Hackensack New Jersey

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dizzy21

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www.nj.com

I was blacklisted by N.J. healthcare network after I resigned, doctor says in lawsuit

The pediatric anesthesiologist says healthcare company officials fabricated evidence and submitted misleading information about him to a national doctors' database.
www.nj.com www.nj.com

Paywalled, but you can get the general meaning. I’ve known several people who have quit from there as well. Not sure why a place would bother spending time chasing after staff who have already left.
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dizzy21 said:
www.nj.com

I was blacklisted by N.J. healthcare network after I resigned, doctor says in lawsuit

The pediatric anesthesiologist says healthcare company officials fabricated evidence and submitted misleading information about him to a national doctors' database.
www.nj.com www.nj.com

Paywalled, but you can get the general meaning. I’ve known several people who have quit from there as well. Not sure why a place would bother spending time chasing after staff who have already left.
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If I place wants you out. They will get u out

Just like trump Manhattan tax conviction

Any over zealous administrator can comb through all ur charts and find something wrong.

He’s guilty (the peds) anesthesia doc of something. Even a minor error in documentation is grounds to get rid of you.
 
There is always more to the story. There are some anesthesiologists who do occasionally behave badly.
 
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NICMAN said:
There is always more to the story. There are some anesthesiologists who do occasionally behave badly.
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99% of the time it's a problem doc. They just then need to find the technicality needed to fire them.

Nobody fires the rockstars
 
People who are actually terrible are usually let go verrrrry quietly, not blackballed. But yes this doctor could have been terrible.
 
UscGhost said:
99% of the time it's a problem doc. They just then need to find the technicality needed to fire them.

Nobody fires the rockstars
Click to expand...


Sometimes clinical rockstars are “troublemakers” or perceived as troublemakers.
 
Yeah, I suspect there is far more to this story than the plaintiff’s allegations. It likely won’t be revealed until it is litigated. The doc will publicly play all of their cards in an attempt to get a settlement. The healthcare entity will not reveal their cards publicly until trial. The doc should hope they have a good case because, if they weren’t blacklisted before, they likely will be now, largely by their own litigious actions. The settlement would need to be enough to carry them into retirement for this to be considered a really good move, IMO.
 
Know people who left from there because it's a lot of work with elective cases constantly going through the night and the pay doesn't reflect that despite a high signing bonus.
 
nimbus said:
Sometimes clinical rockstars are “troublemakers” or perceived as troublemakers.
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I suppose.

But in my experience with the true problem physicians. Its usually years of issues and problems before it's documented enough so that the physician gets handed some significant consequences. Most people don't document the issues when they actually happen.

Then the doc threatens lawsuits, "I am being targeted", while he's being investigated. Most docs at that point will end up resigning out of embarrassment or they see the writing on the wall and leave.

A few will fight it all the way and generally lose or "settle" and leave.

I have yet to encounter an excellent well regarded physician being let go for no legit reason.

Although I did encounter a situation where a surgeon was apparently targeted by the admin because he/she was actively speaking out against staff cuts, etc.

But it's the minority of cases
 
hackensack is probably not a state entity

Most of the docs I know who get “fired” get a golden package cause states don’t want to fight against allegations. They don’t get fired. They just resign and the state just pays them out the remainder of their annual contract. So if it happens in July. One got a 650k payment. Another just got 220k for the last 4 months of the fiscal year (ends June 30) for most state places. Even crnas are paid out! So it’s not just the docs. And they get to keep their sign on bonus. They don’t have to mark “did you resign under duress either”

But private places are tighter with their money so will fight you to the end.
 
aneftp said:
If I place wants you out. They will get u out

Just like trump Manhattan tax conviction

Any over zealous administrator can comb through all ur charts and find something wrong.

He’s guilty (the peds) anesthesia doc of something. Even a minor error in documentation is grounds to get rid of you.
Click to expand...
Yeah I mean, who hasn't paid off a pornstar to hide their affair, then made it look like a business expense to make it a tax deduction. Apparently everyone does that sort of thing? I mean if you arent taking a deduction on your pornstar payoffs what are you even doing?

You can comb through charts and maybe find the anesthesia and circulator marked different times for the timeout, but that's hardly a fireable offense.
 
ASA6 said:
Yeah I mean, who hasn't paid off a pornstar to hide their affair, then made it look like a business expense to make it a tax deduction. Apparently everyone does that sort of thing? I mean if you arent taking a deduction on your pornstar payoffs what are you even doing?

You can comb through charts and maybe find the anesthesia and circulator marked different times for the timeout, but that's hardly a fireable offense.
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No

I’ve seen anesthesia chart audits that the provider changed (electronic) meds what time it was given

Like a code situation. Where you get behind in meds given in real time and the auditors (for peer review/lawsuits) question why you gave epi at 1300. And than changed it to 1240. To match a very low bp

That’s the witch hunt I’m talking about.
 
aneftp said:
If I place wants you out. They will get u out

Just like trump Manhattan tax conviction

Any over zealous administrator can comb through all ur charts and find something wrong.

He’s guilty (the peds) anesthesia doc of something. Even a minor error in documentation is grounds to get rid of you.
Click to expand...

Documentation errors are not grounds for NPDB reporting. Envision also cannot report you to NPDB neither can your department chair. NPDB reporting has strict standards and must be initiated by the hospital - ie due to involuntary relinquishing of privileges for example (ie unethical behavior, drinking on the job, etc.). Let's just say I know for a fact that very few people from the hospital have ever been reported and there are many rumors that are untrue about the practice. As far as Envision and blacklisting that is indeed very true.
 
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aneftp said:
No

I’ve seen anesthesia chart audits that the provider changed (electronic) meds what time it was given

Like a code situation. Where you get behind in meds given in real time and the auditors (for peer review/lawsuits) question why you gave epi at 1300. And than changed it to 1240. To match a very low bp

That’s the witch hunt I’m talking about.
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That's not a witch hunt.
They question everything in peer review and lawsuits.

Stop clutching your pearls so tight
 
UscGhost said:
That's not a witch hunt.
They question everything in peer review and lawsuits.

Stop clutching your pearls so tight
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You haven't practice enough in many diverse environments. Or have a huge network to discuss

If they want you gone you will be gone. I’ve seen long time faculty slowly pushed out this way.

People know when they are being targeted.

Or you practice in places that let things slide. Like a doc doing two wrong sided blocks in a 6 month period and it not getting reported. Yes there are places like that as well. Because the upper level guys protect that doc because he’s the workhorse for them
 
Here is an old thread regarding how bad the practice in Hackensack is 😳

D

Thread 'Hackensack University-Envision or Private Practice'

Hi All,
Looking at jobs in Northern NJ and found these two listings. Looks like both are at Hackensack, but one is for Envision and the other seems to be a private practice or hospital group. Does anyone have insight into the practice there? Is Envision being forced out or are there two groups practicing there simultaneously similar to NAPA and NSLIJ? Is there a chance the group is being brought in house by the hospital?

Thanks in advance!

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550-700k ad means nothing (for newbies) who read these message boards

Sign me up when it’s 700k/40 hrs. $350/hr after 40 hours a week with 10 weeks off.

I’ve always said it. This is the real market rate if you keep getting turnover and want to recruit.

New Jersey has township taxes 3-4%? Plus state income taxes? 5-6%? Like 9-10% state incomes taxes plus 2.5% property taxes (of real value of ur home)

I might as well live in California with better weather if I’m paying that much in taxes.
 
aneftp said:
550-700k ad means nothing (for newbies) who read these message boards

Sign me up when it’s 700k/40 hrs. $350/hr after 40 hours a week with 10 weeks off.

I’ve always said it. This is the real market rate if you keep getting turnover and want to recruit.

New Jersey has township taxes 3-4%? Plus state income taxes? 5-6%? Like 9-10% state incomes taxes plus 2.5% property taxes (of real value of ur home)

I might as well live in California with better weather if I’m paying that much in taxes.
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I doubt those salary numbers are available in Northeast NJ.
 
Dr. Rude said:
I doubt those salary numbers are available in Northeast NJ.
Click to expand...

They're not. At least not for a new grad unless you have connections to a unicorn job. The $600k is there, but not at 40h/week and with 6-8 weeks off (instead of 10).
 
somedudehere said:
They're not. At least not for a new grad unless you have connections to a unicorn job. The $600k is there, but not at 40h/week and with 6-8 weeks off (instead of 10).
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I will not take any w2 job on salary without assurances of overtime or massive weeks off.

I think the east coast/west coast mentality of working like this year after year (believe it. I lived it also up north working to 8pm-9pm consistently when I was a new grad). The reward was to go home early by 1-2pm the next day. Just better to be on call for another 10-12 hours and get another day off post call.

Time off is so key for me these days as well. I can’t believe people are dealing with 8 weeks off at that pace as well.

As large has nyc metro area is. People should try to get credentials at 7-10 places and do a patch network of 1099 gigs

My friend does that in wash dc area (also working similar to the w2 Hackensack docs at her previous job) She quit her w2 job. It was gradual. She went 0.5 fte. Than quit altogether as she got more comfortable. She generally drives around a 60 min radius in the dc area. She made 700k 1099 with 13 weeks off and no calls or weekends and more importantly no stress.

I do understand the fear of the unknown with 1099 work and how unstable it is. I get it. People like routine work. Like to work in familiar environments. But if you are miserable. You gotta seek change.

So maybe try to go part time first. Get the hang and knowledge of 1099 work than quit altogether.

Worst case just drive to upstate New York or Pennsylvania where there is endless 1099 locums work.
 
Last edited:
somedudehere said:
Current CA3 in the area. Every. Single. Doctor. that I have ever asked that has experience with Hackensack (main campus) have ALL said that the place is an absolute dumpster fire. Have never heard one good thing about this place.
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Can confirm this.

Also HRM system is extremely strict on ANY drug errors. They will hang you out to dry if your Pyxis med drawn doesn’t match OR record.

The Pyxis system is omnicell, they use to not be linked between OR which would create a lot of confusion and easy to mistake wasting versus not wasted.
 
nimbus said:
Sometimes clinical rockstars are “troublemakers” or perceived as troublemakers.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Or sometimes someone in admin has a personal beef with a doctor, or they want to make space for a family member or friend who is looking for a job, or the doc is noticing some sketchy/illegal stuff admin is doing and speaking up about it.

Lots of ways this can play out. It’s not always docs that suck that get fired like this.
 
aneftp said:
I will not take any w2 job on salary without assurances of overtime or massive weeks off.

I think the east coast/west coast mentality of working like this year after year (believe it. I lived it also up north working to 8pm-9pm consistently when I was a new grad). The reward was to go home early by 1-2pm the next day. Just better to be on call for another 10-12 hours and get another day off post call.

Time off is so key for me these days as well. I can’t believe people are dealing with 8 weeks off at that pace as well.

As large has nyc metro area is. People should try to get credentials at 7-10 places and do a patch network of 1099 gigs

My friend does that in wash dc area (also working similar to the w2 Hackensack docs at her previous job) She quit her w2 job. It was gradual. She went 0.5 fte. Than quit altogether as she got more comfortable. She generally drives around a 60 min radius in the dc area. She made 700k 1099 with 13 weeks off and no calls or weekends and more importantly no stress.

I do understand the fear of the unknown with 1099 work and how unstable it is. I get it. People like routine work. Like to work in familiar environments. But if you are miserable. You gotta seek change.

So maybe try to go part time first. Get the hang and knowledge of 1099 work than quit altogether.

Worst case just drive to upstate New York or Pennsylvania where there is endless 1099 locums work.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this. I have spent the last few years working for the major AMCs doing a regular 40-50 hour a week, 8 week vaca type of job. I recently started doing some locums work and it is night and day. Better money, more flexibility, get treated better at the locums job, no BS scut and administrative work. They also can’t change things up on you and force you to just comply. These AMCs need to change their approach
 
NicholasPavona said:
Mr. Dumb
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I wouldn’t call them dumb. Just uninformed

As soon as the north and west get a hold of what we are doing in Florida (and some other areas of the country). The w2 weeks with lots of time off and let the docs who only want to do days do days.

It’s the perfect blend to keep w2 staff happy.

Throw in some incentive weekend days time hourly work for regular staff even at a token $300/hr before the night float docs take over. Literally cost the hospital less than 250k entire year to get 52 weeks of weekend day coverage spread between 10 MD.

Throwing the day staff that little money actually works. People like extra money! Even at $300-hr w2 on weekends. Docs will still get off early to enjoy the rest their weekend. And it isn’t mandatory cause some is always gonna to take those w2 extra shifts. Even on holiday weekends.
 
Camden NJ in south new jersey is a crap show also. But u can make pretty good 1099 money down there.

That’s 2 hr drive from northern nj

So go part time in Hackensack for stable income and do 1099
The rest.
 
aneftp said:
Camden NJ in south new jersey is a crap show also. But u can make pretty good 1099 money down there.

That’s 2 hr drive from northern nj

So go part time in Hackensack for stable income and do 1099
The rest.
Click to expand...
Cooper Hospital is bad ?
 
aneftp said:
Camden NJ in south new jersey is a crap show also. But u can make pretty good 1099 money down there.

That’s 2 hr drive from northern nj

So go part time in Hackensack for stable income and do 1099
The rest.
Click to expand...

Money ain't no use if you're dead
 
GassYous said:
Money ain't no use if you're dead
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Correct. And I 100% agree.

I honestly don’t work as hard as it appears.

I maximize my income for the workload. Work smarter. Not harder is the old saying

So there is a difference between killing urself 5 days a week/6 days if weekend calls daily grind with 8-9 weeks off for 500-700k w2 vs doing what I’m doing.

Like i’m scheduled for 0 (as in zero) days for the entire month of February and still collecting a 40k paycheck guaranteed monthly w2. I have 30 weeks off. Maybe 32 weeks. I dunno. I stopped the calculations.

I’m working 4 daytime days (3
Of them just 8 hrs and one 12 hrs) so I’d be home for for the kids when they are school and take 4 weeknight calls 1099 at my various side gigs (im not even doing 24 hr calls either) for another 35k this month 1099. So combined 75k in income for 8 days of work! And zero weekends. I could kick it up a notch and do weekends as well. Weekends are the kill shots up to 30k per weekend. So I’m pacing myself for now.

I made 110k last month with 2 weeks off in January with one full weekend of work and the other weekends off.

Explore the hybrid w2 jobs with lots of time off or demand it if ur current place is consistently short staff. It’s max flexibility. What we are all looking for especially those with families.
 
NicholasPavona said:
Cooper Hospital is good it's just that it's in a war zone. Camden is routinely #1 on the annual murder list.
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It’s some catholic hospital in Camden. Not cooper. Lady of something place
 
aneftp said:
Camden NJ in south new jersey is a crap show also. But u can make pretty good 1099 money down there.

That’s 2 hr drive from northern nj

So go part time in Hackensack for stable income and do 1099
The rest.
Click to expand...

much better 1099 in Jersey than Cooper or Lourdes.
ToKingdomCome said:
Our lady of Lourdes
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Lourdes is super busy and level 1 - liver transplants, hearts you name it they do it. Not a bad hospital, but it’s in Camden which is pretty terrible part of Jersey.
 
jthedestroyr said:
much better 1099 in Jersey than Cooper or Lourdes.

Lourdes is super busy and level 1 - liver transplants, hearts you name it they do it. Not a bad hospital, but it’s in Camden which is pretty terrible part of Jersey.
Click to expand...
I work with so many docs. So Hackensack is better than Lourdes? Than why are people complaining?
 
ToKingdomCome said:
Lourdes is bad because Camden. Not the group itself
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Agree. Lourdes isn’t a bad hospital system by any means. I have sent many transfers there when I was at a shore hospital that needed tertiary care.

I’m part of HMH now, while I don’t go to Hackensack, we hear the stories.
 
aneftp said:
Correct. And I 100% agree.

I honestly don’t work as hard as it appears.

I maximize my income for the workload. Work smarter. Not harder is the old saying

So there is a difference between killing urself 5 days a week/6 days if weekend calls daily grind with 8-9 weeks off for 500-700k w2 vs doing what I’m doing.

Like i’m scheduled for 0 (as in zero) days for the entire month of February and still collecting a 40k paycheck guaranteed monthly w2. I have 30 weeks off. Maybe 32 weeks. I dunno. I stopped the calculations.

I’m working 4 daytime days (3
Of them just 8 hrs and one 12 hrs) so I’d be home for for the kids when they are school and take 4 weeknight calls 1099 at my various side gigs (im not even doing 24 hr calls either) for another 35k this month 1099. So combined 75k in income for 8 days of work! And zero weekends. I could kick it up a notch and do weekends as well. Weekends are the kill shots up to 30k per weekend. So I’m pacing myself for now.

I made 110k last month with 2 weeks off in January with one full weekend of work and the other weekends off.

Explore the hybrid w2 jobs with lots of time off or demand it if ur current place is consistently short staff. It’s max flexibility. What we are all looking for especially those with families.
Click to expand...
Not all places offer this flexibility.
 
AKMD_1984 said:
Not all places offer this flexibility.
Click to expand...
Agree. If you live in a large metro place. You can do a patch work of jobs as well. But some docs like consistency and familiarity of one place as well.

But to be honest. If you can’t for anything better than 450-500k/8 weeks off plus calls w2 45 hrs a week….you are better off just doing locums for w2 prn and dictating your own schedule and time off. You can easily arrive at the same numbers without calls.
 
aneftp said:
Agree. If you live in a large metro place. You can do a patch work of jobs as well. But some docs like consistency and familiarity of one place as well.

But to be honest. If you can’t for anything better than 450-500k/8 weeks off plus calls w2 45 hrs a week….you are better off just doing locums for w2 prn and dictating your own schedule and time off. You can easily arrive at the same numbers without calls.
Click to expand...
450-500K is the low bar and pretty standard ? Thought this group was saying minimum 550-600K with 10 weeks off
 
ToKingdomCome said:
450-500K is the low bar and pretty standard ? Thought this group was saying minimum 550-600K with 10 weeks off
Click to expand...

I think aneftp has mentioned that number or higher for a full time, call taking position. 450-500K with control of your schedule and no call is reasonable and also easily doable.
 
ToKingdomCome said:
450-500K is the low bar and pretty standard ? Thought this group was saying minimum 550-600K with 10 weeks off
Click to expand...
450-500k for roughly 40-45 hrs of work.

Once you get to the 550-600k w2 your w2 call burden increases. Meaning more hours.

It’s all varies.

Hint. If a place has low turnover. The staff is happy. If the place has high turnover. The staff is not happy.

Pretty simple explanation. The beauty of the capital markets working.

My other home boys employed by super large AMC people love to hate on these message board. Yet zero turnover in 6 years. 500k/20 weeks off. 35 hours a week worked including beeper week night float starts at 5pm (usually work to 8-10pm). U get crnas on weeknights and weekends till 7-10pm.

Keep ur staff happy. Reasonable hours. Whoa….no one wants to leave. Imagine that.

So you don’t need to pay a lot as employer. Work load matters and time off.

Vs a similar facility I cover as 1099. Almost same exact setup. And they pay 575k/9 weeks off. No ob no trauma no peds. Also run by a very large amc. Actually the same exact amc. lol

And they have 100% turnover. It’s cash cow for me.
Why?
While they give u crnas to 7pm. The weekends suck. All MD solo to 9-10pm. Vs the other place where you have crna even on weekends most of the day. Plus double the vacation.

So even within the same AMC system and similar hospitals. Practices are run differently
These hospitals are 60 min apart. And I’m telling the admin this is how it should be run even if it means the end of my locums cash cow. Because I have way too much work these days. I just pick and choose
 
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