Gunner Training?

[hope2bpaindoc]

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A

 

[Gunneria]

GT mneumonics are dirty and its the incessant daily pounding that makes you feel like you're a robot just spewing out data

 

[JackShephard MD]

I like their mnemonics.

I always try to think of the why of each mnemonic if possible.

 

[Alvarez13]

Good to see. I need that feature so badly.

On another note I am currently trying to pound bacterial toxins into my brain. It's like trying to break through a brick wall. All the toxins and their mechanisms just make me want to throw a tomato. But it's slowly getting better. After a couple weeks of rating all the toxin questions "2" I'm starting to recall a little bit ....as opposed to going 'wtf' everytime.

Toxins are very high yield. Pound em into yer head.

 

[Gunneria]

Just curious, where are all you guys at at %banked/% mastery? Im at 22/10 with about a month left till classes start...a bit ambitious but the main goal's to shoot for 50% since I know things will get busy and ill add only the relevant cards a day during the year to go along with pharm and path

 

[loveoforganic]

46/31. Have about 60 more cards I'm going to try to knock out over the next week, and I'm going to call it good for the summer. Will have about 2 weeks to try to master them as much as I can to try to cut down on L2 time commitment. Didn't really do all the micro banking I wanted (only did about 10%), but I will have knocked out most of the normal immuno and gotten through pathoma once, so still happy with it. Learning micro over the summer would have driven me up a wall

 

[echo523]

Hello everyone!

I've tried reading all the replies but it was just too long... so my question might have been repeated by someone but....

a quick question. I signed up for a free trial yesterday. It seems like there is a free 1 month code going around. Can I still use it after the trial period is over? If I can, can someone please send me the code? I just finished 1st year and would like to start using this if it is good as everyone says it is.

Thank you so much!

 

[JackShephard MD]

46/31. Have about 60 more cards I'm going to try to knock out over the next week, and I'm going to call it good for the summer. Will have about 2 weeks to try to master them as much as I can to try to cut down on L2 time commitment. Didn't really do all the micro banking I wanted (only did about 10%), but I will have knocked out most of the normal immuno and gotten through pathoma once, so still happy with it. Learning micro over the summer would have driven me up a wall

You went through Pathoma once? How was it?

I bought it this week but haven't received anything in the mail or tried it, too busy with other stuff. Did you bank GT cards alongside Pathoma or just go through the book + videos?

Micro does seem terrible, not sure how to approach that beast.

Hello everyone!

I've tried reading all the replies but it was just too long... so my question might have been repeated by someone but....

a quick question. I signed up for a free trial yesterday. It seems like there is a free 1 month code going around. Can I still use it after the trial period is over? If I can, can someone please send me the code? I just finished 1st year and would like to start using this if it is good as everyone says it is.

Thank you so much!

Hmm, I'm not quite sure but probably won't let you stack 1 month + 2 weeks. GT is what you make it, like anything else. So some people love it and others find it too time consuming and full of faults. I tend to like the strengths of the program, which is why I use it. Just use it 2 weeks and go hard (try to bank 10+ cards everyday), if it seems valuable then sign up for the year.

 

[loveoforganic]

You went through Pathoma once? How was it?

I bought it this week but haven't received anything in the mail or tried it, too busy with other stuff. Did you bank GT cards alongside Pathoma or just go through the book + videos?

Micro does seem terrible, not sure how to approach that beast

I annotated the book and banked cards for the first 2.25ish chapters of pathoma, then I just started watching the videos (no book or anything - I actually didn't get lazy this time, that was my plan). I've only done 10.5 of the 19 vids so far (by the end of the summer, I'll have finished them all once). Dr. Sattar is a great teacher. There's still a fair amount of random histo details and whatnot he just says to be aware of, but I'd say at least 75% of the content I'm able to learn a fair bit from - he breaks down the mechanisms well. Definitely don't regret having done it at this point, but can't fairly weigh in on the benefit until seeing how it helps in path.

And yeah, micro is definitely doable over the summer if you're so inclined. I'm just personally going to need the push of having to learn it for class to get myself to sit down and do it

 

[GTP]

I'm at 23/19. My goal is to bank 10 cards a day from now till end of July when school starts. That should put me around 50% but not quite. If gt doesn't go above 1200 cards, I will be done banking by end of jan if I bank 3 cards a day during school. I have a five week Christmas break, so I'll try to bank 2-3 a day but really go at it during the break.

 

[melvih]

hey all - looking to try out GT this summer. they used to do the free month but now have shortened it to two weeks... definitely not long enough for me to tell if I actually like it or not. does anyone have a code or invite they can share? would really appreciate it. PM me. thx.

 

[GTP]

PMed u

 

[Gunneria]

loveoforganic, ur not even human...howd u manage all this with classes and research...im just desperately trying to get 1st year banked lol

 

[bbaggins]

I'm at 93.5/78.8. My original goal was to have everything banked by the beginning of second year ( alittle over 1 month away) so that classes would be that much easier. I don't think I'm going to be completely finished though because the remaining cards I have are either a lot larger/harder, and I'd like to enjoy the rest of my summer.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I'm at 93.5/78.8. My original goal was to have everything banked by the beginning of second year ( alittle over 1 month away) so that classes would be that much easier. I don't think I'm going to be completely finished though because the remaining cards I have are either a lot larger/harder, and I'd like to enjoy the rest of my summer.

What school do you go to that had enough time to bank 80% of GT during 1st year (MD/DO/approximate rank)? I remember your post a few months back.

Anyway, lol. You are probably the prototypical gunner, finishing M2 board material before you're an M2. I couldn't imagine doing that, you must have studied 24/7.

 

[bbaggins]

It was a pass fail school, and I got super bored going to lectures. My grades weren't super high, probably around the average in all classes. Plus, I felt lit was much easier to learn maybe not all but a lot of the path and pharm while learning the physiology, since it was based on a lot of the same concepts. So I would bank as many of the pathology and pharmacology cards while being taught physio, and I found it helped me to learn the physiology better.

 

[GTP]

It was a pass fail school, and I got super bored going to lectures. My grades weren't super high, probably around the average in all classes. Plus, I felt lit was much easier to learn maybe not all but a lot of the path and pharm while learning the physiology, since it was based on a lot of the same concepts. So I would bank as many of the pathology and pharmacology cards while being taught physio, and I found it helped me to learn the physiology better.

You beast, you 🙂

 

[JackShephard MD]

It was a pass fail school, and I got super bored going to lectures. My grades weren't super high, probably around the average in all classes. Plus, I felt lit was much easier to learn maybe not all but a lot of the path and pharm while learning the physiology, since it was based on a lot of the same concepts. So I would bank as many of the pathology and pharmacology cards while being taught physio, and I found it helped me to learn the physiology better.

I agree it's probably beneficial. Systems based seems so much better.

It's just funny that you found the time to cover the entirety of path during M1. I'm almost certain with our schedule (mandatory groups and crap) that 99% of people wouldn't have been able to do school, GT, + M2 GT, and have some resemblance of a life. Which is why I wouldn't mind if they just let us do our thing during M1 and avoided all the mandatory crap / attendance taking.

Cheers though. I'll be interested to hear how your prep goes during second year. You'll definitely have tons of time for whatever with your GT pace.

 

[loveoforganic]

loveoforganic, ur not even human...howd u manage all this with classes and research...im just desperately trying to get 1st year banked lol

I mostly banked class material during classes, so it wasn't that much of an extra commitment - it helped with classes some

I'm at 93.5/78.8. My original goal was to have everything banked by the beginning of second year ( alittle over 1 month away) so that classes would be that much easier. I don't think I'm going to be completely finished though because the remaining cards I have are either a lot larger/harder, and I'd like to enjoy the rest of my summer.

The banked isn't amazing, but the mastery is. I've tried banking non-class-taught information, and it takes me a good while to get the mastery up. Almost 80% is a solid end mastery before boards.

 

[iCY]

Finished step 1/posted my thoughts on the 2012 page. I thought I would mention my thoughts on GT for step 1 prep since I did use it for many topics throughout the year and in my dedicated study time

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12728719&postcount=1667


Honestly I thought GT was a gigantic waste of my time. I used it throughout the 2nd year to learn many of the organ system pathology, but I had to reset it after every organ system b/c I didn't feel like wasting time reviewing old material when I should be focusing on new material. I eventually dropped GT towards the middle of my 2nd year, and my grade in pathology stayed the same, so I feel confident saying that GT didn't really help me anymore than doing qbank questions did. ALso qbanks give you much better insight into the disease process than straight memorizing details in GT. Remember that alot of topics in medicine requires analysis, not straight memorization.

I came close to 80-90% mastery on biochem. THis took me 1 week of banking/watching kaplan videos, and another 2 weeks of daily review questions, and I ended up with THREE 2#$@#$% biochemistry questions. What a @#$^% waste of time. I knew every pathway forwards and backwards!

I also used GT for embryology, and that ALSO was a waste of time because GT goes WAY BEYOND what is being tested on step 1. I remember GT cards/questions including more detail than was in FA, and step 1 ONLY really tests big high yield topics. My main embryo question was "which branchial arch is the superior parathyroid". The rest of my embryo questions were all pathology stuff related to meckle's diverticulum. So do I think using GT, which includes more detail/takes longer to memorize, is a good idea for embryo? NO!

Microbio - this was a really simple section on my test. I can see GT being useful for my microbio class, but uworld was more than enough for the questions that showed up on my step 1.

pharm - GT is a huge waste of time. Stick to memorizing drug names/MOA and use Uworld to teach you important clinical uses and adverse effects. Pharm, like micro and embryo, tends to stick to high yield topics only. NO surprises here. GT is NOT necessary.

I feel like alot of young people (like first year gunners) are being lured into GT because it appeals to their ego. It gives you the opportunity to memorize and MASTER all of step 1 topics! But honestly, you don't need to master and memorize everything. Reading FA and doing all of uworld will get you far enough. If you really want to waste your time and shoot for a 270+ (even though doing research is a much more important use of your time), then I can see how GT would be valuable.

Last thing I want to say is, who the @#$% is writing the cards in GT? It is NOT necessary to make a step 1 review product that is more complicated than FA. All of you who praise GT will soon realize how much of your time you have wasted, when you actually sit for you exam and realize all the questions on step 1 are stupidly simple and don't require a year worth of refreshing embryology at 100% mastery. I memorized that **** 3 days before my test and I nailed all of the 1 embryo question on my exam, hahhahahaha.

Tldr : Don't waste months memorizing all of GT so that you can get that one extra question correct on your exam. Also GT will never be a baby version of uworld. Nothing beats uworld. THE END.

 

[Brotato]

By definition GT is for people that want to blow the test out of the water and are crazy and masochistic enough to endure the daily questions. It's definitely not for everyone, and not everyone should or needs to do it.

 

[JackShephard MD]

Finished step 1/posted my thoughts on the 2012 page. I thought I would mention my thoughts on GT for step 1 prep since I did use it for many topics throughout the year and in my dedicated study time

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12728719&postcount=1667


Honestly I thought GT was a gigantic waste of my time. I used it throughout the 2nd year to learn many of the organ system pathology, but I had to reset it after every organ system b/c I didn't feel like wasting time reviewing old material when I should be focusing on new material. I eventually dropped GT towards the middle of my 2nd year, and my grade in pathology stayed the same, so I feel confident saying that GT didn't really help me anymore than doing qbank questions did. ALso qbanks give you much better insight into the disease process than straight memorizing details in GT. Remember that alot of topics in medicine requires analysis, not straight memorization.

I came close to 80-90% mastery on biochem. THis took me 1 week of banking/watching kaplan videos, and another 2 weeks of daily review questions, and I ended up with THREE 2#$@#$% biochemistry questions. What a @#$^% waste of time. I knew every pathway forwards and backwards!

I also used GT for embryology, and that ALSO was a waste of time because GT goes WAY BEYOND what is being tested on step 1. I remember GT cards/questions including more detail than was in FA, and step 1 ONLY really tests big high yield topics. My main embryo question was "which branchial arch is the superior parathyroid". The rest of my embryo questions were all pathology stuff related to meckle's diverticulum. So do I think using GT, which includes more detail/takes longer to memorize, is a good idea for embryo? NO!

Microbio - this was a really simple section on my test. I can see GT being useful for my microbio class, but uworld was more than enough for the questions that showed up on my step 1.

pharm - GT is a huge waste of time. Stick to memorizing drug names/MOA and use Uworld to teach you important clinical uses and adverse effects. Pharm, like micro and embryo, tends to stick to high yield topics only. NO surprises here. GT is NOT necessary.

I feel like alot of young people (like first year gunners) are being lured into GT because it appeals to their ego. It gives you the opportunity to memorize and MASTER all of step 1 topics! But honestly, you don't need to master and memorize everything. Reading FA and doing all of uworld will get you far enough. If you really want to waste your time and shoot for a 270+ (even though doing research is a much more important use of your time), then I can see how GT would be valuable.

Last thing I want to say is, who the @#$% is writing the cards in GT? It is NOT necessary to make a step 1 review product that is more complicated than FA. All of you who praise GT will soon realize how much of your time you have wasted, when you actually sit for you exam and realize all the questions on step 1 are stupidly simple and don't require a year worth of refreshing embryology at 100% mastery. I memorized that **** 3 days before my test and I nailed all of the 1 embryo question on my exam, hahhahahaha.

Tldr : Don't waste months memorizing all of GT so that you can get that one extra question correct on your exam. Also GT will never be a baby version of uworld. Nothing beats uworld. THE END.

I think we had similar criticisms of the program. I don't think they needed to go beyond FA level of detail either, with the strongest suit being spaced repetition which is ridiculously good.

I really struggle with the idea of the program because @ times I think it's a huge time commitment but then I see that spaced repetition works. I also agree that memorizing something gets you nowhere, you need to be able to think out the disease processes and apply the info. Yet, I think GT gives you the ability to jump into this faster.

In the end, I like the program a lot and wish it didn't go into excessive detail in some areas (i.e. just stick to FA). And when they start wanting to be Uworld, it makes me go crazy.

I wonder if I spent 100% of my GT time on Qbanks + high quality questions, if that would better serve me. I do not know. I do know that repetition or spaced repetition + questions is my path to success. I've made a lot of progress on this program so it's hard for me to drop it right now.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I wonder if Pholston has figured out Step 1 prep. Massive amounts of questions = winning...

I hate when I doubt my plans, lol.😕

 

[Brotato]

I wonder if Pholston has figured out Step 1 prep. Massive amounts of questions = winning...

I hate when I doubt my plans, lol.😕

I feel like only doing questions will only help you if you have a powerful memory (as he clearly does). Otherwise you lack repetition. By the time you're on your thousandth question, you'll have forgotten the knowledge from many earlier questions. As for me, I'm capable of forgetting important things that I read just last WEEK, so doing only questions might not work for me so well. I think I will do better with a balanced approach (questions + didactic + repetition) because my memory is not strong

 

[iCY]

I wonder if Pholston has figured out Step 1 prep. Massive amounts of questions = winning...

I hate when I doubt my plans, lol.😕

Its true that repetition is necessary for learning, but how much repetition is too much? you do NOT need to repeat **** for an entire year to for it to be "permanently ingrained into your mind". I started learning biochem/embryo/anatomy/neuro at the start of my dedicated study period. I studied it at the beginning, did some questions throughout the study period, and gave them a 2nd read through + 2nd round at uworld questions in those subjects before my exam. Aside from ridiculous anatomy questions, I can think of only one neuro question (of those subjects listed) that I did not know the answer to.

ALso don't forget that doing qbank is repetition. Everytime you do a question about a VSD, you read all the answer choices which explain ASD, PDA, etc.. and a few days later when you randomly get another question about an ASD this time, you once again will learn about VSD, PDA, etc... So doing qbanks actually has a built in repetition. The important topics in step 1 have MULTIPLE questions in the qbank and will show up several times in you dedicated study period. Also for you weaker areas you can repeat the questions. Plus qbank Qs have the benefit of training you to analyze questions!

Overall the questions which I had the most difficult time with on the test were the conceptual types of questions regarding molecular biology or some experiment. These are NOT questions you can memorize through GT. Memorizing all of FA or GT probably would have gotten me an extra 2 questions correct on the exam (I forgot one basic pharm fact, and I forgot one lesion in neuro)

 

[iCY]

I feel like only doing questions will only help you if you have a powerful memory (as he clearly does). Otherwise you lack repetition. By the time you're on your thousandth question, you'll have forgotten the knowledge from many earlier questions. As for me, I'm capable of forgetting important things that I read just last WEEK, so doing only questions might not work for me so well. I think I will do better with a balanced approach (questions + didactic + repetition) because my memory is not strong

false. you retain information much better after you do questions. THe questions paint a very vivid picture of the disease in your mind, plus there is the frustration of not knowing wtf is going on with the patient. Most of my questions on the test were straight recall like "i've seen this similar patient presentation in a qbank"

 

[Gunneria]

Icy i feel like your biased...more importantly, lets be real, the goal of the first two years of med school is to learn, foundationally, all of first aid for step1 and beyond i.e. Rotations or Step 2 when ull need to to rehash the stuff from step 1 and im sure you"ll be grateful for at least having known all the important details at this point by using gt diligently

One thing you cant criticize is this point: gt and both fa present material in a similar fashion which essentially is a rote memorization of things to know and since most people say know FA cold, using the spaced repetition system of GT works wonders, and i personally wouldnt want the daunting challenge of cramming FA during my six week dedicated study time.

At the same time, i agree with you that qbanks, especially multiple passes at UWorld and rx or kaplan are vital to the learning process. However, you gotta admit, for a baseline and foundational knowledge prior to hitting up the qbanks and in a relatively moderately paced system that helps you integrate with classes short term and long term for the boards, GT is still amazing. I do see ur frustration about the resetting issue and I hope GT can help further statify which review questions to do by topics within a section (i believe they let you do that now btw!)....Moreover about conceptually learning stuff, pathoma and kaplan vids and brs costanzo and goljan audios are also helpful sources that TEACH than just make you memorize...you might say ots overkill but hey you prob just lucked out on a good exam in the crapshoot process.

 

[JackShephard MD]

Icy i feel like your biased...more importantly, lets be real, the goal of the first two years of med school is to learn, foundationally, all of first aid for step1 and beyond i.e. Rotations or Step 2 when ull need to to rehash the stuff from step 1 and im sure you"ll be grateful for at least having known all the important details at this point by using gt diligently

One thing you cant criticize is this point: gt and both fa present material in a similar fashion which essentially is a rote memorization of things to know and since most people say know FA cold, using the spaced repetition system of GT works wonders, and i personally wouldnt want the daunting challenge of cramming FA during my six week dedicated study time.

At the same time, i agree with you that qbanks, especially multiple passes at UWorld and rx or kaplan are vital to the learning process. However, you gotta admit, for a baseline and foundational knowledge prior to hitting up the qbanks and in a relatively moderately paced system that helps you integrate with classes short term and long term for the boards, GT is still amazing. I do see ur frustration about the resetting issue and I hope GT can help further statify which review questions to do by topics within a section (i believe they let you do that now btw!)....Moreover about conceptually learning stuff, pathoma and kaplan vids and brs costanzo and goljan audios are also helpful sources that TEACH than just make you memorize...you might say ots overkill but hey you prob just lucked out on a good exam in the crapshoot process.

Here is how I would prioritize Step 1 studying:

#1. Understanding all the material in FA
#2. Going through tons of qbank questions (content coverage + test skills)
#3. Memorizing the material in FA
#4. Memorizing material beyond FA

This is my only criticism of GT. What % of time is spent on the most important elements of Step 1 and what are spent on the least. It depends on the topic, some topics in GT/FA are very conceptual/FA-based while others are not. So sometimes I'm using GT and reveling in conceptual prowess while other times I'm pounding #4 facts that may be helpful in 12 months. Again it returns to areas of focus. Is most of your time being spent on 1 and 2 or 3 and 4? How valuable is #4? How valuable is #4 multiple months before the test date?

In the end, resources are limited - not unlimited. Therefore, the more time spent on #4 means less time spent on #2. I've seen between 40-50% of GT, so I can't judge it in it's entirety. GT works though, no doubt. Anyone who crosses 100%/90% line will be in a great position to work through qbanks. Yet is achieving that status better than doing a few passes of Uworld? Or not even completing Uworld? Good questions that we all need to answer.

This remains, spaced repetition flash cards is by far the best way to remember facts. The question we all need to answer is this: Is the bigger challenge of Step 1 being able to recall more facts or is it being able to solve conceptual problems. Yes, it involves both, but what is the bigger issue? The bigger issue must be treated as such and given more time + effort.

I do not know the answer to this question.

 

[iCY]

Here is how I would prioritize Step 1 studying:

#1. Understanding all the material in FA
#2. Going through tons of qbank questions (content coverage + test skills)
#3. Memorizing the material in FA
#4. Memorizing material beyond FA

This is my only criticism of GT. What % of time is spent on the most important elements of Step 1 and what are spent on the least. It depends on the topic, some topics in GT/FA are very conceptual/FA-based while others are not. So sometimes I'm using GT and reveling in conceptual prowess while other times I'm pounding #4 facts that may be helpful in 12 months. Again it returns to areas of focus. Is most of your time being spent on 1 and 2 or 3 and 4? How valuable is #4? How valuable is #4 multiple months before the test date?

In the end, resources are limited - not unlimited. Therefore, the more time spent on #4 means less time spent on #2. I've seen between 40-50% of GT, so I can't judge it in it's entirety. GT works though, no doubt. Anyone who crosses 100%/90% line will be in a great position to work through qbanks. Yet is achieving that status better than doing a few passes of Uworld? Or not even completing Uworld? Good questions that we all need to answer.

This remains, spaced repetition flash cards is by far the best way to remember facts. The question we all need to answer is this: Is the bigger challenge of Step 1 being able to recall more facts or is it being able to solve conceptual problems. Yes, it involves both, but what is the bigger issue? The bigger issue must be treated as such and given more time + effort.

I do not know the answer to this question.

Well put.

GT does not differentiate between HY/LY and you spend an equal amount of time learning LY info using GT. If you are strapped for time (like a 5-6 week cram schedule) than learning conceptual information should be the # 1 priority, because you will ALSO pick up facts along the way. Spaced repetition does work (I used anki throught the year and for some info from uworld/FA), but its really not necessary for the exam because when you are studying all of FA in a 5-6 week period, you are going to see the information MULTIPLE times in a 5-6 week period which = repetition. I actually learned most of my immunology by doing uworld questions and NOT reading the immuno section cover to cover. By the time I finished doing all the immuno questions in uworld, i took a quick skim through FA and I knew most of the information in immuno.

and to gunneria, you are incredibly naive. I really don't care to argue with someone who hasn't really gone through most of pre-clinicals or step 1 studying yet. You can make up all the theories you want about how you think medschool SHOULD work or how step 1 studying SHOULD work, but the fact is that you don't have a clue. Its unfortunate that this form lacks the presence of people who have actually taken the test and instead is populated by people who are just shooting in the dark trying to make up their own theories about the best way to study.

The most realistic/best study plan that I've seen on this form is the "do all of uworld 2-3 times and get a 260" plan. I cant count the # of hours I WASTED trying to memorize all of embryology in GT, only to have ONE SIMPLE question asking which branchial pouch is the superior parathyroid (you might understand that comment more when you actually start studying for step 1) Don't forget that theres some top medschools out there that give ONLY 3 WEEKS to prepare for this exam. If you really think memorizing GT or FA is the standard for studying for this test, you are very wrong!


Also I did not "Luck" out on my exam. Talk to people from you school and count the # of people who say "my exam was balanced" vs people who say "i had nothing but ridiculous questions like detailed head and neck anatomy". Ofcourse my exam also had some detailed stuff that I had never really seen before, but that was an incredibly small minority, and the people in this form play up those questions wayy too much. I especially loved the post in the 2012 forum where one of the posters said she didn't even FINISH some of the blocks, and rocked a 268. Ever wonder how stuff like that happens?

long story short, don't make up crazy theories based on what what you've read on the internet. Do an actual NBME or uworld random block to see what level of knowledge is required to answer questions. You don't get points for "mastery of X%", you get points for correctly understanding and answering questions, most of which are really obvious.

 

[Chirurg]

Here is how I would prioritize Step 1 studying:

#1. Understanding all the material in FA
#2. Going through tons of qbank questions (content coverage + test skills)
#3. Memorizing the material in FA
#4. Memorizing material beyond FA

This is my only criticism of GT. What % of time is spent on the most important elements of Step 1 and what are spent on the least. It depends on the topic, some topics in GT/FA are very conceptual/FA-based while others are not. So sometimes I'm using GT and reveling in conceptual prowess while other times I'm pounding #4 facts that may be helpful in 12 months. Again it returns to areas of focus. Is most of your time being spent on 1 and 2 or 3 and 4? How valuable is #4? How valuable is #4 multiple months before the test date?

good post.

 

[Gunneria]

Sorry icy i wasnt trying to argue at all...like i said GT to me is first aid and i like the interface of gt vs simply reading first aid. Having compared gt to fa while going along, gt is all of fa plus more.I think my emphasis on gt stems from the previous users who have used it and took step and loved it. Coming from a top ten med school, ill agree no one in my class uses GT but probably myself...but i use gt because my prior testing experiences (mcAt or med school exams) made me realize how much cramming for stuff sucked and how long term spaced reptition is truly my style. With that being said, as a question of advice, can I just stick with GT (im at 25 percetbanked and might hit 50 before second year)...at the very least i can perfect recall all of first year stuff and come to them later. Meanwhile if you recommend it, perhaps i can just stick to doing uworld 2-3x and just say screw rx and kaplan qbank...im just shooting for a 245 btw which should he good enough for the residency (orthopeds) im interested in. I really would appreciate advice that aims to minimize the resources i need while shooting for yield. I think the paranoia and obsession of gt and wantig it all stems from the importance of the step 1 for residency so as "gunners" we just try to take the approach less traveled and maybe not too practical bit still works.

 

[loveoforganic]

iCY, I agree with most of your points. GT far exceeds what is necessary to do well. The vast majority of students study either spring semester onward or just during dedicated study time, and many do well doing that. However, for those shooting for 250+ (I think beyond that is where you start to see quickly diminishing returns as far as residency apps go), it adds a healthy cushion. There are almost certainly other ways to buy yourself that cushion, such as doing a crap ton of better USMLE-style questions (Rx, Qbank, Worldx50, etc.), but I honestly wouldn't be putting in anywhere near the same amount of time if I didn't have the spaced repetition (daily scheduled cards that will screw you if you don't do them that day). It just comes down to whether or not the time and effort are worth it to the individual. I'm planning on sticking with it

 

[Dr Ypaint]

Regarding the LY/HY headache some of you are having, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what the Lite mode is for?

 

[iCY]

Regarding the LY/HY headache some of you are having, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what the Lite mode is for?

short answer = NO.

Its kinda hard to explain this one. The easiest way to understand it is by saying that some CARDS in GT are high yield (like a card on asthma or heart disease would be very high yield) whereas a card in another topic might be low yield.

Now when it comes to a high yield card (like asthma), you want to learn it well/in detail, so you would want that card in comprehensive mode

whereas a card that is low yield (like lets say something from embryology thats not covered in uworld or FA), you could go for a light mode.

But the way the system is set up, you either take all in comprehensive or all in light mode, which is NOT a good approach. Comprehensive mode is going to drown you with unnecessary info, while light mode is going to miss alot of the important information

The best use of GT that I found when I was studying was that I would put a "p" for every question/information that was NOT in first aid, so that I toned GT down to only FA information. But like i've mentioned in my previous posts, even memorizing all of FA can be a bit unnecessary for the exam, unless you are shooting for 270+. I think you can get all the way to a 250-260 w/ basic knowledge from uworld, without memorizing everything in FA.

 

[Dr Ypaint]

sounds cool. could u pm me a list of cards that u put a "p" for? :3

 

[iCY]

Sorry icy i wasnt trying to argue at all...like i said GT to me is first aid and i like the interface of gt vs simply reading first aid. Having compared gt to fa while going along, gt is all of fa plus more.I think my emphasis on gt stems from the previous users who have used it and took step and loved it. Coming from a top ten med school, ill agree no one in my class uses GT but probably myself...but i use gt because my prior testing experiences (mcAt or med school exams) made me realize how much cramming for stuff sucked and how long term spaced reptition is truly my style. With that being said, as a question of advice, can I just stick with GT (im at 25 percetbanked and might hit 50 before second year)...at the very least i can perfect recall all of first year stuff and come to them later. Meanwhile if you recommend it, perhaps i can just stick to doing uworld 2-3x and just say screw rx and kaplan qbank...im just shooting for a 245 btw which should he good enough for the residency (orthopeds) im interested in. I really would appreciate advice that aims to minimize the resources i need while shooting for yield. I think the paranoia and obsession of gt and wantig it all stems from the importance of the step 1 for residency so as "gunners" we just try to take the approach less traveled and maybe not too practical bit still works.

If you seem to have the time for GT, and you are spending an adequate amount of time for your classes (and doing well), then it doesn't hurt to stick with it. If you grades in you classes are suffering, its best to abandon GT and focus on schoolwork.

For 2nd year, the same thing goes. THeres ALOT of memorization necessary for some second year courses (we take pharm, micro, and path together 2nd year). So if you are spending 1-2 hours every day doing quizzes on first year material, and you're not mastering all of the second year material for your classes, you are going to get screwed.

Remember that MOST of step 1 is from 2nd year material (path, micro, pharm, pathophys). Even physiology is re-learned along with path/pathophys (I actually didn't even study physiology as a separate subject when prepping for step 1, the background from pathophys 2nd year was enough for me to answer all my physio questions). This is the reason why some people start off scoring in the 220-230 range in their school-mandated NBME after finishing their 2nd year, b/c most of the exam is 2nd year material!

So the best approach to 2nd year is to master all of the material you possibly can, then cram the 1st year info in your dedicated study period (which will take about 2-3 consecutive weeks). I found that to be a much better approach, vs constantly doing quizzes on 1st year material throughout 2nd year (besides 1st year material is incredibly boring, and I would probably shoot myself if I had to do biochem every single day).

As for which qbanks to use, use one throughout the year for PATHOLOGY ONLY (you don't need to do alot of questions in microbio or pharm, they test basic memorizable facts), then use uworld during your dedicated study period and cram the **** out of uworld.

 

[Gunneria]

can i just say screw Kaplan Qbank and use ROBBINS Q and A for PATH only and then use uworld down the road?

 

[lrkoehle]

GT is definitely not for everyone. It seems iCY is one of those people. We have had similar discussions before so I'm not going to go into a long winded discussion about GT here, but I think all the regular posters know how I feel about GT. That opinion has only become stronger after my dedicated study period and after taking the real thing. I must point out that resetting GT after each block and not keeping up with it during the year doesn't really count as using GT. Also, it's not called FA training, so if you don't like having more detail that FA, it's probably not for you. It's called GUNNER training, which implies it will have all the details a "gunner" or someone shooting for a 260+ would be looking for. Again, that's not for everyone.

There are countless other approaches to scoring really well on step 1, so no one thinks GT is the only way to do it. FA and UW is popular here, but I frankly hated FA, even after spending countless hours annotating into it to try to make it better. UW of course is great, but if I didn't have that solid medical knowledge foundation from GT, it would not have been nearly as useful either. Everyone is different though.

I'll stop there, since this is the last weekend I have before I start rotations. I get iCY's complaints (we've seen them here before) and think they add to the discussion on this thread, but I just wanted to provide a contrasting opinion as some one who has taken step 1.

 

[iCY]

GT is definitely not for everyone. It seems iCY is one of those people. We have had similar discussions before so I'm not going to go into a long winded discussion about GT here, but I think all the regular posters know how I feel about GT. That opinion has only become stronger after my dedicated study period and after taking the real thing. I must point out that resetting GT after each block and not keeping up with it during the year doesn't really count as using GT. Also, it's not called FA training, so if you don't like having more detail that FA, it's probably not for you. It's called GUNNER training, which implies it will have all the details a "gunner" or someone shooting for a 260+ would be looking for. Again, that's not for everyone.

There are countless other approaches to scoring really well on step 1, so no one thinks GT is the only way to do it. FA and UW is popular here, but I frankly hated FA, even after spending countless hours annotating into it to try to make it better. UW of course is great, but if I didn't have that solid medical knowledge foundation from GT, it would not have been nearly as useful either. Everyone is different though.

I'll stop there, since this is the last weekend I have before I start rotations. I get iCY's complaints (we've seen them here before) and think they add to the discussion on this thread, but I just wanted to provide a contrasting opinion as some one who has taken step 1.

Irkoehle saying that I did not "use" GT to the fullest extent is not really a fair statement. I studied my own way for my 2nd year classes (path, pharm, micro), and I ended up with >90% on each one of those final exams. So when it came to content knowledge for the big subjects, I knew my ****. If you check back in one of my older posts, you'll see that I banked most of the GI organ system(path, and pharm) in 2 days and had it at 65+% mastery (didn't include GI physio) within a few days. I did not need GT to build up that content knowledge because I was able to get it elsewhere from classrooms or qbanks. I also banked GI several WEEKS following my final exam, so trust me when I say that my knowledge was in the "long term" storage pile and the % mastery was not a fluke/would have kept increasing over the next few days.

If I kept it going, I would have banked all the other organ systems at a similar rate, however I chose not to because I did not really need to learn more facts, and it would have taken away from my dedicated study period. The point i'm trying to make is that using GT religiously would not have done me any good, because the end result was the same, i learned the facts I needed to learn.

Anyway my argument is that you are sold on GT because it provided you with the "gunner level" knowledge. But was that level of detail really necessary? I'm sure after you exam, you were probably thinking to yourself "i saw that fact in GT, saw that one also in GT", but how much of it was also in uworld and FA? Actually if I remember your post correctly, you said you got 2-3 extra questions thanks to GT. Do you really recommend someone pound out all the nitty gritty "gunner details" on GT just to score an extra 2-3 questions (out of 300+)?? So GT gave you a 1% boost over your competitors who relied only on FA/uworld??? And how sure are you that someone could not have eliminated answer choices/made an educated guess on those questions and gotten some of them right??

Consideirng how much time I had to spend to bang out the molecular bio portion of GT (which was of NO help on my exam, btw) it would have taken me an extra couple of WEEKS just to get GT at 100% mastery, and for what? an extra 2-3 questions?

Btw I looked up the fact-based questions that I had to GUESS on during my exam (mostly obscure anatomy questions), and they were NOT included in GT. I'm also pretty sure I guessed correctly on half of them after looking them up on google.

Considering people have posted in the 2012 step 1 forum that FA/uworld covers 95% of the exam and enough to get a 260+, I really don't think you need "gunner level" knowledge beyond FA to score a 260. Obviously someone who masters the higher level resource is going to say that it helped him destroy the exam. Hell if I mastered all of cecils medicine before going in for my exam, I would credit it for helping me answer all of my questions too.

Irkoehele I wish you the best with your score and i'm not here to criticize your success with the program. I'm just trying to help those who are on the fence about the program, before they waste massive amounts of time using it and realize that most of the detail they learned from it won't show up on the exam. Its up to them to decide if 2-3 extra questions correct justifies using a study program throughout an entire year.

 

[iCY]

can i just say screw Kaplan Qbank and use ROBBINS Q and A for PATH only and then use uworld down the road?

I used both kaplan Q bank + robbins qbook throughout the year. WHen I ran out of questions on those, sometimes i turned to the rubins, but rubins is generally lower quality. Also robbins is more difficult than kaplan, but kaplan is more representative of step 1.

 

[lrkoehle]

Irkoehle saying that I did not "use" GT to the fullest extent is not really a fair statement. I studied my own way for my 2nd year classes (path, pharm, micro), and I ended up with >90% on each one of those final exams. So when it came to content knowledge for the big subjects, I knew my ****. If you check back in one of my older posts, you'll see that I banked most of the GI organ system(path, and pharm) in 2 days and had it at 65+% mastery (didn't include GI physio) within a few days. I did not need GT to build up that content knowledge because I was able to get it elsewhere from classrooms or qbanks. I also banked GI several WEEKS following my final exam, so trust me when I say that my knowledge was in the "long term" storage pile and the % mastery was not a fluke/would have kept increasing over the next few days.

If I kept it going, I would have banked all the other organ systems at a similar rate, however I chose not to because I did not really need to learn more facts, and it would have taken away from my dedicated study period. The point i'm trying to make is that using GT religiously would not have done me any good, because the end result was the same, i learned the facts I needed to learn.

Anyway my argument is that you are sold on GT because it provided you with the "gunner level" knowledge. But was that level of detail really necessary? I'm sure after you exam, you were probably thinking to yourself "i saw that fact in GT, saw that one also in GT", but how much of it was also in uworld and FA? Actually if I remember your post correctly, you said you got 2-3 extra questions thanks to GT. Do you really recommend someone pound out all the nitty gritty "gunner details" on GT just to score an extra 2-3 questions (out of 300+)?? So GT gave you a 1% boost over your competitors who relied only on FA/uworld??? And how sure are you that someone could not have eliminated answer choices/made an educated guess on those questions and gotten some of them right??

Consideirng how much time I had to spend to bang out the molecular bio portion of GT (which was of NO help on my exam, btw) it would have taken me an extra couple of WEEKS just to get GT at 100% mastery, and for what? an extra 2-3 questions?

Btw I looked up the fact-based questions that I had to GUESS on during my exam (mostly obscure anatomy questions), and they were NOT included in GT. I'm also pretty sure I guessed correctly on half of them after looking them up on google.

Considering people have posted in the 2012 step 1 forum that FA/uworld covers 95% of the exam and enough to get a 260+, I really don't think you need "gunner level" knowledge beyond FA to score a 260. Obviously someone who masters the higher level resource is going to say that it helped him destroy the exam. Hell if I mastered all of cecils medicine before going in for my exam, I would credit it for helping me answer all of my questions too.

Irkoehele I wish you the best with your score and i'm not here to criticize your success with the program. I'm just trying to help those who are on the fence about the program, before they waste massive amounts of time using it and realize that most of the detail they learned from it won't show up on the exam. Its up to them to decide if 2-3 extra questions correct justifies using a study program throughout an entire year.

I never intended to question your knowledge base. You clearly used various qbanks and "studied your own way" throughout second year to get there. As I said in my post, there are countless ways by which one can learn the required material, and GT is just one of those ways but isn't necessarily the right one for everyone. As for it being something that others may "waste massive amounts of time using," I just don't really get that. Spread throughout the day, GT really shouldn't be taking more than 1-2 hours, which should be pretty easy to find before/between lectures, during lunch, during commercials, etc. Of course, if GT isn't for you, then you could spend that same 1-2 hours doing the Robins questions or whatever. As I keep saying, this program is not for everyone and is just one of many tools to help you learn, relearn, review, or retain material.

I don't remember ever saying GT gained me 2-3 questions on the real thing, but if I did, I must not have been being clear. GT gained me a **** load more than 2-3 questions, because it was my main study/review source. Obviously that information is not a GT exclusive, so I definitely could've found it in another source like Pathoma, RR, BRS, FA, UW, etc. Considering I also used some of those resources, I could also attribute my knowing certain concepts/facts to them as well I guess, but GT was my long term study/review source so I give it a lot of the credit. Also, I am very strongly of the opinion, that for me specifically (i.e. it may be different for others out there), if I had tried to use FA as my main source, I would not have retained nearly as much information.

It sucks that GT was lacking on some of the anatomy you saw on your exam, but unfortunately no review source is all inclusive. On my exam and ipizzy's, we both felt the anatomy was at a sufficient depth.

The "gunner" level detail in GT is also beneficial away from step 1 in the small group setting, where I can't just eliminate the answer choices. I figure this will also help on rounds next year when the residents/attendings are having a bad day and decide they want to pimp the medical students...no multiple choice questions there either. Again, as you pointed out, you can get this knowledge from any number of other sources, so this is not a GT exclusive either. Really at the end of the day, getting the facts and concepts we're responsible for knowing into our brains is all that matters, and there are lots of ways that can be done.

I know you're not criticizing me or my use of the program, and I'm not trying to attack you in any way for not liking it. GT is not the right tool for the job for everyone, and I think it is good for people to realize that. We far too often see people come here to SDN or look to upper classmen at their schools to see what they did to get a 260+, and then they think that is the formula for success and then rigidly follow that plan when in reality there is no formula. FA+UW works great for many and might have worked well for me, but I went another direction and felt good about it.

A last thing for those trying to decide if GT is right for them is their school's preclinical curriculum. My school is an integrated, organ based curriculum, so we had neuro fall semester MS-I and then never saw it in detail again. Similarly, we had cardio, pulmonary, and renal spring of MS-I and never saw the physio, path, pharm, histo, anatomy, etc. for those blocks again. That's why I figured a program like GT would be good for me, because I wasn't going to have pathology on this stuff in MS II to allow me to see these topics again; they were done. That meant people in my class struggled with basic stuff, because it had been well over a year since they had seen it, even if they started preparing for step 1 before our dedicated time period.

Anyways, I hope we both killed this thing. Everyone here needs to decide what is right for them, and that may NOT be GT. If this is one of you out there, don't be afraid to try something else. Hell, don't even worry about the money lost. Using a resource that is not right for you that leads to a subpar step 1 score is absolutely not worth a couple hundred bucks. Also, never forget that no resource is a substitute for hard work, which is the real key to success on step 1 and in life. 😎

 

[JackShephard MD]

As has been said many times, there are many ways to win.

You have to realize what your best way to learn is: Reading / doing qbanks / spaced repetition for mastery of material, etc. (often times it's a combination or a recipe, and you decide how much of each you want).

I think both of you have outlined your philosophy of how to do well and both of you likely did very well.👍

Nothing against GT, but I honestly believe that anyone who dedicates the consistent effort that GT requires is going to do very well if they use quality resources/planning. It's the discipline + consistency that will get you the score more than the exact set of resources.

 

[Gunneria]

I agree...i choose GT not for its step 1 questions which it doesnt have ICY but the learning flash card approach and knowledge base it allows me to have....my class notes or the high yield stuff i need to know reflect all of GT to be honest and I dont mind spending an hour and half daily to review the knowledge so i can get it in my comfort zone where i can then rate the item perfect recall and never see it again. At first I thought writing stuff out, drawing things, condensing my notes were a solid approach but I think the endless pounding of GT while understanding the material works better for memory and in a nicer user friendly interface like anki.

I then do agree that for the conceptual non-rote memorization approach of answering questions, qbanks are the way to go. However, for someone like me who didnt too well on the mcat because i found myself having to learn stuff before doing qbanks from examkrackers, barrons review, and kaplan mcat stuff, i like how by the time I start using uworld o kaplan qbanks, my knowledge base will be set. Its a three stage process: acquire knowledge base (gt, dit, etc...), do qbanks, take nbmes. Might be overkill but like i said, i dont mind the daily 1 hour investment to rehash old concepts as long as im not sacrificing the expense of doing robbins q, pathoma, and doing well in path and phafm.

 

[StephenMaturin]

Interesting discussion. Thanks lrkoehle and iCY for coming back to talk about it after your test.

 

[Brotato]

I hate some of these 'wtf' questions on GT. Bannayan-Ruvalcaba-Riley syndrome? Really? I can barely pronounce that.

 

[JackShephard MD]

I hate some of these 'wtf' questions on GT. Bannayan-Ruvalcaba-Riley syndrome? Really? I can barely pronounce that.

Had to check out of curiosity... Bannayan-Ruvalcaba-Riley syndrome, not in FA, Pathoma, or RR path. Not sure about UWorld though. I'm considering buying a 1-year Uworld subscription right now, wonder if it's in there.

 

[GTP]

Thanks for your feedback icy. I hope your exam went well. I'll still likely stick with gt because at the rate I'm banking now, I'll only need to bank 3 cards daily during school. This should be doable in between classes, boring 2-3 hr long clicker sessions, and lunch time. Thanks again

 

[Brotato]

Thanks for your feedback icy. I hope your exam went well. I'll still likely stick with gt because at the rate I'm banking now, I'll only need to bank 3 cards daily during school. This should be doable in between classes, boring 2-3 hr long clicker sessions, and lunch time. Thanks again

GTP are you also planning on doing a qbank during the school year or just rolling with GT?

 

[GTP]

I'm definitely doing Kaplan because we get that for free at my school. I'm still deciding whether or not I can handle rx at the same time. There is no reset feature, and it's not cheap. Kaplan for sure. Do u have any thoughts about rx?

 

[JackShephard MD]

I'm definitely doing Kaplan because we get that for free at my school. I'm still deciding whether or not I can handle rx at the same time. There is no reset feature, and it's not cheap. Kaplan for sure. Do u have any thoughts about rx?

FYI, that's not 100% true.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

was gonna do GT for step 2 but decided against it. Damn 3rd year is bz