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I love the heading. I'll make that substitution in this case.
Thanks for your response, LizzyM!
Thanks for your response, LizzyM!
Great tips for entering your "Work/Activities" for AMCAS
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Should activities or experiences that were part of a course be listed?
For example, one of my volunteer experiences (approx. 200 hours) was required for one of my courses. Should I list it? Should I mention that it was a course requirement?
Also, I took a Research Methods course in which we were required to complete a semester long (non-medical) research project, though it was never submitted for publishing. Should this be listed?
For example, one of my volunteer experiences (approx. 200 hours) was required for one of my courses. Should I list it? Should I mention that it was a course requirement?
Also, I took a Research Methods course in which we were required to complete a semester long (non-medical) research project, though it was never submitted for publishing. Should this be listed?
Volunteerism is still volunteerism whether it was done for a scholarship requirement, a course, or just for the sake of doing it.
So I'd put it on there. You can mention that you did it as part of the course in the description if you want. But still list it and what you did. Maybe what you learned from it.
I'd put the research project under research/lab or whatever category it is and then explain what you did and what you were researching. But only if it was pretty extensive research. You don't need to be published to be able to put research on there.
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three questions here:
1) is leadership necessary? im not gonna lie, i have no interest in any club on campus. when going to ug it seemed totally necessary to have some form of leadership. how is it for med school? by necessary i mean will it detract from your app if you are deficient in leadership but still have many other activities.
2) what constitutes a strong clinical base? ive been browsing through mdapps wondering how kids with 40+ mcat and 3.9+ gpa with great activities dont even get an interview at some top schools. when looking further, i noticed that EVERY single one did more research as opposed to clinical work. how can i establish a good clinical base? i plan to shadow a few doctors, possibly do an internship with another, and do clinical research (does this add to your clinical base, ie activities that show you know what medicine is all about?), and misc. hospital volunteering.
3) is it bad to work in one area of medicine exclusively? i am working for a doctor and probably every project i do with him will involve his specialty. his activities will actually take up much of my time...will it hurt me? i am very interested in his work, but i just dont want to get cut short if med schools think i havent seen the whole of medicine.
thanks!
1) is leadership necessary? im not gonna lie, i have no interest in any club on campus. when going to ug it seemed totally necessary to have some form of leadership. how is it for med school? by necessary i mean will it detract from your app if you are deficient in leadership but still have many other activities.
2) what constitutes a strong clinical base? ive been browsing through mdapps wondering how kids with 40+ mcat and 3.9+ gpa with great activities dont even get an interview at some top schools. when looking further, i noticed that EVERY single one did more research as opposed to clinical work. how can i establish a good clinical base? i plan to shadow a few doctors, possibly do an internship with another, and do clinical research (does this add to your clinical base, ie activities that show you know what medicine is all about?), and misc. hospital volunteering.
3) is it bad to work in one area of medicine exclusively? i am working for a doctor and probably every project i do with him will involve his specialty. his activities will actually take up much of my time...will it hurt me? i am very interested in his work, but i just dont want to get cut short if med schools think i havent seen the whole of medicine.
thanks!
I have heard that its good to shadow several doctors in different specialties but I don't think working in that area of medicine alone is going to hurt you as long as you can show you've been exposed to medicine enough to know what you are getting yourself into to some degree.
Clinical experience is important far more important then research at most institutions because the premise of going to medical school is to become a physician or surgeon, and most will obviously work with patients to some degree either in academia or in private settings. So you know it only makes sense that you need clinical exposure.
The most common way of getting such exposure is via volunteering in a clinical setting through things like childlife dept volunteering doing crafts with kids or reading to kids, volunteering in an ER making beds and making sure patients are ok, volunteering in any other hospital dept., small clinic, or otherwise volunteering in a clinical setting with physicians and or surgeons are present. Also included in clinical volunteerism is overseas volunteering on medical mission trips.
Other ways to get clinical experience are through working in a allied health profession or as a CNA, EMT-B, PCT, etc. in a setting where physicians and surgeons are often present.
I think clinical exposure is extremely important for obvious reasons.
What is not so important is to join stupid organizations around campus. Keep in mind that leadership is not defined soley as being a leader in a club or organization. If you are a dancer, a musician, an athlete, etc. then leadership might be being a team captain of a dance troupe or sport team, being the head musician in a band, etc. If you are a manager at a job then that is leadership. If you are heading a group of volunteers for a continued weekly activity where you are the lead volunteer in designing and implementing the projects and distributing tasks to other volunteers then that is leadership.
Leadership comes in many forms and is often misinterpreted as being something affiliated to positions in student organizations. People who do leadership through organizations do it that way because its the easiest way to get such leadership exposure but the ones at the top most universities who have leadership are more often then not those who are leaders in more innovative ways as presented in my examples in the above paragraph.
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Here is another example of leadership I just thought of. I don't know if any of you have ever taught group classes in your gym but I used to have a couple of different friends that taught group aerobic classes (step and kickboxing). Teaching a class like that or being a TA for a class (some schools allow ugrads to be TAs) or being a teacher for a group of students and not individual tutoring. Those all also go in the leadership category though they can also be put under teaching categories.
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Just adding a bit to what gujuDoc wrote 👍
Yeah, I had officially nothing I listed as 'leadership' on my application BUT any of the following that I did could probably be construed as leadership:
(1) Tutoring students in a foreign language
(2) Participating in a chamber ensemble (music) -- it took some leadership to organize meetings
(3) Performing on the piano (you don't have to have a group of followers to lead! 😉)
(4) Teaching for a test-prep company
(5) Doing volunteer work where I was 'guiding/leading/advising' homeless people as to their legal rights.
(6) Acting as a research study coordinator.
Maybe some of these help to give you some ideas.
Yeah, I had officially nothing I listed as 'leadership' on my application BUT any of the following that I did could probably be construed as leadership:
(1) Tutoring students in a foreign language
(2) Participating in a chamber ensemble (music) -- it took some leadership to organize meetings
(3) Performing on the piano (you don't have to have a group of followers to lead! 😉)
(4) Teaching for a test-prep company
(5) Doing volunteer work where I was 'guiding/leading/advising' homeless people as to their legal rights.
(6) Acting as a research study coordinator.
Maybe some of these help to give you some ideas.
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thanks for your help guys. i have a kinda silly question but...do connections help in getting into a specific med school? say i was working under a doctor who happens to have graduated from and is an assistant clinical professor at the med school. when application season rolls around, what would a letter of rec and possibly a phone call be worth for that school?
this is assuming solid gpa, mcat, and other activities too btw.
this is assuming solid gpa, mcat, and other activities too btw.
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Very helpful thread....
1) I have a question regarding summer employment during my undergrad years. I worked full-time jobs (40hrs/week) each summer but they were not clinical in nature and each summer was a different job. I don't want to use 3 of my 15 slots for these so would it be OK to put them all under one heading as "summer employment" to show that I was productive in between school years even though I didn't get much time to volunteer in clinical positions?
2) I did a 5 month placement in my senior year (~15hrs/week) that involved working with severely mentally ill patients. Immediately following that semester I started a full-time job working with students affected with mental illness (lasted 2 years). Should I put these under two separate slots or together since the experiences were similar though the number of hours and locations are different?
1) I have a question regarding summer employment during my undergrad years. I worked full-time jobs (40hrs/week) each summer but they were not clinical in nature and each summer was a different job. I don't want to use 3 of my 15 slots for these so would it be OK to put them all under one heading as "summer employment" to show that I was productive in between school years even though I didn't get much time to volunteer in clinical positions?
2) I did a 5 month placement in my senior year (~15hrs/week) that involved working with severely mentally ill patients. Immediately following that semester I started a full-time job working with students affected with mental illness (lasted 2 years). Should I put these under two separate slots or together since the experiences were similar though the number of hours and locations are different?
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Thanks! I guess if you think about it, you can come up with bunch of stuff.
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Yeah, and some schools specifically ask for essays about your leadership abilities/experiences (on secondaries). So it's definitely worthwhile to frame your activities as such in your mind because you may have to write an essay about it later.
I definitely got a lot of interview questions about "how am I a leader?"
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Yeah, I'm not LizzyM, but maybe I can be a little helpful.
Yes, based on what I've heard from friends with family members at different schools, connections definitely help. They don't guarantee anything but they help.
You should weigh whether this doctor's letter is going to be good for ALL the schools you apply, to, though. Unless the school s/he works at is your 100% top choice and you have a very good chance of admission.
1. Yeah, you can absolutely lump the experiences. Make sure you clearly explain what happened, though. One, short, succinct separate paragraphs for each job.
"In summer 2007, I worked for blah blah blah blah
In summer 2008, I sold blah blah blah
In summer 2009, I was paid to blah blah blah"
2. Do you mean senior year of high school? Technically you're not supposed to list activities you did in high school. If you find a creative way to lump the two experiences without making the entry too confusing, then you should go for it. Perhaps you could say something along the lines of:
"During my senior year in high school I did X, which further motivated me to do Y while in college." (Unless that's not true!)
Yes, based on what I've heard from friends with family members at different schools, connections definitely help. They don't guarantee anything but they help.
You should weigh whether this doctor's letter is going to be good for ALL the schools you apply, to, though. Unless the school s/he works at is your 100% top choice and you have a very good chance of admission.
1. Yeah, you can absolutely lump the experiences. Make sure you clearly explain what happened, though. One, short, succinct separate paragraphs for each job.
"In summer 2007, I worked for blah blah blah blah
In summer 2008, I sold blah blah blah
In summer 2009, I was paid to blah blah blah"
2. Do you mean senior year of high school? Technically you're not supposed to list activities you did in high school. If you find a creative way to lump the two experiences without making the entry too confusing, then you should go for it. Perhaps you could say something along the lines of:
"During my senior year in high school I did X, which further motivated me to do Y while in college." (Unless that's not true!)
I agree with everything Pianola said except that I'd not lump the 2 mental illness jobs together. I'd separate them out because they are two completely different settings and experiences even though the patient types may be the same.
I'm going to guess you meant senior year of college but if it is senior year of high school I'd say that it is more of something to talk about in your PS then in your activities section.
Thanks guju and Pianola. I should have been more specific, it was in fact my senior year in university. I'm still not sure if I will lump the two mental health experiences together since they were two very different settings, but it's good to know there is no right or wrong way to present things. Thanks!
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Hi guys, I'm on the injured reserve list at the moment but I may stop in from time to time....
I'd separate the two mental illness gigs because the locations are different, the roles were different (I presume) and the time frames and hours per week are significantly different.
If you can spare the spots, it is much easier for a adcom to determine how you spent each summer of college if you list each f/t summer activity as a separate entry, particularly if they were separate items.
I guess I was a little worried that because these jobs had nothing to do with health care and they only lasted 3-4 months, the adcom would consider them as "fillers" in my application. Thanks for the tip.🙂
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Haha, I listed an activity that took...24 hours.
You're fine.
(I specified that it had only taken 24 hours, too).
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Some adcom members specifically like to see how you spent each summer. Having 40/hr wk for 3-4 mos answers that question quite clearly.
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what do you mean weigh the doctor's letter? i dont think he is gonna custom tailor it for that school, but rather just put his credentials at the bottom.
should he custom tailor it for that specific school? and yes, it is my number one, but i of course still want to apply broadly.
should he custom tailor it for that specific school? and yes, it is my number one, but i of course still want to apply broadly.
That is not what she means. She means that you should be able to get a good strong letter showing that he knows you well. She also means that if it is for the purpose of connections it will only help you for those schools where he may have connections and not elsewhere necessarily.
I agree with this. I think it is important to separate them out. That is like if I were to lump all the pediatric volunteering in one place but instead I had a spot for All children's volunteering, a spot for Shriners volunteering, and a spot for reach out and read with TGH outreach pediatric clinics listed separately because they were all different activities and my roles were slightly different, different time frames, etc. in each activity.
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In addition to the packet of letters that you send to every school, you could ask "the doctor" to send a letter on your behalf only to the school where he has connections and to specify in that letter that it is your first choice. He should address this directly to the Dean of Admissions or Director of the Office of Admissions or whatever the job title is at your first choice school. I've seen that done it and it can be effective.
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employment or "other"
You could pick "other" from the pull down menu & call the activity "entrepreneur" I like that; it shows leadership.😀 I'm serious.
I have another question about my ECs. In university (graduated 5 years ago) I was on the tennis team and because our schedules changed week to week, and we were often traveling on weekends, it was very hard to have regular volunteer activities. As a team we decided to do volunteer work every chance we got but the activities changed each time (one weekend we helped with Habitat for Humanity, another we gave free tennis lessons, helped with a cancer walk, etc). I'm trying to decide whether or not I should include these in ONE of my 15 spots since I don't have many spots to spare. The only problem with not including them is that in the last five years I have done some pretty cool volunteer work, but that only began last summer.
If I don't include a list of these random volunteer activities in college, will the adcom think I just wasn't into volunteering back then and I only just recently began doing volunteer work last summer in order to look good on applications? Or will they assume that since I am an older applicant I probably had too many things to include in only 15 spots? Not sure if I should waste my spot on such random/short-term activities when I have done more substantial things since....
If I don't include a list of these random volunteer activities in college, will the adcom think I just wasn't into volunteering back then and I only just recently began doing volunteer work last summer in order to look good on applications? Or will they assume that since I am an older applicant I probably had too many things to include in only 15 spots? Not sure if I should waste my spot on such random/short-term activities when I have done more substantial things since....
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Use one slot for "volunteer non-clinical" list the inclusive dates but leave out hours per week. In the free text section, describe that the tennis team volunteered as a group as time permitted and that volunteer efforts included Habitat, tennis clinics for kids, etc.
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Yes. It gives the adcom an idea of how you spend your free time. It might also provide a topic for conversation during interviews (if the interviewer plays the same sport, or has a kid who plays that sport, etc). Any extracurricular that shows your interests outside of medicine is a good addition to the application.
Also, I would like to point out a few things.
There is actually a category for intramural sports/athletic acvities in the drop down menu of different categorizations of activities. I don't think this or artistic endeavors would be there if all they wanted to see was what you did academically. So I'd venture to guess adcoms consider it important enough to have a category specially made for these 2 major groups of extracurriculars.
That said, team sports like intramurals show a commitment to something, if you were team captain then it shows leadership, and it is also a good way to show teamwork effort. You can illustrate this all through your sports. You can show them both that you are not a boring bland cookie cutter and have outside interests while also showing them that you are participating in something that has taught you important lessons in teamwork, leadership, sportsmanship, determination and diligence needed to complete a task (in this case winning a game or putting your best foot forward).
So I'd definitely list sports for which you were on a team via intramurals or varsity athletics or which you coached i.e. little league coach or some school coach role.
The only time I'd not list a sport is if it was like shooting hoops outside of my house by myself. But intramurals is something I'd consider putting in AMCAS because it shows true teamwork and is part of being a greater team who participated on some level competitively.
I have a question regarding employment. As a non-trad now back at school taking classes, volunteering, and studying for the MCAT, I have been working for my dad's company part-time in order to pay my bills. I don't want to add this to my application since it's not a huge amount of work, and it has nothing to do with medicine or anything of interest to me. If I leave it out, will the adcom think I am slacking off with a light course load or is it assumed that we are only putting in the highlights, and not everything we do with our time?
No I don't think they will. However, I'd put it in just because its a job. But only if you have enough spaces for all your 15 slots. if it takes away from something else you'd rather use your 15 slots for, then I'd not talk about it.
I'd also like to mention that just as artistic endeavors and sports are meant to be put in if done competitively or professionally or with association with a school, so are any jobs meant to be put in there if there is enough space to put it in. so don't feel that if it is not medically relevant that it will be overlooked. adcoms like to see how you spend your time. However, if you have no space because of other activities then you might not want to list it.
Good luck with everything.
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Participation in sports also shows a commitment to physical fitness and exercise.
Doing sports by yourself is OK if it is a solitary sport like running. Training for a marathon or half marathon or even running 5K and 10K races on a regular basis is worth putting on your application.
I think you and I are saying one in the same. Just slightly differently. My point was just shooting hoops, for instance, once in awhile isn't a worthy thing to note. Running a marathon or doing something semicompetitively, dancing either in a troop or solo in professional performances or at nursing homes regularly or for dance competitions at school, etc. then its noteworthy. These are just examples. But you see what I'm saying.
so i've started writing descriptions of my activities and they are coming out to be about 130 -160 words each (they're under the character limit set by amcas) is this to much.. or to little?
i just don't want to write so much that they dont read it
i just don't want to write so much that they dont read it
I don't know that there is any correct amount of words to have. But here is my thoughts. Some adcoms at some schools want you to be brief and just give a description of what you did.
Some would also like to know what you learned and why you did it.
Put enough in your description that you could answer at least what you did for the most part and possibly what you got out of it where its not necessarily obvious especially.
Don't be too wordy but put enough words that you get your point across. If you feel you can do that in less words rather then more, then do so.
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Don't do anything just to put it on your application. That sort of thing reeks. If you respect the work the Red Cross does and you want to be a part of it as a way to serve your community, then sign up and get involved and participate for as long as you can (ideally through all 4 years of college and beyond).
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a strange question, but can anyone give me any ideas on outstanding activities i could do? i just have so much free time right now, and i really want to do something that stands out. yes yes, i know i should find something im passionate about, but i am interested in everything and i just dont know what to do. thanks.
Sorry I know you don't want to hear it, but yes the best answer is do something you are passionate about. Are you really not sure about what you are passionate about? i.e. sports, music, anything at all? Figure out what your talents are and put them to use. If you are a musician, put your music skills to use. If you are an athlete you may get involved in athletics. Do what interests you. just make sure to have some clinical experience.
Do something that interests you. Also, this kinda stuff is not meant to be asked in this thread but in a separate thread. This thread is meant for questions specifically related to how to enter activities into AMCAS and once you have activities whether or not something is considered putting on AMCAS in the first place and how to categorize it, etc.
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LizzyM,
I have read several differing opinions about the format for the experience descriptions of extracurricular activities. Some have said that the descriptions should be in first person narrative. Others have said that simple bulleted lists should be used to list out what was accomplished.
I would personally prefer to use first person narrative so I can tie in what I learned from the various experiences that I had and how this was valuable to me.
Do you know if the Adcoms have any preference? Your insight would be most helpful.
I have read several differing opinions about the format for the experience descriptions of extracurricular activities. Some have said that the descriptions should be in first person narrative. Others have said that simple bulleted lists should be used to list out what was accomplished.
I would personally prefer to use first person narrative so I can tie in what I learned from the various experiences that I had and how this was valuable to me.
Do you know if the Adcoms have any preference? Your insight would be most helpful.
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The essay is a narrative. The experience section is more of a list. When we look at this we are usually asking ourselves:
has the applicant done anything in a clinical setting? what & for how long?
has the applicant done research? what & for how long?
what has the applicant done as service to the community/to help others?
what does the applicant do for fun?
what did the applicant do during summer vacations in college?
did the applicant have work responsibilities or play varsity sports?
At my school, at least one member of the faculty will read every word of your application. Most hope to be able to do that in 20-30 minute. Slogging through too much chatter can be annoying. Being able to scan the experience section quickly and answer those questions is efficiently is the goal. What you learned from your experiences or how you tie it together can be something to discuss in your interview. I've also seen it addressed well in the essay but limit yourself to three experiences (employment/research/volunteerism).
so the adcoms are looking for all of these things... what do i do if my clinical stuff overlaps with other categories? my clinical experience has all been associated with paid employment. i worked in a doctor's office, which included lots of administrative stuff but also learning how to take patients' height/weight/blood pressure. i'm pretty sure i'll list this as paid employment, though. the more complicated situation is this:
my more substantial clinical stuff is part of my (paid-ish) job this year, which is doing medicaid advocacy for people with mental illness. i do a weekly walk-in session at a clinic in a homeless drop-in center to give patients help with health insurance. i also go to hospitals to assist psych patients with discharge planning. here's how i'm planning to list this-- please tell me if it's a bad idea!
-overall description of the job as paid employment
-weekly clinic hours as clinical experience
-possibly list the psychiatric discharge planning as clinical if i have the space for another item (otherwise it will go in the job description)
will this make it seem like i'm double-dipping? i just don't want adcoms to read through my stuff and say, "where's the clinical experience?" so i'm hesitant to list everything as paid employment. which it was/is.
(here's the kicker-- i'm doing this job as part of a service program, so i'm not a salaried employee! i live on a small stipend, so *technically* i'm volunteering. i won't list it as such; i just think it's funny that this job provided me with such valuable experiences that are SO hard to put into AMCAS!)
on second thought... could i just list my job this year as clinical experience, since i spend at least 75% of my time interacting with psych patients? bahhh i'm confused!
EDIT: i'm sorry for this crazy post. LizzyM, or anyone else, if you can actually provide me with advice after reading this, well... you're EVEN more awesome than i thought!
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You can call something employment, non-military or you can call it volunteer, clinical. In either case, we're going to read the name of the place, your job title, and the description you provide.
I wouldn't advise splitting a full-time activity into 3 parts. It looks much stronger to be out of school with a 32-40 (or more) hr/wk "job". Just describe what you do in the text section. It should be pretty obvious that you are working with mentally ill clients and some of these folks are hospital patients.
Discharge planning and health insurance advocacy aren't really blood & guts sorts of services. Have you had any interactions with the physically ill?
I wouldn't advise splitting a full-time activity into 3 parts. It looks much stronger to be out of school with a 32-40 (or more) hr/wk "job". Just describe what you do in the text section. It should be pretty obvious that you are working with mentally ill clients and some of these folks are hospital patients.
Discharge planning and health insurance advocacy aren't really blood & guts sorts of services. Have you had any interactions with the physically ill?
thanks, LizzyM! i have had interaction with the physically ill... since i'm do the medicaid help sessions in a clinic, the people i talk to there are usually getting checked out for various things or having minor procedures done. actually, calling it a "clinic" is barely accurate... it's not that fancy. this place is super under-funded, and the desk i sit at is actually *in* the exam room, wedged between a filing cabinet full of medical supplies and a big cart full of medications. so i'm oftentimes bumping up against a doctor or nurse who is trying to do their thing. it's pretty crazy but i love doing it.
so you don't think it's a red flag if none of my experiences are listed as "volunteer, clinical?" because the only *volunteer* clinical experience i have was when i volunteered in a hospital the summer before i started college, which i thought i wasn't supposed to include. i've also shadowed a bunch, so that will be in there as well.
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No, it isn't a red flag to have no "volunteer, clinical". However, no one will fault you for adding something you did after HS graduation. (Heck some people serve in the military for 4 years before college... should they not include that because it was before college??)
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This might be a unique question (or perhaps not): I am in the process of developing an engineering software package. This software was not created as part of any paid job activity. I got the idea when I saw that my work wants to perform a specific task that no other software package is able to do as of yet. So I started thinking about it and decided to put it together.
The catch is that I myself am not a software publising company (Mircosoft, Adobe, etc.) and the software techinically has not officially been sold/released yet. So I am not sure if you can call it as being developed since no one else is aware of it. It is still sitting on my computer at home. I do plan to sell/market it...but this fact should not be relevant to my application, I suppose?
Can this be classified as a publication or something else? I thought about choosing this as a hobby since I do enjoy programming, but it is more than just a hobby.....it is also leadership in that I took the initiative myself (whatever the motives were).
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
The catch is that I myself am not a software publising company (Mircosoft, Adobe, etc.) and the software techinically has not officially been sold/released yet. So I am not sure if you can call it as being developed since no one else is aware of it. It is still sitting on my computer at home. I do plan to sell/market it...but this fact should not be relevant to my application, I suppose?
Can this be classified as a publication or something else? I thought about choosing this as a hobby since I do enjoy programming, but it is more than just a hobby.....it is also leadership in that I took the initiative myself (whatever the motives were).
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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