Great 5 yr gen surg programs

[dell2004]

What are considered some great 5 yr gen surg programs?

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[mikegoal]

i have never heard of 5 year GS programs

 

[Winged Scapula]

i have never heard of 5 year GS programs

Huh? How many years are you thinking are typical?

 

[Yosh]

I thought 5 years was more the "norm" aside from people who want a competitive fellowship...and extend a year or two to do research....

I have never seen anything more than 5 years...MD or DO...

 

[The_Id]

I thought 5 years was more the "norm" aside from people who want a competitive fellowship...and extend a year or two to do research....

I have never seen anything more than 5 years...MD or DO...

Some highly academic programs have an absolute requirement for 2 years of research, and thus are sometimes referred to as a 7 year program.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

it seems to me that there are a lot of 5 year programs. There are quite a few University programs that are 5 years. The only 7 year I can think of off the top of my head is Duke, although I really only read up on the SE schools.

 

[delchrys]

duke is 7 because of the research requirement. to get into a highly competitive fellowship it seems like that is what is needed (a stint doing research).

i'm curious if there are any folks out there who are either planning on or doing a peds surg fellowship, or who know reliable info about peds surg fellowships (or even who have useful links to that kind of info). one question off the top of my head is whether peds surg is something you can get if you do your GS residency at a community hospital.

 

[Winged Scapula]

it seems to me that there are a lot of 5 year programs. There are quite a few University programs that are 5 years. The only 7 year I can think of off the top of my head is Duke, although I really only read up on the SE schools.

Frankly, the vast majority are only 5 years. Some may suggest/encourage research but the number of programs that require it is very few. UVA has a 7 year track, and UCSF is a required 7 years in addition to Duke. I'm sure there are others, but again, definitely not the norm to require 7 years.

 

[Blade28]

Off the top of my head, Cedars Sinai is a 6-year program, and UCLA, UCSF, Stanford and BWH are 7-year programs. Many others could be longer than 5, if you chose to take a year or two off to do research.

 

[newtosf94143]

What are considered some great 5 yr gen surg programs?

Whatever you do, avoid UCSF. We had three people quit last year from our program and this year is not looking any better. I am heading for exit! I know of three others who are contemplating the same. Living in San Francisco is great but UCSF GS sucks.

 

[Sir Jun]

Whatever you do, avoid UCSF. We had three people quit last year from our program and this year is not looking any better. I am heading for exit! I know of three others who are contemplating the same. Living in San Francisco is great but UCSF GS sucks.

Wow! what kind of things have led to so many departing?

 

[carrigallen]

Before believing any post,

1. Read the date of the account. (Sept 2004)

2. Read their post history. (One other post)

3. Evaluate the post content for maturity and credibility.

Conclusion: the UCSF poster is likely a Troll.

 

[gatorAKM]

we still have not addressed the question posed in the initial post on the thread.

And the answer is that it depends on what your goals are. If you are looking toward a fellowship, then certainly a university program with either a required or optional research year(s) is important.

If you are looking for a career in private practice, maybe you want to go to a place with early operative experience with high case volume and variety, such as found in many community based programs.

The original question is a broad based one. THere have been several threads in past years that have addressed similar queries, but it just depends on what you are looking for out of your career.

 

[Blade28]

Agreed, there are many factors to consider when choosing a residency program. FREIDA lists some of them; you may also want to look at Iserson's book.

 

[newtosf94143]

Before believing any post,

1. Read the date of the account. (Sept 2004)

2. Read their post history. (One other post)

3. Evaluate the post content for maturity and credibility.

Conclusion: the UCSF poster is likely a Troll.

If you need further proof, call anethesia dept. at UCSF and asked them how many of their residents came from Surgery at UCSF last year! Be careful what you wish for, you might get it!

 

[mfleur]

If you need further proof, call anethesia dept. at UCSF and asked them how many of their residents came from Surgery at UCSF last year! Be careful what you wish for, you might get it!

So, what's wrong with the dept. then?

 

[jc7721]

Be serious for a second--you are graduating medical school (or close to it), with some sense of reason, and someone posts a very inflammatory, yet intriguing critique of a very well respected "top 10" surgery program. What to do with such info? Corroborate. Investigate. Ask questions. But please do not disregard such comments. Read the replies above, and you see that many are just as baseless, devoid of fact, and useless as the original post they intend to debunk. There very well may be an ounce of truth to the claims about UCSF, maybe more, but you will never know unless you check it out for yourself. I interviewed at UCSF only 9 months ago and there wasn't even a hint of this type of 'exodus' from the program. They will obviously try to smooth over or not even mention such facts if true, but for all those people who will apply there for no reason other than it's 'supposed to be one the best', and that their step one scores are >250, watch out--ask questions, go beyond the hype. I was surprised by my reactions to many of the 'best' programs. I am the happiest, and luckiest intern right now because I'm at a great academic program with even better residents and it makes all the difference in the world, depsite how hard or demanding work may be. To be at 'supposedly the best program' with zero-personality residents with no social life and even less comraderie, is suicide.

Now, how to choose the best program for you......start here if you haven't already discovered it;

http://www.facs.org/medicalstudents/index.html

My advice is simple: Almost all surgery residency programs are good, but not equal. Do you want to do research? Yes = academic program, Maybe or No = academic or community. Easy. Geography---this one's self explanatory. Competetiveness--to be serious, if your step 1 score isn't much higher than the mean with an average application (whatever that means), don't plan on getting many interviews at the big academic/research programs (Duke, UCSF, Mich, WashU, Hopkins, UCLA, Brigham, etc). It's just a fact-though you may have a 'shot'. Do you want a county hospital or VA experience? This narrows it down. Do you have a family--a major consideration. USNews's hospital rankings--some people actually care about this kind of thing! It happens. Reputation of the program--go to the faculty at your school and ask--even ask attendings you haven't worked with, they may have interesting comments. Start to put all of these things together and you will easily be able to narrow your list down to 20-30 programs. Hopefully. My 'best' program was one with a great reputation among faculty, incredible residents, no mandatory research but with a very strong research component, a county hospital, VA hospital, Children's hospital, and in a city larger than 500,000 that had a lot to do outside the hospital (despite my lack of time)

 

[Blade28]

My advice is simple: Almost all surgery residency programs are good, but not equal. Do you want to do research? Yes = academic program, Maybe or No = academic or community. Easy. Geography---this one's self explanatory. Competetiveness--to be serious, if your step 1 score isn't much higher than the mean with an average application (whatever that means), don't plan on getting many interviews at the big academic/research programs (Duke, UCSF, Mich, WashU, Hopkins, UCLA, Brigham, etc). It's just a fact-though you may have a 'shot'. Do you want a county hospital or VA experience? This narrows it down. Do you have a family--a major consideration. USNews's hospital rankings--some people actually care about this kind of thing! It happens. Reputation of the program--go to the faculty at your school and ask--even ask attendings you haven't worked with, they may have interesting comments. Start to put all of these things together and you will easily be able to narrow your list down to 20-30 programs. Hopefully. My 'best' program was one with a great reputation among faculty, incredible residents, no mandatory research but with a very strong research component, a county hospital, VA hospital, Children's hospital, and in a city larger than 500,000 that had a lot to do outside the hospital (despite my lack of time)

That is an informative, brutally honest piece of advice. It is very much appreciated.