind of like how they struggle to stay alert during the financial aid session when they have yet to begin thinking about how they will finance med school.

 

[rkaz]

Premeds tend to focus on the wrong things when they're choosing a med school. A lot of them are all hung up on USNWR rankings and what kind of didactics the school has for the first two years, which are arguably the least important two years of med school in terms of where you are when you take them. They also look at match lists, usually without any context to interpret them properly in terms of knowing how many of the med students got their first or second choices. I'm not knocking the premeds; I wasn't really thinking about things like where I'd be rotating or what kinds of resources are in place to help students get the residencies they want when I was applying either. But if I were going to apply to med school again, I'd definitely be less concerned about whether they have PBL versus lecture during the preclinical years, and more concerned about their ability to prepare me clinically and help me with residency placement. I ended up at a great school for those things, but in all honesty it was partly dumb luck.

QofQ, Turkeyjerky, and Law2doc - would you guys mind sharing what factors are important for a current med school applicant to look for in a school? I currently have 4 upcoming interviews scheduled at AZCOM, ATSU-Mesa, DMU, and NSU (and am also hoping to get interviews at PCOM and Western). As a current applicant, I would be most grateful if you could share what factors are important to look for in school clinicals. It would be nice to know if there are certain questions I should be asking the school during interviews.

I don't want to detract from the OP's thread further, but if you would like to share your insights on my other thread in the pre-osteo forum, I'd really appreciate it. In this thread, I was specifically asking about the 3rd/4th year rotations. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=590829

 

[IndyXRT]

I am telling you though, at some institutions (my own included) that is unfortunately not the case. The culture here is equal parts New York and Ivy, and so probably a Perfect Storm of pretentiousness, but people really do stack each other up by pedigree. They can't fathom a world in which people don't put equal stock into the names of schools. They can't fathom why someone wouldn't have attended a top 10 medical school, or an Ivy college, or an exclusive prep school, or the right feeder preschool, unless they couldn't get in. And if you couldn't get in, that means you obviously aren't as good as the people who did get in.

That's unfortunate. At my institution, nobody really cares. However, we're in the midwest, and I tend to think pedigree doesn't really matter much in general in this area.

 

[gutonc]

That's unfortunate. At my institution, nobody really cares. However, we're in the midwest, and I tend to think pedigree doesn't really matter much in general in this area.

Well, she is at one of the 3 (arguably) snootiest med schools in the country (HMS and JHU being the others). I was honestly so turned off interviewing there for med school (even the administrative staff thought their shizzle didn't stink because they were at Columbia) that I didn't even bother to apply there for residency or fellowship. Great training to be sure...totally not my bag.

 

[MediumDef]

I am telling you though, at some institutions (my own included) that is unfortunately not the case. The culture here is equal parts New York and Ivy, and so probably a Perfect Storm of pretentiousness, but people really do stack each other up by pedigree. They can't fathom a world in which people don't put equal stock into the names of schools. They can't fathom why someone wouldn't have attended a top 10 medical school, or an Ivy college, or an exclusive prep school, or the right feeder preschool, unless they couldn't get in. And if you couldn't get in, that means you obviously aren't as good as the people who did get in.

Not justifying this in any way, but you will encounter prejudice at certain places. Let it roll off your back like water. It does come up, throughout residency-- I've seen uncomfortable jokes made about the training background of even senior/chief residents.

Oddly I tend to find the opposite to be true, that people tend to relish the opportunity to co-exist as peers with people who did not follow the same A to B to C path. If nothing else it at least implies you worked through a meritocracy and you didn't just use your pedigree to grease the wheels.

 

[jiy76]

It must be brutal when a student from a lesser known med school makes it into one of the programs blondedoctor describes. I cant imagine working as hard as residents do with a bunch of stuck up d****bags. It would make the experience all the more miserable.

 

[Long Dong]

I am telling you though, at some institutions (my own included) that is unfortunately not the case. The culture here is equal parts New York and Ivy, and so probably a Perfect Storm of pretentiousness, but people really do stack each other up by pedigree. They can't fathom a world in which people don't put equal stock into the names of schools. They can't fathom why someone wouldn't have attended a top 10 medical school, or an Ivy college, or an exclusive prep school, or the right feeder preschool, unless they couldn't get in. And if you couldn't get in, that means you obviously aren't as good as the people who did get in.

Not justifying this in any way, but you will encounter prejudice at certain places. Let it roll off your back like water. It does come up, throughout residency-- I've seen uncomfortable jokes made about the training background of even senior/chief residents.

Yeah I can vouche for that, when I was growing up my father trained in GS at Columbia and he'd used to tell me stories about how much pedigree meant to some that he trained with. He'd tell me about how some of his juniors would make jokes about him being a FMG even though he was their chief. He'd even tell me stuff like this happend at his plasitcs and hand fellowship at Cornell. I totally agree with you it's a NYC/IVY thing making for a perfect storm for people to think their shiznats don't stink. But my pops would tell me he'd just smile be humble and earn their respect with his hard work and surgical skills, cause he was a trauma surgeon for 10 years during the vietnam war before having to retrain when coming to the U.S. There is this saying "real gangstas don't need to flex." Cuz they already gansta their work speaks for itself, those talking all that mess just aren't that secure about their own skillz. Those stuck on their own pedigree and those of others just aren't real (medical/academic) gangstas.

(even the administrative staff thought their shizzle didn't stink because they were at Columbia)

It's not like they are the big Hs (harvard or hopkins).

 

[sirus_virus]

Yeah I can vouche for that, when I was growing up my father trained in GS at Columbia and he'd used to tell me stories about how much pedigree meant to some that he trained with. He'd tell me about how some of his juniors would make jokes about him being a FMG even though he was their chief. He'd even tell me stuff like this happend at his plasitcs and hand fellowship at Cornell. I totally agree with you it's a NYC/IVY thing making for a perfect storm for people to think their shiznats don't stink. But my pops would tell me he'd just smile be humble and earn their respect with his hard work and surgical skills, cause he was a trauma surgeon for 10 years during the vietnam war before having to retrain when coming to the U.S. There is this saying "real gangstas don't need to flex." Cuz they already gansta their work speaks for itself, those talking all that mess just aren't that secure about their own skillz. Those stuck on their own pedigree and those of others just aren't real (medical/academic) gangstas.





It's not like they are the big Hs (harvard or hopkins).

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

L2D is probably right though that even if med schools provided premeds with clinical training info, most of their eyes would glaze right over. It's kind of like how they struggle to stay alert during the financial aid session when they have yet to begin thinking about how they will finance med school.

Our school tries to give some info on the clinical years - they have a short PPT and a 3rd/4th year comes and talks about it and answers questions. Usually the interviewees ask the 4th year questions about the anatomy lab and how many students per cadaver. They just aren't ready to think about the clinical years. Whenever I visit with applicants I try to talk up the importance of 3rd/4th year, but only rarely does it seem to make a dent.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

The only reason pedigree matters to me is for marketing reasons -- so one day I can advertise on my fancy-smansy website "Harvard/Hopkins trained."

So yes, I'm shooting for bigtime places when it comes time for fellowship..

 

[QofQuimica]

Our school tries to give some info on the clinical years - they have a short PPT and a 3rd/4th year comes and talks about it and answers questions. Usually the interviewees ask the 4th year questions about the anatomy lab and how many students per cadaver. They just aren't ready to think about the clinical years. Whenever I visit with applicants I try to talk up the importance of 3rd/4th year, but only rarely does it seem to make a dent.

I know. It's the same way at my school. I stop by the lunch for the interviewing students when I have a little time, and try to point out the importance of clinical training/residency placement assistance. Sometimes it reaches them, sometimes it doesn't. The applicants really don't get anything close to a complete picture when they only meet preclinical students, but unfortunately most MS3/4s are much busier than MS1/2s, and the sample is highly skewed. In a few years though, these applicants will be the ones posting in this thread to the kids who are currently freshmen in college.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I am telling you though, at some institutions (my own included) that is unfortunately not the case. The culture here is equal parts New York and Ivy, and so probably a Perfect Storm of pretentiousness, but people really do stack each other up by pedigree. They can't fathom a world in which people don't put equal stock into the names of schools. They can't fathom why someone wouldn't have attended a top 10 medical school, or an Ivy college, or an exclusive prep school, or the right feeder preschool, unless they couldn't get in. And if you couldn't get in, that means you obviously aren't as good as the people who did get in.

Not justifying this in any way, but you will encounter prejudice at certain places. Let it roll off your back like water. It does come up, throughout residency-- I've seen uncomfortable jokes made about the training background of even senior/chief residents.

I agree that it sounds like the perfect storm situation. I am from a small, primary care oriented medical school in the south and am in ENT at an Ivy program. No one in the entire hospital seems to care where I am from. I do my part and work hard and the rest takes care of itself. Having spoken to my staff after our interview days this year we don't tend to care much where people are from. If you have good board scores, seem like you'd fit in this area, and people speak well of your work ethic and likeability in their letters, then that's good enough for us. I think a lot of the need to measure yourself against one another ends after medical school. I work with some REALLY smart people and other people who aren't as naturally gifted but work hard. Either one IMHO makes a fine physician.

 

[Long Dong]

The only reason pedigree matters to me is for marketing reasons -- so one day I can advertise on my fancy-smansy website "Harvard/Hopkins trained."

So yes, I'm shooting for bigtime places when it comes time for fellowship..

Yeah like this guy he is always dropping the H-bomb as the place he did his fellowship.

His marketing is doing really well cause people who go to him don't even care he isn't BC.

 

[Acherona]

I agree that it sounds like the perfect storm situation. I am from a small, primary care oriented medical school in the south and am in ENT at an Ivy program.

The Ivy League was formed as an undergraduate sports association. It has absolutely nothing to do with medical training yet ppl on sdn seem wedded to this terminology.

The type of people who feel their lives are over if they don't go to a top school are obviously the ones for whom prestige is of paramount importance and who will continue to value it. A lot of these people have never trained at lower ranked institutions, which just reinforces the belief that everywhere else people are incompetent. For med school it gets a little silly since many people go to their state school for tuition issues.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Yeah like this guy he is always dropping the H-bomb as the place he did his fellowship.

His marketing is doing really well cause people who go to him don't even care he isn't BC.

Yup! haha. Minus the douchebag factor.

LD, I'm not saying pedigree is everything but from a marketing standpoint (esp in a competitive surgical environment), it will definitely give you a leg up -- even if it's just your fellowship training.

Part of Dr. Rays appeal and wow-factor is that he's "Haavard trained." He's still a tool but he definitely knows how to market himself.

Let's face it, Joe Public loves labels. It's just how it works son...

 

[drychicken]

doesn't matter at all.

in med school, many of the most successful students came from no-name podunk state colleges, and many of the med students from yale, harvard, stanford, etc. were mediocre or even terrible.

same as with residency- i've known harvard med school grads who are terrible, and grads from caribbeans schools, etc, who are amazing.

 

[elr1983]

Interesting people should say that about Columbia.....would you say that's the case with Columbia's children's hospital as well? I'm applying in peds and interviewed there recently and really liked it. Their program director trained at Children's National in DC, which is well respected, I think, but not "elite." The department chair also didn't train at a big place...somewhere in the mid west I think.

 

[BabyKangaroo]

Go back to what it means to be a doctor, all of those characteristics that make a great doctor that most everyone agrees on. Who cares what other residents think. The patients are the deciding factor eventually anyways, and only the patient's opinion on who a good doctor is really matters. It may be harder to convince a "first-timer" to adopt you as their physician if they are only concerned with what Grey's Anatomy, ER, or Hopkins labels "good" doctors as, but eventually truth trumps all. "The proof is in the pudding." If someone is a good doctor, that's it. End of discussion.

 

[Doctor Grim]

Does the reputation of one's medical school matter in promotion within academia? For example, someone from a lower tier medical school or carib school trying to get promoted in an Ivy Leaguer? Do they get looked down upon by their colleagues? Of course they've completeted their training and board certified.

 

[dragonfly99]

drgrim
it doesn't matter much.
I went to one of those famous medical schools and very occasionally someone will remark about it in an interview, but it's only looked at in the context of whatever else you have done. I would say for academia where you do residency and fellowship definitely matters more. As far as patients go, most are clueless, except that they have heard of Harvard, Mayo and Cleveland Clinic...LOL!

 

[docrocmayo]

If someone from a lower tier medical school matches into a highly prestigious residency (this does happen), will that resident generally be looked down upon by his/her peers? Are there often subtle reminders that the resident did not go to Hopkins? Does anybody really care?

not really.. we do take a few IMGs every year at Mayo and they are AMONG THE BEST residents at Mayo.. they come from outside US schools, some not as well known as others, but most of them are just amazing..

most of our strong AMG residents at Mayo have been from smaller state schools. So I dont think lineage is a concern at Mayo, that I know of..

 

[BobA]

I'll say that maybe nobody cares where you went to med school - but if you go to a "prestigous" med school you may have more opportunities for advancement than people who went to other schools. . . For example, the president of the national association of whatever medical field may be writing your letter of rec rather than dr. billy bob. . . this doesn't matter too much but it might add a few points to your step 1 score. . . . my school considers itself prestigious (not sure if other people do!) and likes to show data that just coming from our school is like having 10 extra points on step 1 when it comes to matching.

 

[jsimny]

I would have to agree.. that was the major reason that i was completely turned off while doing elective at columbia. All other NY programs don't have that atmosphere..

Well, she is at one of the 3 (arguably) snootiest med schools in the country (HMS and JHU being the others). I was honestly so turned off interviewing there for med school (even the administrative staff thought their shizzle didn't stink because they were at Columbia) that I didn't even bother to apply there for residency or fellowship. Great training to be sure...totally not my bag.

 

[yaah]

While there are some people who care (oftentimes they themselves are graduates of the same med schools, so they have an inherent bias), the majority do not. In fact, the bias can interestingly go the other way. I went to med school at a state school that had a large famous private institution also in the same state. I did a rotation at an institution where students from that institution as well as mine occasionally rotated, and I had several attendings tell me, unprompted, that they were generally disappointed at famous institution's students (for being unprepared, a bit arrogant or cocky, or seeming disinterested in what they were actually doing there). And for residency selection, it actually made them be more critical of their application.

I think the point is that you have to make your own impact and reputation. If you are relying on your school to be the high point of your application, you are going to be having an uphill climb. You should be the one who reflects highly on your educational institution, NOT the other way around.

 

[jennyboo]

If someone from a lower tier medical school matches into a highly prestigious residency (this does happen), will that resident generally be looked down upon by his/her peers? Are there often subtle reminders that the resident did not go to Hopkins? Does anybody really care?

No, at our place (an "H" hospital) the resident is treated the same, and our "H" medical students are actually less experienced and less confident than the medical students visiting us from the less-esteemed school across town. We all know the reality -- prestigious does not equal practical, and in the real world people who are totally "into themselves" and self-absorbed about their pedigree are not well liked. Those of us who come from pedigree education backgrounds are not better to work with.

If you are deciding between mid-tier vs top 5 and the cost is the same, then go with top 5 (however, once you get down to like 10+ I consider it mid-tier). If you are deciding between upper mid tier and lower mid tier and the cost is the same, then go with whatever you want -- it makes no difference. If you are deciding between top 5 at cost and mid-tier for free, go with the free education.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

This is the only time I've bumped a relatively old thread. I just wanted to get some additional input.

Thanks

 

[DrJosephKim]

When you're interacting with other residents, fellows, and attendings, most of them won't know (or really care about) where you went to med school or college. They will judge you based on your competency, attitude, enthusiasm, professionalism, etc.

Now, when it comes time to apply for a fellowship, then med school, college, step scores will matter. However, your letters will matter even more.

 

[rkaz]

.

 

[IndyXRT]

Whoa... wait a sec! Do college and/or grad school grades come into play when one is applying for residency and fellowship? I thought they only looked at medical school grades...? PLEASE tell me this is not the case! This just makes me uncomfortable. Although my stats are acceptable, I've had a few blips in my academic record previously; however, now that I am starting medical school shortly I want a fresh slate and not have to worry about the past stuff coming back to haunt me. Do residency and fellowship programs really look at applicants' college and graduate coursework?

I can't speak for anyone else, but the program I'm affiliated with (radiation oncology residency) does not.

 

[JHopRevisit]

In my experience, it matters very little in the clinical world. We may be vaguely aware where someone trained (and it usually more who you trained with than the actual institution), but when faced with the day to day realities of clinical care, you can tell who the strong and weak clinicians are. There's just not much time to sit on your laurels, you have to perform every day you're in the hospital and if you don't it doesn't matter where you went to school.

The more academic you get, however, the more "prestige" comes into play. Getting grants, promotions to tenure, acceptances to prestigious journals: pedigree matters a lot more here. Patients are the great equalizer; the further you get away from real life, the more people rely on crap like your credentials, because they have no other choice. And I say this as someone who intends the spend the majority of his career in the research world.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Whoa... wait a sec! Do college and/or grad school grades come into play when one is applying for residency and fellowship? I thought they only looked at medical school grades...? PLEASE tell me this is not the case! This just makes me uncomfortable. Although my stats are acceptable, I've had a few blips in my academic record previously; however, now that I am starting medical school shortly I want a fresh slate and not have to worry about the past stuff coming back to haunt me. Do residency and fellowship programs really look at applicants' college and graduate coursework?

A couple of plastics programs did, but for the vast majority of residencies, your undergrad/grad school performance is not requested or looked at. Same for fellowships.

For fellowships, LORs are probably most important with some specialities looking at in-training exam scores. Your performance in residency is what matters.

 

[yowhatup]

A couple of plastics programs did, but for the vast majority of residencies, your undergrad/grad school performance is not requested or looked at. Same for fellowships.

For fellowships, LORs are probably most important with some specialities looking at in-training exam scores. Your performance in residency is what matters.

Fellowships such as cardio, onc, and GI do not look at USMLE scores???? I thought the more prestigious the IM program, the higher the chance of matching into one of these fellowships.... and matching into a prestigious IM program is heavily correlated with USMLE score.... and so when fellowship directors look at an applicant from a relatively unknown IM program, I believe they automatically assume low USMLE score, and there is all ready an automatic bias towards the applicant.....

also what to do surgery fellowships such as cardio-thoracic, plastics, and vascular look for in a gen surgery resident? USMLE score?