Graduating without Work Experience/Hours

[Scallops]

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Hello, I've got a couple questions. I have a small amount of pharmacy work experience BUT have not worked as a pharmacy intern at all other than my school rotations and I know in my state I need 1000 hours working as an intern (cant be from school) to sit for the boards.

Is the 1000 hours a nationwide requirement or do some states not require this? If I stayed, would I have to work as an intern, pass boards, then get rehired as a pharmacist after I sit/pass? Do companies have a procedure (maybe training period as intern) for a new graduate who lacks the work experience + hours? As you can tell I am a bit confused.

 

[J ROD]

Wow!! 🙄

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

You're confused because you wasted your pharmacy school years by not working like you should. Good Luck! 👍

 

[PharMed2016]

Hello, I've got a couple questions. I have a small amount of pharmacy work experience BUT have not worked as a pharmacy intern at all other than my school rotations and I know in my state I need 1000 hours working as an intern (cant be from school) to sit for the boards.

Is the 1000 hours a nationwide requirement or do some states not require this? If I stayed, would I have to work as an intern, pass boards, then get rehired as a pharmacist after I sit/pass? Do companies have a procedure (maybe training period as intern) for a new graduate who lacks the work experience + hours? As you can tell I am a bit confused.

I'll handle this J DUB, lol. There are states which do not require you to have any intern hours outside those from your school program. In other words, if you have a PharmD... you can take the boards and become licensed as a pharmacist. Also, companies do have a training period I guess while you wait to pass your boards... its called Grad Intern.

 

[hornblower]

Why wasted? He focused his time studying.

 

[J ROD]

I'll handle this J DUB, lol..

Thank you!!! 🙂

 

[J ROD]

Why wasted? He focused his time studying.

You need the hrs to get a job. You go to school and study to get said job.

Even the slackest in my class have the hrs.....🙄

It is not that hard to work and get the hrs....if it is, then you need to not be there!

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Why wasted? He focused his time studying.

School teaches the knowledge base required by a pharmacist. Work teaches how to work as a pharmacist.

Work experience is just as important as school if not more. I would never hire a pharmacist who didn't intern anywhere. It says a lot about their priorities... unless the student had visa issues and couldn't work or something..

 

[hornblower]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

This is healthcare not accounting or math. You don't know enough about the system to have an accurate sense of good or bad.

 

[gsinccom]

The state I live in requires 600 paid intern hours but from my research
there are more states that let you use all your school hours than those that require paid hours.

 

[gsinccom]

I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours?)

I had a classmate that did

 

[Old Timer]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

You are either very very very very stupid or very very very very inexperienced. You think you learn enough in school to go into a pharmacy and practice? You'll kill 12 people during your first shift hospital or retail. The work requirement should be doubled.

If the flunk out because they cant handle work & school it's ok they cant handle a pharmacy either.

 

[will7678]

I could be way off base since I am not even an accepted pharm student yet but it seems to me like anyone with any motivation at all could get 1000 hours easily. Even if you just interned for 20 hours a week over each of the three summers during school you would pretty much have all the hours you need.

 

[litetigre]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

just wow.

 

[Scallops]

I could be way off base since I am not even an accepted pharm student yet but it seems to me like anyone with any motivation at all could get 1000 hours easily. Even if you just interned for 20 hours a week over each of the three summers during school you would pretty much have all the hours you need.

You aren't. I just go year round and didnt get the hours in. If I had summers off I probably would have landed something. I guess I can just find a state without those reqs or be a Grad Intern for a while.

Thanks for the info other ppl.

 

[psychoandy]

Hearing that the OP went thru an accelerated program makes it look less stupid. No offense. Perhaps you could consult with the school re: job options, b/c you probably weren't the only person to not have time to do a traditional internship and there must be some resources. Unless your school is a diploma mill or something.

Trying not to pile on, but...

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

For most schools (i can't even graduate without hours), you have 4 years + time between graduation and NAPLEX pass/getting hired to work in a pharmacy and gain real experience. That also includes 3 whole summers. Even if it wasn't a requirement for passing boards, not working puts you at a huge disadvantage to the normal PharmD candidate who was probably a tech earlier and has been gaining hospital/retail experience before and in school.

No one here said you had to work during school, just that you should have work experience. I don't even see how you could even enter a career without working/interning in it as you progress. And the IPPE experiences run by schools where they ***** you out to do scutwork are a laughable excuse for intern experience, so those don't count.

 

[rivatnt]

.

 

[Sparda29]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

As da Fuhrer, I'd have you executed. (In a German Accent)

The intern hour requirement is already low enough, there should also be a requirement of 1000 hours working in a pharmacy as a clerk or tech, PRIOR to starting pharmacy school and then 2000 hours during pharmacy school.

2000 hours during pharmacy school. (Calculation to show that it is not impossible.)

Pharmacy school is 4 years. 2000/4 = 500 Intern Hours/Year of Pharmacy School

500/52 = 9.6 Intern hours a week/ Year of Pharmacy school

 

[Farmtastic]

School teaches the knowledge base required by a pharmacist. Work teaches how to work as a pharmacist.

Work experience is just as important as school if not more. I would never hire a pharmacist who didn't intern anywhere. It says a lot about their priorities... unless the student had visa issues and couldn't work or something..

Do you know of any ways to circumvent this problem? i.e. the visa issues?

Thanks.

 

[Ackj]

Pharmacy school is 4 years. 2000/4 = 500 Intern Hours/Year of Pharmacy School

500/52 = 9.6 Intern hours a week/ Year of Pharmacy school

At least in NY, you're not an intern until you complete your P1 year, so that shifts the calculations a bit and makes it about 13 hours a week... still reasonable though.

 

[Quiksilver]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

you sir are whats wrong with pharmacy students, even though you aren't one. Do you expect to get into a program with no experience whatsoever, and if you did (probably because you have a 4.0) how can you pick a profession you know nothing about? Schools favor students with experience. Sometimes its not what you know, its who you know. remember that.

 

[hornblower]

you sir are whats wrong with pharmacy students, even though you aren't one. Do you expect to get into a program with no experience whatsoever, and if you did (probably because you have a 4.0) how can you pick a profession you know nothing about? Schools favor students with experience. Sometimes its not what you know, its who you know. remember that.

That is exactly why America is going down the tubes.

As President, I would demand that schools choose students purely based on ability. I would require ADCOMs blind applications for race, age and gender. I wouldn't even allow them to see the applicants name. Only two factors should matter, GPA and PCAT, with the latter weighted heavier.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

That is exactly why America is going down the tubes.

As President, I would demand that schools choose students purely based on ability.

Yeah right..because rest the world operate differently...


[/note sarcasm]

Stop feeding this troll...

 

[litetigre]

That is exactly why America is going down the tubes.

As President, I would demand that schools choose students purely based on ability. I would require ADCOMs blind applications for race, age and gender. I wouldn't even allow them to see the applicants name. Only two factors should matter, GPA and PCAT, with the latter weighted heavier.

so let me get this straight... You want to admit people who have no compassion and people skills to health care profession...that sounds like law school and business school to me...great now we are producing more blood sucking creatures...I don't think health care will go down the tube. It will be the tube.

 

[Sparda29]

That is exactly why America is going down the tubes.

As President, I would demand that schools choose students purely based on ability. I would require ADCOMs blind applications for race, age and gender. I wouldn't even allow them to see the applicants name. Only two factors should matter, GPA and PCAT, with the latter weighted heavier.

Nope.

Work Experience > Interview Ability > References > Personal Essay > GPA > PCAT > Extracurricular Activities

That's how it should be for pharmacy school admissions. There are too many douchebags with 4.0 GPAs and 99 PCATs, that have never worked an hour in their life, don't have any references, and have a ****ty personal essay that are getting in over people who do have experience, are very sociable people, but have a lower GPA.

 

[hornblower]

Pharmacy is a profession that demands above average intellect as a pre-requisite to hard work.

A low GPA/PCAT is what it is.

 

[Sparda29]

Pharmacy is a profession that demands above average intellect as a pre-requisite to hard work.

A low GPA/PCAT is what it is.

Bull****.

 

[Silvermist]

I have a question - in general, how much intern/work time is considered "sufficient?" I am a married, older student with two very young children, and I will be starting at UMD in the fall. I am not sure how rigorous pharmacy school will be for me (although eek^3 @ pchem) -- and while I am super happy about having this opportunity to go, I definitely don't want to be away from my little kids more than necessary. Is it sufficient to volunteer or intern for a few hours a week and/or to work summers? Or is it really necessary to work, say 10 hours a week as an intern at CVS? I am afraid that would be way too aggressive given my life circumstances.

Thanks in advance!

 

[confettiflyer]

wtf is the point of the work experience/intern hour requirement (outside of school) when they've effectively written it into the curriculum as P-4/APPE's? it's a holdover rule from the old BPharm days which are long gone.

there are a handful of states that don't require outside hours that the OP can apply for a license in without hassle... IL, NJ are two of them.

I think states will eventually rewrite their laws to allow P-4/APPE's to cover the work experience requirement. I believe CA did that (changing the wording such that 900hrs of work experience on top of your 1500 in school hours was no longer required--double check me on that).

It's annoying, I'll have 1700+hrs of non-classroom, direct pharmacy experience (inpatient, outpatient via IPPE/APPE) when I graduate, and in some states, that's not enough. Freakin. Annoying. Update your damn laws.

 

[confettiflyer]

As da Fuhrer, I'd have you executed. (In a German Accent)

The intern hour requirement is already low enough, there should also be a requirement of 1000 hours working in a pharmacy as a clerk or tech, PRIOR to starting pharmacy school and then 2000 hours during pharmacy school.

2000 hours during pharmacy school. (Calculation to show that it is not impossible.)

Pharmacy school is 4 years. 2000/4 = 500 Intern Hours/Year of Pharmacy School

500/52 = 9.6 Intern hours a week/ Year of Pharmacy school

Disagree... I think you're putting too much weight on work experience as a clerk/tech in a pharmacy. I learned how to get yelled at and put pills into bottles as a tech in the outpatient setting--which, arguably, the majority of the experience is going to come from if this rule were in effect.

As for the 2k requirement in school.... I get 1700 hours already, think that's enough? you want me to do work more for crap pay or free? screw you.

I'm going to somewhat side with hornblower on this in that you DO need to be able to handle the scientific rigor of pharmacy school in order to survive.

You can be coached for interviews, you can pad a resume with useless experience that only looks good on paper, and you can write your way out of a paper bag....but ultimately, our ability to ingest/process large amounts of information in a science-based curriculum is what is going to get you through school.

Don't get it twisted, the real world is totally different...but for the make-believe world of academica, that's what you need.

 

[Old Timer]

wtf is the point of the work experience/intern hour requirement (outside of school) when they've effectively written it into the curriculum as P-4/APPE's? it's a holdover rule from the old BPharm days which are long gone.

there are a handful of states that don't require outside hours that the OP can apply for a license in without hassle... IL, NJ are two of them.

I think states will eventually rewrite their laws to allow P-4/APPE's to cover the work experience requirement. I believe CA did that (changing the wording such that 900hrs of work experience on top of your 1500 in school hours was no longer required--double check me on that).

It's annoying, I'll have 1700+hrs of non-classroom, direct pharmacy experience (inpatient, outpatient via IPPE/APPE) when I graduate, and in some states, that's not enough. Freakin. Annoying. Update your damn laws.

The reason there is a requirement for IPPE hours is because of *****s like Hornblower. There have been students have gone into their rotations in their senior year with never having set foot in a pharmacy. They have been unable to function because they are unable to communicate with patients, colleagues or physicians. Because of this trend the accreditation bodies decided if you weren't smart enough to work for a salary, you might as well work for free.

As to the troll. You confuse knowledge with wisdom. If you think there is a correlation between GPA and performance as a pharmacist you need to immediately submit your urine sample for your next random drug test. There is none and there never has been one. Please choose another profession because you're already an embarrassment to this one and you haven't joined yet.

 

[confettiflyer]

The reason there is a requirement for IPPE hours is because of *****s like Hornblower. There have been students have gone into their rotations in their senior year with never having set foot in a pharmacy. They have been unable to function because they are unable to communicate with patients, colleagues or physicians.

Agreed. Though I think schools should have weeded communicating underperformers out in the admissions process....but like I said, interviews can be coached, communicating on-the-fly (more indicative of someone's skill) can't be effectively measured.

They throw us into rooms (blind to the clinical situation) with eye-in-the-sky video cameras and patient actors our first year...if that doesn't put a little hair on your ass the first time, I don't know what does.

 

[Old Timer]

Agreed. Though I think schools should have weeded communicating underperformers out in the admissions process....but like I said, interviews can be coached, communicating on-the-fly (more indicative of someone's skill) can't be effectively measured.

They throw us into rooms (blind to the clinical situation) with eye-in-the-sky video cameras and patient actors our first year...if that doesn't put a little hair on your ass the first time, I don't know what does.

It's not because they can't communicate, it's because they have never done it. The IPPE is simply because they have refused to work.

 

[Sparda29]

It's not because they can't communicate, it's because they have never done it. The IPPE is simply because they have refused to work.

The thing with IPPEs, is that they should be during the school year. Not 2/4 of your vacation months. I'd like to have January, June-August, to just chill, play paintball, snowboard, travel, etc.

And, the people who did work prior to entering pharmacy school, should not have to do the IPPEs, which are basically the same exact thing as tech work, except with some presentations, papers, etc.

 

[Carboxide]

The thing with IPPEs, is that they should be during the school year. Not 2/4 of your vacation months. I'd like to have January, June-August, to just chill, play paintball, snowboard, travel, etc.

And, the people who did work prior to entering pharmacy school, should not have to do the IPPEs, which are basically the same exact thing as tech work, except with some presentations, papers, etc.

Realistically, though, MOST people need to work regardless in the summer to save up money for school. I'm looking forward to becoming an intern because I know I'll be making over minimum wage and I won't be clearing dishes I would work in the summer anyways, so I like that I can get experience while I'm at it to become a better pharmacist in the end.

If you don't need to work, you're in the minimum. And since you've said (I believe) that you're coming out with over 300k in loans, maybe you SHOULD be working.

 

[confettiflyer]

And, the people who did work prior to entering pharmacy school, should not have to do the IPPEs, which are basically the same exact thing as tech work, except with some presentations, papers, etc.

disagree again! i'm on a roll...what work experience would count? i worked retail, i think you did too...my IPPE sites have been inpatient, community, and anticoagulation, areas i would have only dreamed of in my time at cvs.

sucks your school didn't take the time to meld it into your curriculum...sounds like you just have to bang it out over the summer

 

[Sparda29]

disagree again! i'm on a roll...what work experience would count? i worked retail, i think you did too...my IPPE sites have been inpatient, community, and anticoagulation, areas i would have only dreamed of in my time at cvs.

sucks your school didn't take the time to meld it into your curriculum...sounds like you just have to bang it out over the summer

I've only had the community and public health sites so far for IPPE. (I don't think I needed to do the community site since it was redundant with my experience at CVS, and the public health site that I ended up with was some really boring thing, I was hoping to get either the American Heart Association or Ralph Lauren Center for my Public Health Rotation.

Actually looking forward for my hospital rotation in January. I'm hoping to get Montefiore Medical Center site. And in either June, July, August, I'm hoping to get the IPPE site at the prison (I think its going to be Rikers Island).

 

[confettiflyer]

I've only had the community and public health sites so far for IPPE. (I don't think I needed to do the community site since it was redundant with my experience at CVS, and the public health site that I ended up with was some really boring thing, I was hoping to get either the American Heart Association or Ralph Lauren Center for my Public Health Rotation.

Actually looking forward for my hospital rotation in January. I'm hoping to get Montefiore Medical Center site. And in either June, July, August, I'm hoping to get the IPPE site at the prison (I think its going to be Rikers Island).

I wish I got to "waive out" of community since it was P-1 year and redundant with what I learned as a tech...but imagine the nightmare of having a variable # of students waive out each semester and finding them some other alternate site & coordinating that WITH their curriculum. It was hard enough getting our P-2 schedule lined up with inpatient sites, which were decidedly less flexible than community/public health type sites.

In your case though, if it's just done over the summer, that'd be easier to handle.

 

[Sparda29]

I wish I got to "waive out" of community since it was P-1 year and redundant with what I learned as a tech...but imagine the nightmare of having a variable # of students waive out each semester and finding them some other alternate site & coordinating that WITH their curriculum. It was hard enough getting our P-2 schedule lined up with inpatient sites, which were decidedly less flexible than community/public health type sites.

In your case though, if it's just done over the summer, that'd be easier to handle.

Yeah, we have this online system where you go and pick your top 20 preferences and then it goes through it tries to be as fair as possible. I lucked out in my community choice since I got this independent pharmacy that specialized in HIV patients, but I got a sucky Public Health rotation that dealt with domestic abuse/violence.

 

[pharmwannebe2]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

Dumbest thing I have ever heard. If a student can't focus on their studies and work at the same time they shouldn't be a pharmacist. Pharmacists are all about time management when working. And not many students flunk out cause of intern hours (hopefully or they are really dumb). Summer break exists and you can volunteer at a pharmacy for a few hours if needed.

Honestly, school is one factor of pharmacy but the practical side of pharmacy is also needed. School doesn't teach me insurance and billing or how to deal with customers in retail pharmacy. School also doesn't teach me proper aseptic technique and how to make a proper IV/admixture in hospital pharmacy. Also working at a pharmacy while in school helps you get more acquainted with drugs. I look at Clinical Pharmacology and the drugs in the pharmacy when I have time.

 

[mug3n]

Agreed. Though I think schools should have weeded communicating underperformers out in the admissions process....but like I said, interviews can be coached, communicating on-the-fly (more indicative of someone's skill) can't be effectively measured.

They throw us into rooms (blind to the clinical situation) with eye-in-the-sky video cameras and patient actors our first year...if that doesn't put a little hair on your ass the first time, I don't know what does.

Our school is implementing what's called multiple mini interviews for the next admission cycle which is probably less subject to the degree of coaching that traditional interviews might have.

Basically I think we have about 8 stations set up for each candidate and various faculty, current students and working pharmacists at each station responsible for a certain aspect of the interview that not only test the typical interview skills but the ability to think on the spot, so in some stations you'd be given some scenario, and the interviewer acts out a role in that problem that you have to defuse.

Wow, I'd be pissing in my pants if I had to go through that first year. I'm already getting nervous for my first simulated patient counselling assessment but it's nowhere near what you described :/.

 

[IrishHammer]

At least in NY, you're not an intern until you complete your P1 year, so that shifts the calculations a bit and makes it about 13 hours a week... still reasonable though.

So work weekends. Even for the "gotta study all the time" type student, 13 hours every weekend is not that much. Plus, if you're in a traditional program, you still have two whole summers, less four weeks for an IPPE, to knock out your intern hours.

 

[gsinccom]

Plus, if you're in a traditional program

It is harder to balance all this if you are in a 3 year program (typically in class later each day during the school year and only one short summer break after the 1st year and none after the 2nd year) vs. a 4 year program. I know many students who work 20 hours a week in a 4 year program while those in a 3 year program find it hard just to work 10 hours a week.

wtf is the point of the work experience/intern hour requirement (outside of school) when they've effectively written it into the curriculum as P-4/APPE's? it's a holdover rule from the old BPharm days which are long gone.

Update your damn laws.

I agree with this. If I'm correct California doesn't require any "paid" intern hours and they are the ones that have had the PharmD requirement long before it became nationally required circa 2002.

 

[Maxpwer222]

I go to class, work 20-25 hrs a week, study, help my fiance plan our wedding, and drink too much. There are more than enough hours in a week as long as you have good time management skills.

I mean hell you could work 5 hours a week and gain invaluable experience. Why would you not do that?

 

[gsinccom]

If I'm correct California doesn't require any "paid" intern hours and they are the ones that have had the PharmD requirement long before it became nationally required circa 2002.

Let's do a poll. How many of the following states require paid intern hours for state licensure? Below are the ones I'm familiar with as well as some I'm curious about. Please correct if needed and add info if desired. Thanks
CA - No
NV - No
ID - No
WY -No
WI - No
FL - ?
NC - ?
MS - ?
WA - ?
OR - ?
MD - ?
VA - ?
IA - ?
NE - ?

 

[genesis09]

IL does not require any hours outside of class.
WI does not require any hours outside of class as long as you have 1500 intern hours through the school.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

VA - No

Virginia just changed the req'ments September 2009. You used to have to do a total of 1500 hours with 300 of those hours outside of rotations. However, now all 1500 can be included in rotations. It makes sense.

 

[PharMed2016]

As President, I would ban the requirement that Pharmacy students must work X number of hours to sit for the boards.

Students should be totally focused on their studies not work. I wonder how many flunk out trying to intern too many hours? Not a bad student, but a bad a system. (said in Japanese accent)

Part of being a professional student is being able to balance your schooling and work. I just started working at CVS and have manage thus far to do so without any adverse effects on my grades. While knowledge is important... so is experience to use that knowledge. (now I sound like yoda). Besides, your an adult now... deal with it. If there are not enough hours in the day to study and work... make those hours. 😀

As for the number of students flunking... I think the attrition is pretty low for professional programs in general. Certainly, less than most other non-professional programs.

In the end, the decision is yours. Don't tell me you can't work even a few hours a week and not pull good grades. I will call bull**** mister.

 

[PharMed2016]

Nope.

Work Experience > Interview Ability > References > Personal Essay > GPA > PCAT > Extracurricular Activities

That's how it should be for pharmacy school admissions. There are too many douchebags with 4.0 GPAs and 99 PCATs, that have never worked an hour in their life, don't have any references, and have a ****ty personal essay that are getting in over people who do have experience, are very sociable people, but have a lower GPA.

Please, don't call people douchebags... its just not neccessary and unprofessional. Just because someone has a high GPA/PCAT doesn't mean that they are douchebags. As for working in their life... I think that is relative... is studying not working? By your defination... excuse me if I am misreading you... if you have a 4.0 ~ 99PCAT... you've had everything handed to you and don't deserve anything because others have worked deserve it more? You don't have any references because your grades are soo good... and must not have any good reason for being a pharmacist? Also, all people with high GPAs must not be sociable people... after your just a nerd because you have a high GPA?

I think your feelings are misplaced. Truth be told, there are douchebags on all sides of the field. Don't generalize because... that is quite offensive to many people.