Mjolner

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Maybe this should be in the non trad forum since they're more likely to succeed in these situations, but what's the greatest underdog success anyone is willing to admit achieving on here? Any MD acceptances with something crazy like a <3.0 or a 24 MCAT? Just curious what people have overcome on their path to MD.
 

catzzz88

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I had this really terrible hangnail once...
 

Chemistry Cat 3.0

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Maybe this should be in the non trad forum since they're more likely to succeed in these situations, but what's the greatest underdog success anyone is willing to admit achieving on here? Any MD acceptances with something crazy like a <3.0 or a 24 MCAT? Just curious what people have overcome on their path to MD.
I made a D in Chemistry back in high school and another D in General Chemistry 1 for Nursing Major. I was on academic probation for a year because my GPA was only 1.6.

Long story short, I managed to graduate with a MS in Chemistry (3.5 GPA) and I am currently working on my PhD in Chemistry. God Bless!

I'm gonna apply to couple of MD and DO schools in 3 years.
 

AestheticGod

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Hopefully I'll have a great underdog story after this cycle :thumbup:
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It'll be an underdog story if you even get a interview....
Honestly..I would instead apply to a dozen DO and Caribbean schools to save yourself some time/money.


Good luck with your Caribbean+DO medical school applications for 2012. Keep us updated with threads, comments, replies, and even videos! We wanna see you succeed with those underdog stats man! Keep us updated, and thanks for the motivation! :D
 

Hemorrage

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I made a D in Chemistry back in high school and another D in General Chemistry 1 for Nursing Major. I was on academic probation for a year because my GPA was only 1.6.

Long story short, I managed to graduate with a MS in Chemistry (3.5 GPA) and I am currently working on my PhD in Chemistry. God Bless!

I'm gonna apply to couple of MD and DO schools in 3 years.
please tell me you didn't get a PhD to get into medical school. lol
 

Perrotfish

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Graduated with a 2.8 and over 160 credit hours, not URM, admitted US MD 1 year after graduation.
 

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please tell me you didn't get a PhD to get into medical school. lol
No, my ultimate goal is to become a medical scientist. I know that there are MD/PhD programs, but I didn't think I was able to handle that kind of stress, so I decided to finish PhD first and then apply to either MD or DO school afterward.
 

JCTWP46

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It'll be an underdog story if you even get a interview....
Honestly..I would instead apply to a dozen DO and Caribbean schools to save yourself some time/money.


Good luck with your Caribbean+DO medical school applications for 2012. Keep us updated with threads, comments, replies, and even videos! We wanna see you succeed with those underdog stats man! Keep us updated, and thanks for the motivation! :D


lol aware
 

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No, my ultimate goal is to become a medical scientist. I know that there are MD/PhD programs, but I didn't think I was able to handle that kind of stress, so I decided to finish PhD first and then apply to either MD or DO school afterward.
How is it too stressful? You do 2 years med school, 4-5 years Ph.D and then 2 years of med school. only difference with your method is you'll pay med school out of pocket and do all 4 years after the 4-5 years of the Ph.D.
 

Shmemifly

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How is it too stressful? You do 2 years med school, 4-5 years Ph.D and then 2 years of med school. only difference with your method is you'll pay med school out of pocket and do all 4 years after the 4-5 years of the Ph.D.
That poster also was probably not competitive for MD-PhD at the time (based on his/her claims of underdog status and a 1.8 gpa one semester). Now, they're probably competitive for MD, and will be still in a great position to pursue a career as a physician scientist.
 

OCDOCDOCD

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No, my ultimate goal is to become a medical scientist. I know that there are MD/PhD programs, but I didn't think I was able to handle that kind of stress, so I decided to finish PhD first and then apply to either MD or DO school afterward.
You do know that MD/PhD programs split the med school and grad school portions, right? Unlike in grad school, you don't do research while taking classes in an MD/PhD program, so already that's less stressful. Many med school professors have also told me that med school classes are easier than grad school classes, so that's another thing you just made more stressful for yourself (also the fact that now you have to take both graduate and medical school classes).

But the part you really screwed up on is that by planning to apply MD-only to med school you now have to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to become a physician scientist. There's a reason why most MD/PhD programs (and PhD programs in general) waive tuition: No one in their right mind would ever pay to become a scientist, because you will NEVER see a return on that investment. MD programs are priced with the assumption in mind that you'll become a specialized physician and make at least $200k/year. As a scientist you'll be making about $40k while you're in post-doc limbo, $50-$60k as an assistant professor, $60k-$80k as an associate professor, and $90k-$110k as a full professor. Sure, there are private companies, but I assume that isn't what you want since if it was you could already have a job at one of those companies with an MS and be earning about the same salary you'd have with a PhD at those same companies (this is, of course, assuming that you have expertise in a field that biomed companies want like biochem or microbiology).

I have heard of scientists going to med school after getting their PhDs. In fact, I know one woman who got her PhD in physics and is now working on getting her MD. Thing is, all of those people only went to med school after they had no luck getting jobs and/or funding as scientists, and thus were planning on becoming physicians only, not physician-scientists.

Finally, consider that the MD/PhD is effectively overkill for any kind of research. Both MDs and PhDs can and do conduct basic, translational, and clinical research. You don't need the MD/PhD. There are reasons why a person might want to get one, but if you already have a PhD there's absolutely no point in getting an MD unless you want to change careers completely.

tl;dr - Don't waste your time with the MD unless you want to be a physician.
 

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You do know that MD/PhD programs split the med school and grad school portions, right? Unlike in grad school, you don't do research while taking classes in an MD/PhD program, so already that's less stressful. Many med school professors have also told me that med school classes are easier than grad school classes, so that's another thing you just made more stressful for yourself (also the fact that now you have to take both graduate and medical school classes).

But the part you really screwed up on is that by planning to apply MD-only to med school you now have to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to become a physician scientist. There's a reason why most MD/PhD programs (and PhD programs in general) waive tuition: No one in their right mind would ever pay to become a scientist, because you will NEVER see a return on that investment. MD programs are priced with the assumption in mind that you'll become a specialized physician and make at least $200k/year. As a scientist you'll be making about $40k while you're in post-doc limbo, $50-$60k as an assistant professor, $60k-$80k as an associate professor, and $90k-$110k as a full professor. Sure, there are private companies, but I assume that isn't what you want since if it was you could already have a job at one of those companies with an MS and be earning about the same salary you'd have with a PhD at those same companies (this is, of course, assuming that you have expertise in a field that biomed companies want like biochem or microbiology).

I have heard of scientists going to med school after getting their PhDs. In fact, I know one woman who got her PhD in physics and is now working on getting her MD. Thing is, all of those people only went to med school after they had no luck getting jobs and/or funding as scientists, and thus were planning on becoming physicians only, not physician-scientists.

Finally, consider that the MD/PhD is effectively overkill for any kind of research. Both MDs and PhDs can and do conduct basic, translational, and clinical research. You don't need the MD/PhD. There are reasons why a person might want to get one, but if you already have a PhD there's absolutely no point in getting an MD unless you want to change careers completely.

tl;dr - Don't waste your time with the MD unless you want to be a physician.
Thank you for your feedback, I truly appreciated it. I did not apply to any MD/PhD programs at the time because I thought MD was not for me (lacked of clinical/shadowing/volunteering experiences), and a PhD would be a better fit for me.

As for right now, I volunteer at a local hospital 4 hrs/week for the next 12 months. This will give me the opportunity and time to determine if MD is for me or not, because I'm not applying for another 3 years.

To my knowledge, a PhD degree from a MD/PhD joint program is not well-respected in the scientific community (3 Yrs vs 5-7 Yrs).
 
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ECU Pirate, that is a great path to take. My sister plans to do that if she doesn't get accepted either (but because she's too young).

To those who said it's not stressful, it actually is...I know a guy who dropped out of the MD/PhD track and is now doing medical school overseas in Europe.
 

OCDOCDOCD

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Thank you for your feedback, I truly appreciated it. I did not apply to any MD/PhD programs at the time because I thought MD was not for me (lacked of clinical/shadowing/volunteering experiences), and a PhD would be a better fit for me.

As for right now, I volunteer at a local hospital 4 hrs/week for the next 12 months. This will give me the opportunity and time to determine if MD is for me or not, because I'm not applying for another 3 years.

To my knowledge, a PhD degree from a MD/PhD joint program is not well-respected in the scientific community (3 Yrs vs 5-7 Yrs).
Considering there are MDs who do research (not MD/PhDs but MDs) I'd have to imagine that the loss of respect isnt very significant. I have heard its looked down upon as a sort of "fast track" around the dissertation, but considering it takes twice as long to become a physician-scientist thats a pretty stupid view for anyone to hold. And at the end of the day what will get you a job and grant money are your connections and CV, not your degree.
 

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Considering there are MDs who do research (not MD/PhDs but MDs) I'd have to imagine that the loss of respect isnt very significant. I have heard its looked down upon as a sort of "fast track" around the dissertation, but considering it takes twice as long to become a physician-scientist thats a pretty stupid view for anyone to hold. And at the end of the day what will get you a job and grant money are your connections and CV, not your degree.
An MD is not a research degree, and the type of research they can conduct is very limited. You won't be able to start your own research group in academia with only a MD degree, as well as getting prestigious external research grant funds from NIH (possible, but more difficult).

A PhD to MD route is not usually recommended because it's expensive and time-consuming, but it's not uncommon. A friend of mine is in a MSTP program, and the amount of stress he's under every day is just unimaginable. I won't be able to handle that.

"And at the end of the day what will get you a job and grant money are your connections and CV, not your degree" I do agree with you on this one partially. Nowadays, your connections and CV are more influential than your degree(s), this is probably true to any degrees.
 

thesauce

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To my knowledge, a PhD degree from a MD/PhD joint program is not well-respected in the scientific community (3 Yrs vs 5-7 Yrs).
No one cares even a little.

An MD is not a research degree, and the type of research they can conduct is very limited. You won't be able to start your own research group in academia with only a MD degree, as well as getting prestigious external research grant funds from NIH (possible, but more difficult).
There are far more MDs than MD/PhDs doing research (even basic science research). They are not limited in the least. So long as they take the time to learn the techniques, it's infinitely doable.
 

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There are far more MDs than MD/PhDs doing research (even basic science research). They are not limited in the least. So long as they take the time to learn the techniques, it's infinitely doable.
There are currently 134 MD schools (avg. 125-150 entering class/yr/school) and 44 MSTP programs (avg. 20-24 entering class/yr/program) in the US. It's expected to see that there are MDs doing research than MD/PhDs.
 

thesauce

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There are currently 134 MD schools (avg. 125-150 entering class/yr/school) and 44 MSTP programs (avg. 20-24 entering class/yr/program) in the US. It's expected to see that there are MDs doing research than MD/PhDs.
Correct. Adding to that, less than half of MD/PhDs do any research whatsoever after residency. Of course, the numerical argument only holds true if you assume that MDs are not limited in their ability to pursue research. Were you going somewhere with this?
 
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There are currently 134 MD schools (avg. 125-150 entering class/yr/school) and 44 MSTP programs (avg. 20-24 entering class/yr/program) in the US. It's expected to see that there are MDs doing research than MD/PhDs.
20-24 average entering class for an MSTP seems very inaccurate. Only the very biggest (Washington-St. Louis) are that large.
 

CodeBlu

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An MD is not a research degree, and the type of research they can conduct is very limited. You won't be able to start your own research group in academia with only a MD degree, as well as getting prestigious external research grant funds from NIH (possible, but more difficult).

A PhD to MD route is not usually recommended because it's expensive and time-consuming, but it's not uncommon. A friend of mine is in a MSTP program, and the amount of stress he's under every day is just unimaginable. I won't be able to handle that.

"And at the end of the day what will get you a job and grant money are your connections and CV, not your degree" I do agree with you on this one partially. Nowadays, your connections and CV are more influential than your degree(s), this is probably true to any degrees.
No. Just no.
 
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An MD is not a research degree, and the type of research they can conduct is very limited. You won't be able to start your own research group in academia with only a MD degree, as well as getting prestigious external research grant funds from NIH (possible, but more difficult).
It will be a bit harder, but not entirely impossible. There are still plenty of PIs with only an MD degree but are doing some amazingly crazy research (including basic science).

Take a look:
http://www.hhmi.org/cgi-bin/scientist_search/search.pl?kw=&ns=&is=&ls=&rs=&ss=&ks=&it=INVESTIGATOR&sf=&sd=1&pn=3
 
OP
Mjolner

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I think this thread kinda got hijacked.
 

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Ebola4Breakfast

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I'd imagine that the MD/PhD's and PhD's would scoff at a MD when it comes to lab research.
If you do good research, founded on solid experimental design, no one cares what form your advanced degree takes (MD, PhD, MD/PhD, PharmD, etc). In fact, physician researchers can be an awesome asset in collaborations because they bring a unique perspective due to the differences in training.

ECU Pirate, no one cares whether a MD/PhD was earned separately or in combination. One is not lesser than the other. That's not an opinion you'll want to voice freely. Also, an MD may not be a research degree but that's what postdoctoral fellowships are for. Conducting research, writing manuscripts, and successfully writing grants are largely learned skills.
 

aspiringdoc09

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OP, Idk, but I'm sure there are exceptions and people who have had success with lower numbers. Perhaps they had a good backstory and lot to offer as a diverse candidate.
 

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I'd imagine that the MD/PhD's and PhD's would scoff at a MD when it comes to lab research.
Yes, it's a fact, and the majority of people know it. However, I know there are some "know-it-all" kind of people on here who aren't a MD-PhD nor a PhD would disagree with this. I have learned to ignore their comments, just saying.
 

Ebola4Breakfast

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Yes, it's a fact, and the majority of people know it. However, I know there are some "know-it-all" kind of people on here who aren't a MD-PhD nor a PhD would disagree with this. I have learned to ignore their comments, just saying.
Actually, bro, I have a PhD.
 

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ECU Pirate, no one cares whether a MD/PhD was earned separately or in combination. One is not lesser than the other. That's not an opinion you'll want to voice freely. Also, an MD may not be a research degree but that's what postdoctoral fellowships are for. Conducting research, writing manuscripts, and successfully writing grants are largely learned skills.
People will care about this if you try to start your own research group in academia, especially at top prestigious schools. But, it's probably not a big deal if that's something you don't want to pursuit in the future.
 

Perrotfish

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This is a pretty good one. What was your MCAT score?
34. That plus a lot of luck for me into a good special masters program. A good performance there got me into the school that hosted the program
 

MedPR

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34. That plus a lot of luck for me into a good special masters program. A good performance there got me into the school that hosted the program
Ah very cool. I've heard so much about those SMPs, but very few stories about people actually getting into to med school afterward. Most of the time I hear about people who did well in the SMP, but still didn't get in anywhere.
 

Arbor Vitae

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An MD is not a research degree, and the type of research they can conduct is very limited. You won't be able to start your own research group in academia with only a MD degree, as well as getting prestigious external research grant funds from NIH (possible, but more difficult).

A PhD to MD route is not usually recommended because it's expensive and time-consuming, but it's not uncommon. A friend of mine is in a MSTP program, and the amount of stress he's under every day is just unimaginable. I won't be able to handle that.

"And at the end of the day what will get you a job and grant money are your connections and CV, not your degree" I do agree with you on this one partially. Nowadays, your connections and CV are more influential than your degree(s), this is probably true to any degrees.
Do you even know what you're talking about? There are plenty of MDs who have started their own research groups. To become a PI in charge of your own lab in academia it is expected even for PhDs to do respectable post-doc fellowships. An MD would have to do a post-doc fellowship as well. Instead of doing a residency they could post-doc and go into academia. It is also probably much easier to get a post-doc position at a big name school with an MD than it is with a PhD, and thus would open more doors for research and grant money.
 

MedPR

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Graduated with a 3.1 cGPA and 3.0 uGPA. Was advised that it was unlikely I would ever get into medical school with my GPA. I had taken all my pre-reqs and so I couldn't do a post-bacc to boost my uGPA.

Anyway...got my act together and did a masters program and got a 4.0 and a publication. Studied pretty hard (but not too hard) for a 35Q mcat. Not URM. Going to a top ten med school in Fall. It's possible to overcome an abysmal GPA if you are willing to put in the time and effort.
Top 10 with those stats? Wow.